Guild Wars 2

So, I’ve been trying to find maps or any indication that this place was present during GW1 days, but seems not. The books don’t have anything on it (perhaps the third will, but can’t know yet). And I wasn’t present during the start of the event back in november nor got to talk to NPC’s and such.

So my question is, where did it come from? Was there some explanation to this from an interview or something?

By all the wreckings around I guess it could have been raised from the depths as was Orr, when Zhaitan awoke, but doesn’t make too much sense.

This was discussed a lot during The Lost Shores content. The conclusion was that the most likely explanation is that the island is new. If you go there, you’ll find it’s volcanic – in the center you’ll find a lot of geysers indicating a lot of underground volcanic activity; the eastern side of the islands are all volcanic rock or that karka-made “webbing” (for lack of a better description) which they build their nests and shells out of. You’ll also find that in the cave, the ground is only a few feet before it reaches lava.

When it formed is unknown, but the reason it wasn’t on the map before Lost Shores would likely be due to the Risen’s activities in the Sea of Sorrows preventing exploration – keep in mind that during The Lost Shores, the plot was that it was being explored and investigated by the Consortium; something old wouldn’t be needing such so it likely formed over the last 100 years (since Zhaitan’s rise).

I see, thanks for clarifying that for me. Went to take a walk around there for the first time since the invasion and noticed all that. Also noticed some recent graves behind Owain’s Refuge, from the crew of S.S. Prospect, been intrigued by that, but no answers anywhere I could find. The ship there looks pretty new, I guess they where from there. Probably died during the rise of Southsun Cove since it looks like it was cleaved from below. I’m guessing it is a fairly new island. I do hope there’s more answers in the next days.

If you do Owain’s DE she explains what happened to her. She is the last survivor of a survey ship sent by the Consortium to assess resources on the Island. She got trapped on the island surrounded by the Karka and watched all her friends die. Those are probably the graves of her former crewmates.

Loneliness and greef caused her to snap. Poor girl seems so far gone that she doesnt even realise she has a way off the island now.

The plant life and non-karka wildlife indicate that Southsun couldn’t have appeared too recently, so it is likely that something was there before the karka arrived. There are signs that the karka may have enlarged the islands on arriving, though – they probably figured that going entirely terrestrial would keep the DSD away from them.

I don’t think we ever had an official explanation, though. Personally, I think they possibly should have placed it south of Orr and extended the map a little to allow that rather than landing is smack bang in the middle of the Sea of Sorrows, but that may have gone against their plans for the DSD.

The eastern island – especially Pearl Inlet – seems to be somewhat older. Maybe Owain’s Refuge too, but the main island’s western part is fully new (from the geysers on, except possibly Owain’s little island). So basically 2/3 small islands got turned into 2 large adjacent islands thanks to volcanic and karka activity.

Comparing to the Prophecies map, the very oldest part may be the western edge – there is an island on the Prophecies map in roughly the right place. Everything between there and the coast of Sparkfly Fen proper has arisen since Prophecies – yes, this includes the island on the western part of the Sparkfly map and the southwestern corner of Bloodtide.

Pearl islet and the Dappled Shored have clearly been there long enough to be colonised by plants and flying or amphibious animal life (using ‘amphibious’ here in the military sense rather than the taxonomical sense). The sections of the western island that harbour plant life have also probably been there for at least a couple of years.

There is, incidentally, one factor of Southsun’s presence that I don’t think I’ve seen commented on: There is, now, only three navigable channels connecting the Sea of Sorrows to the Straits of Malchor – through either side of Southsun or through Sparkfly Fen (and I’m not convinced about the last). The Sea of Sorrows is at risk of functionally becoming an inland sea, and even if it doesn’t I could definitely see future deep-sea vessels preferring to dock at Southsun, Rata Sum or even Orr rather than trying to get past Southsun to Lion’s Arch.

That is an interesting point to bring up, and very true. The Sea of Sorrows is even potentially going to become a large lake, rather than simply an inland sea, since the Southsun Cove really reduced the size – after the size was reduced by the island increase via Orr’s rising (however that works).

I can easily see The Grove, Rata Sum, or renewed Orr being turned into a new primary port city of Tyria. I suspect Orr to be the most likely, with Lion’s Arch’s territory (aka “united nations” Tyria version) extending from southern Gendarran Fields to Orr. Reason I go with LA taking over Orr is because of the whole multi-racial and neutrality aspects of it – if Orr becomes the main port, they seem like the best candidates to “receive” Orr. Unless Trahearne just claims it for the Pact (for research as well as a primary HQ base since Fort Trinity was just an assault base).

I have questions about Orr ending up as a ‘united nations’ thing – it is the holy city of humanity, after all, even if the entire Pact played a part in its liberation. While due to gratitude it’s not going to be closed to other races, I’d expect it to be mostly populated by humans (probably followed by sylvari participating in the restoration) and at some stage they’re probably going to want it to be recognised as a place for the followers of the gods. Gratitude only goes so far, after all, and if the Pact’s first target had been different I don’t think the asura would put up with a multiracial government being put in control of Quora Sum, or the norn having a multiracial government over the Far Shiverpeaks. Orr is an ancient place of humanity – while Pact administration would serve as a temporary regent, if the long-term plans don’t involve turning it over to human administration, that’s probably going to lead to unrest in the long term. Consider how many disputes have centred on Jerusalem, and then imagine how Islamist people might react to a suggestion that Mecca be placed under UN administration.

At least in the medium term, I could see Rata Sum being the primary port – it already has the infrastructure. Shipping costs from Rata Sum to Lion’s Arch are probably not going to be much higher than from Orr to Lion’s Arch, and the asura are likely smart enough to price gate travel from Rata Sum to Lion’s Arch low enough to give themselves a major competitive advantage.

Well, with Quora Sum or the Far Shiverpeaks – the Pact wouldn’t hold as much strategic positioning in those places. There’s no benefit to making those areas multi-racial or permanently holding the placement except to continue exterminating remnant dragon minions.

Orr, however, is a prime port location, a good place to set off to fight the Deep Sea Dragon, or any other threats – even to sail to the western coast to get a pincer attack on Mordremoth should it wake in the Maguuma, or be a good place to launch an assault on Joko or Cantha should the need arise.

That’s because, with the human focus of Guild Wars 1, we don’t know what strategic positioning those other locations might turn out to have. The Far Shiverpeaks may end up being the gateway to something else further north, and Quora Sum might turn out to be under some other location of interest to the Pact.

From a public relations standpoint… Arah is the holy city of humanity, and of the five playable races, it’s humans that take their religion most seriously. The treaty that’s effectively resigning Ascalon to the charr is proving unpopular enough – I can’t see a long-term solution that involves handing over control of Arah to asura and charr going down well in certain circles (and that’s how some humans are going to see it).

While Jennah hasn’t appeared in the story since the formation of the Pact, what we do see of her suggests that she’s behind it securely enough that making Orr formally part of her domain would, from the perspective of being a strategic location, be equivalent to the Pact controlling it – she’s not likely to restrict Pact access to Orr or prevent them from maintaining facilities on the continent. Spun correctly, however, turning it over to humans could serve to soften the blow of giving up Ascalon, while denying it will likely lead some humans to feel like they’re getting the short end of the stick at every turn.

The trick would, of course, be to find a way to ensure that the Ministry doesn’t get its fingers on it – but that could be achieved by establishing that the system of government of Orr is entirely separate from Kryta, even if the monarch of both happens to be the same person. Given that one of the Reapers can be contacted from the Cathedral of Silence, one could even set up a true system of rulership by divine mandate.

The Pact’s primary focus is the Elder Dragons. Once you take out Jormag there’s nothing of direct interest to the Pact. Once you take out Primordus, unless there’s passages to Elona, there’s nothing of direct interest to the Pact there either.

Though I’m still on the notion that it’ll be remade into a “free country” – one with no racial ties, despite its historical relevency. Keep in mind that modern Orrians shun their heritage nowadays (though there’s one in the Priory that isn’t such), and Orr is viewed as little but a dark place. Such connotations are hard to remove after being around for multiple generations. Many of Krytan humans probably wouldn’t want Orr just simply due to all the necromantic relations it has. Not to mention that the Pact would probably spend quite some time quarantining it to ensure that all Risen get wiped out and the corruption’s gone before letting it be resettled.

Honestly, I doubt the Pact will take the full nation for itself – rather, it’ll likely just make a new fort somewhere akin to Fort Trinity for when they go after the deep sea dragon.

Still, historical relevance to the humans only goes so far. Your theory would only hold if Jennah wants Orr to become human land. Given her pro-peace with the charr status, which itself is an indication of “we don’t need Ascalon as human territory” regardless of the outcome, I wouldn’t doubt that she wouldn’t view a similar way to Orr.

Maybe the various priesthoods of the gods would want to move in, and turn Orr’s borders (aka where the temples are) into religious pilgrimage locations – but other than that, I don’t see any real human interest in Orr simply due to all the kitten that’s happened there in the past 250 years.

It’d be like someone wanting to go where a nuke got set off simply because his ancestors lived there for generations. A lot of people don’t really care about that kind of stuff – and those that do are often sufficed with simply knowing of what their ancestors did.

I don’t think anyone would be interested in Orr territory as of now; the contaminated water, terrain, and lack of resources or wildlife make it a difficult place to live at and from it. If we take Ascalon as example, it will take houndreads of years before it is restored to anything like that, if it ever does.

I somehow think that a magical process like the one Trahearne started will take less than a few hundred years to start making the terrain more liveable. I personally think that more and more humans will start making pilgrimages to Orr/Arah once the clean-up process is more complete and you can be guaranteed a moderate level of safety. I mean look to what extents people will go to just view their history/religion/ancestory. I do not know that it will become a human kingdom, but if it does become a multi-racial site it will most definitely have a large human presence protecting the cathedrals and studying Arah. I would say both humans and sylvari will have the biggest presence there due to their interests (history and cleansing of corruption). There might be a slight asura interest because of the land’s magical background, but there is nothing worth holding a norn or a charr’s interest.

We see Trahearne’s ritual taking instantaneous effects within the Artesian Waters. The corruption will be purified as quickly as the risen are prevented from re-spreading corruption.

So it very well may be that Orr is mostly purified in the story. However, interesting fact: the Temple of Melandru has blooming trees like those seen in The Source of Orr’s end regardless of its contested status. Thalador found this after the F&F: Retribution update went live. I think it was around longer, but I’m not sure.

So combined with Anet’s constant changes to risen making them slowly more decrepid looking… they may be slowly adding some purification to the Risen/Orr. And if these changes occur to lore alongside real time like Flame and Frost seems to, then we got less than a year and visible changes along the water currents, so only a few years at worst for Orr to be purified.

Hmm, that would be interesting, but I highly doubt they will fully purify Orr because of the new player aspect. I personally believe the changes to Orrians are so that they better reflect how ArenaNet originally imagined them. I mean they have also grown by like 1.5 times in size. Although looking at Shiro’s Afflicted in Winds of Change, maybe creatures of magic bloat up when their master’s source of magic is removed, lol. Just so you know Konig, that last part was totally sarcastic, please don’t take me seriously there.

Yeah, I doubt a fully purified Orr too. Not for years to come.

However, slowly seeing new uncorrupted trees in specific locations starting from The Artesian Waters throughout Orr? Just little patches of non-corruption out in Orr? That sounds like fun.

True, I agree it is a nice thought that perhaps in a decade or two all dragon corruption might be removed from the world (without any of Balthazar’s cleansing flames).

It is plausible that with the Living Story in constant progress and ArenaNet’s apparent willingness to have temporary content, that sooner or later they might pull a Cataclysm and create a new low-level experience.

Konig, I think there are a few things that you’re missing:

First, I think you’re seriously underestimating the pull that Orr is likely to have on the more religiously-minded members of humanity. The Temple of the Mount has been destroyed twice, and yet it is still one of the most holy sites in the world, including being the subject of the most (in)famous religious conflicts in history.

Yes, Orr has historically been shunned… but it’s been shunned by everyone, and it’s been shunned on the basis that it is a cursed land dominated by the undead hordes of an elder dragon. When that is no longer true, and it is once again green and habitable… then you can bet that the call of the first temples of the Six on Tyria, not to mention their holy city and the place where they first set foot on the world, is going to start drawing a lot of attention.

Your comparison with Ascalon is a poor one, since there is a very good reason for humans to cut their losses and give up on Ascalon – because the charr aren’t intending to give it up. Orr, however, is probably the one place in Tyria where no other extant race has levied a historical claim. In fact, if it turns out that the centaurs have not been defeated in Harathi Hinterlands – or that, like Bonfaaz Burntfur’s death in Prophecies, the death of the Ulgoth doesn’t do much to impact centaur determination – then a reheating of the centaur war is likely to make resettling refugees in a rejuvenated and defensible Orr look rather attractive. We could even be looking at a situation where with Orr available, the Krytans could, over the decades, end up doing a Rurik and deciding that Kryta isn’t worth having to constantly fight centaurs over.

Certainly, saying that humans were forced to give up on one of their old nations and therefor they shouldn’t have another is not exactly a solid basis for maintaining good relations with a race among whom a significant population is already up in arms for giving up on Ascalon. In contrast, Jennah being able to claim the restoration of the holy city of the gods to humankind as one of the payoffs to achieving peace and cooperation with the charr might be a major coup to mollifying that dissent… and that’s just not going to have the same impact if Orr is turned over to the ex-pirates of Lion’s Arch and the Captain’s Council. (Remember that Lion’s Arch is not presenting itself as the center of the United Nations of Tyria, and many humans (and asura) are still wary of the criminal associations of Lion’s Arch.)

Seriously, the charr held a grudge over Ascalon that essentially defined their culture for over a thousand years, and Ascalon does not hold nearly the significance for them that Orr holds for humans. Humans are the one playable race that can match the charr for sheer stubborness – they’ve had to give up on Ascalon because they couldn’t beat the charr, and they’ve had to give up on Orr because, to quote the very first trailer, “Zhaitan’s power was too great”. Now that Zhaitan has fallen and Orr is recovering… do you really think humans are going to be any less insistant than the charr on reclaiming their ancient land?

(On that matter, to consider your nuking analogy: The charr effectively nuked their own land in order to reclaim it, and humans and charr were fighting over it from then until the treaty (and the Separatists still are). So yes, I think humans would want to claim their ancestral land once it is viable to do so. Even with no recovery to the land whatsoever, as the Risen get pushed back Orr is probably more habitable than Ascalon was any time between the Searing and the Foefire – crops can be grown in the area around Fort Trinity.)

I posted this on the Guru already, but I might as well do it here as well, so more people can check it out. A friend of mine made a discovery on Southsun Cove. There was a hidden cave, in it a wall of steam that blocks further entry. However he (playing a necro) managed to time a jump and port skill well enough to blink behind the wall. These are screenshots of the interior space.

I suscpect that this will be either the place were Canach hides, or where we fight the Karka Queen.

The last two pictures were made by me show you how to get there.

About Orr recovery – we still have good two thirds of the area unused. I find it possible that with later updates, we’ll get to explore zones that take place after the cleansing, free of Zhaitan’s corruption and where the land is recovering, and people are maybe even settling in.