Guild Wars 2

It’s that time again.

New trailer, new episode. Let us all gather around for simple speculation in the pre-release time and of course go in-depth after it goes live…

Official Trailer here, accept no imitations

Now for the spoiler stuff

• DR great political upheaval. Caudecus stuff starts to create a rift in the human society. Do we now get finaly a civil war? I mena, we forgot the Sylvari incident pretty quick.

• Great to see some Watchknights again… hope we also get them in action.

• more emphasis on Primordus and Jormag

• Siege on DR, I hope it allows for some restructuring.

• Breaking the kitten ? Water flowing (Visible at 0:54)? DR underwater? Bubbles confirmed (just joking). However, I always thought these things could be dangerous. I don’t believe Queensdale get’s flooded though.

• A centaur white mantle, wielding bloodstone crazed magic?

Anyway, sounds interesting. No Islands of Jantir and I hop we get a Norn follow up after that lackluster ending, but I will enjoy my three hours next week.

• In all honesty, probably not. Anet’s not really delivered on civil warring before so…
• That was just a statue. Many of which are seen all around Crown Pavilion.
• Less emphasis and more a reminder.
• Siege on a settlement just outside of DR, actually. The cannonballs only strike a dam (you can even see water rushing out of the ruble before the shot changes), and panning/short clips trick viewers into thinking they’re going further than they are (the looking up shots are of said settlement outside of DR, more obvious in some shots than others). Rather than a siege on DR’s walls, it looks more like this is a siege on a northern equivalent of Shaemoor.

Looks epic, best trailer so far for sure, but I think people are instantly setting themselves for disappointment if they’re wanting a battle in/against DR itself.

It’s also a complete shame that they seem to be fully draining the Giant’s Basin with this new map – it already shrunk to hell between the games, now the inland sea turned two lakes will be further reduced to seemingly nothing. Just like the inland sea of the Far Shiverpeaks being completely blocked off and replaced by a giant forest (how the hell did those sanctuaries get there, Anet!?).

I don’t know, these shots definitely seem to be going toward DR, not some settlement laying next to it.

Jaken.6801:

It’s that time again.

New trailer, new episode. Let us all gather around for simple speculation in the pre-release time and of course go in-depth after it goes live…

Official Trailer here, accept no imitations

Now for the spoiler stuff

• DR great political upheaval. Caudecus stuff starts to create a rift in the human society. Do we now get finaly a civil war? I mena, we forgot the Sylvari incident pretty quick.

• Great to see some Watchknights again… hope we also get them in action.

• more emphasis on Primordus and Jormag

• Siege on DR, I hope it allows for some restructuring.

• Breaking the kitten ? Water flowing (Visible at 0:54)? DR underwater? Bubbles confirmed (just joking). However, I always thought these things could be dangerous. I don’t believe Queensdale get’s flooded though.

• A centaur white mantle, wielding bloodstone crazed magic?

Anyway, sounds interesting. No Islands of Jantir and I hop we get a Norn follow up after that lackluster ending, but I will enjoy my three hours next week.

About politics and analogy with Sylvari: This was a part that promised a lot in the hot trailers and was very poorly developed. We were expecting a great “civil” war, and all we had is a series of small events in verdant brink where you interrogate some sylvaris, or differentiate dialogues when playing the HoT story with Sylvari. The trailers showed blood, war, massive battlefields, and we had none of that. If they continue in this pattern it will be a disappointment.

A centaur white mantle, wielding bloodstone crazed magic?

Probably the new raid boss. They have a pattern of raids bosses being extremely ornate. While the LS3 bosses are just more simplistic monsters / corruption.

Another quick though:

The Great Collapse would be a perfect drain for water breaking into the city.

I am curious on how they will “animate” the water, if they do that.

Other interesting things that could come out of it: Divinity’s Reach Catacombs (I can dream)

Jaken.6801

• DR great political upheaval. Caudecus stuff starts to create a rift in the human society. Do we now get finaly a civil war? I mena, we forgot the Sylvari incident pretty quick.

“Soldiers, farmers, scholars, all swearing allegiance to the cause, all waiting for the moment to strike” is what Xera boldly told us shortly before dying. This all definitely feels like a civil war, but how much will it impact the actual game?

Jaken.6801

• A centaur white mantle, wielding bloodstone crazed magic?

I’m doubtful centaurs swore allegiance to the White Mantle, given Caudecus’s xenophobia–more likely the centaurs will be a third participant in this conflict. I personally think the one we see wielding a White Mantle staff just picked it up as a consequence of turning crazed.

Jaken.6801

Other interesting things that could come out of it: Divinity’s Reach Catacombs (I can dream)

Unless the new map will surround all of Divinity’s Reach, providing us with an unprecedented shape for a map (but I guess it would still be possible), there’s a chance we could be going underground, as the rectangular area between Harathi Hinterlands and Divinity’s Reach is relatively small, but I doubt it will happen.

I wonder where the water will flow now that a dam will be disrupted–all points to it being Queensdale but who knows.


In addition, I don’t think we are going to meet Caudecus, as he picked a mysterious woman for the job of regicide (I personally wasn’t able to identify her by the voice only)–if Canach was right, the Confessor might have reached the isles of Janthir by now.

This episode also seems like a good chance to reintroduce Kasmeer into the story.
Also, I’m hoping we are gonna get more of Lazarus.

Sock.2785:

Jaken.6801

• A centaur white mantle, wielding bloodstone crazed magic?

I’m doubtful centaurs swore allegiance to the White Mantle, given Caudecus’s xenophobia–more likely the centaurs will be a third participant in this conflict. I personally think the one we see wielding a White Mantle staff just picked it up as a consequence of turning crazed.

This makes sense though remember caudecus was doing deals with the centaurs in one of the dungeon paths of his manor, he obviously made a deal with them whether it be power or slaves they seem to agree further.

I know that this doesn’t mean anything, but the woman who is leading the genocide, her voice sounded very similar to Minister Estelle from Party Politics. At least if my memory serves me right.

Narcemus.1348

I know that this doesn’t mean anything, but the woman who is leading the genocide, her voice sounded very similar to Minister Estelle from Party Politics.

Good catch, that definitely seems to be her; this could imply that Minister Estelle might attempt to murder the Queen as soon as the siege starts (she’s been tasked with regicide, not genocide).

Unsure whether the centaurs are with the White Mantle though some of those camps seem to have White Mantle flags. I imagine whether they are or not this will be exploited by Caudecus saying the Queen cannot protect the citizens.

Sock.2785:

Narcemus.1348

I know that this doesn’t mean anything, but the woman who is leading the genocide, her voice sounded very similar to Minister Estelle from Party Politics.

Good catch, that definitely seems to be her; this could imply that Minister Estelle might attempt to murder the Queen as soon as the siege starts (she’s been tasked with regicide, not genocide).

Ha yes. Fairly certain I typed regicide. Perhaps autocorrect, or perhaps my mind was distracted as I typed.

from the looks of things this part of the story is happening in a new area around DR. I am guessing we are looking at the unexplored area on the left side of DR that is just north east of Queensdale

I think we are going to know who is Mister E next tuesday

I am curious how the new map will be.

We have a teaser of the town in the new map already.

The place reminds me of a old west town.

Given the build up to this second krytan civil war its likely this will go badly for the Seraph and Shining Blade.

- For a long time Jennah’s popularity has been in decline, evidenced by conversations as far back as vanillia between NPC’s.

- Season 1 didnt help her much when her unity speech was interrupted, not to mention she replaced many peoples homes with an arena.

- Her love for the Charr Peace Treaty isnt popular with nobles, which is why the Ministry gained so much power. And the bandits are heavily comprised of discontent Krytans that hate the treaty as are the Seperatists in Ascalon.

- Cadecus recently reached to the Ascalonian Settlement clearly trying to expand influence for the mantle outside just Kryta.

- The Ironicly made posters yesterday on the guild wars 2 wiki with the shining blade and white mantle, now having the poster slogans roles reversed since the origional war of Kryta, where the Mantle’s was Obey and the Blades was Dismantle, now its the other way round.

- The Seraph are scattered heavily across multiple fronts, some even went to fight Mordy and were killed by Mordy in Season 2, which leaves Jennahs military severely weakened.

- The Shining Blade may be an elite order, but against an army of angry peasants/white mantle soldiers they cant possibly survive.

The conclusion is inevitable, Jennah is about to get more than she can handle in enemies and be drowned by them rather quickly.

Not many support the queen and understandably so, tragically, she has made too many friends at the cost of her people.

And that creates malcontent.

I just watched through a majority of the episode and it turned out roughly how I expected. Fairly straightforward, but nothing really new this time, only a tease for next time.

What I didn’t like was how moustache-twirling Caudecus was. It seemed every step of the episode had to rub it in that he was the villain, as if we didn’t already know. I think it would have been a lot more interesting if he was just a rival politician with legitimate concerns, but the wrong way to carry them out. At this point, I’m wondering how he ever got the title “Caudecus the Wise.” It doesn’t even seem like the kind of thing he’d call himself.

Also, Jennah and Anise continue to act ignobly and no one really seems to care. It’s kinda scary that Jennah has the power to just instantly kill people, and her doing it one by one while taunting came across as pretty creepy. The whole “I will detain you against your will for your own safety” thing was disturbing too. The fact that there were infiltrators isn’t even the point. Jennah and Anise continue to openly defy the rule of law and suspend people’s rights whenever they want, which seems to be any time the topic comes up.

Anise was really violent this episode, but at least she got talked down. If Anise had her way, no one would have known where Caudecus went. Then, after having to be talked down again from outright murdering someone who had surrendered, she suspended their right to a trial so she could control their every movement for the foreseeable future.

Laws and rights exist for situations like this. Situations in which people’s immediate reaction is to want some revenge instead of actually judging what the person did and giving them a chance to reform.

Jennah and Anise really don’t seem to like people having free will, and I don’t like that.

If that Mursaat was not Lazarus, who or what was he?

Anyone notice the Lord Faren illusion in the manor?

Ok let’s go from beginning to end.

A Meeting of Ministers: I loved the guy who fought for his rights after Jennah announced her questionable plans. Seriously, if it had been me there, instead of my character, I would said something. That was some Palpatine-stuff. Aside from that, nothing too interesting. Wow Estelle was evil all along. Very twist, such surprise.

Every inbetween quest and the map: Loved the new map. A lot of attention to detail in this one. Especially the hidden areas, that I’m not going to spoil. The quests were pretty standard and we got another “disguise” mission. Why do we get those every episode now? I mean, I like them, but it’s a bit too much.

Confessor’s End: Now this was one of the best missions in the game, if you ask me. Long, but not bothersome. Challenging, but not unfair (well except… I’ll get to that). The letters tied up sooooo many plotholes. Demmi was a nice throwback, and I always enjoy Anise, even if she seemed a lot less witty in this episode. But we had Canach in top form to even it out. Also we finally got to see the face room without glitching into it. Really liked the riddles.

The first Caudecus fight was really cool, the second one was the only unfun and outright annoying part of the mission. It wasn’t hard, it just took forever, because those NPCs do no damage at all and my character was spending 90% of the fight on the floor. Why do we need Caudecus and the Jade Armors to spam knock-downs? I never want to do that again, which is sad, because I want to play the rest of the mission again.

Anyway, I liked that we got to finish Caudecus, he was a good (not great) villain. Much better than Scarlet, because he had character and was not a Mary-Sue. He was a brilliant schemer, his letters reveal as much, but he also was a coward and not the best at changing his plans on the fly. This is how you do it, strengths and flaws. And I think he was killed of at the right time. He had his moment in the spotlight, but his 5 year long run (wow it has been so long already?) is over now.

Overall a good episode, which served as a swan song to one of the longest running villains in the game. Also some great forshadowing regarding E. Is he the Not-Lazarus? We will see next time on Dragon Ball Season 3.

Jokubas.4265:

The whole “I will detain you against your will for your own safety” thing was disturbing too.

I admit that surprised me too.
But the fact like almost half of them turned out to be traitors justified it in the end. It was a good way to flush out the traitors. It was about time somebody did a clean up of this ‘ministry’, ever since the Personal Story it’s clear that the Ministry was pretty corrupt, this proved that.

I don’t get why there’s a Ministry to begin with, Kryta already has a Monarch.
Having two seperate governing bodies with their own armies leading a single nation is a recipe for disaster.

Jokubas.4265:

What I didn’t like was how moustache-twirling Caudecus was.

He was a terrible foil for Jennah. The set up was great – the monarch vs the minister, a bloodline vs a new age of representation in government. Unfortunately Caudecus wastes all the potential for an interesting power struggle in DR by not being smart or interesting. Not the fault of this release to be honest, his role with the White Mantle, the centaurs and the bandits was all thoroughly explored in the core game at launch. It’s difficult to make Jennah or any of the Krytan protagonists look clever or accomplished with such a poor character is supposed to be their foil – this is an area where Game of Thrones shines and GW2 disappoints. In that sense, killing him so easily here with no big fanfare is a fitting end.

Jokubas.4265:

Also, Jennah and Anise continue to act ignobly and no one really seems to care. It’s kinda scary that Jennah has the power to just instantly kill people, and her doing it one by one while taunting came across as pretty creepy.

Yeah Jennah seemed out of character to me with the boastful glee she displayed killing the mantle in DR (whatever else they were, they were her subjects, it should weigh heavy on her that she let them down enough for them to rise up against her and she is forced to kill them in self defence). Even the bit about how the Pact Commander slashes his/her way through problems seemed more like it should be Canach’s line rather than the Queen of Kryta’s line. I think they were trying too hard for humour here.

I was almost certain Jennah was a White Mantle mesmer clone when she said she’d forcefully detain the ministers against their will – to me that’s a villainous abuse of power, not something a just ruler would do. I hope this is an intentional direction of her character and there will be consequences for her behaving this way. I suspect it will simply be forgiven by the plot and she will continue to be the beloved and “just” ruler of Kryta.

Jokubas.4265:

Anise was really violent this episode, but at least she got talked down.

They tip-toe around the fact that Canach is basically the property of Anise and forced to risk his life to regain his freedom so Anise was always unjust in that way.

I really wish they had put Valette on trial and either executed her or locked her away never to appear in the story again. She’s a poor replacement for Demi. We don’t need a fourth human female mesmer in the Queen’s circle (Jennah, Anise, Kasmeer and now Valette). Anise’s decision is logically inconsistent – why is she so quick to distrust Demi, who has been loyally working for the Order of Whispers for years now but recruit Valette minutes after she tries to kill us all.

Another thing about this plot that bothered me is that it’s essentially the Caithe/Faolain plot resolution we deserved but never got. Faolain is unceremoniously killed in HoT and Caithe was barely involved. We don’t really see the fall out from that for Caithe. Anise’s line about how Valette is gone is almost identical to Caithe’s words about sylvari fallen to Nightmare (side point: we still don’t know what that means). It seems like a messed up priority to give so much screen time to Valette when Caithe/Faolain was the foundation of the most iconic sylvari’s entire story and it its resolution was all swept under a rug.

I just want to bring up the Logan painting in the end. Did ArenaNet just establish GW2’s first major gay (male) character and make him a disgusting creepy old villain obsessed with the straight Krytan protagonist? This is a really harmful myth (that gay men are creeping on straight men and jealous of their girlfriends) and it’s a stupid way to undermine what little integrity the Caudecus plot had at all (is it meant to imply he dislikes Jennah partly because he is obsessed with Logan?). I’m reading into a painting in Caudecus’ private room, but it’s a joke in poor taste at best, and an unnecessary offensive trope tacked on at the end of hist story at worst.

I love the move to have Logan become the new Pact Marshall (did I understand that right?). Almorra should lead the Vigil (it was an awkward move when it’s so specific Trahearne was chosen partly for his neutrality among the three orders). Logan is always more interesting away from Jennah and he is redundant with Anise around, so this can only be good for his story imo. It is funny they took one of the least liked DE members to replace the commonly disliked Trahearne.

I expected Kasmeer, unlike some of her appearances she’s actually relevant to Jennah, Anise and the Kyrtan throne yet she wasn’t seen (at least not as herself).

I am underwhelmed that the regicide plot amounted to nothing again. It feels like regicide in GW2 is as played out as a centaur attacking a farm now. No tension or excitement about it.

Jokubas.4265:

What I didn’t like was how moustache-twirling Caudecus was. It seemed every step of the episode had to rub it in that he was the villain, as if we didn’t already know. I think it would have been a lot more interesting if he was just a rival politician with legitimate concerns, but the wrong way to carry them out. At this point, I’m wondering how he ever got the title “Caudecus the Wise.” It doesn’t even seem like the kind of thing he’d call himself.

Maybe he was wiser and better balanced before he started sniffing bloodstone?

As I have not finished yet, did you notice most evil minister wore the white mantle colors in reverse?

Slowpokeking.8720:

If that Mursaat was not Lazarus, who or what was he?

Lazarus is Gleam.

Also, it looks like Logan realizes he’s been friend zoned.

Randulf.7614:

Anyone notice the Lord Faren illusion in the manor?

Same. And he dissapeares when we enter on room.

The lore wise guys have any speculation? its kinda misterious.

ugrakarma.9416:

Randulf.7614:

Anyone notice the Lord Faren illusion in the manor?

Same. And he dissapeares when we enter on room.

The lore wise guys have any speculation? its kinda misterious.

As far as we know nothing more than eyecandy for the White Mantle Mesmer in the room.
Who could resist Lord Faren in a speedo?

ugrakarma.9416:

Randulf.7614:

Anyone notice the Lord Faren illusion in the manor?

Same. And he dissapeares when we enter on room.

The lore wise guys have any speculation? its kinda misterious.

It’s a running “joke” that Lord Faren is used as a sex object in the story. He was put in a speedo on Southsun Island, he was stripped down to his speedo in Scarlet’s attack on the Queen’s Jubilee, for some reason he turns up in in the jungle in a loincloth and now the female mesmer was summoning him as an illusion in a loincloth to entertain her as a sex object again.

Originally he was put in a speedo because Kasmeer was going to appear in a speedo on Southsun Island (gender parity) but she went on to become a primary protagonist while Faren is a recurring sex object gag (his appearance during the first story instance was also along these lines).

I really liked the GW1 references in Noran’s homestead. It’s just sad that Aiden’s and Zho’s legacy ends so tragically in GW2.

Overall I thought this was one of the stronger story releases, in no small part due to the absence of characters that didn’t need to be around. Seeing Jennah, Logan, Anise and Demi (with some less prominent Krytans) all deal with the White Mantle really showed the stength of GW2’s world building when people other than the biconics are allowed to take the spotlight.

Lake Doric really feels like a nostalgia trip of Kryta’s core maps – many of the hearts and mechanics returned from Queensdale and the other Krytan regions, but with enough new stuff to make it fun and interesting for level 80 content. I’m still running around soaking up all the NPC lore and locations. I’m glad GW2 has a level 80 map filled with White Mantle, as annoying as they are to fight.

What was the point of the charr presence in Lake Doric? Shouldn’t that unnerve the Krytan’s in the region and empower Caudecus’ cause? First she recognises the charr/human treaty despite being Krytan and not Ascalonian, now she has charr forces fighting Krytan citizens just outside the capital. Did I miss some greater purpose or story to the charr presence or is this a continuation of the World Summit charr characterisation (our allies’ fight is our own) and set up for something to come?

If Lazarus isn’t the real Lazarus, who is he? Obviously someone really powerful but the reveal of the Horcrux plot really makes that whole scenario confusing. Could it be Palawa Joko? I really don’t know who would disguise themselves as mursaat to fool the play protagonist to gain access to the dragon.

Shiren.9532:

I really liked the GW1 references in Noran’s homestead. It’s just sad that Aiden’s and Zho’s legacy ends so tragically in GW2.

What was the point of the charr presence in Lake Doric? Shouldn’t that unnerve the Krytan’s in the region and empower Caudecus’ cause? First she recognises the charr/human treaty despite being Krytan and not Ascalonian, now she has charr forces fighting Krytan citizens just outside the capital. Did I miss some greater purpose or story to the charr presence or is this a continuation of the World Summit charr characterisation (our allies’ fight is our own) and set up for something to come?

If Lazarus isn’t the real Lazarus, who is he? Obviously someone really powerful but the reveal of the Horcrux plot really makes that whole scenario confusing. Could it be Palawa Joko? I really don’t know who would disguise themselves as mursaat to fool the play protagonist to gain access to the dragon.

• I liked that as well. Aiden was always in my Tyrian Team and the last one to go down in GW1. It’s cool to see that they even have a black Moa.

• The Charr are there, because the White Mantles victory would put an end to the human/charr treaty. They don’t want all their efforts go to waste and offered to help fighting back the White Mantle. If you run around the villages, people are more devestated about their homes being razed by the mantle, than some Charr fighting for them.

• I don’t think Palawa Joko would do something like this so far up. He is a trickster, but he has his domain he rules upon. He is powerful enough to go full undead on Kryta if he needed. Maybe even tapping into Zaithans power, which is now floating around. That would actually be more plausible to a degree. It’s close/similiar to his own power and geographicly.
  I don’t think PJ would go that route. It’s way to complicated from his perspective.

I can’t help but wonder if the Faren gag is a slam on ERPers.

Just a quick response, since I just finished an hour ago and it’s approaching midnight local…

First, it’s kinda awesome seeing humans show off their strength for once. The Watchknights are back in action, and a lot of powerful magic being shown off (even not including the bloodstone addicts).

Second, the revelation about Caudecus substituting a piece for Lazarus is an interesting one. Where did the substitute come from? Does Caudecus actually know, or is the piece simply not-Lazarus? If anything, this puts a bigger question mark over not-Lazarus’ motives: not-Lazarus clearly was not Caudecus’ ally, but Caudecus appears to have expected the ritual to fail entirely, not to create an entity that appears very similar to Lazarus but changed in personality. What if the piece he slipped in was of a stone dwarf? Or something that Glint had planted, predicting that he’d use it? Not-Lazarus could still be a genuine ally, depending on what the fifth piece actually is…

Jokubas.4265:

Also, Jennah and Anise continue to act ignobly and no one really seems to care. It’s kinda scary that Jennah has the power to just instantly kill people, and her doing it one by one while taunting came across as pretty creepy. The whole “I will detain you against your will for your own safety” thing was disturbing too. The fact that there were infiltrators isn’t even the point. Jennah and Anise continue to openly defy the rule of law and suspend people’s rights whenever they want, which seems to be any time the topic comes up.

My read on the ‘killing one by one while taunting’ was that she was deliberately being intimidating in the hope that, but demonstrating how utterly outclassed the mooks were, she’d get them to show the better side of valour. Her display possibly actually saved the life of the one that got away, while if she’d just broken Estelle’s spell right off the bat and a free-for-all started right away, it’s likely that all four would have been killed.

Regarding suspending the Ministry…

Unlike when that sort of thing happens in real life, the evidence at this point is pretty clear-cut that there was something rotten at the Ministry. The Legate Minister had just been outed as a traitor, and everyone who wasn’t also a traitor would at that stage had known that Caudecus almost certainly still had agents within the Ministry, and the Pact Commander had just discovered evidence that there were still traitors in their midst. The Ministry was, at that point, a clear and present danger to the security of the realm, and suspending it until Caudecus was dealt with is probably justified on that basis.

In fact, the fact that the White Mantle was so prepared to strike after the announcement suggests that they knew it was coming: Jennah had finally gathered enough evidence to make it legally justifiable.

(It’s worth noting that in many constitutional monarchies today, the monarch retains the right to dismiss Parliament. By convention, this power is not used outside of an emergency, but it’s actually part of the checks and balances of those countries: if push comes to shove, you have a respected non-partisan individual who can step in if a government is proving to be a total disaster.)

Whether Jennah truly desires to be an autocrat will, I think, be shown in the future: does she start making excuses for keeping the Ministry suspended? Or does she reinstate it as soon as practical?

When it comes to Anise: I think we’re supposed to think she’s being a bit extreme. Every other character is expressing disapproval of her behaviour.

Few things to note about not-Lazarus:

- He claims to have “more virtuous pursuits”
- Wants to protect Aurene

My thoughts are something to do with Glint, honestly. He knows about Aurene, he knows who we are, etc. Maybe it’s even the Master of Peace?

Very interested, hope it gets answered next episode.

mexay.3902:

Few things to note about not-Lazarus:

- He claims to have “more virtuous pursuits”
- Wants to protect Aurene

My thoughts are something to do with Glint, honestly. He knows about Aurene, he knows who we are, etc. Maybe it’s even the Master of Peace?

Very interested, hope it gets answered next episode.

Maybe we got the typical “injecting humanity into a god/demon” trope.

This of course can go several ways, but it’s an interesting thought.

You know, if the Anise is Livia theory holds any weight, then it would make sense for her to become this monstrous after seeing her nation torn apart by civil war again by the same monsters that hunted her counterparts all those centuries ago.

Jaken.6801:

mexay.3902:

Few things to note about not-Lazarus:

- He claims to have “more virtuous pursuits”
- Wants to protect Aurene

My thoughts are something to do with Glint, honestly. He knows about Aurene, he knows who we are, etc. Maybe it’s even the Master of Peace?

Very interested, hope it gets answered next episode.

Maybe we got the typical “injecting humanity into a god/demon” trope.

This of course can go several ways, but it’s an interesting thought.

Fake Lazarus is Gleam. Gleam can explain the following questions:
Who can absorb magic?
Who would want to protect Aurene?
Who would know the moment of her birth?
Who would want to keep thier ID secret?

Who is Gleam?

asd asd asd asd #15characters

Gleam is Aurene’s big brother.

Well… I enjoyed this one, and I feel like there’s some nuance being missed in this discussion, so what the heck. I’ll chime in.

A Meeting of Ministers: Talk about starting on a strong note. Jennah was incredible, although the energy barrier encompassing the entire Upper City (and, once we’re out of the instance, apparently the rest of DR too) was a bit much even with the fig leaf of it being something prepared beforehand. Plot convenience to keep from having to deal with the city being bombarded, I assume, which freed them up to focus on the new map and then the story they wanted to tell. But what I liked more than the reminder that the Queen can handle herself in a fight (and that point finally getting through to Logan!) was that we saw more personality from Jennah in that one instance than in every previous appearance put together. The joking about how our job must be easier, the quip about how she might be cut out for our line of work… the politician’s mask slipped a bit, and it felt like we finally saw a person under it. The joy at being able to strike directly at foes who’ve been trying to undo everything you’ve worked to build after years of having to sit on your hands for the sake of justice and kindness and all the other high-minded ideals that’ve let them run rings around you… I thought it was a very relatable, very human reaction, not just cruelty or glee in bloodshed.

The one thing that made me raise an eyebrow was how she went about suspending the Ministry. When the one guy started talking over her, my reaction was ‘what did you expect their reaction would be?’ If the attack hadn’t come when it did… but afterwards, I believe that was the whole point. It wasn’t that Jennah’s a tyrant, it’s that she had clear and justified reasons for doing what she did, and the timing of the attack was ANet’s way of getting that point across to us players (and the loyal ministers). What we saw was a minister make good, reasonable objections on strictly moral grounds (more on that in a bit), that quickly faded into insignificance in the face of what was actually happening. I think the fact that Jennah only did this now, not five years ago when clear evidence was provided that somebody in the Ministry was plotting with Kryta’s enemies to overthrow her, goes a long way towards showing her to be a restrained ruler who was largely dedicated to the Ministry model.

Lake Doric: The map itself I enjoy. However, this was the fourth time straight that we’ve had an interruption requiring us to go grind the new content for a bit before we come back to the story, and it felt particularly egregious. Maybe it’s that I’d taken my time during the scouting mission, and completed most of the hearts in the process, then got told to turn around and go do the same thing over again. Maybe it’s that none of the story instances took place in Lake Doric. Maybe it’s just that it’s the fourth forced tour that doesn’t contribute anything. Either way, that sequence felt like an interruption, not a continuation, of the story, and it was bad enough to prompt me to walk away last night. It had echoes of S1, where the release’s content goal (in this case, their commitment to a new map every time) and plot goal didn’t seem integrated.

Regrouping with the Queen: Short, but with a lot packed in. It made me a little sad to see Jennah back in Queen mode… although I can’t help but notice it corresponded with Anise coming back to hover over her. Combined with the first time we’ve ever seen the two of them disagree, I’m thinking that it’s not just Logan’s protection that chafes. Demmi’s return was a surprise, but a pleasure, and Logan taking on the role of Marshal… that was an interesting choice, but maybe a good one. Putting a character who the community is already split over into a role that invites Kormir Syndrome at least avoids the risk of a more widely popular character wearing out their welcome, and he is certainly better qualified than Trahearne (or our own characters, for that matter). It’ll be interesting to watch how it plays out.

Confessor’s End: This one was amazing. Being given an opportunity to solo clear the Manor and wander around at my leisure was pandering to me already, but the amount of story content in those letters, and the variety, blew me away. Everything from covering what we already knew from the PS, to things we could’ve guessed with what we know now (Zamon being Mantle, Caudecus being responsible for tipping the Blade off about the former Confessor), to things that came as honest surprises (killing Ulgoth’s family with the implication that it’s not just responsible for the attack on Shaemoor but the entire hyper-aggressive state of the war throughout the base game, or Caudecus having fought as a general is Ascalon); I can’t think of a better way to tie things together at the end of the original game’s most intricate plot. Some people won’t be happy that Caudecus turned out to be behind even more than we originally knew, but it fits him in a way it never did Scarlet, and was handled better to boot. Seeing the secret rooms used also made me grin, and the boss fight was the first one I’ve enjoyed all season. The mechanics were intuitive, and playing around them felt like it gave me a leg up as a reward, instead of just being a mandatory pain in the kitten. The countermagic could’ve used a larger window, but I adjusted.

The experience was very positive on the whole, but there were two disappointments. The squabbling between Anise and Demmi was as unenjoyable as any dialogue I’ve ever had to sit through, and I was beginning to daydream about putting an arrow into our Master Exemplar before Canach showed up and pulled things back on course. The other is that our encounter with Caudecus came when he was entirely off his game. The letters made up for a large part of that, and maybe that was the best way to turn him into a boss level encounter, but seeing him as a rambling creep, and then a raging behemoth, wasn’t as satisfying as facing him on his own terms would’ve been.

One last note: what happened to the bit from last patch about Caudecus heading to Janthir? Maybe I missed something, but I didn’t even see it mentioned.

Jokubas.4265:

Jennah and Anise continue to openly defy the rule of law and suspend people’s rights whenever they want, which seems to be any time the topic comes up.

Anise was really violent this episode, but at least she got talked down. If Anise had her way, no one would have known where Caudecus went. Then, after having to be talked down again from outright murdering someone who had surrendered, she suspended their right to a trial so she could control their every movement for the foreseeable future.

Laws and rights exist for situations like this. Situations in which people’s immediate reaction is to want some revenge instead of actually judging what the person did and giving them a chance to reform.

Laws and rights exist in the real world for situations like this. Thing is, though, Kryta has no reason to have those rights.

The idea of human rights isn’t just the default behavior of our species, and they didn’t form in a void. We built up to them slowly, over hundreds of years, through a very specific set of political and cultural circumstances. I admit I haven’t studied the subject in detail, but my understanding is that both parliamentary government and bills of rights don’t date any earlier than the 16th century, and that both came about because the kings of the time no longer had the power to resist the demands of the nobles they relied on. (European history being what it is, I suspect that understanding is a vast oversimplification.) That period of transition seems to be, roughly, where modern Kryta is right now, but without forces like the Reformation and the Enlightenment eroding the monarch’s power.

What we’ve been told about the Ministry is that it’s an advisory body, and a means of representation of the populace, that’s gained the weight of tradition and custom. While it managed to informally grant itself quite a bit of power during Jennah’s minority, all the indications I’ve seen is that Kryta is still in theory an absolute monarchy. When the minister spoke out against Jennah, he didn’t use any words like ‘illegal’ or unconstitutional’, which would have been the go-to if such laws or constitutions existed. Instead, he was reduced to appealing to principle, that the voice of the ministers and the people should be heard. Now, where the system goes in the future depends quite a bit on how this conflict plays out going forward, but for the reasons I’ve stated in my previous post I suspect we’ve just seen Jennah bring the Ministry to heel. Even if she does reinstate it down the road, she’s made it clear that she retains the authority and that they serve at her pleasure, and under current conditions I don’t think anyone’s going to be able to mount effective opposition without coming across as a Mantle sympathizer.

Jokubas.4265:

I just watched through a majority of the episode and it turned out roughly how I expected. Fairly straightforward, but nothing really new this time, only a tease for next time.

What I didn’t like was how moustache-twirling Caudecus was. It seemed every step of the episode had to rub it in that he was the villain, as if we didn’t already know. I think it would have been a lot more interesting if he was just a rival politician with legitimate concerns, but the wrong way to carry them out. At this point, I’m wondering how he ever got the title “Caudecus the Wise.” It doesn’t even seem like the kind of thing he’d call himself.

Also, Jennah and Anise continue to act ignobly and no one really seems to care. It’s kinda scary that Jennah has the power to just instantly kill people, and her doing it one by one while taunting came across as pretty creepy. The whole “I will detain you against your will for your own safety” thing was disturbing too. The fact that there were infiltrators isn’t even the point. Jennah and Anise continue to openly defy the rule of law and suspend people’s rights whenever they want, which seems to be any time the topic comes up.

Anise was really violent this episode, but at least she got talked down. If Anise had her way, no one would have known where Caudecus went. Then, after having to be talked down again from outright murdering someone who had surrendered, she suspended their right to a trial so she could control their every movement for the foreseeable future.

Laws and rights exist for situations like this. Situations in which people’s immediate reaction is to want some revenge instead of actually judging what the person did and giving them a chance to reform.

Jennah and Anise really don’t seem to like people having free will, and I don’t like that.

IRL laws differ from country to country. To be honest, we don’t know what the laws of Kryta are and what are recognized as rights. To make the claim she ignored the rule of law assumes way too much. Maybe Kryta has a version of the War Time Powers act.

draxynnic.3719:

Second, the revelation about Caudecus substituting a piece for Lazarus is an interesting one. Where did the substitute come from? Does Caudecus actually know, or is the piece simply not-Lazarus? If anything, this puts a bigger question mark over not-Lazarus’ motives: not-Lazarus clearly was not Caudecus’ ally, but Caudecus appears to have expected the ritual to fail entirely, not to create an entity that appears very similar to Lazarus but changed in personality. What if the piece he slipped in was of a stone dwarf? Or something that Glint had planted, predicting that he’d use it? Not-Lazarus could still be a genuine ally, depending on what the fifth piece actually is…

Hm. That’s one possibility, and an interesting line of thought (what if the reason he’s so mellow now is that the piece that didn’t get put in was the corrupted one with all the reason to hate humanity?), but the impression I got was that the ritual did fail entirely, and that some mysterious interloper was poised in the wings to swoop in and put on a mursaat disguise. That’d raise it’s own questions- what happened to the bits of Lazarus chief among them, and which third part is powerful enough to pull that kind of deceit off- so I’m looking forward to finding out what they go with. At least we can be reasonably certain this mystery won’t take years to come up again.

at this point i’m thinking kasmeer is lazarus.
anyway, why any single mesmer npc in this game is so much stronger than any mesmer player?
Xera can create well of gravity so big that can cover half a platform, create 3 phantasms in a single cast.

the queen can kill by pointing, create a feedback so huge and powerful to repel bloodstone cannon shards, maintain it for more than 6 seconds also not to mention cast a timewarp more often than i can cast a well of action, uses a single hand sword as range and close combat weapon and in the book she can create an illusion of an elder dragon so believable that even dragon minions decided to retreat.

everybody can open portal to everywhere and any mesmer mob can do a mind stab from greatsword with multiple aoe, not to mention reset their health with portal.

anise can be invisible for, disguise everybody as she sees fit, creat illusions that talk.

and yes at this point i believe that kasmeer is powerful enough to pretend to be lazarus. this lazarus showed some mesmers powers when he completely stopped us with a timewarp in bloodstone fen before he could burn everyone down.
also kasmeer is from janthir and already has the power to detect lies as gift of true sight wuould grant and totally get marjory on her side

So, i finished yesterday, now I can also chime in:

• Meeting the Ministers was interesting. Taimi starts to make me cringe a bit in her approach to things and the foreboding Scarlet uttered by my Comander doesn’t bode well. Also Oomads Machine and the eternal alchemy come into play, which I also see as a red flag. Taimi is playing with fire and I can only see it blow up in her face. Why do all my friends have to be so recless? I miss Rox, Kasmeer and old Majory.

• The Queen and the ministers were fine. While we don’t see the extend of her research and if she put mostly bad ministers under housearest , it was a bit uncomfortable, but not unreasonable. While the one minister had every right to speak up, the queen also had every right to do so. This is martial law. The queens decree would become unreasonable, if the temporary part gets cut. Yes we could make some IRL compairsons, but I am only talking from an objective point of view.

• I know the PC Mesmer is allrounder grunt Mesmer, with some specializations, but I kinda feel impotent compaired to all enemy Mesmer around here. They can teleport everywhere, do massive AoE sword spikes, create a full life clone… geez… I thought our PC was a combat focused Mesmer and things like mass teleport was more for the scolar types.
  Suddenly Scarlet creating portals everywhere feels kinda lackluster. Heck even the simple medic later did an emergency teleport. Anet seriously needs to put there limits back in line.

• Queen Jenna going all out , was fine. I liked it. I don’t believe she is the one who holds up the shield though. I think it’s a group effort of the Mesmer collective and her going around and strenghten the shield was to counter distruptions or anything. I know she is a strong mesmer, but this scratches the believability. Luckily she said that they had messures in place, which might mean she just activates some rituals, or other magic mumbo jumbo.

Continuation:

• I like the new map. Nothing special but fun events. A bit sad that its secluded and doesn’t affect the sourounding areas like Queensdale or DR.

• Love the lore scattered around. However who is Cin and why should I care about that scoundrel, who is clearly a bad guy? Is there any pay off to him?

• Aiden’s heritage is sad. Wish we could gain more then a bit of closure here from it. Maybe a memento.

• The six gods are gone. I kneel and do other things in front of them and don’t get a reaction. Why have you foresaken me Melandru? or did I choose Kormir?

• E is alive and we get some infos on his spy network. Seems human centric so far. Evenia maybe? We got that name brought back thanks to the fort at least.

• I liked Logans development. I am curious what broke the bond between him and Jenna (?). He seems more clear in the ehad now. Maybe being put in a pod did clear his mind?

• I loved Caudecus manor and the many letters scattered around. Sad to see Demi go, though.

• Anise was weird. Way to angry and cut-throat the whole time. Way to trigger happy. She never stroke me as someone who would loose her head so easily. Sure it was war, but I always thought of her being more reasonable and professional. She was like the Queen of Hearts… Wait a sec… Queen Jenna was agitated and told us about her pent up frustration and agression. Now Anise is very riled up. Maybe Anise is a Mesmer construct which channels Jennas emotions of some sort? Or Maybe there is a link? Something to think about…

• Caudecus did everything that harmed the humans in the past few years. Interesting, but I am curious what is his endgame was? Just the throne? World domination? If he is as cunning as he is discribed, it’s kinda weird to have him so oblivious to the overall danger beyond the human realm. Though he might have had just a one track mind over the years.

• Caudecus SMASH. So he was a Mesmer, who knew… blurried frenzy and stuff. The fight was mostly annoying, thanks to the short timeframe and camera. But that’s gamemechanic.

• Canach was great. Hope he comes back soon. Most other members get on my nerves right now.

• Caudecus room. The dialog was great. I just say picture and bed…

• No Kasmeer sadly, only mentioned in one of E’s letters. With all the mega powerful mesmers around, she would fit right in.

May the real Lazarus please stand up:

Okay the reveal of Lazarus having split his soul in several artifacts and that Caudecus exchanged one with a fake does bring up several possibilities:

• Lazarus is not Lazarus but a fake being. We don’t know who or what he is, but it’s certainly not the one from 250 Years ago.

• Lazarus is only 4/5 Lazarus. He is the Lazarus, but is missing parts of his soul, which would explain his more benevolent behaviour
• Same as above, but he only fakes being nice, thus no real change and Caudecus didn’t affect much (?)

• It is Lazarus body and maybe 4/5 of his soul, but something/someone else is filling the empty space

Depending on which scenario is the case, it does allow for some interesting future developments:

• Lazarus lost part of his evilness and is now nice. He isn’t aware that he is missing something and getting knowledge of it might trigger something

• Lazarus uses us to get his missing part back, which for some reason he wasn’t able to before (scared that Caudecus might break it maybe?)

• Lazarus now has some human part, thanks to the many souls floating around there and is actually a good guy now. He is aware of everything, but needed to wait for us to uncover the truth so we will believe him on our own.

One thing that struck me on further consideration (and it looks like Jaken did too, although I should note that this struck me independently) is that it might still be Lazarus, simply… missing something. We saw in GW1 that he retained his personality and power (or at least the majority of it) when he was still missing an aspect, so it makes sense that his revival would be successful with only four pieces, even though Caudecus evidently thought otherwise. If it is the case that what we see is genuinely Lazarus, just not the whole Lazarus, then it does raise the question of Lazarus going after the fifth piece… and what might happen if and when he finds it. For instance, he could genuinely be an ally now… but the fifth piece is the aspect of his personality that wants countless generations to suffer as revenge.

Another thing that struck me on further consideration: Logan as Pact Marshal. We’ve been told that the Pact Marshal position is going to be a permanent, enforced desk job, which is why the PC turned it down. Might giving Logan the job be something they’ve done in order to effectively remove an unpopular character without being as obvious as killing him? With the PC no longer actually being part of the Pact hierarchy, our direct interaction with the Marshal could be as limited as, possibly more limited than, our interactions with the racial leaders.

Jokubas.4265:

I just watched through a majority of the episode and it turned out roughly how I expected. Fairly straightforward, but nothing really new this time, only a tease for next time.

What I didn’t like was how moustache-twirling Caudecus was.

Do the episode. Read the letters in his manor.

This was the best part of me. Those letters answeres a HUGE amount of questions from the human PS. So many loose ends tied up so nicely, with a bow on top too.

Caudecus isn’t a mustache-twirling villain. He isn’t even a Palpatine. He was a puppetmaster that was manipulating every piece on the chess board, and played every characters – even his supposed allies – both ways.

Jokubas.4265:

It’s kinda scary that Jennah has the power to just instantly kill people, and her doing it one by one while taunting came across as pretty creepy.

This was a show of power. She was showing what she could do, after over a decade of not doing it. She showed that she not only had power, but the restraint to not use it.

Jokubas.4265:

The whole “I will detain you against your will for your own safety” thing was disturbing too. The fact that there were infiltrators isn’t even the point. Jennah and Anise continue to openly defy the rule of law and suspend people’s rights whenever they want, which seems to be any time the topic comes up.

But Jennah never actually detained them. The entire purpose was to flush out the traitors to the crown, to make her enemies show their true colors. She was cleaning the slate of all corruption, and took a ploy of acting as her enemies portray her in order to draw them out.

Jennah never actually restrained anyone.

Jokubas.4265:

Jennah and Anise really don’t seem to like people having free will, and I don’t like that.

Anise seems to have a personal grudge against the White Mantle, but nothing Jennah really did shows what you claim.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I don’t get why there’s a Ministry to begin with, Kryta already has a Monarch.
Having two seperate governing bodies with their own armies leading a single nation is a recipe for disaster.

Logan answers this question in the Dead Sister storyline.

Basically, the Ministry existed for a while but never had much power – they were, it seems, a method for the royal family to know the problems of the whole nation easily. The Ministry gained power with Jennah’s father’s death, because it happened when Jennah was too young to take the throne without supervision. Ever since Jennah was officially crowned and was able to rule alone, the Ministry has simply refused to give up their power – no doubt in large due to Caudecus’ power hunger.

Similarly, it was this refusal to give up power, combined with the rising centaur threat (causing the Seraph to be thinned out), that gave birth to the Ministry Guard, who began as simply mercenaries hired independently by the Ministry – they united to form the Ministry Guard. No doubt the first mercenaries having been White Mantle agents hired by Caudecus and those loyal to him.

Slowpokeking.8720:

If that Mursaat was not Lazarus, who or what was he?

It should be noted that it is only of Caudecus’ (potentially lied to) belief that the ritual would fail without all five artifacts. And from that, the PC believes such too.

Lazarus existed without all of his aspects before (see GW1), so there’s no reason why this couldn’t be so again.

Furthermore, Caudecus’ contact was Bauer, and in his journal he shows himself to be tricking Caudecus rather than tricking Xera. So it’s easily possible that Bauer lied – either about the nature of the ritual, or about the artifact containing an aspect of Lazarus.

However, if Lazarus is indeekittene, my money is on Bauer being the man behind the mask. Reason being is that he led Valis and others to the mines to perform the ritual that destroyed the bloodstone and let “Lazarus” absorb the magic – Xera was already dead by that point, and the relics up in Stronghold of the Faithful. So whatever ritual he was going to do was not reviving Lazarus.

I’d need to experience a completed Stronghold of the Faithful to know more…

BuddhaKeks.4857:

The first Caudecus fight was really cool, the second one was the only unfun and outright annoying part of the mission. It wasn’t hard, it just took forever, because those NPCs do no damage at all and my character was spending 90% of the fight on the floor. Why do we need Caudecus and the Jade Armors to spam knock-downs? I never want to do that again, which is sad, because I want to play the rest of the mission again.

I don’t get how people had so much problem. I just strafed fetching the shards one after another to toss at Caudecus and was fine the whole mission. Only time I had trouble was when the jade armor popped up, but that was a one-time spawn.

Only annoyance was the speed of his special skill attack.

I hate that they overnerfed the fights.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Anyway, I liked that we got to finish Caudecus, he was a good (not great) villain. Much better than Scarlet, because he had character and was not a Mary-Sue. He was a brilliant schemer, his letters reveal as much, but he also was a coward and not the best at changing his plans on the fly. This is how you do it, strengths and flaws. And I think he was killed of at the right time. He had his moment in the spotlight, but his 5 year long run (wow it has been so long already?) is over now.

Agreed, I kind of wish there wasn’t such a huge gap in the plots focusing on him, but Caudecus was a “villain done right”. One of the few in the series, especially in GW2.

DarcShriek.5829:

Also, it looks like Logan realizes he’s been friend zoned.

This is something I don’t like. This feels like a retcon, because in the Personal Story, there is this conversation between Jennah and the PC:

PC: Speaking of Captain Thackeray… it doesn’t bother you that he’s going to Lion’s Arch?
Jennah: I’m worried, I’ll admit. Caithe has never been trustworthy in the best of times, and lately… please, tell me you’ll watch over him?
PC: You know that you could stop him, right? One word from you, and he’d stay.
Jennah: No, Advocate. I have enough servants — I want a partner. Logan must be free to make his own decisions. I made such a mistake once before. I won’t make it again.

Jennah very clearly states that she loves Logan in the PS, and only was pushing him away because Logan was trying to show his devotion by serving her, when she wants him to become an equal for her. But it was also heavily implied that a relationship between Jennah and Logan would be used by Caudecus as propaganda against her somehow, so she avoided adding fuel to the fire.

Of course, Logan’s promotion to Pact Marshal would be exactly that – Logan stop being a servant and becoming an equal to Jennah.

So I really hope that Jennah’s words in that instance was because her servants could overhear or something.

Otherwise, they just ruined one of the few relationships in this game, and only major non-homosexual relationship too.

Shiren.9532:

It’s a running “joke” that Lord Faren is used as a sex object in the story. He was put in a speedo on Southsun Island, he was stripped down to his speedo in Scarlet’s attack on the Queen’s Jubilee, for some reason he turns up in in the jungle in a loincloth and now the female mesmer was summoning him as an illusion in a loincloth to entertain her as a sex object again.

Don’t forget the mention of a “Faren Pin-up Calendar” from Party Politics.

Shiren.9532:

What was the point of the charr presence in Lake Doric? Shouldn’t that unnerve the Krytan’s in the region and empower Caudecus’ cause? First she recognises the charr/human treaty despite being Krytan and not Ascalonian, now she has charr forces fighting Krytan citizens just outside the capital. Did I miss some greater purpose or story to the charr presence or is this a continuation of the World Summit charr characterisation (our allies’ fight is our own) and set up for something to come?

From my understanding, the Sentinels (why the Sentinels, who are usually solely on the Dragonbrand? I dunno) came to assist in a time of need as a relief effort and support. They were also tracking Separatist ties (answered in the final instance – the carnies are Separatists) at the time, and generally trying to keep their allies strong and their enemies weak.

I do not think that charr attacking people attacking Kryta would support Caudecus’ claims or frighting the Krytan citizens.

I shall continue my thoughts and responses in this thread later… so much to read. Finally a release I can truly enjoy!

In the case of Jennah and Logan…

I don’t think it’s necessarily a retcon of Jennah being genuine… however, she needs Logan to get out from under her shadow one way or another. It’s probably not going to be possible politically for them to get together without Logan having made an independent name for himself, and it’s likely that Jennah herself is sick of him being a lapdog.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Caudecus isn’t a mustache-twirling villain. He isn’t even a Palpatine. He was a puppetmaster that was manipulating every piece on the chess board, and played every characters – even his supposed allies – both ways.

That’s pretty much exactly what Palpatine was doing, though. Palpatine was manipulating everyone, directly or indirectly, up to his death, and said death came about due to unpredictable events.