Guild Wars 2

Heart of Thorns has been released and some run around for adventures, the new lore, or just a challenge.

The expansion is big and just playing the prolog I got a great feeling of immersion (though some event in the open world totally pulled me out)

It has been a long time, the game had me in awe and now I am really feeling it again. The feeling of excitement and wanting to know what is going on.

Since there will be many big things that actually deem their own theads, I wanted to open this one for the little things. Some musings and maybe some shout outs to the writers.

Starting off, I noticed some Sylvari hate coming from Majory. She sounded rather cold As we encountered Laranthier.

Also, my male human went totaly Shattner as he said: “Let`s kill … another… Elder Dragon.”

So, any small things you notice, let`s collect them here and see if maybe something bigger will come of it.

I like it so far, though I’ve only made it through the first “act” as of now. If it continues to be like this it might be on par with Nightfall, which was imo the high point of GW’s stories.

Many kudos to the writing team and how it was executed in game with our characters speaking.

Only 1/3 way through. I mean, why does ANET hate female Norn so much? In the Zhaitan war, female norn characters got killed more than anyone else, and now you murdered Eir right in the beginning?

Leah Hoyer.9382:

Thanks for starting this thread.

For my part, I really want to give a shout out to the entire Narrative team, as well as all of the Designers, Artists, Animators, Audio and Tech people who worked with us to hopefully make a more immersive, stronger story than we’ve ever made before. I’m really proud of this team and am grateful to have been a part of Heart of Thorns.

I look forward to hearing people’s comments.

You felt the need to butcher Eir. Any comments I could make are bannable and unprintable.

Went through the first act and there are several things that don`t really click with me.
Mind you, this is nitpicking in some regards.

Also:

Spoiler

Negatives:
- The pace is way too fast. We rush through every encounter be it enemy or friend. We meet someone, have a little adventure and then we say goodbye, only to meet the next. We don`t settle down (in the story) with anyone for a little while, so far (Itzel or the pact in that case.) and establish a real foothold.

- Where is the awe? The characters don`t react to anything really and if, they brush it away. Dangerous enviroment? Hey, we are seasoned adventurerers, we don`t care. Rytlocks new power? Ah cool, we ask him one or two times, but that`s it. Still keeping it a mystery. New races? Itzel, Nutlock or Exalted? Yeah, hello my friend. Would you help us in the fight against Mordremoth?

- Not enough dialog. I have a big group around me most of the time, but many of them are silent. Often there are really just one or two talking and then it is just about the current objective. There is not enough background chatter, to feel natural.

- Eirs dead was obvious and a hated development since the reveal of the DH. If that is your backstory for the class then please go back to the drawingboard. I don`t care. it is not on belinda level, but still bad.
While she was good enough to fight back against Faolain, she just stood there and accepted her fate against the dragon, even though help was close. Yes she wanted to give Braham a sign that it is okay, but it just felt weird and forced.

Now for the good stuff:

- Love the many cutzenes

- Faolain is creepy

- Finaly i am not the Boss anymore

- Love the whole art and sound direction.

- Some good suprises in the level design and the gameelements.

- Love Ibli

Thats for now, since I am pleased overall, aside from my negative points.

Edit: Goodguy Glint, doesn`t spoil the sith eldar dragons minions in her trials…. Seriously? I thought she knows all? Or do exalted don`t like water based enemies?

MatthewMedina.5419:

The pace is deliberate for this expansion, so some of the other things you mentioned (lack of awe, shorter dialogs) are tied to that. We wanted to set the tone to be one of utmost urgency…a race against time to get your friends back before the worst can happen. That informed a lot of our decisions, and while I too appreciate a more languidly paced story and more dialog (provided it’s interesting), I can tell you we had a lot of discussions on this back and forth on the team to find what we felt confident was the “sweet spot” between too little exposition and not enough.

Eir’s death – This was definitely not motivated by the decision to have an appropriate backstory for the guardian elite specialization. In fact to my recollection, I think Jon Peters took this plot point which we knew early on as inspiration and ran with it so if anything story helped give rise to the Dragon Hunter and not the other way around. Eir’s death is also hampered somewhat here by our Teen rating, because we really wanted to show just how badly Faolain’s attack had left Eir, but we’re just unable to show copious amounts of blood and gore. The idea though is that there was no time for anyone to help her in this situation…she was dying, and she knew it. Eir had but a moment to choose between a slow, painful death as her lungs filled with blood, or a legend’s death facing her end defiantly and head on.

just a suggestion – maybe put dev post spoilers in spoiler tags? I was flicking through the dev tracker, and the spoiler warning there’s not particularly noticeable, and it’d be a shame for this to happen to other people too.

MatthewMedina.5419:

The pace is deliberate for this expansion, so some of the other things you mentioned (lack of awe, shorter dialogs) are tied to that. We wanted to set the tone to be one of utmost urgency…a race against time to get your friends back before the worst can happen. That informed a lot of our decisions, and while I too appreciate a more languidly paced story and more dialog (provided it’s interesting), I can tell you we had a lot of discussions on this back and forth on the team to find what we felt confident was the “sweet spot” between too little exposition and not enough.

Eir’s death – This was definitely not motivated by the decision to have an appropriate backstory for the guardian elite specialization. In fact to my recollection, I think Jon Peters took this plot point which we knew early on as inspiration and ran with it so if anything story helped give rise to the Dragon Hunter and not the other way around. Eir’s death is also hampered somewhat here by our Teen rating, because we really wanted to show just how badly Faolain’s attack had left Eir, but we’re just unable to show copious amounts of blood and gore. The idea though is that there was no time for anyone to help her in this situation…she was dying, and she knew it. Eir had but a moment to choose between a slow, painful death as her lungs filled with blood, or a legend’s death facing her end defiantly and head on.

Thanks for the clarifications.

Yeah, I also thought that was what you were going for, but the thing is just that they just took too many things for granted (again, first act. However even the exalted were handled as: “hey cool, something glowing.”) On the other hand, this is a magical world. Still some kind of reaction from anyone would have been nice, aside from: “hey cool. now let`s go further.”
Might be just my personal gripe, though.

On Eir and Faolain.
Thanks for that bit of information. I didn`t thought of the teen rating. i know you had to make some compromises, but still. I thought it was unneccesary, since I believe as long as there are storys to tell, you shouldn`t kill off a character.
As i don`t know how the story progresses at the moment (kitten bugs -_- ) I won`t say she is now a stepping stone for Braham, but it just feels that way a little.

I just wish she would have some kind of more “meaningfull” death. by that I don`t mean her death isn`t tragic and her deeds in that final moments are great, however for a story about a legend the whole things was just too smooth. I just wished we could have seen her doing or trying something more. She just gave up too quick (after harming Faolain, which was awesome).
I might need to watch that szene again, though.

So this is partly the internet ruining the story for me because of a relatively new meme, but I got thrown out of it nonetheless. So it’s not your fault, it’s just a matter of the internet zeitgeist and the time the expansion came out.
PRESS F TO PAY RESPECTS/HONOR EIR.God I had real tears just before then I saw that honor eir popup and I ended up laughing and annoyed that the immersion broke. I mean it's not your fault, a year ago no one would have associated that meme with it, but god did it ruin a good moment.

MatthewMedina.5419:

Gray – suggestion noted. Original post now in spoiler tag just in case people missed the thread title. Sorry for that. :-)

not a problem. I’m not too fussed about spoilers, but I know some people can be.

and thanks for the quick reply.

MatthewMedina.5419:

The pace is deliberate for this expansion, so some of the other things you mentioned (lack of awe, shorter dialogs) are tied to that. We wanted to set the tone to be one of utmost urgency…a race against time to get your friends back before the worst can happen. That informed a lot of our decisions, and while I too appreciate a more languidly paced story and more dialog (provided it’s interesting), I can tell you we had a lot of discussions on this back and forth on the team to find what we felt confident was the “sweet spot” between too little exposition and not enough.

Eir

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- This was definitely not motivated by the decision to have an appropriate backstory for the guardian elite specialization. In fact to my recollection, I think Jon Peters took this plot point which we knew early on as inspiration and ran with it so if anything story helped give rise to the Dragon Hunter and not the other way around. Eir’s death is also hampered somewhat here by our Teen rating, because we really wanted to show just how badly Faolain’s attack had left Eir, but we’re just unable to show copious amounts of blood and gore. The idea though is that there was no time for anyone to help her in this situation…she was dying, and she knew it. Eir had but a moment to choose between a slow, painful death as her lungs filled with blood, or a legend’s death facing her end defiantly and head on.

I cannot believe I am reading this. So, you regret not being able to add more gore and blood to this horrid contrived death of a beloved, iconic Character.

Seriously?

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I cannot believe I am reading this. So, you regret not being able to add more gore and blood to this horrid contrived death of a beloved, iconic Character.

Seriously?

I think it’s more – without the blood and gore, you don’t realise how badly they were injured, and so you might think they could’ve been saved when they couldn’t have.

The Death Of Eir me deeply … Marked.
And I admit to not having had much fear Faolain before. Once transformed … It just scared me. I just scream like a little girl.

Overall, even without blood … The scene of faolin and Eir … Whoa …
I had so much trouble at that moment.
Just to have regularly helped my sister-in her nursing studies, I knew Eir was lost … argl. I still have tears in my eyes …

Sooo uhm, yeah, about that impaling… . Just one thing.. Why make Faolain as a matter of dragon’s interest ( via that first HoT trailer after s2 finale where she was in the center of Mordremoth’s supposed eye) and then end her in that way? Unless she will return in Mordrem form. That gives a question, what happens to NC now?

I’m done with most of Act 3, well the Taimi lab mission was interesting, but can we PLS find something REALLY useful after such a long run rather than “the dragons got weakness”?

Can I just say I love the ambient conversation in tarir where the priory scholar says at first she thought the exalted were related to mursaat.

As for everything so far. I would love if there were little Easter eggs about what happened in novas, and where chakk are from.

I think you have done an amazing job!
Rata Novus is gorgeous .. I had my little emotion Asura fan. I hope so much that you put us asuras other cities in the tyrie pronfondeurs. even Jumping Puzzle! Always more labs \ o / This breed deserves so much his moment of glory.

Besides, do you have plans for the halls of asuras guilds? (and other breeds)

Frankly, the frames are interesting, dark and intriguing. I like the change between Zaithan, and new stories.

I still get chills since the change of Faolain …

I even thought that it was his body that served as a marionette .. but .. Irk! My asura RP have about-turn, just by seeing the Faolian face output of the cave.
Mes cheveux se sont dressés sur mon crâne de peur…

I hope you will continue! It’s awesome!

A question regarding

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

A question regarding

Destiny’s Edge

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So, now that we have either Logan or Zojja die, what is the canonical state of affairs? I suppose we will never see them or hear of them again in stories in the future, but they are kind of big-deal adventurers. Logan in particular is an important public figure. How do you think this will be handled?

What? When does this happen? I played though the whole story and none of them died…

Muchacho.2390:

What? When does this happen? I played though the whole story and none of them died…

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

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Where you chase after Faoline? Don’t you get to choose between having to go help Zojja or Logan? I did that mission yesterday, Zojja died.

And she didn’t die, She was unconscious.

Humm, maybe I was left with the wrong impression. Fair enough.

Aye, I choose to try to save her first, got the same thing for Logan.

From a screenshot I’ve seen it would seem that Mordremoth was just a ancient Jungle Drake(smaller than winged Dragons yet bigger than ordinary Drakes) and practically powerless against a small group rushing into his sanctum and killing him.

He was The Man Behind the Curtain in the end and had no actual power to back up his threat to Tyria with only his minions being the actual threat.

Funny how Drakes can be Elder Dragons eh? Guess it’s no surprise they were killed by weapons of Dragon Slaying in the first Guild Wars.

Also interesting how the original art for Mordremoth had him look more similar to those Dragon Moss instead of the Jungle plant Sylvari and Mordrem…..

That was Mordremoth’s art right?…….

It would be quite annoying to have to face a larger Stone Moss Dragon that has less absorbed Magic & control over it’s minions than Mordremoth yet more physical power.

Just finished the final story mission and overall I am very impressed and happy with how the story was told. I did feel it was a little bit rushed, but I don’t think that detracted too much from my experience.

One thing, though. I really would have liked to see more involvement from the Exalted. They’re just kinda there with the egg, and that’s it. For creatures that are created solely to fight against Elder Dragons, I would have expected them to be there for some of the battles.

I’m also a bit confused by the final mission -

Mike.7263:

She deserved better.

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Eir Stegalkin, leader of Destiny’s Edge, who bravely battled both Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan, falls to a mere minion with fear on her face and no weapon in her hand.

She deserved so much better.

Tipper.6973:

Just finished the final story mission and overall I am very impressed and happy with how the story was told. I did feel it was a little bit rushed, but I don’t think that detracted too much from my experience.

One thing, though. I really would have liked to see more involvement from the Exalted. They’re just kinda there with the egg, and that’s it. For creatures that are created solely to fight against Elder Dragons, I would have expected them to be there for some of the battles.

I’m also a bit confused by the final mission -

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Was the big lizard guy we kill actually Modremoth? Or just an avatar? Does he even have a physical form? I would have liked to see a big dragon dude die, for some closure. The dragon from Season 2 was a better “Jungle Dragon” than that thing. I’m also disappointed that there was no conclusion / fanfare after defeating him. It’s like, woohoo you killed an elder dragon. Now get lost and receive no recognition. What gives?

Looks more like a bipedal Drake the size of a Giganticus Lupus than a lizard.

Drakes are all over the game and all of them are Dragons as the weapons of Dragon Slaying in the original Guild Wars have shown.

Mordremoth is the Elder Drake of Mind and Plants. His intelligence was the only thing going for him rather than any real power. Unfortunately for him his intelligence failed to consider that we’d rush through the front door of his sanctum and kill him.

He focused too much on the guy who Glint intended to take his place to come up with any real plan and payed with his life.

If he had focused on a giant plant avatar that looked more impressive than Zhaitan and sent it across Tyria to cause trouble he would have distracted the Pact from his real location(a Drake hiding in the part of the Dream overlapping Dragon’s Stand controlling the Mordrem) and won but instead chose to target a easily defeated rival over the bigger threat and died because of it.

Rytlock’s story most likely is the real story of Heart of Thorns and Mordremoth is merely the opening act.

Raids are part of the Expansion let’s not forget and they will reveal alot more than the Elder Drake of Plants and Mind who thought that hiding within the part of the Dream overlapping Dragon’s Stand and making his corruption into his avatar would save him which it didn’t.

I’d like to chime in that I just saw the world boss / event in the final zone and…

Also, I have to give it up for some funny moments in general:

- Norn Savage’s comments when directing you to Taimi were just great.
- If you take the two sylvari with you to the final confrontation, well Rytlock makes a funny ‘practical comment’ about it.

I just finished the new personal story, so here’s my point of view about it. Don’t read if you haven’t finished the story yet.

I agree with a lot of what Shiren.9532 said a few posts up. Especially about Eir’s death and Faolains.

Both deaths felt INCREDIBLY cheap. I didn’t have as much of a problem with cliches, cliches work sometimes and are relevant. Real life can be cliche at times so I have no beef. Knocking off major characters with unresolved issues without furthering the plot in any major way is just unnecessary though. Maybe its realistic to war, but thats just a bad excuse.

My other major isssue was with the Rata Novus arc. We literally spend an entire 1/4 of the game discovering an ancient city to find out it has a weakness! Are you kidding? We figured that out on are own and overall didn’t affect the story.

Other stuff that peeved me off:
1) All DE members and Trahearne were barely in the game whatsoever besides rytlock
2) Caithes reasoning for not talking to you (because I could only trust myself) was horrendous
3) Rytlock in walking 100 miles couldn’t explain wtf happened to him
4) Exalted were another plot line that never went anywhere
5) Never got to see some legendary dragon (but w/e)

The only thing I liked was seeing the order member in the final battle. That was a really nice callback and actual hit an emotional chord with me (The ONLY time in the entire HoT story)

Edit:
Just wanted to add, despite GW2s original personal story issues I much preferred it.

Ah, yeah, I also felt like you relied to much on voiced scenes.
Most of the time, there were NPCs around me, but I couldn’t talk to them outside of their voiced scenes. What about dialog boxes, so I can learn more stuff ? Every NPC in the story instances should have a dialog box, you don’t have to fear adding the dialog boxes just because you know people prefer voiced stuff. It would have been a nice touch.
I really missed hanging around and trying to talk to everybody or check every object, like I could in the Priory Living Story instance. :/

Edit : nnngh sorry I can’t write properly in English.

Spoiler
Just a few points:
-Really loved the story in general, and I can’t wait for the Season 3. It was also nice hearing my voice again.
-The Norn Savage was the best.
-I liked the Sylvari version of the story, but of course there could have been more Mordremoth. :P
-Braham looks really wierd bald. I get why, but still.
-And rip Trahearne/Eir/Faolain/Etc..

But I am also hoping that the Season 3 fleshes out more of the plot lines from the ps. It would also be nice to see what happened with Malyck.

I just want to tell Arenanet that GW2 used to be my favorite game. Not only among MMOs, btw. It was so interesting and beautiful and the plot was so great, I couldn’t stop playing. But then I paid 50$ for Heart of Thorns expecting a lot of fun and adventures. I don’t know if I want my money back or pay you more for fixing one thing that is very important for me.
Trahearne's fateYou know, I can take Eir’s death. But what you did to Trahearne (who was my very special, my favorite character *EVER*)… I was hoping all that time that you, who claimed that he was your favorite character too, let us save him. Why not? You didn’t kill Marjory because people liked her! Why is Trahearne any different? There’re a lot of people who like him. _I_ love him to death. He was my only reason to buy HoT. Please, don’t tell me “he died hero” or anything of this bullkitten. I don’t need this “adventure”. I don’t need that stupid sword! I just want my favorite salad to be okay. But no, you didn’t even give him a chance like Logan and Zojja. In the end I paid 50$ for my ruined mental health (I can’t stop crying for 2 days) and I’m not sure if I ever play your game again. I don’t want to. I don’t need it. It hurts too much. There were times when this game helped me to beat my depression, but this time it caused it. You know what’s funny? You’ve changed names of stupid dyes because some people weren’t happy about them, but I’m sure you’re not going to give Trahearne a second chance because of people who genuine like him. You always were known as developers who listened to your players, but this time it seems you’ve been listening only that part of fandom who wanted to kill Trahearne for the kitten sword. Well done. Thank you so much. I literally hate you for that.

I agree with you as well on that Ginora, I liked him also.

Tipper.6973:

I’d like to chime in that I just saw the world boss / event in the final zone and…

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I’m satisfied now! Because Mordremoth does, in fact, have a large jungledragon-esque body he was in control of. In the personal story we basically killed his brain, while his body was “everywhere” else, including the giant world boss. The real Mordremoth fight occurs in the final zone, IMO.

I also like to think the two fights are happening at the same time – pact vs his body, player vs his brain. It would explain why he seemed distracted.

Ginora and Zalani, I feel the same.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Tipper.6973:

I’d like to chime in that I just saw the world boss / event in the final zone and…

Show Spoiler

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I’m satisfied now! Because Mordremoth does, in fact, have a large jungledragon-esque body he was in control of. In the personal story we basically killed his brain, while his body was “everywhere” else, including the giant world boss. The real Mordremoth fight occurs in the final zone, IMO.

I also like to think the two fights are happening at the same time – pact vs his body, player vs his brain. It would explain why he seemed distracted.

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The fight against the Mouth of Mordremoth is no different from the fight against the Mouth of Zhaitan who is just a Dragon Champion and not Zhaitan himself. Of course it’s logical for an Elder Dragon to have it’s Mouth type Champion funnel the Magic it’s devoured into the part of the Dream where Mordremoth’s real body is located since the Mouths of Zhaitan are next to Zhaitan’s lair in Arah.

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Trahearne’s death was obviously fan service to the people who complained about his being like Kormir and wanted him dead. Of course considering the complaints about Kormir who wants to assume that Kormir herself is going to die in a later Expansion?

Now I’d just like to see what happens next, because new plots have opened up. As for MMO, story was okay. It wasn’t Ulduar, but I enjoyed it.

Ah and big shoutout to whoever created music for the last fight. It had a strong Witcher vibe in it

Yeah, the Rata Novus bit seems pretty pointless, in hindsight. “Mordremoth has a weakness! We don’t know what it is, but let’s charge straight into his lair and hope for the best!”

Not only that, but now I’m left wondering — what was Zhaitan’s weakness? We just blew him up with cannons. Seemed to be very effective.

Hopefully they will do more with Rata Novus in the future. It should be a VERY rich lore location. The little tidbits of info you find in the explorable area don’t quench my thirst.

Tipper.6973:

Yeah, the Rata Novus bit seems pretty pointless, in hindsight. “Mordremoth has a weakness! We don’t know what it is, but let’s charge straight into his lair and hope for the best!”

Not only that, but now I’m left wondering — what was Zhaitan’s weakness? We just blew him up with cannons. Seemed to be very effective.

Hopefully they will do more with Rata Novus in the future. It should be a VERY rich lore location. The little tidbits of info you find in the explorable area don’t quench my thirst.

with Zhaitan, it suffers a bit from the whole “fragmentedness” of the personal story, you only get to see it as a whisper’s character if you choose to recruit Gorr.

all of the pact’s energy based weaponry is based on polarized magic working under the assumption that all the dragons work like zhaitan: they absorb ambient dragon energy, polarize it, and shoot it back (which we now know isn’t the case and that it only works against zhaitan).

people have started sarcastically saying that since Mordy’s weakness was Mind, Zhaitan’s was Death, and that was true, we were starving him by killing his mouths, then feeding him poisoned necromantic dragon energy.

in Mordy’s case, that wouldn’t work because he is a mind and has no body to destroy.

it’s interesting however that the method we used to kill Mordy is the same as the failed attempt to kill Kralks, which would imply that Snaff’s idea was doomed from the start no matter what Logan did, but also correct in that it can be used to kill AN elder dragon, so perhaps some methods that failed against zhaitan may work against the other dragons

Now I have to throw in a question here, as I spoiled myself a bit and have seen some of the reaction on the forums (btw. I havent finished yet, I am mostly worried):

The story overall feels rushed and short with no real ending (by that, it is said that it just stopps and has no epilog)

Do you think this is the right way to handle the story? leaving the rest for some LS in the future?

is it good for an expansion story? Something that is supposed to be on a greater scale than the LS, meaning it should have more meat behind it.

On one hand it is great that the LS is cappable of creating epic moments and here they succeed in creating a suplement for the traditional expansion, however is it good for the expansion if it doesnt go beyond that?

I am asking because we dont know when we get the conclusion (or is there a date in the end video, i dont know) or the continuation.

The LS had a similiar problem, as it relied too much on the cliffhanger ending, leaving many of us groaning and up to this day disapointed if certain elements didnt get concluded (looking at you E).

I personaly hoped we get a well rounded story and I hope people were exagerating (though many say the story was okayish and short).
I am aware of the split perspective (open world and HoT story delivery).

Overall I liked the story and looking forward to the next living world season!

I liked Rata Novus but it was a complete waste and super anti climatic to just find out that dragons have a “weakness”. Couldn’t we have learned about the dream thing there? Would have meant a lot more.

Exalted were made specifically to combat the dragons right? Where were they? They just stayed in their city and that’s it.

Where the hell is E?

The egg was made out to be some super important thing but once we gave it to the exalted it became a distant memory. Why did we just hand it over to the exalted anyway? We don’t even know them and we suddenly trust them with the egg? And what about the dozen or so other eggs and baby dragon we know are out there as well? What’s so special about that one egg? Hope these questions get answered in the living world.

Have you guys forgotten about the Altar of Glaust? I hope not.