Special Collections Of Madness
Why do you want to kill the Elder Dragons? How would you do so? The answers to such questions fill the minds of many, maybe even those of the dragons themselves. For Glint’s ability to perceive the thoughts of others may be prototypical of her race. If it is, imagine what it must be like to feel the vibe of countless intellects directing their animosity towards you.
I guess becoming an Elder Dragon isn’t exactly every creature’s idea of a dream job then. What they do is so radical that it is difficult for the ancient serpents to avoid antagonism. Effectively, they take back the gift of magic by force. Thus, whilst Glint served the races, choosing to resist the cycle of magic rather than embrace it, everyone loved her. Had she ascended to the role of Elder Dragon, however, opinions might have changed. For not every race is as noble as the seers, forgotten, jotun (or even charr).
I’m fairly certain that it was Glint who advised the elder races to create the bloodstone; she may also have helped them to understand the Elder Dragons’ perspective. The bloodstone embodied a new way of living with magic and dragons. In regards to magic, the races would live responsibly; in regards to dragons, they would live harmoniously. For the jotun, this probably involved cultural devolution culminating in the semi-nomadic society of the present day; the forgotten strived to practice a peaceful coexistence with other creatures; presumably, the seers and the dwarves did too. Although we can’t be sure whether the mursaat also received counsel from Glint, they did eventually seek to maintain a low magical profile, becoming the “Unseen Ones” and casting their powerful spells infrequently.
It is entirely possible that Glint wanted the bloodstone to replace the Elder Dragons as the primary (and perhaps also only) source of magic for the lesser races. This would practically eliminate civilization’s competition with dragons for magic. Glint appointed the forgotten to aid races unfamiliar with the Elder Dragonic cycle in adopting the bloodstone as their sole source of magic. Given that races such as humans were attracted to Tyria by its magical energies and that those energies were in turn emanating from slumbering Elder Dragons, the importance of instructing said races in the bloodstone cannot be overemphasized.
When the gods gave magic to humans, they probably did so under Glint’s supervision. This had disastrous consequences, however, because humanity was unprepared for the corrupting effects of the near-absolute power conferred by Tyrian magic. What was already in the heart of humanity found the dominance to overwhelm his psyche when infused with arcane energies. But there is some nobility in him. Doric, a human king, petitioned his gods to take back magic from humanity. It is unclear how many others supported Doric’s position. Presumably, the guilds fighting for mastery of mankind did not and they certainly must have constituted a significant proportion of the human population. Nevertheless, the gods acceded to Doric’s plea.
No one really knows why Abaddon, one of the gods, disagreed with the decision of his fellows. Perhaps he, like the human guilds, reveled in newfound powers afforded by Tyrian magic? His disagreement was so sharp that it severed any loyalties he felt toward the other gods and turned humanity back to the sword.
But Abaddon was once considered the wisest of his peers; I cannot imagine him choosing to war against them without first trying to reason with them. No doubt the Elder Dragons were discussed; no doubt Glint offered her own advice too. And so the wisdom of a god vied with the wisdom of a lesser dragon for the attention of the hearts of their hearers. The matter was eventually decided: the power of magic would be broken into the pieces of the bloodstone. Although the gods intended the gift of magic to be used for the good of all, introducing the practice of the arcane to an inexperienced mankind had only brought the fledgling race to the brink of annihilation. This was something that the gods were not prepared to risk, having saved humanity from just such a threat before.
The pieces of the bloodstone were probably modelled after the Elder Dragons themselves. Did Glint want to become like them too? I don’t think so. Once freed from her master’s magical grip, the lesser dragon lived out the remainder of her days in the infinitesimally humble confines of a single grain of sand in a barren desert. Forgotten. Ogden thinks that she could have become an Elder Dragon. I just roll my eyes. Glint was far too wise to risk becoming a fiendish monster like her elder kin again.
(edited by Stephen.6312)
All dragons enjoy the ability to communicate with their minds to some extent, especially Mordremoth. Assuming that Ceara was corrupted by the latter, a cursory reading of her journal reveals that the Elder Dragon “communicated with [her] through images of death, destruction, and destiny”. (This form of correspondence is what Ogden hesitates to call a language.) Ceara was left pondering the meaning of Mordremoth’s attempts to converse, until such time as he appeared to learn language, as evidenced by the exchanges between the two recorded in Ceara’s holo-logs. I wouldn’t put the ability to learn languages beyond the reach of other Elder Dragons either, such as the late Zaithan, Kralkatorrik, or even Jormag, primarily because these three dragons use models of corruption that assimilate the citizens and cultures of civilizations. But if this is the case, why is Glint the only dragon to develop empathy for the lesser races? This is a hard question that remains an orphan, even in the midst of scholastic souls like Ogden Stonehealer.
Primordus, Bubbles/Steve/Sclerite, Jormag, Zaithan, Kralkatorrik, Mordremoth. These may all have resembled the Glint that we all came to know and love, once. But something changed them. It is said that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Perhaps, then, it is the power that magic affords them? Or maybe, the attitudes of lesser races towards them?
The tragedy that befell the whaleship Essex formed the inspiration for Herman Melville’s classic work, “Moby kitten”. The year was 1820. The Essex was hunting sperm whales in the South Pacific when, one day, the hunter became the hunted. Sperm whales produce a high quality liquid wax called spermaceti which, in the western world of the 1800s, formed the backbone of a lucrative industry in lubricants, oil lamps, and candles. In it’s time the Essex culled many whales – until, that is, the last of it’s days afloat when a solitary bull took exception to being harpooned. The crew of the Essex saw sperm whales as the producers of a resource to be harvested, nothing more. To me, the lesser races of Tyria see the Elder Dragons in a similar light. The latter’s magic is a tool that the former claims it has the right to wield and for which it will kill. But could the behavior of the Elder Dragons really be based on xenophobia? I have to admit, it could be.
One thing to note about the cycle of the Elder Dragons is that it simply does not lead to the extinction of all life on Tyria, whether the planet or the continent. Glint is said to have protected some races from the Elder Dragons’ wrath during the latter’s last rise – namely the seers, forgotten, dwarves, and jotun, but these few constitute only a portion of the many who survived it. How do we know that other races survived the Elder Dragons’ last rise? Mythology. The ogres, tengu, krait, kodan, even the charr, all tell stories of previous cycles of the great serpents. Not that every race lived to tell such tales. We do know of at least one species that did not survive the last rise: the giganticus lupicus. Why did the other races survive when they did not?
(edited by Stephen.6312)
Tucked away in the corner of the Special Collections section of the Durmand Priory Basement is a book titled, “Myths and Legends of Ancient Ascalon”. In this volume, Cita Commandheart relates charr mythology, including a fable about monsters that roamed eastern Tyria in bygone days, who used their sharp teeth and massive claws to prey on smaller animals, and whose solitary lifestyle left them vulnerable to the dragons. Essentially, the story goes, because these monsters did not band together like the charr to defend theselves against the Elder Dragons, they were wiped out. Does this fable refer to the giganticus lupicus? It might. In another book found in the collections, titled, “The Natural War”, the author Airkas speculates that the “Great Giants” (i.e. giganticus lupicus) had massive claws. In my opinion, then, it is entirely possible that the charr fable is refering to the giganticus lupicus , suggesting that these “Great Giants” were wiped out by the Elder Dragons because they failed to unite against them.
I don’t believe that the giganticus lupicus were as primitive as “The Natural War” makes them out to be, however. The tome suggests that the giants fought mainly with their hands and feet. The giganticus lupicus of Arah EXP would probably beg to differ. He is a clear example of a magic-wielding giant. Granted, his magical abilities have been augmented by Zaithan, making it difficult to differentiate his pre-existing arcane affinity from that of the dragon’s empowerment, but the fact remains that he is a magician of sorts. I would like to suggest that he is not the exception to the rule, he is the norm. The giants that went extinct in the last rise of the Elder Dragons were as much magic users as any other race. Why is this so important, though? Well, it may be crucial to understanding the work of the Elder Dragons…
You see, the Elder Dragons may awaken to defend our world against foreign threats. What kind of threats? In my opinion, the most common threat is that posed by a race incompatible with them. Responding to such a threat in no way diminishes the importance an Elder Dragon attaches to eating, however. Every creature is hungry when it stirs from sleep and spends time consuming nourishment. Elder Dragons aren’t exactly small and so they may feed for what seems to us a phenomenally long time before they turn their attention to other matters (indeed, they may never stop eating, as raising and maintaining a standing army must leave one utterly famished). In the past, the giganticus lupicus may have been an invading species against whom the Elder Dragons fought. To do so, they needed armies, conscripting members of races with whom they can form symbiotic (or parasitic, if you prefer) relationships (i.e. “corrupt”) before fighting the Great Giants. This would explain why the giganticus lupicus went extinct during the last rise, whilst so many other races did not.
I cannot pretend that Glint would not question my theory, however. “Firstly,” she would ask, “why would the arrival of a new race on Tyria pose a threat either to the dragons or the lesser races?” I’m sure that her chiding would include suggestions that the Elder Dragons are doing something far more mundane, like reproducing. So what of it? Was Zaithan reproducing? Dragons have to come from somewhere, I suppose, and the Elder Dragon of Undeath was surrounded by them: Blightghast the Plaguebringer, Tequatl the Sunless, Ogravros the Moondeath, Fafnarin the Heartslayer, and Horrogos the Soulbreaker. From Glint we learn that dragons lay eggs; so far, however, apparently no eggs have been recovered either from Zaithan’s corpse or his lair in Orr. I don’t think this eliminates the possibility that he was reproducing, though. Why? Many real-world reptiles carry their young in a special pouch in their throat. Careful examination of images of Zaithan suggests that he may have been transporting young in just such a sack, taking them with him to a watery grave…in which case, I still think that Ogden is mad.
(edited by Stephen.6312)
Wow I just realised you’re having an entire conversation all by yourself. 8 posts in a row. Which takes some of the joy out of responding point by point. So I’ll just leave what I have.
Having concisely extoled the necessary function that Elder Dragons perform (the balancing of magic), he then talks about eliminating them like it is a given.
We don’t really know that for certain. It’s like finger prints, there’s no real scientific reason why they’re unique, we’ve just never really found two pares that are the same. Number of theories why but not really the point, it’s an example of retroactive explanation. We see that the dragons consume magic and release it while they sleep, and we assume that this is an important and necessary function or that without it the world would fall in chaos. But its possible that the facts are correct but our explanation and assumptions are not.
Dragon is the lease of life. Just look at the extended map of the world that was revealed to us in this latest update (Echoes of the Past). Few if any other regions of the planet we call Tyria enjoy the biodiversity of our continent.
Well I haven’t played through GW yet, but from my understanding we’ve only seen Cantha, Far Shiverpeaks and Elona. Two of those are technically deserts (more or less), but to be less technical the one is a conventional desert and the other is a frozen tundra. So bio-diversity isn’t particularly synonymous with them (or is it…). Also, we’ve barely explored the world yet, oddly enough since technologically-speaking the races should be all over the place. But I guess if your proverbial house is on fire you don’t feel like knowing what’s over the next hill.
I guess becoming an Elder Dragon isn’t exactly every creature’s idea of a dream job then.
In the case of dragons it seems as if it naturally occurs. Dragons don’ die of old age, and naturally absorb magic. Given enough time a Elder Dragons pops up.
All dragons enjoy the ability to communicate with their minds to some extent, especially Mordremoth.
We don’t necessarily know that for certain. We know that via corruption they gain access to the minds of the corrupted. Mordremoth seems to be a fairly unique case in that he corrupts via the mind. We don’t really see any Elder Dragons communicating via telepathy to those not corrupted, so to assume that all Elder Dragons can do so just because Glint could (communicate without a component of corruption) is perhaps not correct. Not sure about Jormag and the Sons though, but I think it also involved corruption and then communication.
He has imaginary friends that he claims have Tyria’s “best interests” at heart when they direct him to fight the Elder Dragons.
Who says they’re imaginary?
I suspect that amongst them are Livia and Gleam – two other figures from GW1 who live today in gw2 (supposedly for Gleam). Note: Gleam is Glint’s child, as revealed today.
the last time I checked there weren’t that many “good” dragons left to replace the “evil” ones that we intend to kill.
- Gleam
- The Last Egg
- Other, unknown, surviving children of Glint that have already hatched (someone should go count how many eggs are in that lair in GW1…)
- Kuunavang
- Shiney
- Albax
This is presuming, of course, that Saltspray Dragons can consume magic too.
Dragon is the cradle of civilisation. This is why the Elder Dragons seemingly emerged from the foundations of our world. They do not seek us out, we seek them out for their magic, using it to develop sophisticated societies. Dragon is the lease of life. Just look at the extended map of the world that was revealed to us in this latest update (Echoes of the Past). Few if any other regions of the planet we call Tyria enjoy the biodiversity of our continent.
An interesting, but false, concept.
Firstly, while the more magically attuned races, such as the asura and humans, flock to the Elder Dragons unknowingly, those that aren’t avoid them like supperstition (see the norn and Drakkar Lake). So civilizations do not depend upon the dragons, nor do they all seek them out.
Secondly, the continental Tyria (what’s explorable) has such biodiversity because of the Elder Dragons, true, but because they were displaced by the dragons.
Krait, quaggan, ogre, skritt, asura, norn, charr, karka, djinn, humans, tengu, kodan, largos and perhaps more are non-native to Tyria.
The ogres and the charr come from the east, invaders.
The humans come from another world, invaders.
The quaggan, krait, largos, and karka come from the seas, refugees.
The kodan and norn come from the north, refugees.
The asura and skritt come from the underground, refugees.
The djinn come from the southeast, refugee.
The tengu come from across the globe, refugees.
Only the centaur, grawl, dwarves, jotun, mursaat, and seers may be native to the place we explore in GW1 and GW2. And even that is not certain.
The part of Tyria that surrounds the Sea of Sorrows and Shiverpeak Mountains is to the races of the world as Divinity’s Reach is to humans. A refugee mixing pot.
It is not the existence of the Elder Dragons hibernating in Tyria that brought biodiversity. It was their awakening and attempt at extermination/corruption that created the biodiversity.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Why do you want to kill the Elder Dragons?
Because they are actively trying to control, consume, or destroy all civilization. If they did not seek such greedy goals, then perhaps co-existence would be possible.
For Glint’s ability to perceive the thoughts of others may be prototypical of her race.
It is actually stated to be unique and why she allied against the Elder Dragons.
Effectively, they take back the gift of magic by force.
But must they? They must balance it, but they could surely have a different means of balancing the magic in the world than going from one extreme (too much magic) to the other extreme (not enough magic). IF they learned to control themselves – or were replaced with beings that could control themselves – then they should be capable of leaving magic in a state that is neither too much or too little.
I’m fairly certain that it was Glint who advised the elder races to create the bloodstone; she may also have helped them to understand the Elder Dragons’ perspective. The bloodstone embodied a new way of living with magic and dragons. In regards to magic, the races would live responsibly; in regards to dragons, they would live harmoniously.
I do not think so. Such a state would require the Elder Dragons from seeking to live harmoniously just as much as the races. But it is heavily established in Edge of Destiny that Kralkatorrik seeks to consume all things within itself, and destroy the rest; in Sea of Sorrows and the personal story, it is clear that Zhaitan was intent to rule.
The Elder Dragons proactively make the first assault on the races – Lion’s Arch merely set up a defense, and the risen struck time and time again until they bested those defenses. Kralkatorrik actively created the Dragonbrand as he went south to kill Glint. Jormag caused a four-year long blizzard before assaulting the norn. The Great Destroyer was Primordus’ herald not in waking the Elder Dragon sooner, but by making the way via exterminating life.
Harmony cannot exist if one side desires conflict. You cannot make peace with a tyrant who will assault you the next chance he gets.
Although we can’t be sure whether the mursaat also received counsel from Glint, they did eventually seek to maintain a low magical profile, becoming the “Unseen Ones” and casting their powerful spells infrequently.
Their “low profile” was that of manipulators and tyrants from the shadow. Despite the old desire of players for mursaat to be the guys doing necessary evil to keep Abaddon locked away, it has long been proven that the mursaat are willing to sacrifice all others to save their own backsides.
All dragons enjoy the ability to communicate with their minds to some extent, especially Mordremoth. […] I wouldn’t put the ability to learn languages beyond the reach of other Elder Dragons either, such as the late Zaithan, Kralkatorrik, or even Jormag, primarily because these three dragons use models of corruption that assimilate the citizens and cultures of civilizations. But if this is the case, why is Glint the only dragon to develop empathy for the lesser races?
It is not the understanding of language that bars the path of understanding, but the understanding of others.
The Elder Dragons show themselves to be without compassion – they cannot understand mortal races, not as a case of lack of communication, but lack of comprehension.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
The crew of the Essex saw sperm whales as the producers of a resource to be harvested, nothing more. To me, the lesser races of Tyria see the Elder Dragons in a similar light. The latter’s magic is a tool that the former claims it has the right to wield and for which it will kill. But could the behavior of the Elder Dragons really be based on xenophobia? I have to admit, it could be.
There is a MASSIVE flaw in your argument.
The races did not know that the Elder Dragons held or consumed magikittenil recently. 200 years of conflict existed before that knowledge came to be known in this cycle. It is unknown if such was known until Glint’s freedom in the last cycle.
How do we know that other races survived the Elder Dragons’ last rise? Mythology. The ogres, tengu, krait, kodan, even the charr, all tell stories of previous cycles of the great serpents.
Krait and kodan don’t have such mythologies of the dragons. Only ogre, norn, and charr do. Tengu seem to have knowledge of the Elder Dragons, but nothing says it is old knowledge.
I don’t believe that the giganticus lupicus were as primitive as “The Natural War” makes them out to be, however. The tome suggests that the giants fought mainly with their hands and feet. The giganticus lupicus of Arah EXP would probably beg to differ. He is a clear example of a magic-wielding giant. Granted, his magical abilities have been augmented by Zaithan, making it difficult to differentiate his pre-existing arcane affinity from that of the dragon’s empowerment, but the fact remains that he is a magician of sorts. I would like to suggest that he is not the exception to the rule, he is the norm. The giants that went extinct in the last rise of the Elder Dragons were as much magic users as any other race. Why is this so important, though? Well, it may be crucial to understanding the work of the Elder Dragons…
The G-Lupe in Arah actually hints to the race being the most technologically advanced of the previous age. That thing is a cyborg.
I suspect that at least some G-Lupe were, rather than primitive, peaceful yet powerful to the point where they didn’t need weapons of stone and wood (given their size, such would be a waste of resource). Their weapons were their claws and magic because they had technologically (or magitechnologically) augmented bodies. They were likely apex predators before the Elder Dragon rise, and thus being the top of the food chain didn’t have the same kind of society as other, weaker, races. Too many of such large beasts would no doubt quickly diminish the local food sources, so small societies had to exist simply for their survival – unless there were other equally huge beasts that they could farm that had diets that were easily regrown/repopulated – but such doesn’t seem to have existed.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
- Other, unknown, surviving children of Glint that have already hatched (someone should go count how many eggs are in that lair in GW1…)
21.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.