Guild Wars 2

Do the human gods correspond to the dragons’ domains of magic? It seemed like Balthazar went after Primordus’ power instead of Jormag’s. Which makes sense. And a few others line up as well:

Zhaitan – Grenth
Mordremoth – Melandru
Primordus – Balthazar

The other three are less clear-cut. I would argue:

Bubbles – Kormir (by way of Abbadon: ocean, secrets)
Kralkatorrik – Lyssa (purple, mesmery reality-warping a la Glint)
Jormag – Dwayna (blue, and sheer process of elimination)

But is this just (flimsy) thematic overlap or am I on to something here?

Except Lyssa is now the goddess of water, not Kormir. And Modremoth had the mindiness thing. And Grenth is god of ice.

Grenth has Ritualist Magic as well which corresponds with Jormag’s ties to the Mists.

Grenth/Dwayna = Jormag(either Dwayna or Grenth could attempt to absorb his Magic while we are dealing with Braham)

Dhuum/Menzies = Zhaitan(who’s power is being absorbed by everyone)

Abaddon/Lyssa = S

Lyssa/Dwayna = Kralkatorrik(most likely to be Lyssa’s prime target for power)

Melandru/Lyssa = Mordremoth(everyone is absorbing his power)

Balthazar = Primordius(Balthazar’s prime target for power)

Is it a coincidence? Yes.

This topic has come up so often that ArenaNet went and made an joke about it in Season 2, telling us how all arguments result in nothing supporting it.

• Even “Mordremoth = Melandru” doesn’t work because Mordremoth = Plant+Mind and Melandru = Plant+Animal, while Lyssa=Mind (somewhat).
• Even “Zhaitan=Grenth” doesn’t fit because then who does Jormag fit? Dwayna isn’t anything about ice or cold, that’s 100% Grenth and only Grenth.
• Kormir doesn’t fit anything because no dragon is about truth and order.
• Lyssa got water from Abaddon, but what about before Kormir’s rise, then she’d have no relation to any Elder Dragon (despite Kralkatorrik’s purpleness, nothing relates him to chaos or to mesmerism; Glint was stated to be 100% unique in her telepathy).

And this is only partially ignoring the fact that the elemental side of the gods changes around. To elabroate:

• Water, obviously, changed from Abaddon to Lyssa, ignoring Kormir.
• Grenth brought ice in all by himself, Dhuum has no relation to ice.
• Kormir, rather than being Wisdom and Water like Abaddon pre-fall or Secrets and Abyssal Depths post-fall, was Truth, Order, and Spirit – the latter two seemingly/potentially coming from Dwayna.

And then there’s the fact that the gods have things that the Elder Dragons don’t come close to touching, such as War, Life, Illusion, Beauty.

So yes, it is a coincidence. And people have been bringing it up trying to make a connection of 1:1 ever since before Mordremoth was even hinted at.

Not saying they’re related, but six doesn’t have to be coincidence. It may be that all planets that exist in the universe need six beings to control the spheres of influence. Tyria has dragons, where ever our gods came from had them, until they left. There’s no need for a 1:1 correspondence. They are not related except for the fact that they control their planet’s energy. It could be that when the human gods left they brought the humans that lived there because they new the planet would be destroyed due to their absence.

Except there’s the fact that the human gods existed on the face of tyria itself for a long period of time, and they had huge effects on the world at large (granting mortals magic and the Crystal sea turning into the crystal desert). So at one point in history, there were twelve beings with domains over Tyria. Then Abaddon was stuck in the realm of torment while his body recovered, and he partnered up with two more beings with divine touches, Dhuum and Menzies, each very powerful in their own right. Abaddon was going to bring about Nightfall, which would have affected all of Tyria directly until Kormir absorbed Abaddon.

So yeah, I don’t believe it’s anything more than a coincidence considering all the human gods lore. I don’t believe it takes 6 beings to control the magic of a world because there are clearly more than six at work (Dhuum and Menzies being powerful enough to be constant threats).

I’m going to just leave this here:

Dear lord… this again…?

This debunked theory just can’t die for some reason…

6 dragons, Charr each have 6 nipples; Coincidence?

There are at least 8 gods, even if some of them are exiled and not worshiped by humans. They still exist and are plenty powerful.

castlemanic.3198:

Except there’s the fact that the human gods existed on the face of tyria itself for a long period of time, and they had huge effects on the world at large (granting mortals magic and the Crystal sea turning into the crystal desert). So at one point in history, there were twelve beings with domains over Tyria. Then Abaddon was stuck in the realm of torment while his body recovered, and he partnered up with two more beings with divine touches, Dhuum and Menzies, each very powerful in their own right. Abaddon was going to bring about Nightfall, which would have affected all of Tyria directly until Kormir absorbed Abaddon.

So yeah, I don’t believe it’s anything more than a coincidence considering all the human gods lore. I don’t believe it takes 6 beings to control the magic of a world because there are clearly more than six at work (Dhuum and Menzies being powerful enough to be constant threats).

The Six Gods might have been on Tyria and influenced the physical world, but they would have had no influence on The All.

The theory that DarcShriek brought up (which I adhere to) is basically that the Six Gods are the equivalent of the Elder Dragons for the human homeworld. But where we’re killing off the Elder Dragons resulting in imbalance, they lost the world itself resulting in six orbs floating about pointlessly.

perilisk.1874:

There are at least 8 gods, even if some of them are exiled and not worshiped by humans. They still exist and are plenty powerful.

Well if we’re talking gods in general, there’s more than 8.

You have the Six Gods, and their last fallen god (Dhuum). You have Zintl and Ameyalli of the hylek, the Great Dwarf, Mellaggan, and finally Koda. At least 12 gods.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You have the Six Gods, and their last fallen god (Dhuum). You have Zintl and Ameyalli of the hylek, the Great Dwarf, Mellaggan, and finally Koda. At least 12 gods.

The human gods (including the fallen ones) all seem to be the same type of being, just like the Elder Dragons, despite their differences, inhabit a shared category. It isn’t clear if that’s true of the others you mention, or if they even exist as actual beings, rather than just sacralized concepts. Same for spirits of the wild, etc.

Also Mellaggan is a Quaggan nature goddess. I.e., Mel andru + Qu aggan . Even if the Quaggan insist otherwise, it’s most likely a (probably somewhat tongue-in-cheek) adoption by the Quaggan of a human deity, sort of like Badazar.

This was a popular theory in the past.

When you start reading about the lore, i thknk everybody has think about this.

perilisk.1874:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You have the Six Gods, and their last fallen god (Dhuum). You have Zintl and Ameyalli of the hylek, the Great Dwarf, Mellaggan, and finally Koda. At least 12 gods.

The human gods (including the fallen ones) all seem to be the same type of being, just like the Elder Dragons, despite their differences, inhabit a shared category. It isn’t clear if that’s true of the others you mention, or if they even exist as actual beings, rather than just sacralized concepts. Same for spirits of the wild, etc.

Also Mellaggan is a Quaggan nature goddess. I.e., Mel andru + Qu aggan . Even if the Quaggan insist otherwise, it’s most likely a (probably somewhat tongue-in-cheek) adoption by the Quaggan of a human deity, sort of like Badazar.

Plot twist..Badazar stole Balthazar’s Godhood

dun dun DAR!

perilisk.1874:

The human gods (including the fallen ones) all seem to be the same type of being, just like the Elder Dragons, despite their differences, inhabit a shared category. It isn’t clear if that’s true of the others you mention, or if they even exist as actual beings, rather than just sacralized concepts. Same for spirits of the wild, etc.

I would not consider the fallen gods of the Six pantheon to still be gods. They are demi-gods at best, mortals at worst.

perilisk.1874:

Also Mellaggan is a Quaggan nature goddess. I.e., Mel andru + Qu aggan . Even if the Quaggan insist otherwise, it’s most likely a (probably somewhat tongue-in-cheek) adoption by the Quaggan of a human deity, sort of like Badazar.

Except that there’s nothing to really support this beyond human scholar claims (and we have a long standing history of scholars – human, asuran, charr, or otherwise – making similar claims that are downright false, like “grawl are ancestoral cousins to humans” that charr scholars claim). Mellaggan and Melandru, while having similarities, are about as much of “the same” as Melandru and Mordremoth.

Mellaggan is specifically the goddess of the “bounty of the sea”, which has a very specific meaning. Melandru is the goddess of nature and earth.

Basically, Mellaggan is a lot more specialized in her patronage, and is more specifikitteno Tyria (like Zintl and Ameyalli) rather than general concepts like the Six Gods

The problem as we have it now, have 6 ed’s 6 gods blah blah, anet will use the fan theory character (Taimi) to go OH LOOK poobah I have this idea I randomly plucked out of thin air nothing is really supporting this but yeah its true don’t worry about it. There is 6 elder dragons 6 gods they are one and the same all same magical spheres

Commander oh right erm okay (scratches head)

Most of the recent episodes have been lame using flimsy excuses hopefully anet wont make this one as theres nothing to connect the dots

Konig Des Todes.2086:

perilisk.1874:

The human gods (including the fallen ones) all seem to be the same type of being, just like the Elder Dragons, despite their differences, inhabit a shared category. It isn’t clear if that’s true of the others you mention, or if they even exist as actual beings, rather than just sacralized concepts. Same for spirits of the wild, etc.

I would not consider the fallen gods of the Six pantheon to still be gods. They are demi-gods at best, mortals at worst.

perilisk.1874:

Also Mellaggan is a Quaggan nature goddess. I.e., Mel andru + Qu aggan . Even if the Quaggan insist otherwise, it’s most likely a (probably somewhat tongue-in-cheek) adoption by the Quaggan of a human deity, sort of like Badazar.

Except that there’s nothing to really support this beyond human scholar claims (and we have a long standing history of scholars – human, asuran, charr, or otherwise – making similar claims that are downright false, like “grawl are ancestoral cousins to humans” that charr scholars claim). Mellaggan and Melandru, while having similarities, are about as much of “the same” as Melandru and Mordremoth.

Mellaggan is specifically the goddess of the “bounty of the sea”, which has a very specific meaning. Melandru is the goddess of nature and earth.

Basically, Mellaggan is a lot more specialized in her patronage, and is more specifikitteno Tyria (like Zintl and Ameyalli) rather than general concepts like the Six Gods

Well, there are other similarities, like having the same starting syllables in their name, and the tendency of some quaggan groups to worship Mellaggan at sunken shrines to Melandru. We know that the gods have influenced nonhuman races, it would make a lot of sense for the quaggans to have had some folk memory of Melandru that ultimately became Mellaggan (which is basically a portmanteau of ‘Melandru’ and ‘quaggan’, now that I think on it). The focus on sea life could well be the result of the quaggans being an aquatic race and therefore focused on what happens in the oceans – they see Mellaggan as a sea deity because what they saw was her influence on the seas, and whatever Melandru was doing on land was out of their sight and interest at the time. Therefore, the apparently different identities of Melandru and Mellaggan could purely be a result of the different viewpoints of humans and quaggans, while still being the same goddess being seen from different angles.

While there are clear similarities, there’s also a fatal difference:

Mellaggan was killed by the krait.

Now one may argue that Melandru cutting ties could be seen by the quaggan as the goddess dying, however, Melandru would have left the world in Year 0 and stopped communication in year 1075 AE. The krait came into quaggan territories only 50 years ago. There’s a 200 year gap for Melandru to have gone silent if Mellaggan were the same as her.

And if she’s only gone silent, why say she’s dead with such certainty?

And yet they’re still worshipping at a sunken shrine to Melandru. It’s pretty obvious that it’s a shrine to a humanoid god, so obviously there’s something leading them to consider there to be a connection.

Frankly, I’m not convinced by one line of dialogue. It could, for instance, be a “Mellaggan wouldn’t have abandoned us, so she must have been killed” thing. Another possibility is that Melandru had a representative who remained in Tyria (similar to the Seventh Reaper) who was “Mellaggan” to that group of quaggan, and that representative did get destroyed by the krait.

Wait, but haven’t the devs themselves stated that Mellaggan is in fact an interpretation of Melandru? Or is it one of those dev comments of questionable authenticity (can’t think of an example right now, but I know for a fact that on at least one occasion I’ve been enlightened about an error in a dev comment)?

They have, and I considered raising it, but it was early enough that they might have changed their minds before release. I also have a feeling it was Colin who said it, so he might simply have got the lore wrong.

Colin said it in a slip of the tongue manner, IIRC, and he was the only one who ever gave the implication (or outright statement) that they were the same being.

As to using the statue of Melandru: that’s one singular case, and it is the very same pastkeeper overseeing the shrine at that statue which says that she is dead.