Guild Wars 2

Can someone knowledgeable with Norn/Asura lore/story explain to me why you have SoS/Inquest merrily hanging about in the capitol cities?

Just a minute run away from the capitol cities, the SoS are butchering merchants, being disruptive by putting up roadblocks, terrorizing the local populace, etc. etc.

Same with the inquest, except they’re a portal away.

So why do they have dedicated recruiting stations in the capitols? It just seems strange to me.

Given that we now had a rapport going, I wanted to bring up my controversial take on the Sons of Svanir, where I likened them to a real-world, hate group. Grubb did not exactly say I was wrong, but he brought up a much tighter real-world example. One of the best Earth-human events where we might embody some of the norn virtues happens in Sturgis, South Dakota. The sleepy town of 6,000 bursts a hundred-fold every year at the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally when all the free-spirited motorcycle enthusiasts gather for what is basically a contemporary moot. Yet, also attending are the so-called outlaw motorcycle clubs, specifically the 1-percenters. These clubs are not well liked for the bad image they bring to all motorcycle clubs, but they are generally tolerated at the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally as long as they are not disruptive to others. The Sons of Svanir are very similar, and as long as they embody norn virtues, they are accepted in to Hoelbrak and moots. It’s when they lose those norn virtues, and set on the path to becoming Icebrood, that their legend as norn as ended, and they become foe.

http://www.killtenrats.com/2011/03/18/gw2-pax-chat-with-jeff-grubb/

to continue on dustfinger’s citation that covers a good part.
Norn are Norn, They have no Army, they fight for the hunt, for the glory and for the prey (loosly taken from gw1). The Norn don’t believe in good and evil. The tooth of Jormag in the main lodge is proof they still only see Jormag as prey. The dont judge good and evil as we humans do.

The same goes for Asura. Gadd is still aknowledged as a very wise and skillfull asura. Eventhough to our standards he did terrible things. The Inquest might have chosen scientifical paths that other Asuran’s don’t want to go, but they are still scientists. So they are no real outcasts out of community

It has to do with Norn culture. The Norn believe in personal freedom—basically “Live however you please, and I won’t interfere, as long as you don’t interfere with me”. So the Sons of Svanir are free in Holbrak as long as they don’t interfere with the other citizens. They’re free to air their viewpoints and beliefs as long as they don’t force anybody to join them, or start fights. What happens outside of Holbrak doesn’t matter—that’s for the people involved to resolve between themselves. To come inside Holbrak, everybody is expected to put their personal biases and battles aside. It’s neutral ground. If the rest of the Norn refused entry to the Sons, they would be denying the Sons their personal freedom. Furthermore, they would be putting all of Holbrak in danger, because the Sons would probably launch an attack in retaliation. Lastly, the Sons bring trade to Holbrak and create commerce.

I don’t know as much about the Asura, but my impression is that the Inquest isn’t much different from the main part of Asuran society. Their values are pretty much the same—the Inquest are just willing to go a little bit further for personal gain. As a result, the Inquest are a normal and accepted part of Asuran society and government. Conflict between Asuran Krewes, and sabotage or assassination attempts, seem to be a normal and expected part of Asuran culture—so fights against the Inquest probably aren’t as shocking to the Asura as they would be to you or I.

My impression from storyline quests and quests in asura territory indicate the inquest’s more questionable methods are reminiscent of the underside of politics in the US.

Everyone with a brain knows what is going on, but they maintain credibility by pretending it does not exist and carefully marginalize those who call out what is actually going on because there are some who believe the ends justify the means.

so..

You still have no competition for broadband in most of the us.
Too big to fail banks are still around soaking the middle class and working poor for bailouts.
and the Inquest are still there doing experiments on living sentient beings.

mercury ranique.2170:

The Norn don’t believe in good and evil. The tooth of Jormag in the main lodge is proof they still only see Jormag as prey. The dont judge good and evil as we humans do.

Wrong, wrong, wrooong. Norns very much “believe” in good and evil on a personal and individual level. Just chat up any random Norn NPC and they’ll most likely voice their disgust of those evil Sons of Svanir.

The difference lies in that as a society they don’t take any official action against the Sons. Most of the the NPCs that send you out to kill Sons are doing so based on a personal grudge they’re holding; not because they’re in some position of authority/power that demands that the Sons be punished.

That’s why the Sons are welcomed to Hoelbrak if they leave their wicked ways at the door, much to the dislike of some of the other Norns living there.

Also, a Norn who is well known as a highwayman, robbing travelers would still be welcome because he is well known and his legend of banditry is a virtue that the norn embrace. So butchering merchants and roadblocks is acceptable to norn.

I asked about Grimhilde in the official ArenaNet blog article, A Spirit of Legend, with regard to these virtues. The story contained in the article is about what humans would consider an evil or bad-hearted norn (Grimhilde) and an up-and-coming norn bent on revenge against her. Specifically, I asked Grubb on how norn thought of infamy. He paused for a minute because it wasn’t necessarily the right question to ask. Norn don’t really have infamy, which signifies ill-gotten or unwanted fame. Rather their virtue is legend. In A Spirit of Legend, Grimhilde had a legend by other norn. It didn’t matter that her legend was based on “evil” deeds because as far as the other norn cared, she was embodying norn virtues.

The Sons are a bit different than your run of the mill outlaw though. They’ve willingly allied with a being that is essentially the Joker to the Norn’s Batman. Even if we don’t see much of it in-game right now, eventually they will probably force the Norns to band together and form some sort of force to deal with them. Times are changing for the Norns.

Or Trahearne simply kills Jormag in single combat before that can happen. In which cause…. lol.

The Sons of Svanir, from a norn perspective, have a valid arguement on following Dragon. They argue that he is a Spirit, the ultimate predator. While alot of Norn disagree with the Sons and that Dragon is a spirit, they respect the Sons treat him as one. Its a very norn thing to do. After all the Spirits of the Wild are wild.

For the inquest, I think its best to think of Asura society as made up of lots of little corperations. The inquest is kind of a mega corperation and worse, they have influence on the Arcane Council. Between that influence and propganda they are able to downplay their negative activities to the bulk of Asura.

After all sabotage and theft between krewes is far from unheard of and the Inquest can certainly argue that others are stealing their research too.

In both cases, you cant think of their societies as the same as a human society. It operates in a different fashion.

There was already a now fairly old thread about this. You can sum it down to these two things:

1. Norn on a whole do not judge based on groups of affiliation. You may say you’re a Son of Svanir, but to most (read: not all) norn, that doesn’t mean jack squat. Not until you start killing, maiming, and corrupting. Basically, as long as you don’t cause trouble, most norn – especially in Hoelbrak – you’ll be welcomed.

If you need an example – think of the USA’s first amendment: freedom of speech. By law, you’re allowed to say whatever you want and though individuals might get kitten and provoked, to those in power they won’t legally do anything against you until you start acting on what you say (though you’ll be watched with just words anyways, much like how the Wolfborn watch the Sons in Hoelbrak).

2. The Arcane Council are, for lack of a better word, corrupt. They want progress and innovation and most importantly asuran dominance – and the Inquest supplies that. If other groups provide the same results with less casualties (such as the MIG from Dynamics storyline), then the Arcane Council will hold no issues with going with that “other group” whomever they may be. Because the Inquest produce results, the Arcane Council has decreed them legal in Rata Sum and neighboring areas – and they turn a blind eye to those who claim the Inquest stole from them.