(edited by nihavel.6592)
[Spoiler] Ancient Dragon (?)
1 2
“being dead” is not zhaitan’s corruption.
that wolf is just dead.
scarlet is just dead.
it’s not a risen wolf. scarlet isn’t turning into a risen (as seen by the fact that she didn’t stand up and start trying to kill us again). hell, zhaitan is dead, the only risen in tyria are the ones that were corrupted two years ago.
and subject alpha is a lab experiment. it’s as “natural” as the weird genetic experiments we humans make in labs.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
“being dead” is not zhaitan’s corruption.
I laughed.
Looking the ‘’The Eternal Alchemy’’ cutscene, i’m pretty sure each Elder Dragon is a champion of a greater entity.
http://it.tinypic.com/r/141839j/8
We have 6 orbs, each for every elder dragon, (blue, green,white, black,red,pink), several empty circle ( maybe unawakened dragon in other lands) and one big in the center that rule the other six.
In the game we have first “cross-corruption” a plant-risen wolf
http://it.tinypic.com/r/mbh1zr/8
and the inquests in coe works for subject alpha
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Subject_Alpha
In the wiki subject alpha use skill from 3 different dragon.Maybe the Ancient dragon (?) have the ability to use every corruption of every dragon to create a definitive minion, and the inquest works to create one in labs.
We can see zaithan corruption on the scarlet corpose.
http://it.tinypic.com/r/2lihe94/8
Maybe scarlet now is corrupted by Mordremoth and zaithan, making a step forward to the first ancient dragon (?) minion.Anyway:
-Zaithan is alive, The black orb is in the cutscene, so it can corrupt the world anymore.Sorry for my rusty english anyway.
I dont think the orbs represent the dragons exactly. I tihnk the orbs represent the magic they use. For instance, instead; each orb is a different type of magic.
Looking the ‘’The Eternal Alchemy’’ cutscene, i’m pretty sure each Elder Dragon is a champion of a greater entity.
http://it.tinypic.com/r/141839j/8
We have 6 orbs, each for every elder dragon, (blue, green,white, black,red,pink), several empty circle ( maybe unawakened dragon in other lands) and one big in the center that rule the other six.
In the game we have first “cross-corruption” a plant-risen wolf
http://it.tinypic.com/r/mbh1zr/8
and the inquests in coe works for subject alpha
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Subject_Alpha
In the wiki subject alpha use skill from 3 different dragon.Maybe the Ancient dragon (?) have the ability to use every corruption of every dragon to create a definitive minion, and the inquest works to create one in labs.
We can see zaithan corruption on the scarlet corpose.
http://it.tinypic.com/r/2lihe94/8
Maybe scarlet now is corrupted by Mordremoth and zaithan, making a step forward to the first ancient dragon (?) minion.Anyway:
-Zaithan is alive, The black orb is in the cutscene, so it can corrupt the world anymore.Sorry for my rusty english anyway.
I dont think the orbs represent the dragons exactly. I tihnk the orbs represent the magic they use. For instance, instead; each orb is a different type of magic.
doesn’t really make sense though. jormag is ice. deep sea dragon is water. they’re the same element.
and hell, in guild wars lore elemental magic all falls under the same category of magic.
while most of the OP is nonsense (no offense), i do think the six orbs are representing the dragons, and what we think is the eternal alchemy is something else. the color coding fits the dragons more than it fits the magic schools of tyria (of which there are really four, not six), and the green one overtaking everything and turning into an eye-like thing that stares at you makes me associate that green orb with mordremoth (given prior descriptions of what scarlet saw in the machine, including her own account, VS what we’ve seen) more than anything else.
on the bright side, that cutscene means we’ll probably stop at six dragons. if and when we’re done with them, we’ll finally be able to move to new lands.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
on the bright side, that cutscene means we’ll probably stop at six dragons. if and when we’re done with them, we’ll finally be able to move to new lands.
Don’t be so sure of that. If and when Anet decides to retcon and introduce even more ED’s, they could just say there were even more orbs in the video that were in colors that human eyes couldn’t comprehend.
KNOW YOUR ROLE, JABRONI!
Tee See
Tee See
on the bright side, that cutscene means we’ll probably stop at six dragons. if and when we’re done with them, we’ll finally be able to move to new lands.
Don’t be so sure of that. If and when Anet decides to retcon and introduce even more ED’s, they could just say there were even more orbs in the video that were in colors that human eyes couldn’t comprehend.
ultraviolet dragon and infrared dragon.
star dragons confirmed.
cantha confirmed.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
Personally? I think the center globe was Tyria. Remember, we were supposed to be seeing the Eternal Alchemy there, and while it makes enough sense for the dragons to be notable parts of it, it would be really weird if they comprised all of it.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Personally? I think the center globe was Tyria. Remember, we were supposed to be seeing the Eternal Alchemy there, and while it makes enough sense for the dragons to be notable parts of it, it would be really weird if they comprised all of it.
“seeing the eternal alchemy” is debatable. scarlet claimed she saw it. my human (why the hell would he know anything about the workings of the eternal alchemy?) claimed he saw it, likely because he recognized what he saw as what scarlet saw, and scarlet, who studied the eternal alchemy, said it looked like that.
still think this is one of those “what the NPC thought it was wasn’t what it really was” situations. the eternal alchemy is too all-encompassing to be reduced to a glorified atom and an infinity drawing that when you squint and look at it from the side kinda looks like a tree.
that would be like “seeing god’s omniscience”. seeing everything that is, was, and will be, in the entire universe. at the same time.
and since our character’s head is decidedly not blown, i think we actually saw a glimpse of something bigger, but decidedly not “the eternal alchemy”. and if the writers were going with “we saw the eternal alchemy”, then i hope they read my post and it convinces them to rewrite the script into something that makes sense.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
I don’t know how you can say it was or wasn’t the eternal alchemy when we don’t know what the eternal alchemy is anyway. And if what Scarlet saw was something else (like say Elder Dragons) how do we know it’s not the same thing?
I don’t know how you can say it was or wasn’t the eternal alchemy when we don’t know what the eternal alchemy is anyway. And if what Scarlet saw was something else (like say Elder Dragons) how do we know it’s not the same thing?
i’m basing the “you can’t ‘see the eternal alchemy’ because that’s preposterous, the eternal alchemy is everything and more” statement on what the asuras say. in fact, i recall at least one asura calling scarlet out on her claim.
and we saw the same thing scarlet saw. you grab her diary and compare her notes with the cutscene, it’s about right. you compare the “what scarlet saw” story with what we saw, it’s about right.
and if the eternal alchemy really is just tyria and a bunch of balls representing each dragon, then asuras really got shafted this patch. the foundation of all asuran knowledge and science, something the most brillant asuran minds can’t summarize, being reduced to something that can be put into a drawing and explained. like i said on another thread, it’s like someone in the real world claiming they invented a machine that lets them see the fabric of spacetime. “yeah guys, 3 dimensions is so last week!”
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
(edited by BrunoBRS.5178)
and we saw the same thing scarlet saw. you grab her diary and compare her notes with the cutscene, it’s about right. you compare the “what scarlet saw” story with what we saw, it’s about right.
Mostly, but I find it interesting that we didn’t see the thorn vine.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Why actually Eternal Alchemy? It’s a philosophy/belief system of only one race. Six Gods got sidelined to make GW2 less human-centric, explaining that most of what we know about Gods were superstitions and wishful thinking. Now we are told that everything Asura says is true? I don’t buy it. It could be fluctuations of Mists, map of Realm of Torment, anything.
I’m going with theory that they saw something and because of lack of knowledge they mistook it for Eternal Alchemy.
The Eternal Alchemy cinematic shows us something very interesting. First of all we see the Pale Tree, who forms the heart of it all, and could just as is easily stand for Tyria (the world). Next we see various colors of magic, dormant. This seems to confirm that the Elder Dragons are indeed forces of nature, and part of the magical balance. Next we see them awaken one by one, in the order that they woke up. But here we see something very odd. This can’t be a goof up on the part of the writers:
The colors start moving in this order:
Red, blue, white, green, purple, black.
However, the dragons woke up in the order:
Primordus, Jormag, Zhaitan, Bubbles, Kralkatorrik, Mordremoth.
It’s especially odd that we see green moving as the fourth, since we know Mordremoth was the last to wake up. Besides, Jormag woke up before Bubbles. So if Jormag is white, and Bubbles is blue, that means they are switched around. Something to consider, is that maybe the dragons started stirring in their sleep much earlier, and perhaps this is what we are being shown. It’s all rather confusing.
The cinematic ends with Mordremoth attacking the Pale Tree / Tyria. This could imply that Mordremoth is the first Elder Dragon to actively attack us. Maybe the other Elder Dragons were just getting settled in, and their real attack is yet to begin.
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
The Eternal Alchemy cinematic shows us something very interesting. First of all we see the Pale Tree, who forms the heart of it all, and could just as is easily stand for Tyria (the world). Next we see various colors of magic, dormant. This seems to confirm that the Elder Dragons are indeed forces of nature, and part of the magical balance. Next we see them awaken one by one, in the order that they woke up. But here we see something very odd. This can’t be a goof up on the part of the writers:
The colors start moving in this order:
Red, blue, white, green, purple, black.However, the dragons woke up in the order:
Primordus, Jormag, Zhaitan, Bubbles, Kralkatorrik, Mordremoth.It’s especially odd that we see green moving as the fourth, since we know Mordremoth was the last to wake up. Besides, Jormag woke up before Bubbles. So if Jormag is white, and Bubbles is blue, that means they are switched around. Something to consider, is that maybe the dragons started stirring in their sleep much earlier, and perhaps this is what we are being shown. It’s all rather confusing.
The cinematic ends with Mordremoth attacking the Pale Tree / Tyria. This could imply that Mordremoth is the first Elder Dragon to actively attack us. Maybe the other Elder Dragons were just getting settled in, and their real attack is yet to begin.
When the blue sphere moved followed by the white sphere, I just automatically reconnected and assumed the blue sphere represented Jormag and the following white sphere represented Bubble.
Many people speculated the Sylvari are elder dragon minions and the Pale Tree is a elder dragon champion. Well, the Pale Tree does have the same prophetic trait as the dragon Glint. She can tell the future or probable futures like Glint has done. They are both known as prophets/seers.
(edited by Avariz.8241)
Many people speculated the Sylvari are elder dragon minions and the Pale Tree is a elder dragon champion. Well, the Pale Tree does have the same prophetic trait as the dragon Glint. She can tell the future or probable futures like Glint has done. They are both known as prophets/seers.
I think that the added information that the Pale Tree is the supposed “center” of the world/magic, and that Mordremoth is attacking her and trying to possibly corrupt her, is more proof that they aren’t connected.
The cinematic ends with Mordremoth attacking the Pale Tree / Tyria. This could imply that Mordremoth is the first Elder Dragon to actively attack us. Maybe the other Elder Dragons were just getting settled in, and their real attack is yet to begin.
Zhaitan assaulted claw island, Vigil keep, Caledon forest, and many other places. The difference with. Mordremoth seems to be ley line and Pale tree related.
and if the eternal alchemy really is just tyria and a bunch of balls representing each dragon, then asuras really got shafted this patch. the foundation of all asuran knowledge and science, something the most brillant asuran minds can’t summarize, being reduced to something that can be put into a drawing and explained. like i said on another thread, it’s like someone in the real world claiming they invented a machine that lets them see the fabric of spacetime. “yeah guys, 3 dimensions is so last week!”
When you’re looking on a ball, you can instantly tell that it’s a ball. But if you’re inside the ball and you can’t look outside the ball it’s way harder to recognize the ball as ball.
That is exactly what happend. Everything is within the “Eternal Alchemy”. So it’s hard to tell how the Eternal Alchemy really looks like. In the cinematic, we got an outside view.
Zhaitan assaulted claw island, Vigil keep, Caledon forest, and many other places. The difference with. Mordremoth seems to be ley line and Pale tree related.
That’s a good point. So maybe the vision isn’t referring to attacks against us, but against Tyria itself. Maybe this means the other dragons will attack Tyria, it’s source of magic, or the Pale Tree as well in the near future, like Mordremoth is doing now.
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
The colors start moving in this order:
Red, blue, white, green, purple, black.However, the dragons woke up in the order:
Primordus, Jormag, Zhaitan, Bubbles, Kralkatorrik, Mordremoth.It’s especially odd that we see green moving as the fourth, since we know Mordremoth was the last to wake up. Besides, Jormag woke up before Bubbles. So if Jormag is white, and Bubbles is blue, that means they are switched around. Something to consider, is that maybe the dragons started stirring in their sleep much earlier, and perhaps this is what we are being shown. It’s all rather confusing.
Regarding the DSD, since Anet is being so vague about it, we can’t really know where to place it.
However I thought of the “it’s when they started stirring” part. But having Mordremoth move fourth barely makes any sense even considering the infamous theory of “the pale tree and the sylvari are dragon minions”.
The red one could be Primordus. He’s the first to awaken, he’s the first (we know) to set his minions to awake him sooner. Jormag being after isn’t too far fetched with Drakkar.
But then, if the pale tree was a champion of Mordremoth (and ignoring that there are other pale trees, other sylvaris and that Ronan got this seed from a cave and then put in Arbor Bay), shouldn’t Mordremoth be the first one to have stirred ?
When we get to Arbor Bay, Primordus attacks are rather recent, as is Svanir getting transformed.
Yet the Pale Tree is already growing. And it doesn’t spawn fruits until after Zhaitan is awake.
And wow, if Mordremoth and Kralk have been stirring before Zhaitan, they really have terrible champions.
However I thought of the “it’s when they started stirring” part. But having Mordremoth move fourth barely makes any sense even considering the infamous theory of “the pale tree and the sylvari are dragon minions”.
I think we can safely ignore that hypothesis anyway, since it has be debunked completely, and the vision shows us Mordremoth and The Pale Tree are two separate entities.
But that still leaves me utterly confused about Mordremoth being the fourth to start moving during the vision. I struggle to find an answer to it, but surely this wasn’t a goof up on the part of the designers? I just can’t come up with a reasonable answer to it, unless the vision is showing us ancient history (but that seems highly unlikely).
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Is there any evidence of DSD awakening (i.e in-game source) ?
Guild Wars 2 Wiki FR contributor
i’m not really in the mindset to think this through, so i’ll just throw some (likely flawed) ideas here and hope it serves for brainstorming:
1- what if what we saw in the machine was a biased perspective? assuming that what we saw was really the eternal alchemy, we saw the pale tree (a being that’s only a couple centuries old) at the center of everything. suspicious and weird. maybe the machine was providing skewed results (you make a machine to find god, it’ll find what you think god would be. same applies for the eternal alchemy), given it was a cooperation between asura and sylvari.
2- what if what we saw was actually the dream? like, not going back to the dream like in the sylvari intro, but seeing the entirety of it? that would explain both the pale tree-centric view, the whispers (“don’t question the dream, we must all play our parts” is something the pale tree tells caithe right before the sylvari PC meets trahearne). that would also make a lot more sense for mordremoth, and not any of the other dragon balls (teehee), to be the one taking the center sphere and corrupting everything (and then turning into a creepy giant eye).
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
Is there any evidence of DSD awakening (i.e in-game source) ?
supposedly, it’s what gave us quaggans, largos, and an abundance of krait.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
However I thought of the “it’s when they started stirring” part. But having Mordremoth move fourth barely makes any sense even considering the infamous theory of “the pale tree and the sylvari are dragon minions”.
I think we can safely ignore that hypothesis anyway, since it has be debunked completely, and the vision shows us Mordremoth and The Pale Tree are two separate entities.
But that still leaves me utterly confused about Mordremoth being the fourth to start moving during the vision. I struggle to find an answer to it, but surely this wasn’t a goof up on the part of the designers? I just can’t come up with a reasonable answer to it, unless the vision is showing us ancient history (but that seems highly unlikely).
maybe all it’s showing is that all “cogs” are now moving, the order is irrelevant.
if it really is the eternal alchemy, we’re seeing a visual representation of everything that’s going on now, not a series of unfolding events. the mordy take-over part can be explained as him trying to tap into your mind (staring into the abyss and the abyss staring back and all that)
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
What I don’t get is that when Ceara went into the first time, she supposedly didn’t see the Eternal Alchemy, but she thought that was it.
Even after her modifications, who can say that she was successful ? Why would she even try to make it better when she thought she had the real deal the first time ?
The Eternal Alchemy cinematic shows us something very interesting. First of all we see the Pale Tree, who forms the heart of it all, and could just as is easily stand for Tyria (the world). Next we see various colors of magic, dormant. This seems to confirm that the Elder Dragons are indeed forces of nature, and part of the magical balance. Next we see them awaken one by one, in the order that they woke up. But here we see something very odd. This can’t be a goof up on the part of the writers:
The colors start moving in this order:
Red, blue, white, green, purple, black.However, the dragons woke up in the order:
Primordus, Jormag, Zhaitan, Bubbles, Kralkatorrik, Mordremoth.It’s especially odd that we see green moving as the fourth, since we know Mordremoth was the last to wake up. Besides, Jormag woke up before Bubbles. So if Jormag is white, and Bubbles is blue, that means they are switched around. Something to consider, is that maybe the dragons started stirring in their sleep much earlier, and perhaps this is what we are being shown. It’s all rather confusing.
The cinematic ends with Mordremoth attacking the Pale Tree / Tyria. This could imply that Mordremoth is the first Elder Dragon to actively attack us. Maybe the other Elder Dragons were just getting settled in, and their real attack is yet to begin.
I don’t think the thing in the center is the Pale Tree or Tyria.
I think it’s the Dream.
The Dream is said to be made of ether and memories, and seems to be very magical and tied to locations of magic. Vorpp suspected that Scarlet’s vision was tied to the Dream as well – though the vision certainly didn’t break any barrier that prevented corruption given that our sylvari PCs would be getting corrupted if so. I think the vision was showing Mordremoth actively attacking the Dream, and the Dream is somehow tied to the life of Tyria itself – I suspect that the rotating rings are meant to be the ley lines/flow of magic.
As to the orb awakening – I noticed that too and found it interesting; it isn’t a mere case of the DSD and Jormag being switched though – Black (Zhaitan per Infinite Coil Reactor) was the last orb to move, and he was third to awaken. If the orbs moving relates to the ED waking, then their color ties would be:
Red-Primordus
Blue-Jormag
White-Zhaitan
Green-DSD
Purple-Kralkatorrik
Black-Mordremoth
Which would then mean that the DSD went into the center… but that seems unlikely since this plot focuses on Mordremoth. So the orbs don’t represent the order of awakening.
Is there any evidence of DSD awakening (i.e in-game source) ?
Not directly. As an in-game source, the best we really have is this guy as the most definitive. There are other implications throughout surrounding the southern quaggan and largos, and we have out of game sources that mention the karka having fled from something that allowed them to recognize dragon minions in Orr, as well as the krait having fled from their homes (deepest trenches of the ocean) in the estimated time of the DSD’s awakening and The Movement (the most explanatory source for DSD lore, how little it is) explaining the DSD awoke in the sea’s deepest parts.
And there was a post by Angel pointing to the DSD’s page as an explanation for why the krait have finally lost a battle (which the krait blog post said otherwise – in other words Angel was pointing out that the blog post was written from a pre-DSD rise viewpoint).
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Vorpp suspected that Scarlet’s vision was tied to the Dream as well – though the vision certainly didn’t break any barrier that prevented corruption given that our sylvari PCs would be getting corrupted if so.
You’re forgetting that the cinematic ends with us, or our field of view, being dragged “into” the green sphere, which could stand for Mordremoth. The NPC’s told me, I was a sylvari, that I started screaming and they pulled me out off the machine. So it could be very possible that our character would’ve been corrupted if the NPC’s wouldn’t have dragged us out.
It might be worth remembering the Jotun telescope in Arah that showed stars being created with the coming of elder dragons. Perhaps Omadd’s machine is less abstract than it first appears and it actually shows these stars/satellites circling the world. It might then be plausible for these satellites to influence the ley lines and other magical forces in the same way that gravity influences waves.
It might be worth remembering the Jotun telescope in Arah that showed stars being created with the coming of elder dragons. Perhaps Omadd’s machine is less abstract than it first appears and it actually shows these stars/satellites circling the world. It might then be plausible for these satellites to influence the ley lines and other magical forces in the same way that gravity influences waves.
If you define “coming” of the elder dragons as awakening of the elder dragons then this wouldn’t hold true atleast for Mordremoth, since he got awakened indirectly through Scarlet. As for the “normal awakening process”, this could hold true if each dragons awakes when ley-lines are heavily influenced. Yet again, all dragons awake at the same time, which means that if ley-lines are the key to awake a dragon, they all must’ve been influenced, which implies, following your suggestion, that there must’ve been a lot new stars at the same time. Furthermore, this means that this process would reoccur periodically every thousand years or so.
The vision from Omadd machine begins with the ‘Eternal Alchemy’ as six colored spheres surrounding a central sphere. Gears and wheels around the central sphere spun and turned like an astroglobe and then faded from view.
The player character came into view and approached toward the ‘Eternal Alchemy’.
The Pale Tree icon appeared initially as a separate entity from the ‘Eternal Alchemy’. The Pale Tree icon through various stages integrated into and finally becoming a part of the central sphere. This could mean the Sylvari and the Pale Tree were not originally from the Tyrian cosmos. They were from the ‘Dream Realm’.
If Kralkatoric coming close to death and serious injured by Destiny Edge and therefore is inactive right now but subsequently would recovered and would become active again would explain his sphere of interest coming to life as the fifth sphere in the vision.
As to the last sphere being Zhaitan’s, well he is dead right now but if he were to come to life again after Kralkatoric then that would explain Zhaitan’s sphere coming last in the vision.
The important thing in this vision is Mordremoth and his sphere of interest predominate Tyria while the other spheres come and go from view.
(edited by Avariz.8241)
I have a theory, one I don’t see floating around too much.
It assumes the spheres lighting up are in fact the order of dragons awakening. It also assumes they awaken in sequence, meaning that the GREEN sphere is in fact Zhaitan, and the center sphere we can assume is the Pale tree/Tyria/Whatever we as protagonists are trying to protect.
What if what was portrayed was not necessarily symbolic of a dragon wrecking havoc on Tyria, but instead as the OP pointed out, the collective magic they possessed returning to the world? I won’t go SO far as to say we might be recreating an ancient entity of the summation of magic itself though.
Two things come to mind when I consider Zhaitan’s demise and how it affects Tyria, the return of all that magic. Although I hate to relate to it, ‘Tequatl gained strength after the defeat of Zhaitan, reasons unknown’.
(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_champion)
I believe there was speculation about how the release of magic from Zhaitan back then caused such an evolution in Tequatl. But even if that wasn’t the case, and the continuity assumes Tequatl evolved during the offensive in Orr as also dictated on the wiki (It never said the offensive stopped after Zhaitan’s death though, there are a LOT of risen around.) I have another piece that supports my theory.
Everyone knows the Evolved Jungle Wurm, right? That lovely creature dwelling just north of Sparkfly on the borders of Zhaitan’s reach (Of course, we can find risen here and there north of the zones, but the concentration is mostly Orr and its closest neighbors). Well, we can assume the Scarlet thumpers just disturbed this majestic, clearly normal creature from its nests in Bloodtide, or go with my suggestion.
The Evolved Jungle Wurm had gotten its ‘Evolved’ tag from absorbing magic from Zhaitan’s defeat as well! Taking a leap and assuming that the unnatural Wurms are minions of Mordremoth, would it be so far as to assume his minions could take in the ambient magic and gain strength from it?
This is where it gets interesting, because I think you all might understand where I am going with this. Everytime we kill an elder dragon, we release its energy onto Tyria, and the other Elder Dragons will gobble it up. We already know the dragon minions do not necessarily like each other (not that they had minds to care enough what they attack), but I like to think it as a cold war between them. WE, are effectively killing them off one by one, reducing their adversaries and making them stronger till there is one left.
The Ley Lines are an added bonus, and a source for the stalemate between the dragons. However it wouldn’t be too far fetched to say we are indirectly helping the other dragons as we kill them each one at a time. A scenario where any given dragon is the last one alive, with a world brimming with unsanctioned magic…
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
What I don’t get is that when Ceara went into the first time, she supposedly didn’t see the Eternal Alchemy, but she thought that was it.
Even after her modifications, who can say that she was successful ? Why would she even try to make it better when she thought she had the real deal the first time ?
An Asura scientist said it was impossible. But scientists aren’t always right. Asura scientists seem to be right about 53% of the time. And about 78% of the time they’re full of it.
What I don’t get is that when Ceara went into the first time, she supposedly didn’t see the Eternal Alchemy, but she thought that was it.
Even after her modifications, who can say that she was successful ? Why would she even try to make it better when she thought she had the real deal the first time ?
An Asura scientist said it was impossible. But scientists aren’t always right. Asura scientists seem to be right about 53% of the time. And about 78% of the time they’re full of it.
60% of statistics are made-up.
also, i see what you did there.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
I have a theory, one I don’t see floating around too much.
It assumes the spheres lighting up are in fact the order of dragons awakening. It also assumes they awaken in sequence, meaning that the GREEN sphere is in fact Zhaitan, and the center sphere we can assume is the Pale tree/Tyria/Whatever we as protagonists are trying to protect.
What if what was portrayed was not necessarily symbolic of a dragon wrecking havoc on Tyria, but instead as the OP pointed out, the collective magic they possessed returning to the world? I won’t go SO far as to say we might be recreating an ancient entity of the summation of magic itself though.
Two things come to mind when I consider Zhaitan’s demise and how it affects Tyria, the return of all that magic. Although I hate to relate to it, ‘Tequatl gained strength after the defeat of Zhaitan, reasons unknown’.
(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_champion)I believe there was speculation about how the release of magic from Zhaitan back then caused such an evolution in Tequatl. But even if that wasn’t the case, and the continuity assumes Tequatl evolved during the offensive in Orr as also dictated on the wiki (It never said the offensive stopped after Zhaitan’s death though, there are a LOT of risen around.) I have another piece that supports my theory.
Everyone knows the Evolved Jungle Wurm, right? That lovely creature dwelling just north of Sparkfly on the borders of Zhaitan’s reach (Of course, we can find risen here and there north of the zones, but the concentration is mostly Orr and its closest neighbors). Well, we can assume the Scarlet thumpers just disturbed this majestic, clearly normal creature from its nests in Bloodtide, or go with my suggestion.
The Evolved Jungle Wurm had gotten its ‘Evolved’ tag from absorbing magic from Zhaitan’s defeat as well! Taking a leap and assuming that the unnatural Wurms are minions of Mordremoth, would it be so far as to assume his minions could take in the ambient magic and gain strength from it?
This is where it gets interesting, because I think you all might understand where I am going with this. Everytime we kill an elder dragon, we release its energy onto Tyria, and the other Elder Dragons will gobble it up. We already know the dragon minions do not necessarily like each other (not that they had minds to care enough what they attack), but I like to think it as a cold war between them. WE, are effectively killing them off one by one, reducing their adversaries and making them stronger till there is one left.
The Ley Lines are an added bonus, and a source for the stalemate between the dragons. However it wouldn’t be too far fetched to say we are indirectly helping the other dragons as we kill them each one at a time. A scenario where any given dragon is the last one alive, with a world brimming with unsanctioned magic…
It’s not a bad idea, but it is flawed. Though Anet has played around with the particular aspects of magic between GW1 and 2 one theme has been reoccuring in the GW2 timeline: that there are different TYPES of magic in existence. I think they have been eluding to the notion that the eternal alchemy, dragon aspects, Elder Dragons and even the magic of the human gods are all one in the same.
Tequatl was able to absorb Zhaitan’s magic because it is a construct of death or “undead” magic. That would make it an ideal conduit for collecting and utilizing Zhaitans energy. I don’t think that after will kill more and more dragons, the others will become more powerful. I suppose that could make for an interesting story element, but it would be inconsistent with what we have seen so far.
It may be possible that the Elder Dragons consume and convert magic into their own particular type, but I think all this Eternal Alchemy business is implying that all magic in Tyria is works in tandem with one another and balance the others out. They’re so evenly positioned on the drawing that we saw, even while they circle around the pale tree.
I think the Pale Tree represents the earthy spirit of Tyria itself and the magic of the dragons move around it constantly vying for power, but never achieving it and never really taking any of it away from any of the others. I think the Green ball of light is meant to represent Mordremoth’s hunger for corrupting Tyria itself, but doesn’t necessarily mean that it can succeed. The destructive hungers of the Elder Dragons maybe what keeps each of them in check. They are all equally powerful and cannot ultimately out match the others. And while Zhaitan may have been destroyed his magic did not disappear and was acquired by one of his minions, thus starting the cycle all over again.
@Zhaneel: While I also agree that each dragon likely has its own type of magic, thus making it hard to believe any Elder Dragon could simply take on another’s magic, there is another facet we seem to forget.
Recall that Zhaitan would feed on Magical Artifacts of all sorts, we know that the dragons will consume magic regardless of its origin. I have reason to believe, that there IS a way for Elder Dragons to consume the magic of their brethren, but the key is whether or not the dragon whose magic is being consumed is alive to stop it from doing so.
We even see a similar instance occur during the most recent episode at Fort Concordia, where a Priory caravan gets attacked from carrying an old magical and important relic. Dragons probably eat any magic and convert it to their own as long as its not their brothers…sisters…you know.
What if, when a dragon dies, its magic loses its ‘type’ and becomes ambient, capable of being consumed? The ambient magic will add onto Tyria itself, making it more fertile for other dragons to grow their power.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
After reading Konig’s arguments, I’m in complete agreement with him, I think the center sphere represents the Dream. It makes sense too, because we are first shown the Pale Tree, and then we dive into it, to reveal the final shot. So the Pale Tree is a channel through which we access the Dream, and it is the Dream that is being assaulted by Mordremoth. I think it’s safe to assume the green sphere is Mordy, considering the focus of the current story, and the fact that mordy has his vines all over Tyria at the moment.
I’m still wondering if the order of the spheres is an indication of anything at all. If the vision is not the Eternal Alchemy, but the Dream instead, then the spheres should be viewed as mental representations too perhaps. From that perspective, maybe the spheres do not show the physical awakening of the dragons, but the mental.
“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
So…for the sake of it, I managed to pick up this lovely bit of information from Reddit with concern to what we saw. In game, we can look at the story journal summary for episode 2 and it will say that what the orbs represent are the Elder Dragons and Pale Tree.
http://i.imgur.com/eFuKw9G.jpg
Just thought to clear the air on this one.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
It’s terrible how now, even with what my character says, I can’t help but think “yeah…first-person bias, that’s probably going to get proven wrong in a few weeks”.
I am already imagine my character sitting around the campfire, writing in his journal:
After cutting vine after vine, we have finally broken Mordremoths hold on us. As we are now ready to attack him directly, the Pale Tree asked me to visit him again for an important message.
The Pale Tree has shown me a vision, much clearer and, luckily, safer then the one I was able to experience with Omadds machine. What I saw, I did not really expect. The whole spheres, the suposed Eldar Dragons… they were nothing but…
And here the journal ends… wait for the conclusion next season…
So…for the sake of it, I managed to pick up this lovely bit of information from Reddit with concern to what we saw. In game, we can look at the story journal summary for episode 2 and it will say that what the orbs represent are the Elder Dragons and Pale Tree.
http://i.imgur.com/eFuKw9G.jpgJust thought to clear the air on this one.
the journal says we saw the pale tree (which we did), not that the pale tree is one of the orbs. in fact, the orbs are specifically mentioned after the pale tree. we saw the pale tree AND some orbs (that represent dragons).
on a side note,
sad that konig got all the credit when i posted the dream idea first ;-;
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
oh, and as for the awakening of the orbs, i really do think people should stop thinking about the order. there are many artistic reasons for them to be still at first, and only start moving one at a time. first, it gives us a clear count of how many orbs we have in total. second, it gives us that exact same image scarlet had in her hideout. third, if they all blinked and started moving at the same time, it would’ve looked weird, aesthetically speaking.
so yeah, i think the order of the orbs “awakening” is purely an aesthetic choice. i mean, every single theory that you try to fit is full of holes and requires so many absurd mental gymnastics to try and make sense that it’s obvious they’re not really right.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
“being dead” is not zhaitan’s corruption.
I laughed.
Although it would have made the battle for Orr a lot more anti-climatic.
Why actually Eternal Alchemy? It’s a philosophy/belief system of only one race.
It’s the closest thing to physics they have in Tyria. It’s like physics but for more magic so you get to do more cool things with it narratively speaking.
Zhaitan assaulted claw island, Vigil keep, Caledon forest, and many other places. The difference with. Mordremoth seems to be ley line and Pale tree related.
That’s a good point. So maybe the vision isn’t referring to attacks against us, but against Tyria itself. Maybe this means the other dragons will attack Tyria, it’s source of magic, or the Pale Tree as well in the near future, like Mordremoth is doing now.
Yes, but the lore so far indicates that the dragons don’t actually attack Tyria or seek to destroy Tyria, they suck up all the magic and to do that they corrupt, create vast armies and do a lot of damage. I’m guessing ANets going to retcon things and you’re probably be right, but still as it stands now we have no proof that the EDs care about anything other than getting a good meal before they go to sleep.
Is there any evidence of DSD awakening (i.e in-game source) ?
supposedly, it’s what gave us quaggans, largos, and an abundance of krait.
It’s never explicitly stated but yeah, something evil is going on in the deep see so probably deep see dragon.
Are we even sure that the voice that calls itself the Pale Tree is infact the Pale Tree?
We may have yet another Elder Dragon(one of Light) on our hands trying to corrupt the Pale Tree’s children by giving them the Dream and getting interrupted by Mordremoth/The Nightmare cutting in……
Are we even sure that the voice that calls itself the Pale Tree is infact the Pale Tree?
We may have yet another Elder Dragon(one of Light) on our hands trying to corrupt the Pale Tree’s children by giving them the Dream and getting interrupted by Mordremoth/The Nightmare cutting in……
except that’s wishful thinking, and goes against all evidence we actually have.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
How does the notion that an Elder Dragon is posing as the will of the Pale Tree in all known go against evidence?
Malyck’s tree dosen’t seem to have a Dream…..
How does the notion that an Elder Dragon is posing as the will of the Pale Tree in all known go against evidence?
Malyck’s tree dosen’t seem to have a Dream…..
you’re coming up with things out of thin air, that’s your problem. you’re not basing your claim on anything.
i can claim that malyck doesn’t have a dream because an elder dragon of dreams ate his dream and that’s why he’s amnesiac. doesn’t make it any more true than your claims of “the pale tree is an impostor and there’s totally a 7th dragon that makes sorting the gods-are-dragons theory easier!”.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
So you meant absence of evidence….. Yes my theory is merely based on the OP’s assumption that the central orb is an Elder Dragon……
Unfortunately we have no idea what the center orb actually means…..
All we can do is preform Wild Mass Guessing until we get the answers in the upcoming Living Story releases…
(edited by Mickey Frogeater.1470)
and we saw the same thing scarlet saw. you grab her diary and compare her notes with the cutscene, it’s about right. you compare the “what scarlet saw” story with what we saw, it’s about right.
Mostly, but I find it interesting that we didn’t see the thorn vine.
I wondered if you would if you did it on a sylvari. I don’t have one of appropriate level to try it.
EDIT:
The NPC’s told me, I was a sylvari, that I started screaming and they pulled me out off the machine. So it could be very possible that our character would’ve been corrupted if the NPC’s wouldn’t have dragged us out.
Dangit, I need to replay. I think they just mentioned my (human) character’s hair standing up.
Ruse Torrent (elementalist) on JQ
trixnotes tumblr: quick hits of lore | personal tumblr (some other GW2 stuff)
trixnotes tumblr: quick hits of lore | personal tumblr (some other GW2 stuff)
(edited by Rainshine.5493)
Are we even sure that the voice that calls itself the Pale Tree is infact the Pale Tree?
We may have yet another Elder Dragon(one of Light) on our hands trying to corrupt the Pale Tree’s children by giving them the Dream and getting interrupted by Mordremoth/The Nightmare cutting in……
it would be more interesting, maybe a “good” dragon.
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