(Spoiler) Living Story S3E5 Discussion

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Forum bug.

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

Makes you wonder if any orher Gods are disguised as well. Someone suggested the Queen or Anise as Lyssa, which whilst prob full of loopholes, at least the idea has interesting spevulation around it if there is any presumption the other Gods may have diminished.

What I saw was someone suggest that with an “and” not an “or” which is potentially awesome.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Makes you wonder if any orher Gods are disguised as well. Someone suggested the Queen or Anise as Lyssa, which whilst prob full of loopholes, at least the idea has interesting spevulation around it if there is any presumption the other Gods may have diminished.

What I saw was someone suggest that with an “and” not an “or” which is potentially awesome.

Interesting point. My post came from a a casual discussion with a guildie, but that thought never croped up, although I’m still more in favour of Anise being Livia rather than linked to Jennah directly.

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

I’m suspecting that Grenth is both our old friend Jurah the Master of Whispers(we never saw Grenth’s face come to think of it so why not) and our other friend Mr. E.

Hopefully he helps us against the other Six Gods just as he helped the Reapers against Dhuum. In all honesty Balthazar is no different from Dhuum in my opinion so surely Grenth would have no trouble helping us fight him(Grenth is already at war with Dwayna and Melandru you know).

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Posted by: Walhalla.5473

Walhalla.5473

Hopefully he helps us against the other Six Gods just as he helped the Reapers against Dhuum. In all honesty Balthazar is no different from Dhuum in my opinion so surely Grenth would have no trouble helping us fight him(Grenth is already at war with Dwayna and Melandru you know).

Grenth is at war with Dwayna and Melandru? Where did you get this information?

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

At the very least he fights with them during Wintersday during GW1. He really doesn’t seem all that friendly with Dwayna at all!

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Wintersday is not a war, just a friendly, family spat. Like a party game.

Though I’ve always been curious about the origins of such, especially given the revelation in GW2 about Grenth being Dwayna’s son.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

Without having played the story, I asume Primordus has an actual physical body, that isn’t just a big beeing out of lava/magma?

What a shame. I thought the theory of every dragon being like their “element” was solid.
I mean we had the dead body Zaithan and planty Mordremoth.

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Basically, something happened to Balthazar, something we do not know, and he lost his godhood. Who “they” refer to we do not know, but Balthazar seems to have fallen from grace the way Abaddon has. Or he was supplanted the way Grenth supplanted Dhuum (leaving the god alive but fallen).

I understood it as he was talking about the dragons. All of the gods lost power at the expense of the dragons. They don’t get to be gods again until the dragons are dead or asleep, and if they have to move worlds again so be it. That may even be how they wound up in Tyria to begin with, the magic struggle with something blew up the planet they were on previously and they brought some of their most faithful followers with them and screw the rest.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

I assume this also means Primordus may no longer have Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic since he has returned to “pre-awakening” levels?

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

Without having played the story, I asume Primordus has an actual physical body, that isn’t just a big beeing out of lava/magma?

What a shame. I thought the theory of every dragon being like their “element” was solid.
I mean we had the dead body Zaithan and planty Mordremoth.

He had a volcanic skull sticking out of lava similar to how the Mouth of Mordremoth was growing out of Maguuma Jungle.

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Posted by: Sock.2785

Sock.2785

Without having played the story, I asume Primordus has an actual physical body, that isn’t just a big beeing out of lava/magma?

What a shame. I thought the theory of every dragon being like their “element” was solid.
I mean we had the dead body Zaithan and planty Mordremoth.

He had a volcanic skull sticking out of lava similar to how the Mouth of Mordremoth was growing out of Maguuma Jungle.

When gliding close enough to Primordus you can actually see scales–quite gigantic ones, of course–on top of its snout. Given this, it definitely looks like it was a former tyrian being in origin, who got twisted and corrupted in the flesh through the ages by that same magic he uses; those scales are now nothing more than just a remnant of who it once was.
He also has an enormous underbite–poor thing must be in pain.

My research has found a thread between magic and the mind. The two are linked.
— Snaff

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

More thoughts later, but @Konig regarding the mirror- when you examine it as a human character, you get a bit more information: “The decorative elements on it resemble those you’ve seen used by mesmers, and those are Lyssa’s symbols around the edge. This was definitely god magic, though now it’s broken and has no magic left.” Further, when Taimi picks it up, you can see the back is in the image of one of the masks worn by the Avatar of Lyssa . I don’t like that the characters are so quick to take those things at face value, but the connection to Lyssa was there.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: lakdav.3694

lakdav.3694

First time playing through, I was in a constant “holy kitten ” state… up until the druid spirit first showed itself.

We had this setup, that Balthazar was up to no good. Using Lyssa’s magic mirror (that could have meant that she is in team Balthazar as well), then getting do Draconis Mons the asura and the tracking device is taken by a vine, so what, Melandru is against us too? Then the mysterious voice -that reminded me of whoever gave Glint’s egg to the Zephyrite master- seem to help us… who at some point was being speculated to be (related to) Abaddon, and my mind was going to old places that got me excited again. Like how Abaddon might have been the only reasonable god until they threw him into the realm of torment, the moral and religious ambiguity, how humanity is basically going to go through a similar existential crisis like the sylvari when they heard the call of Mordremoth…

But then the druid spirit showed up. I hope they are going to play an important role later, because it just feels such a missed/derailed opportunity right now.

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Posted by: Sock.2785

Sock.2785

Not gonna use spoiler tags, since the whole thread is tagged as a spoiler.


To briefly comment on the episode, I personally think that, overall, it was developed and resolved impressively, it unmasked some mysteries while giving rise to many more; it really surprised me, in a good way. Also the new map, Draconis Mons, is amazing–I still need to explore it with the attention it deserves, but a terraformed underground habitat? That was unexpected.

To touch on the mysteries, both solved and unsolved, we finally know who was posing as Lazarus all this time: a highly weakened, no-more-godlike Balthazar. This is a big deal, since this is the first time we directly interact with a human god (one of the former pantheon, so I’m not counting Kormir)–or, to use an asuran vocabulary, with “one of the Mist beings worshipped by humans”–and it is the truest depiction of such a being we’ve ever got.

We know that the God of War and Fire, or what remains of him, was able to conceal himself thanks to a powerful artifact, a magical mirror that, according to Kasmeer, appears to be godly in origin, enchanted by none other than Lyssa herself.
So long, a couple of question come to mind:

  1. How did Balthazar know about Lazarus and the implications that would follow?
  2. Can the enchanted mirror be truly linked to Lyssa herself or is it merely linkable to illusionary magic and mesmers in general?
  3. Who “dimmed the light” of Balthazar in the first place?

1. First things first, it appears that Balthazar was deprived of his godliness and this might have put him in a condition similar to the actual Lazarus: deadly wounded, closer to death than to life, in balance on the very brink of existence; perhaps this is how he met with Lazarus and decided to usurp his position.
Is the actual Lazarus, as Marjory suggests, still persisting though? Afterall, we did not interact in this episode with the supposed “switched” Lazarus’s aspect.

2. If the mirror actually comes from Lyssa, the possibilities are close to endless and possibly equally wrong, for example: was the goddess directly involved or did Balthazar manage to steal it? Did Lyssa aid Balthazar for a specific reason? And so on… you might see what I mean.
However, what if that mirror, given that it resulted in an image of Lazarus, was one of those artifacts, collected by Xera, hosting an aspect of Lazarus?

3. We don’t know who dimmed Balthazar’s light–or even when exactly–, what we know however is that it must be a group of people, or two at the very least, as Balthazar himself refers to the cause of his demise plurally. Was it the remaining five human gods? Did his brother Menzies, aided by Dhumm, finally succeed in taking him over? Perhaps it’s someone completely different and unheard of until now, but unfortunately I don’t think we can really tell at this point.


In addition, we don’t really know where the human gods took their magics from originally: if the magic they absorbed was native to Tyria or to somewhere else, but Balthazar definitely absorbed part of the magic that was accumulated inside the Maguuma Bloodstone and, just now, magic from an Elder Dragon. To me, this means that magic is ultimately its own thing, independent from the user, be it a dragon, a god or even a human.

Lastly, Balthazar appears as a human, as his depictions had suggested (if not human, it certainly resembles one); we know Kormir was certainly a human, and that Grenth might have been human, and that many representations of the human gods display them with human characteristics, even Abaddon: had the human gods been human in origin would explain the initial interest in the human race.

My research has found a thread between magic and the mind. The two are linked.
— Snaff

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

On Balthazar’s foe- my bet is either on the dragons or something new. The phrasing he uses is “But they will see me now,” indicating that ‘they’ hadn’t before. That rules out the established godly antagonists- Dhuum, and especially Menzies- and it might even indicate that the foe wasn’t aware that they were weakening Balthazar. That feels like it fits the dragons, although that would mean that the gods are more closely connected to Tyria than we’d already thought.

Or it could be something completely new and out of left field, in which case trying to anticipate it is a wasted effort. For now, I don’t think we have enough to go on to build any truly solid theories.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: ugrakarma.9416

ugrakarma.9416

I’m not familiar with GW1 lore, but his situation is related to the war with his brother, who according to the Wiki, has not been defined yet?

His half-brother, Menzies, waged a war against Balthazar’s realm of the Fissure of Woe. The outcome of this war, or if it even ended, is unknown.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Balthazar

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

Okay, having finaly played though it, here are my thoughts on the episode.
The episode was fine, but my enjoyment is hold back thanks to the execution.
What it brought to the table is very interesting, though.

Anyway:

  • The big reveal would really have benfitted from some foreshadowing. I don’t mind the twist, but we basicly exchange one old favorite, with another much more troublesome one. With this reveal, everything Mursaat related is checked off and we turn towards gods now and I don’t really like that. I really would have loved that they give the Mursaat plot a propper end, but that might be Raid content for later.
  • On paper, the powerless god(s), maybe having fallen from grace (loss of his light, could be through the other gods, or another being), trying to get back his power with the help of an ally (Lyssa I presume. Needing a disguise, does mean he has to hide from someone/thing) is actually an interesting take and I am curious about the background.
  • The reveal was way to quick and lacked foreshadowing. There were no hints, no establishing dialog, nothing. Every encounter we had with the gods, Balthazar in particular, made sense, because they fit there (like Balthazars shrine in Auric Basin). Prior to this episode there was barely any god talk, though. We could take White Mantle lines about “their true gods” and interprete them in a way, that the split group meant the six and not the Mursaat, but even that wouldn’t make much sense, since they could easily get help from the rest of the human race, which i still devoted to the gods.
  • From one moment to the other the plot goes into overdrive and while it is nice to have the little druid, Golem and Zinn interlude (loved that), it just felt weird to have Balthazar taking suddenly front and center without build up and having something really big happening more or less “offscreen”. I didn’t expect the extraction and fight of magic from two active eldar dragons by little machine would be so “calm”. There was no struggle shown. No earth shaking. Nothing. It was an event that came and went to serve a new villain/anti-hero
  • Balthazar litteraly killed the build up of the last few episodes. If it was “real” divine intervention, that stopped us from making a big mistake, I would have enjoyed it, but now (to quote a reddit user) we got this Star Trek: V situation: “Why does God need a Starship.” A great question to ponder, but it took center stage and took away my interest in the whole dragon build up, because it was displayed so lackluster.

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

Continuation:

  • While I try to see things in context of not only the one episode, but the whole season, because of the above mentioned points, my feelings regarding this appearently big plot point are mostly a fizzle.
  • With the introduction of a “fallen” god it opens opportunities to delve into several questions I don’t believe the plot is ready for. I mean one of the biggest mysteries is where they came from and where they got the humans from. What is a god? Is there even a purpose to them in light of the eldar dragons? They need to establish a reason for them to exist (like creating some balance, filling an neccessary role), so they don’t end up as “people” who just took the title of gods, because they were able to channel very powerful magic.
  • I really loved the map and the lore in it. M.O.X. was a nice trhowback and I would enjoy to have him involved more.
  • I really hope the whole hidden lab thing and Phlunt getting access to it, does bring us towards a clash with the hidden agendas of the Asura. With the info out in the open, it is very likely that the leaders will try to get this info to use for their own self-preservation ideas, that they are known for.
  • The mercenary thing is kinda weird. A human god should have no problem using his name to get followers to do his bidding. Even more so with the help of Lyssa. Overall the whole disguise thing is kinda weird for Balthi.
  • I am unsure how to feel about the redesign of Primordus. I prefer his GW1 design.

I can think of a reason for the whole sharade thing, though. Balthazar or the gods lost their power for some reason. Having been reduced to mortals, Balthazar sets out (with the help of another god (or more) to get his/their power back. maybe Balthazar was the most powerful, thus the task fell upon him. Guiding the white mantle to perform the ritual, breaking the bloodstone (because he wasn’t strong enough to do it) and taking the energy for an initial powerburst.
However that wasn’t enough, so he keeps up the disguise to wait for the next opportunity.
The bloodstone burst which occoured in combination with mordremoths dead allowed him to get also access to ED power. Maybe he was originaly trying to help with they slaying of another dragon to take his energy when he died.

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

Continueation:

  • I liked the tension between Kasmeer and Majory, but again, it would have benefitted if we would have seen Kas in at least one other episode beforehand. Now we get this big exposition dump and she runs away again. We still don’t know much about what is going on between them since S2 and I don’t believe Belinda is everything.
    I believe their plot does directly interfer with the Balthazar plot, because if we didn’t need them there at this point, they could have put the reveal of him at the end of the episode and have us ponder what it means for the next.
  • Taimi was actually not as annoying this time. While i actually like her dialog, her snarkyness get’s a bit annoying. My main problem in this is actually her role of deus ex machina plot device. Since HoT, she goes around with big data and analysis and showing us stuff without much explanation. Her saying that killing dragons might not be good, based on a simulation, which is based on a machine she doesn’t understand boggles my mind.
    First Odgen, then the Book in the library and now Taimi are straight up avoiding the answer to the role of the eldar dragon.
    We have several people who seem to know the answer, but instead they allow us to drive Tyria towards destruction. What is wrong with them?
  • I liked the druids, but wished we saw more of them in HoT and were able to talk more with them. Is there additional dialog if you are a ranger/druid?

Overall the episode got me my new favourite map, some interesting dialog (dispise my critcs), some big steps and reveals and a complete loss of momentum. Overall great, but a big step down after the E4.
For me it wasn’t: “Whoa, he is a god. Amazing. We put two EDs back to sleep? Awesome. So much big stuff”
It was more like: "Wait, what? Where do you come from? Were you even on the list? Aren’t you a god? Hello druids, goodbye druids. Hello dragon head, goodbye dragon head. Hello Balthazar puppies, goodbye balthazar puppies. Oh great, we are screwed. Who could have foreseen that sarcasm "

They should have taken more time with the big reveal. The end of the episode would have been much better, so they could have thrown in more hints, etc. and have it pay off.

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Posted by: perilisk.1874

perilisk.1874

  • The mercenary thing is kinda weird. A human god should have no problem using his name to get followers to do his bidding. Even more so with the help of Lyssa. Overall the whole disguise thing is kinda weird for Balthi.

Maybe he wanted to hide the fact that he was weakened or deposed to protect his godlike reputation? Or have any morally questionable acts he might undertake attributed to a known villain rather than a presumed hero, for the same reason?

There’s also the fact that, without godlike power to back up his claim of divinity, people might not have believed him anyway.

Ceterum censeo Sentim Punicam esse delendam

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Posted by: lakdav.3694

lakdav.3694

I wonder if we would have more to go on now if we had the Abaddon’s fall fractal way back, after Cut-throat Politics. I suspect that was a way for the devs to decide if we knew about ley-lines first, or about whatever is going on with the human gods. I suspect that fractal would have some of the key information we are missing, and this looks like the best time to go back to that project.

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

I wonder if we would have more to go on now if we had the Abaddon’s fall fractal way back, after Cut-throat Politics. I suspect that was a way for the devs to decide if we knew about ley-lines first, or about whatever is going on with the human gods. I suspect that fractal would have some of the key information we are missing, and this looks like the best time to go back to that project.

Absolutely agreed. Although, if voting for Thaumanova is what caused the gods to come back now, instead of in the middle of Scarlet’s arc… I think I’m happy we waited. The Season 3 model feels like a much better platform for this kind of plot, and ANet’s writing has improved immensely since those days.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

I would have no issue if they returned to the Abaddon fractal even though I didnt vote for it. Seems enough time has passed that we can forget about the whole voting deal thing now and move on.

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Posted by: Manimarco Devil.1790

Manimarco Devil.1790

You guys really want to see Scarlet outsmarting Abaddon and learning more “secret” information about dragons?

Battlelord Taeres

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

This chapter was disappointing.

Everything just happened way too fast. You have a monumental reveal of one of the human gods of Tyria and there is NO build-up, no foreshadowing. It’s just….bam. Balthazar. I didn’t even believe it was him at first! The plot just goes at the speed of light, you don’t even have time to take in a monumental event such as this. Then the story just bombards you with Fire Islands? Mysterious voices? Elder Druids? Mercenaries?! I barely had a clue what I was doing in Draconic Mons in the first place.

To top it off, the ending was even worse. Just more confusion. What happened to Balthazar? Primordius? Was he put to sleep? I did not have a clue what even happened.

IMO, Balthazar should’ve been revealed at the end to build hype for the final chapter, NOT the beginning. Or even better, reveal him at the end of the final chapter to hype up the expansion. But…it is what it is.

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

So, I was thinking about all that “Lazarus is Balthazar” thing, and made up my mind that story wise it would be better to have only one of them. Just crossing out any one of them would make the story plausable and logical. Just imagine:
1) There was no Lazarus. In Out of the Shadows Balthazar in all his glory appeared and burned the some White Mantle heretics. In Ep2 he returned to help protecting Aurene and forged a pact with PC. And in Ep5 he steals Taimi’s machine from a field test and reveals his motives. Baaam! Plot twist, real and shocking.
2) There is no Balthazar. Lazarus steals the machine for his power lust. No plot twist, not shocking, but lacks plotholes we have currently.

There is no logical reason for Balthazar to pretend Lazarus. At least I can think of just one: he was not choosing that disguise. How can it be? Well, maybe it was a cruel joke from Lyssa to turn him into human’s worst enemy (though it has some plot holes, cause Balthazar was not happy with us trying to lift his guise). And maybe during the bloodstone ritual Balthazar absorbed 4 Lazarus aspects and “melded” with him. And now there is an angry abated mursaat in the corner of his mind.

I just want something that makes some sence here, please, help me!

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

So, I was thinking about all that “Lazarus is Balthazar” thing, and made up my mind that story wise it would be better to have only one of them. Just crossing out any one of them would make the story plausable and logical. Just imagine:
1) There was no Lazarus. In Out of the Shadows Balthazar in all his glory appeared and burned the some White Mantle heretics. In Ep2 he returned to help protecting Aurene and forged a pact with PC. And in Ep5 he steals Taimi’s machine from a field test and reveals his motives. Baaam! Plot twist, real and shocking.
2) There is no Balthazar. Lazarus steals the machine for his power lust. No plot twist, not shocking, but lacks plotholes we have currently.

There is no logical reason for Balthazar to pretend Lazarus. At least I can think of just one: he was not choosing that disguise. How can it be? Well, maybe it was a cruel joke from Lyssa to turn him into human’s worst enemy (though it has some plot holes, cause Balthazar was not happy with us trying to lift his guise). And maybe during the bloodstone ritual Balthazar absorbed 4 Lazarus aspects and “melded” with him. And now there is an angry abated mursaat in the corner of his mind.

I just want something that makes some sence here, please, help me!

There are other options, though.

We see him being weakened and needing power.
While his blessing might still be felt throughout the world (even weakend), he might not have had enough power to break something like the bloodstone.

Balthazar searches for power. He want “his light” back. Even if he is the god of war, he might go for a more subtle route. Even more, if he really is the god of war, he will go tactical in his approach.

Most likely his actions are based on neccessarity. Meaning, he needed to change his approach to things. Even going so far as to forsaken the humans that pray to him.

Whispering the return of their false gods into the ears of white mantle, allowed him to raise subjects, that would destroy the sacred bloodstones (I believe that harming them would be a no go for the normal human citizen) and channel their energy towards him.
This either allowed him to get into our world (which he might not have been able to travel to, for yet unexplained reasons),or consume enough power to move more freely.

Nevertheless, being Lazarus allowed him to stay “hidden” from who, or whatever he is trying to avoid, thanks to his lack of power.
Though I don’t believe going around as someone who most of the world doesn’t want to come back, might not have been the best choice.

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Posted by: RyuDragnier.9476

RyuDragnier.9476

I would have no issue if they returned to the Abaddon fractal even though I didnt vote for it. Seems enough time has passed that we can forget about the whole voting deal thing now and move on.

Definitely a time for the Abaddon fractal. There are secrets there about the gods that we must learn…and see their true selves. I have a feeling we have already met Lyssa ingame.

You guys really want to see Scarlet outsmarting Abaddon and learning more “secret” information about dragons?

They don’t have to use Scarlet. Our priority is now getting info on the gods. Seeing Abaddon’s fall gives us all the info we’ll need, because the gods themselves will willingly reveal it in a flashback to the events.

[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald

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Posted by: Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324

Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324

There is no logical reason for Balthazar to pretend Lazarus. At least I can think of just one: he was not choosing that disguise. How can it be? Well, maybe it was a cruel joke from Lyssa to turn him into human’s worst enemy (though it has some plot holes, cause Balthazar was not happy with us trying to lift his guise). And maybe during the bloodstone ritual Balthazar absorbed 4 Lazarus aspects and “melded” with him. And now there is an angry abated mursaat in the corner of his mind.

I just want something that makes some sence here, please, help me!

Balthazar wanted the Bloodstone in the first place (he would have been immensely weak at the time), so he had to trick the White Mantle in order to gain their trust.

Guild Wars 2 Wiki FR contributor

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

Balthazar wanted the Bloodstone in the first place (he would have been immensely weak at the time), so he had to trick the White Mantle in order to gain their trust.

First, we don’t know if he used mursaat disguise before absorbing bloodstone. He didn’t need to wisper anyone anything, WM would carry on with ritual anyway and it would fail because of the aspect switch. Balthazar just needed to be near epicenter during the explosion, and thats not a hard thing even for weakened god.
Second thing, why continue the masquerade in Ep2? Noone exept PC and 2 exalted could see him there. He wanted our trust, and telling the truth then was the best way. He kitten it up, we started mistrusting him, and faultered his plans. Yey, great strategic planing from a god of war.

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Posted by: Walhalla.5473

Walhalla.5473

Balthazar wanted the Bloodstone in the first place (he would have been immensely weak at the time), so he had to trick the White Mantle in order to gain their trust.

First, we don’t know if he used mursaat disguise before absorbing bloodstone. He didn’t need to wisper anyone anything, WM would carry on with ritual anyway and it would fail because of the aspect switch. Balthazar just needed to be near epicenter during the explosion, and thats not a hard thing even for weakened god.

The ritual was mentioned by Bauer after “Lazarus” came there, so its safe to assume that the ritual idea came from Balthazar, disguised as Lazarus.

Once the ritual is complete, we can proceed with our leader’s virtuous pursuits!

It does make sense why he appeared as Lazarus before the White Mantle back then. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to get near that Bloodstone.

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

The ritual was mentioned by Bauer after “Lazarus” came there, so its safe to assume that the ritual idea came from Balthazar, disguised as Lazarus.

Once the ritual is complete, we can proceed with our leader’s virtuous pursuits!

It does make sense why he appeared as Lazarus before the White Mantle back then. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to get near that Bloodstone.

Bauer didn’t directly mentioned who this leader was. It could be Xera.
As for Balthazar, he obviously had some of gods powers before absorbing Bloodstone. Otherwise how he would know about the secret White Mantle project? He is obviously non omniscent or mindreader (because there was no way we could trick such a being with our mirror trap). So, how exactly B. got to know about Lazarus reanimation project? Obvious and logical answer: plot hole. “I am a fan who tryes to patch the plot holes instead of payed story writers” answer: he had some god powers left, like teleportation or invisibility, and used them for reconnaissance. With these he could join the ritual without any disguise.
But, one more time, even if he impostered Lazarus before the ritual, why continue the sharade in Ep2 when he wanted to gain our trust and there was noone besides us in egg chamber?

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Posted by: Walhalla.5473

Walhalla.5473

The ritual was mentioned by Bauer after “Lazarus” came there, so its safe to assume that the ritual idea came from Balthazar, disguised as Lazarus.

Once the ritual is complete, we can proceed with our leader’s virtuous pursuits!

It does make sense why he appeared as Lazarus before the White Mantle back then. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to get near that Bloodstone.

Bauer didn’t directly mentioned who this leader was. It could be Xera.
As for Balthazar, he obviously had some of gods powers before absorbing Bloodstone. Otherwise how he would know about the secret White Mantle project? He is obviously non omniscent or mindreader (because there was no way we could trick such a being with our mirror trap). So, how exactly B. got to know about Lazarus reanimation project? Obvious and logical answer: plot hole. “I am a fan who tryes to patch the plot holes instead of payed story writers” answer: he had some god powers left, like teleportation or invisibility, and used them for reconnaissance. With these he could join the ritual without any disguise.
But, one more time, even if he impostered Lazarus before the ritual, why continue the sharade in Ep2 when he wanted to gain our trust and there was noone besides us in egg chamber?

Sorry but Xera wasn’t his leader. Xera was the High Inquisitor of the White Mantle, leading the Inquisition Branch of the Mantle. And Bauer was someone who, while loyal to the Mursaat, disliked the Inquisitors. And Bauer is from the Justiciar Branch, he wouldn’t call Xera his supreme leader even in his nightmares.

Clearly the Ritual was there to power up Lazarus/Balthazar. ( its even confirmed by the devs in the AMA that he came to the Mantle for this reason ) There was no other reason for doing such a ritual.

How Blathazar knew about this is a good question and since he wasn’t a god at that time I don’t have an answer. Also its weird that he didn’t drop the disguise after he gained the magic from the bloodstone. ( devs were explaining it but it doesn’T make that much sense and there were no hints about this in the game )

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Posted by: perilisk.1874

perilisk.1874

How Blathazar knew about this is a good question and since he wasn’t a god at that time I don’t have an answer.

Given that any plan hatched by Balthazar would likely involve charging in and blowing things up, the most plausible guess is that the entire plan was arranged by someone else with a penchant for subterfuge (e.g. “E” or Lyssa), and said party has a network of spies and agents (e.g., the Shining Blade), some of which keep tabs on the doings of the White Mantle.

Ceterum censeo Sentim Punicam esse delendam

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

Whatever you rate this episode, I guess we can assume that the further story may move away a bit from dragons towards more gw1-centric characters. Which is a good thing.

Episode started out cringy and boring, but after landing on the new map it got better. I almost expected Primordus to give us Deathwing 2.0. I enjoyed gliding in the volcano, even though many textures in there were really low resolution. I get the melting effect, but not to that extent.

Konig basically said what there was to be said, just one small thing from me. ArenaNet really missed the opportunity for Charr NPC/PC to comment on never trusting gods and how human haven’t learnt it from Charr mistakes.

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

ArenaNet missed a lot of opportunities for race-specific dialogue there. Charr should be really raring for the kill, while humans really should be showing some angst towards fighting one of their gods, possibly only truly being resolved when Balthazar goes “I don’t care if I destroy your world in the process”. Even the asura, sylvari, and norn could have specific dialogues if you think about it. Instead, we have the same generic “oh, guess we’re fighting a god” regardless of race.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Eluveitie.1290

Eluveitie.1290

Konig basically said what there was to be said, just one small thing from me. ArenaNet really missed the opportunity for Charr NPC/PC to comment on never trusting gods and how human haven’t learnt it from Charr mistakes.

Not in the episode itself, but at least in ambient dialogue, these points are adressed. Humans are reluctant to help hunt their god down and doubt what to do. Charr and Asura mock the humans and Balthazar. Sylvari question the god’s nature.