Guild Wars 2

Don’t forget for rangers: spirits
For elementalists: water (not just ice)
For warriors: also battle

And thief has shadow twice?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Grenth: Death, Ice, Darkness, Cold, Sorrow, Strict Ethics, Judgment
{snip}
Dhuum: Death

Dhuum has a lot of unknowns for what he was called the god of.

The Reaper of the Labyrinth might help here – from the titles, he was also associated with judgement (The Final Judge), darkness (The Voice in the Void, The Mouth at the Edge of Darkness), and final oblivion (death beyond death, the one part that Grenth seems not to have been able to take). I think there may be more titles that I haven’t been able to find, too.

mexay.3902:

draxynnic.3719:

Mind you, this does bring up another interesting consideration… what domains do the professions seem to have?

If we’re talking PURELY magic based and having their own domains not necessarily relating to Gods and Dragons.

Elementalist: Fire, Water, Air, Ice, Earth, Healing
Engineer: None
Guardian: Battle, Light, Order, Healing
Mesmer: Mind, Chaos
Necromancer: Death, Cold, Darkness, Sacrifice(?)
Ranger: Nature, Growth, Survival, Animals
Thief: Shadow, Death, Mind, Shadow
Warrior: Inspiration, Strength

Hrrrmn. Technically speaking, Inspiration is associated with Mesmers. I see what you’re trying to achieve there, though – may I suggest Leadership instead?

I’m also not sure I’d apply Healing to any of the GW2 professions. They have it, but it’s not especially strong (compared to GW1 healers), and ALL of them have it.

What I’d probably have, based on your list, is:

GW2:
Elementalist: Fire, Water, Air, Cold, Earth, Energy
Engineer: None
Guardian: Force, Light, Spirit, Leadership
Mesmer: Mind, Illusion, Chaos, Energy, Force
Necromancer: Death, Cold, Darkness, Sacrifice, Spirit
Ranger: Fire, Water, Air, Cold, Earth, Plants, Animals, Spirit
Thief: Darkness, Mind
Warrior: Leadership, Anger

GW1:
Elementalist: Fire, Air, Cold, Earth, Energy
Mesmer: Mind, Illusion, Chaos, Energy
Monk: Healing, Light, Force
Necromancer: Death, Cold, Darkness, Sacrifice, Anger
Ranger: Fire, Air, Water, Animals, Spirit
Warrior: Leadership, Anger
Assassin: Darkness, Death, Mind
Ritualist: Spirit, Death, Healing, Sacrifice
Dervish: Cold, Earth, Light, Healing, Death, Anger
Paragon: Leadership, Light, Healing, Energy, Anger

Note that I haven’t assigned ‘Water’ to GW1 elementalists. This is to draw a line between the majority of GW1 ‘water’ magic working to freeze the enemy, and the healing properties of water magic mostly introduced in GW2… but presaged by the Ranger’s Healing Spring.

I kinda want to give Leadership to GW1 necros as well, but I’m not sure whether it’s appropriate to link shouts to orders in that way or not.

I may be horribly biased towards necromancers, but not even I see a connection between leadership and GW1 necromancers.

Regarding Dhuum’s many titles, they are just that, titles. They do not really give us any new information regarding his spheres of influence, other than death, and being really scary.

draxynnic.3719:

(death beyond death, the one part that Grenth seems not to have been able to take).

As I remember it, Grenth simply chose to be more foregiving than Dhuum. I don’t think it was ever stated that his position regarding death was due to a limitation of his sphere if influence.

It’s possible, but Dhuum’s continued godhood – albeit as a fallen god – suggests that for one reason or another, Dhuum was able to hold onto something that Grenth either could not or chose not to take.

It is possible that because Grenth chose not to fully take Dhuum’s role, that Dhuum there for was able to hold on to a little bit of his power. I don’t know if this is really how it works, just speculating.

draxynnic.3719:

mexay.3902:

draxynnic.3719:

Mind you, this does bring up another interesting consideration… what domains do the professions seem to have?

If we’re talking PURELY magic based and having their own domains not necessarily relating to Gods and Dragons.

Elementalist: Fire, Water, Air, Ice, Earth, Healing
Engineer: None
Guardian: Battle, Light, Order, Healing
Mesmer: Mind, Chaos
Necromancer: Death, Cold, Darkness, Sacrifice(?)
Ranger: Nature, Growth, Survival, Animals
Thief: Shadow, Death, Mind, Shadow
Warrior: Inspiration, Strength

Hrrrmn. Technically speaking, Inspiration is associated with Mesmers. I see what you’re trying to achieve there, though – may I suggest Leadership instead?

I’m also not sure I’d apply Healing to any of the GW2 professions. They have it, but it’s not especially strong (compared to GW1 healers), and ALL of them have it.

What I’d probably have, based on your list, is:

GW2:
Elementalist: Fire, Water, Air, Cold, Earth, Energy
Engineer: None
Guardian: Force, Light, Spirit, Leadership
Mesmer: Mind, Illusion, Chaos, Energy, Force
Necromancer: Death, Cold, Darkness, Sacrifice, Spirit
Ranger: Fire, Water, Air, Cold, Earth, Plants, Animals, Spirit
Thief: Darkness, Mind
Warrior: Leadership, Anger

GW1:
Elementalist: Fire, Air, Cold, Earth, Energy
Mesmer: Mind, Illusion, Chaos, Energy
Monk: Healing, Light, Force
Necromancer: Death, Cold, Darkness, Sacrifice, Anger
Ranger: Fire, Air, Water, Animals, Spirit
Warrior: Leadership, Anger
Assassin: Darkness, Death, Mind
Ritualist: Spirit, Death, Healing, Sacrifice
Dervish: Cold, Earth, Light, Healing, Death
Paragon: Leadership, Light, Healing, Energy

Note that I haven’t assigned ‘Water’ to GW1 elementalists. This is to draw a line between the majority of GW1 ‘water’ magic working to freeze the enemy, and the healing properties of water magic mostly introduced in GW2… but presaged by the Ranger’s Healing Spring.

I kinda want to give Leadership to GW1 necros as well, but I’m not sure whether it’s appropriate to link shouts to orders in that way or not.

I see Leadership or Inspiration. I was thinking along the lines of paragon shouts, but I know Inspiration Magic is a thing given GW1 Attribute lines and we have some Warriors (or at least Koss) in GW1 praying to Lyssa. That said, so is Leadership with Paragons. I would argue that Leadership is probably derived from Inspiration magic, as Leaders are arguably there to inspire their followers to follower them.

I don’t quite see where you’re getting Anger from though. I say Strength because everything about the class is focused on making them and their allies stronger, as opposed to say a guardian which focuses more on defensive buffs. Strength is also Warrior’s primary attribute in GW1, whereas there is no indication of Anger being part of the class. Are you getting mixed up with Adrenaline?

I thought about Healing, but each class uses their own sort of healing magic. For example, a Necromancer heals entirely differently to say a Guardian or Elementalist. Maybe this is where the mixing of two particular forms of magic come into play, but I’d definitely say Warrior healing magic is total different to say that of a Guardian’s.

I don’t really see where you get Leadership from with the Necromancer class other than leading a minion group. If anything I’d Necromancer are more so classes that shy away from others, given what we’ve heard or has at least been implied about them.

I think the Attribute lines would be another good indication of magic uses in GW1 and to an extent, GW2 as well. There’s also damage types (Fire, Cold, Earth, Lighting, Holy, Dark, Shadow and Chaos). I’d say Holy is Light magic and Lighting could be considered Air (and maybe Energy).

Heh, I’d completely forgotten that Leadership was a Paragon attribute in GW1. But yeah, I was thinking shouts there primarily, while the mesmer’s Inspiration attribute behaved very differently to shouts. The thought did strike me that a couple of the GW2 mantras behave in a similar fashion to shouts, but I don’t think it’s a strong enough connection to make.

Anger is basically my stand-in for Adrenaline – and it was supposed to be in the Dervish and Paragon as well, which probably would have made it clearer. Warriors, and to a lesser extent Dervishes and Paragons, are fueled by adrenaline, while GW1 necromancers had abilities that reinforced adrenaline generation. However, I used ‘anger’ instead of ‘adrenaline’ to broaden its definition to incorporate non-adrenaline-based effects to strengthen a physical attack as well. So it’s not a mixup, it’s a deliberate rebranding to broaden the concept. :P

Healing, in this context, is something I’m putting in to represent something fairly specific that isn’t in GW2. Basically, with the exception of the paragon, it’s defined as having the ability to act as a healbot (yes, people made healbot dervishes, generally by having the dervishes stack enchantments on themselves with Avatar of Dwayna and spamming Mystic Healing), although the actual criteria I used was ‘has access to its own resurrection skills’. GW2-style healing is something that I see as being folded into other domains that are naturally associated with lesser forms of healing, such as Light, Darkness (seems to be what lifesteal actually comes under), Energy and Water.

Regarding leadership on Necromancers: Primary what I’m thinking of here are the ‘Orders’ skills possessed by GW1 necromancers (GW2 necromancers certainly don’t have it). While this is a party enchantment rather than a shout, otherwise they feel quite similar, and the keyword ‘Order’ makes it sound like it could be, well, the necromancer shouting orders reinforced by magic. However, the mechanics are different enough that you’ll note that I acknowledged that I considered including it, but didn’t.

Incidentally, I’m now wondering why I put Energy into the Paragon. They’ve certainly got energy-management skills for themselves and others, but that’s not really what I was thinking with Energy – more the form of untyped energy that’s used with skills like the elementalist arcane spells and Spatial Surge. In fact, I’m considering merging it with Chaos entirely. Paragon energy management, by contrast, seems more like it’s coming from Leadership.

Ah good ol’ Avatar of Dwayna. I always preferred running VoS burst builds on my Dervish.

I’ve been thinking more and more about magic and it essentially having primary and sub schools. It fits very nicely into the old schools of magic, where you have Denial, Aggression, Destruction and Preservation, though apparently this is no longer a thing according to that dreaded interview.

I’d say Leadership and Inspiration are in a similar school. That said, Balthazar is said to have domain of Battle, perhaps Leadership is actually a sub-school of Battle magic, which would in turn summarise Anger/Strength/Andrenaline (I still don’t consider Anger to be a good term for the Warrior’s school, given there’s no reference to rage or anger, just Adrenaline which is more about Energy build up and Strength (consider that an Adrenaline hit irl usually doesn’t normally have a lot to do with Anger itself), though I understand it’s the same as a “rage” mechanic in other games.). This would also fit the Guardian quite nicely as well, as a lot of their magic is based around controlling a battlefield, potentially even Necromancer as it’s utilizing a lot of area denial skills in GW2. Perhaps Spirit and Death or Spirit and Life could be under similar schools here as well.

I think the more the domains can be compressed, the better.

Agreed on compression of domains, but I think we should be careful not to overcompress them. For instance, we know guardians have borrowed stuff from Ritualists, but it would be a bit weird to list Death among their domains, and ranger spirit-magic manifests very differently to necromancers going into the spirit world through Death Shroud.

There are some skills in GW1 that connect adrenaline to the concept of anger, but I’d admit that it’s a bit of a placeholder term. However, I’m not entirely convinced ‘battle’ or ‘strength’ wouldn’t simply be another placeholder. Strength might well be a better placeholder, though.

Regarding a Battle and Leadership meld… I think there is a distinction to be made there between how guardians and warriors use magic to fight. Warriors turn it mostly internally, augmenting their physical power to strike fiercer blows, while guardians turn it externally, applying their magic to their weapon in order to make it more dangerous.

One thing that would probably help here is coming up with actual definitions of each domain, so we’re both on the same page. However, that’s going to have to be a project for another time – I’m already behind on today’s to-do list.

My guess at the spheres: Light (Truth/Crystal), Darkness, Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Life, Death, Plant, Ice, Mind/Illusion, Strength