Guild Wars 2

It’s time for the finale.

I know we got the announcement picture last week, but aside from “hey we are going back to Orr” there wasn’t that much and I was kinda lazy and occupied.

So let’s do the ususal and prepare for the last episode with the new trailer:
One Path Ends

Observations

• Lot’s of old footage

• An six eyed flamegolem with following statues of Abbadon? I don’t have many hopes.

• A lich, but i expect us going more towards the temples in Orr?

• Another new flame golem type?

• A new coast? I don’t know of any grassy coast with a Tyrian transport ship, however the structure hidden in the back looks like a lighthouse. Maybe it’s claw Island?

• new lilac area, looks interesting

• Undead are back, with Gorillas… I was hoping for living ones, though.

• A flying Monkey and an undead dragon that isn’t Tequattle…

• Lava in Orr?

Someone suggests the voice at the end being Livia, but I don’t know much about that.

It seems we are looking for allies among Elder Dragons and/or their minions as a way to fight Balthazar.

pretty sure that six eyed flamegolem is the pyroclastic jade construct from ember bay

To me the trailer sounded almost like we’re gonna treatiece with the Risen. What if that Wraith in the trailer is the new “leader”

The last landscape looks like Orr with green plants to me, so I’m guessing the predictions of Ep 6’s map being a section of cleansed Orr terrain will bear fruit. So to speak.

Let’s once again move with the lines, hoping that I understood every word correctly.

Braham: “Your divine lord is threatening all of Tyria. If another Dragon dies, we all die.”

It looks like Braham (if it is Braham speaking) had a chat with Taimi and is momentarily at peace with Jormag and as a consequence he’s totally on our side again–or if anything he’s against Balthazar. He’s possibly speaking with either Marjory or Kasmeer here.
EDIT: it’s not Braham speaking, but the norn PC.

Generic krytan female voice(?): “At a time when Elder Dragons endanger the whole world, Kryta must make uncommon allies.”

I don’t know if we’ve already met with the ghostly figure–the human female–shown at 0:31, or who it even is to speak, but the risen being the “uncommon allies” are definitely a possibility. The risen wraith shown in the trailer could be the one commanding the remaining risen (as Amaimon also suggested), or some of them at least, and it could be the one whom we’ll have to arrange the supposed alliance with. Interestingly, this wraith has an azure aura (remembrance of orrian magic perhaps, or orrian scrolls), as opposed to the typical zhaitany green, a unique feature (if I’m not mistaken)–I wonder if its identity (in other words, who it once was) will be of any importance.
EDIT: it sounds like Anise is speaking this line.

Mercenary 1(?): “These roaming undead ended hinder the flow of energy!”
Mercenary 2(?): “We must feed them to the lava, to his fires!”

Jaken.6801

• Lava in Orr?

If these lines are indeed spoken by Balthazar’s mercenaries [“We must feed [the overcharged undead] to the lava, to his fires!”] the “God of Fire” has already had an influence in the region, either directly or indirectly, as in: either he produced the lava and the fires or those were already present and he just took advantage of them… given how powerful he has become though I suspect he is the direct cause of this inferno.
However, it sounds like these lines have a ghostly tinge, I wonder what that could mean.

In addition, the figure at 0:40 resembles an earth elemental, main difference being that it is on the verge of melting and it’s now formed by igneous rocks (duh).

Livia (?): “The time has come. You ready to fullfil a prophecy? Go! Save the world. Save Tyria.”

I didn’t personally recognize Livia’s voice (got the clue on reddit) but it definitely appears to be hers–I wonder if she’s the azure wraith herself. Also, the word prophecy here can’t not recall to our minds the Flameseeker Prophecies; “the exact wording of the [flameseeker] prophecies is unknown [and] Glint seems to be the only one fully aware of it” (quoting from the wiki)–either we’re talking about a different prophecy here (in the trailer) or Glint was purposely omitting facts to the old tyrian heroes, or perhaps she misinterpreted them herself. Would Aurene even play a big role in this “new” prophecy?
Funnily enough, the very name of the Flameseeker Prophecies could totally fit with Balthazar.


Nice to see that overgrowth is slowly taking roots, and its presence ultimately confirms we’ll be heading to the orrian peninsula. What appears to be stationed sylvari are a really nice touch.

I personally hope (and I can’t really tell why) the new risen dragon shown in the trailer is not a risen wyvern but, from the small glimpse we got, it looks like it will be.


In addition, I doubt Abaddon’s statues will be located in the new orrian map–following his demise, in fact, the other gods were determined to erase him from history and such big representations would have been the first to go. It’s very probable then that the new fractal will revolve around Abaddon, and possibly the other gods.


P.S. The “six eyed flamegolem”, as you described it, is part of the “old footage”, as Killerbot already said. And… the “flying monkey” is a risen knight. I was like: “A flying monkey? How did I miss it?!” lol

The ‘generic krytan female voice’ is Anise. I’m betting that first line (I can’t tell if it’s Braham or the male norn PC) is directed towards her.

With the glimpse at the oakheart, and the ghostly voice talking about a flow of energy, my first guess was that it’s a druid. With as little as we have to go off of, though, it’s hard to say.

One other big bomb in here- the text at the start says “The human gods have left Tyria, but one stayed behind.” That implies that Balthazar never joined the Exodus, and if true, it completely upends all the theories we’ve had about what happened to him.

EDIT: Another thought, regarding the blue wraith, and the line about making “uncommon allies”- the Pact in Orr has had access to a site that can mentally free dragon minions for about five years now. Perhaps they’ve been making use of it?

My observations:

• Up to 0:30 – all old shots, nothing new (that six-eyed thing was the Pyroclastic Jade Construct from Ember Bay, you can even see Ember Bay background there), except the line “one stayed behind” – that’s implying Balthazar has been around for the past 1,330 years or at the very least the past 260 years since Nightfall. Is this a hyperbole about Balthazar, talking about another god (Dwayna was in Tyria in the past after all), or has Balthazar truly been in the shadows twiddling his thumbs for the past thousand plus years?
• First voiced dialogue comes from male norn PC.
• Second voiced dialogue comes from Anise. Why is she here, I wonder?
• 0:31 – Orrian ghost, looks similar in clothing to the ones that show up during Cathedral of Silence story mission.
• 0:33 – Ice-infused Risen Wraith?
• 0:38 – why are there statues of Abaddon? Knowledge of Abaddon was wiped clean of the world – or attempted to be. Giant statues in an obvious place would not have survived…
• 0:40 – Does the Flowstone Elemental return!?
• 0:41 and 0:44 – Seems Orr isn’t as verdant as many hope, which I like. But there is now clear vegetation growing. These kinds of plants could easily be added to old Orr maps upon completing The Source of Orr, replacing old corals or fully out of reach of players landing on them/colliding with them (or just allow no collision happening).
• 0:47 – Seems we’ll be fighting more of Balthazar’s mercenaries!
• 0:50 – This doesn’t look like Orrian soil, or cliffs. So perhaps we’re at another edge of Orr in this map, similar to Straits of Devastation. This would put the map at Scavenger’s Causeway, most likely.
• 0:52 – I cannot tell if this risen giant is poisoned, or is influenced perhaps by Mordremoth’s energy?
• 0:52-55 – “These all new undead hinder the flow of energy. We must feed him to the lava, to his fires.” Are they referring to Primordus, or to Balthazar here? Probably the former… The voice is also ghostly – you can hear the common effect used on ghost voice overs. Perhaps the voice of the Orrian ghost at1?
• 0:57 – New undead appearance. Looks like an evolved Risen Knight (more buff, lacks draconic head, but same harpy/imp skeleton) (EDIT: Nope, just an upclose of the Risen Knight so that the draconic head is off screen)
• 0:59 – New dragon champion appearance? That thing looks epic. A lot closer to the original Tequatl etc. concept art than Tequatl etc. and SO much more kitten looking.
• 1:02 – Hmmm, this looks a hell o a lot more verdant than the earlier Orr shots. Not your usual Orrian architecture (lack of circles) but I do believe it is such, probably on the far end like the Oakheart shot?
• 1:02-1:06 – “The time has come, be ready to fulfill the prophecy” – Are we talking about Glint’s legacy going to the next step, or perhaps is this an allusion to this old foretelling about a spire of light saving us from the Elder Dragons? (second conversation); Don’t recognize the voice actor, but maybe, just maybe, Glint from Herald skills?
• 1:08 – Sparks around that Abomination, but not very prevalent. Skill effect used on it, or perhaps he has some of Kralkatorrik’s / Glint’s energy?
• 1:11 – Hard to tell, but it looks like that Risen Knight has water dripping from it… DSD energy? Are we seeing risen with one of any dragon’s energy now?
• Final voice actor line sounds like one of the generic human female voices, often used for female bandits. Could explain the lack of care in the line, if it’s coming from one of Balthazar’s mercenaries – say, after being defeated by the PC.

Jaken.6801:

Observations

• An six eyed flamegolem with following statues of Abbadon? I don’t have many hopes.
• A lich, but i expect us going more towards the temples in Orr?
• Another new flame golem type?
• A new coast? I don’t know of any grassy coast with a Tyrian transport ship, however the structure hidden in the back looks like a lighthouse. Maybe it’s claw Island?
• A flying Monkey and an undead dragon that isn’t Tequattle…

• Pyroclastic Jade Construct from Ember Bay.
• Risen Wraith, not lich, but now in shade of blue instead of usual green.
• Burning Earth Elemental, basically. I suspect Flowstone Elemental gone GW2.
• Orr has its own lighthouses. We’re likely looking towards Scavenger’s Causeway.
• Undead Wyvern, actually. You can see wings on the forearms.

Vesuvius.9874:

It seems we are looking for allies among Elder Dragons and/or their minions as a way to fight Balthazar.

Amaimon.7823:

To me the trailer sounded almost like we’re gonna treatiece with the Risen. What if that Wraith in the trailer is the new “leader”

I’m doubtful. I bet that line is our lead in to our reason to go to Elona.

We’re going to look to Joko for aid.

Would explain the leaks showing a waypoint in the Bone Palace.

It would be VERY weird for us to treaty / ally with mindless hordes that lack free will. And the other line about the risen “blocking magic” and that someone must “feed them to his fire” implies that either a) Balthazar’s mercenaries are going dragon minion hunting, or b) we’re going dragon minion hunting.

Sock.2785:

Braham: “Your divine lord is threatening all of Tyria. If another Dragon dies, we all die.”

That’s not Braham – nothing like Braham – it’s the male norn PC voice.

Sock.2785:

Generic krytan female voice(?): “At a time when Elder Dragons endanger the whole world, Kryta must make uncommon allies.”

And that’s Anise.

Sock.2785:

Mercenary 1(?): “These roaming undead ended the flow of energy!”
Mercenary 2(?): “We must feed them to the lava, to his fires!”

Nope. You can tell by the soft echo effect that the speaker in the first part is a ghost. Likely the Orrian female ghost seen at 0:31. It’s also the same singular voice.

Sock.2785:

Livia (?): “The time has come. You ready to fullfil a prophecy? Go! Save the world. Save Tyria.”

[/quote]You’re attributing one voice actor to two very clearly separate ones.

The second line – “Go, save the world, save Tyria” – line is said by a clearly younger voice (at least the first one sounds like a “mock old voice” to me), which is the same voice actor who does a bunch of generic female voice acting, including various bandits.

I don’t respond to your extrapolations since it feels like you got the lines’ speakers way off.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

One other big bomb in here- the text at the start says “The human gods have left Tyria, but one stayed behind.” That implies that Balthazar never joined the Exodus, and if true, it completely upends all the theories we’ve had about what happened to him.

That line has three possible meanings:

1) Hyperbole about Balthazar’s return.
2) Balthazar never left during the Exodus.
3) A different god never left / returned early enough that it might as well be that they never left.

I’m personally betting the first one. Anet has a habit of exaggerating things for hype. It seems unlikely to me that one of the gods – especially Balthazar – can remain in the shadows without any major influence on the world for a thousand years.

However, the third possibility does lead to an interesting twist… what if the line refers to Kormir, who never left with the Exodus? She did promise that she’d forever watch over Elona, and would not have held the same lesson the other five got during the Exodus while knowing enough to not interfere willy-nilly because of the kitten she caused as a mortal.

Thus finding and working with Kormir and Joko to stop the Elder Dragons without killing them, and stop Balthazar’s uncaring quest for power, can become the premise for the next expansion.

0:36: The Priestess of Balthazar herself.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Priestess_of_Balthazar

I’m skeptical, I will not bet on anything epic. “Them” whom balthazar referred to in episode 5 is some entity or “thing” that has managed to manipulate the undeads and are sucking the energy of balthazar through the statues in Orr.
, we will go to orr with his priestess to clean up the mess and calm down the Balthazar. Orr will only be a small instance like Rata Novus.

If the voice saying “Your divine lord…” is the male Norn PC, then I have solid hope that we at least get some good race specific dialogue this time. I was a bit disappointed when my human and charr both gave 0 kittens about having to attack Balthazar.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, the third possibility does lead to an interesting twist… what if the line refers to Kormir, who never left with the Exodus? She did promise that she’d forever watch over Elona, and would not have held the same lesson the other five got during the Exodus while knowing enough to not interfere willy-nilly because of the kitten she caused as a mortal.
.

Or “them” that messed up Balthazar “light” is Joko, in some way, he gotta control of Orr zombies and his hidden artifacts, perhaps something powerful enough to mess with gods.

So my theory, After Zhaitan defeat, Palawa Joko become some sort of zombie master of former Zhaitan army. The “unlikely allies”, will be former balthazar mercenaries and even the scatered White Mantle.

The girl, is funny the place shes located is called “Godslost swap”.

The Godslost Swamp is an area of Queensdale, in which the sunken Temple of the Ages resides. It was formerly part of the Black Curtain. Part of the swamp has been overrun with Portals to the Underworld, due to a weakening of the barriers between Tyria and the Mists.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Godslost_Swamp

The Temple of the Ages is a point of interest within the Godslost Swamp. Rising up out of the swamp is the partially submerged ruins of a temple. The temple was a sacred location in Kryta where the six Human Gods were worshiped. The temple was destroyed when Orr rose and the resulting tidal wave sunk it. The ruined remains of the statues dedicated to each of the gods remain on the site and still glow with power.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Temple_of_the_Ages

this area is full of god related stuff:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necromancer_

The human gods may have left this world, but I can tell you some powerful presence never left here. Evil things roam freely here, looking to feast on the living.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• Risen Wraith, not lich, but now in shade of blue instead of usual green.

Could be either/or. They use the same model.

On the topic of old legends, I’d like to throw another one in for consideration.

@Ugrakarma: There’s more than one Priestess of Balthazar (just as there is more than one Priest of Balthazar). And that last quote of yours doesn’t refer to the gods, actually, but the Shadow Behemoth and its ilk – or more accurately, the leaking influence of the Underworld in the area, caused by some old Necromancer’s foolish attempts to open a portal to the Underworld.

@Squee: One can hope…

@Aaron: Well, semantics but wraiths were the common foe; not all risen liches had the wraith model, just the generically named ones (and a couple others), and they were very few.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Ugrakarma: There’s more than one Priestess of Balthazar (just as there is more than one Priest of Balthazar).

Oh yeah but shes the only one using the exact model of the trailer, perhaps shes unnamed, just generic name “pristess of balthazar”.

The other one is on our home instance, “Priestess Anya”, the only one named, when u have a human that choosen balthazar as god. And theres a male on DR, unnamed too, just generic “priest of balthazar”.

Aaron Ansari.1604

[…] the Pact in Orr has had access to a site that can mentally free dragon minions for about five years now. Perhaps they’ve been making use of it?

That’s an interesting approach; I doubt Twitchy the risen chicken would have been the sole specimen to undergo the ritual. It could definitely work if done correctly.

Aaron Ansari.1604

On the topic of old legends, I’d like to throw another one in for consideration.

Interesting connection… did Alain, in his last mission, come in contact with something or someone that sparked visions in his mind, which he then inevitably distorted?
Also, if I recall correctly, wasn’t a similar “hobo model” spotted during various (can’t remember which) “Season 2” story steps hiding and suspiciously looking over us?

Aaron Ansari.1604

“The human gods have left Tyria, but one stayed behind.” That implies that Balthazar never joined the Exodus, and if true, it completely upends all the theories we’ve had about what happened to him.

By how it is phrased, it’s definitely suggested that Balthazar was not “left behind”; perhaps he was forced to stay, or in other words he found himself unable to leave Tyria.
However, one crazy theory that came up following your find of (what appears to be) Balthazar’s dagger in the Bastion of the Penitent might be a bit more credible now: Lazarus was Balthazar’s alter ego since the beginning.
If the Abaddon statues shown in the trailer are an indication of the new fractal (and it is highly probable to be the case), we might get an answer to what happened to Balthazar when Abaddon was defeated and imprisoned. Perhaps it was then that the “God of War” was weakened and he’s being trying to get his power back ever since (since the Exodus), but an unexpected (and quite recent) event deprived him of the magic he had slowly been gathering for centuries, hence why, given the opportunity, he’s now all: “kitten Tyria and kitten the humans”.

Konig Des Todes.2086

• That’s not Braham – nothing like Braham – it’s the male norn PC voice.
• […] It’s also the same singular [ghostly] voice.
• You’re attributing one voice actor to two very clearly separate ones.

• My mistake. It definitely isn’t Braham to speak the first line but the norn PC, it makes more sense anyway given how he speaks about the Dragons.
  Who are we speaking to here then? Perhaps to Anise, letting Kryta know of the impending danger, catalyzing Kryta’s intervention in the process; perhaps it’s the Priestess of Balthazar we’re speaking to, as “your divine lord” is very specific to Balthazar.
• To me, it honestly sounds like those are two different voices (and both would have a ghostly tinge, as I also mentioned earlier); what made me associate those to the mercenaries was this particular line: “We must feed them to the lava, to his fires!”, as in feed the overcharged risen’s magic to Balthazar.
  In alternative it could be “our side” speaking here, implying that “feed them to the lava” is just a way of saying: “we need to destroy them”, but that would kind of be counterproductive to us as magic would dangerously flow unconstrained once more or even intercepted by Balthazar anyway, which would be equally dangerous.
• Can’t really tell if that’s the case, they sound very similar to me. Regardless, I think the similarity to Livia’s original voice is definitely there, and with all the “GW1 characters” we’ve recently come in contact with I think Livia’s presence is not impossible–quite the contrary in fact.

Konig Des Todes.2086

• Sparks around that Abomination […]
• […] that Risen Knight has water dripping from it… DSD energy? Are we seeing risen with one of any dragon’s energy now?

• I think that effect is not different from that shown with the imbued destroyer aberrations (which, by the way, is also very similar to Bolt’s effects); it’s some sort of a generic “overcharged with magic” effect I guess.
• I’m pretty sure that “water dripping effect” is caused by the orrian weapons wielded by the risen knight.
  As far as we know, Kralkatorrik and Steve are still alive and active (unlike Primordus and Jormag, which are now back to a dormant state), there’s no reason for their magic to be heavily displayed in risen and the examples you posed are clearly not indications of such anyway.

I thought that Flameseeker Prophecies ended with GW1 Prophecies. (Edit: Just confirmed that it did.)

There could be more than one prophecy in the GW1 universe.

Sock.2785:

Aaron Ansari.1604

“The human gods have left Tyria, but one stayed behind.” That implies that Balthazar never joined the Exodus, and if true, it completely upends all the theories we’ve had about what happened to him.

By how it is phrased, it’s definitely suggested that Balthazar was not “left behind”; perhaps he was forced to stay, or in other words he found himself unable to leave Tyria.
However, one crazy theory that came up following your find of (what appears to be) Balthazar’s dagger in the Bastion of the Penitent might be a bit more credible now: Lazarus was Balthazar’s alter ego since the beginning.
If the Abaddon statues shown in the trailer are an indication of the new fractal (and it is highly probable to be the case), we might get an answer to what happened to Balthazar when Abaddon was defeated and imprisoned. Perhaps it was then that the “God of War” was weakened and he’s being trying to get his power back ever since (since the Exodus), but an unexpected (and quite recent) event deprived him of the magic he had slowly been gathering for centuries, hence why, given the opportunity, he’s now all: “kitten Tyria and kitten the humans”.

If you are right than Balthazar is behind the Unseen One plot, is infact the mysterious Unseen that Abaddon was summoning to the Domain of Fear and the man behind the man of everything in Guild Wars!

That would mean that Menzies’s forces’ not actually speaking to Abaddon’s forces like Dhuum’s forces(we only see them in the same general area) were may not be a coincidence.

The only indication that they are allied with Abaddon are Forgotten and since Balthazar is likely using his Ghostly minions to perpetuate the façade that he’s still on the side of the Gods they’d believe anything he tell them.

All they know for a fact is that the armies of Menzies are tracking down the Margonite leaders. No actual statements on the actual reason.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

If you are right than Balthazar is behind the Unseen One plot, is infact the mysterious Unseen that Abaddon was summoning to the Domain of Fear and the man behind the man of everything in Guild Wars!

That would mean that Menzies’s forces’ not actually speaking to Abaddon’s forces like Dhuum’s forces(we only see them in the same general area) were may not be a coincidence.

The only indication that they are allied with Abaddon are Forgotten and since Balthazar is likely using his Ghostly minions to perpetuate the façade that he’s still on the side of the Gods they’d believe anything he tell them.

All they know for a fact is that the armies of Menzies are tracking down the Margonite leaders. No actual statements on the actual reason.

Now, that would be twisted…

However, you can bring them into contact with one another without them fighting, so if that does turn out to be the case, I’d consider it a retcon.

(I was going to cite the Darknesses, but I don’t think there’s anything that actually indicates that the Darknesses are actually Menzies’ followers)

draxynnic.3719:

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

If you are right than Balthazar is behind the Unseen One plot, is infact the mysterious Unseen that Abaddon was summoning to the Domain of Fear and the man behind the man of everything in Guild Wars!

That would mean that Menzies’s forces’ not actually speaking to Abaddon’s forces like Dhuum’s forces(we only see them in the same general area) were may not be a coincidence.

The only indication that they are allied with Abaddon are Forgotten and since Balthazar is likely using his Ghostly minions to perpetuate the façade that he’s still on the side of the Gods they’d believe anything he tell them.

All they know for a fact is that the armies of Menzies are tracking down the Margonite leaders. No actual statements on the actual reason.

Now, that would be twisted…

However, you can bring them into contact with one another without them fighting, so if that does turn out to be the case, I’d consider it a retcon.

(I was going to cite the Darknesses, but I don’t think there’s anything that actually indicates that the Darknesses are actually Menzies’ followers)

Also, wasn’t the avatar of Balthazar present in the cutscene near the end of NF when Lyssa was telling us the gods were about to leave us alone and that they were giving Kormir her “special gift”? I know only Lyssa spoke to us, but I’m pretty sure all the God’s avatars were present.
If he was removed from the pantheon before that moment, why would he be represented with the other gods?

Indeed, Balthazar’s avatar was there in that cinematic.

Also about Abaddon and Balthazar potentially being allied during Nightfall:

Mocking shrine to the Eternals of Balthazar who have been corrupted by Abaddon.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shrine_of_the_Traitors

Why would Abaddon twist his allies’ minions and then mock the act?

And as for Menzies’ forces working with Abaddon’s:

“This vast plane of shadow is plagued by torment creatures. Demons lurk within the repressive darkness, waiting to step through rifts that give them passage to Elona, Tyria, and beyond. Within these dark confines Balthazar’s accursed half-brother Menzies has staged his forces. With Abaddon defeated, they turn now to fight alongside Mallyx the Unyielding in desperation.”

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Virashak

They “turn now” to fight along Mallyx with Abaddon’s defeat, and work alongside torment demons too.

@Squee: Technically speaking, it was avatars and representatives that were present, and only Lyssa’s Muse spoke. It could have simply been an Eternal that was present there.

@Konig: Also technically speaking, the Shrine of the Traitors description comes from a datamine and is no more canon than Arachnia is. Furthermore, Virashak’s information could have been coming from Balthazar’s deception. However, the fact that Torment Demons and Shadow Army never fight suggests to me that we’re not looking at a ‘the Shadow Army was there to hinder Abaddon rather than to help him’ scenario, unless they were playing a longer game than Tyria had time for.

draxynnic.3719:

@Squee: Technically speaking, it was avatars and representatives that were present, and only Lyssa’s Muse spoke. It could have simply been an Eternal that was present there.

@Konig: Also technically speaking, the Shrine of the Traitors description comes from a datamine and is no more canon than Arachnia is. Furthermore, Virashak’s information could have been coming from Balthazar’s deception. However, the fact that Torment Demons and Shadow Army never fight suggests to me that we’re not looking at a ‘the Shadow Army was there to hinder Abaddon rather than to help him’ scenario, unless they were playing a longer game than Tyria had time for.

I have a hard time thinking one of Balthazaar’s eternals, or ANY of Balthazaar’s underlings would be standing with the other avatars if he had fallen from the Pantheon. Avatars or not, they are representatives sent by the gods. If Balthazaar falls from the Pantheon, I don’t think the other gods will keep his employees around, much less have one represent a God that isn’t there and speak to us.

Whatever may or may not have been happening with Balthazar, the gods clearly have a habit of sending their representatives to speak for them. Balthazar’s Eternals still dwell in the Fissure of Woe and responded to prayers to Balthazar in GW1’s time. It’s entirely reasonable that Balthazar could have a few Eternals nominated as his spokesperson to respond to summons, attend meetings, and so on.

As for having fallen… who says he was fallen (or regarded as having fallen) at the time? Perhaps he stayed behind for a reason the other gods agreed with at the time, and it wasn’t until sometime between the games that he came off the rails. Or perhaps he was hiding the fact that he was still on Tyria from the other gods, and at the time of the Gate of Madness mission the other gods didn’t know that he wasn’t where he was supposed to be?

Note that I think it’s more likely that the line is simply hyperbole – but there is the possibility that it isn’t.

draxynnic.3719:

@Konig: Also technically speaking, the Shrine of the Traitors description comes from a datamine and is no more canon than Arachnia is.

True, however, we actually see a series of statues of Balthazar, blackened and never aflame, within a Margonite stronghold. We also know of eternals turned betrayer, though Abaddon is never (elsewhere) presented as the cause.

So both the shrine, and the act described (in part) happened, unlike what we can say for Arachnia.

draxynnic.3719:

Furthermore, Virashak’s information could have been coming from Balthazar’s deception. However, the fact that Torment Demons and Shadow Army never fight suggests to me that we’re not looking at a ‘the Shadow Army was there to hinder Abaddon rather than to help him’ scenario, unless they were playing a longer game than Tyria had time for.

The first part requires for Balthazar to have pretended to be an ally at that time, but the presented idea is that Balthazar was not for some time, isn’t it? Contradictory then.

We also see Shadow Army alongside Margonites in the Domain of Secrets, I believe, or very close by – without fighting.

Well, without the background text, the shrine could be a memorial to a fall Balthazar had kept hidden from the other gods – the Realm of Torment would be a logical place for it. Heck, it could mean that the trigger for the other gods finding out was Kormir’s ascension and discovery of Abaddon’s dirt on Balthazar…

I don’t really see much of a contradiction there – the hypothesis that Balthazar was going against the other gods but was hiding that he was going against the other gods covers the apparent contradiction.

As for Shadow Army alongside Margonites and not fighting – I did raise that point myself earlier in this thread. I should point out that I’m raising reasonable doubt here – the balance of probabilities is certainly biased towards Balthazar and Abaddon being enemies at the time. Heck, it’s even possible that if Balthazar did remain on Tyria the whole time, his motivation was to be there to fight Abaddon should Abaddon break out, and he was somehow prevented from getting involved… or was waiting to see if the mortals could handle it before stepping in himself.

I would argue the Realm of Torment would be a terrible place for such a monument, because until shortly before Nightfall (exact timeframe unknown), the Forgotten – faithful servants to the five – were in control over the entire realm, all the Margonite cities and structures and used them as prisons.

So unless the shrine was very, very recent, this would basically be putting up a neon sign saying “Balthazar’s on my team, love Abaddon.”

Mickey Frogeater.1470

If you are right than Balthazar is behind the Unseen One plot

More than being uniquely orchestrated by Balthazar, my view would be that the “mursaat plot” was driven, or thought out, by the entire pantheon–this would pose Lyssa’s mirror as a key part of said plan, given that it particularly reflected the image of a mursaat. In addition to this, we don’t know how the mursaat acknowledged their prophesied demise anyway (as far as I can remember)–in other words, I’m implying the human gods could have been the responsible for spreading dread and fear amongst the mursaat, to ultimately preserve Balthazar and themselves.
In this view then, Balthazar’s presence on Tyria (either forced by his loss of power or not) would have been crucial to negate, or at least slow down, Abaddon’s return.


Another view (potentially attachable, in some ways, to the previous one) could be that, priorly to the Exodus, Balthazar shared Abaddon’s convictions and agreed with him in secret, given that “releasing magic into Tyria” caused endless wars and conflicts for control over said magic. Following how the other gods responded to Abaddon’s beliefs and increasing cult, Balthazar would have betrayed Abaddon and would make sure to keep such a secret at bay.
When Abaddon’s power and secrets were finally absorbed by Kormir, it could follow that, sooner or later, the Goddess of Truth would have revealed Balthazar’s true nature to the other gods, whom could have decided to confront the God of War, a confrontation which could have resulted in the “dimming of Balthazar’s light”. In this view, the Shrine of the Traitors, and what comes with it, might then have been the result of Abaddon’s resentment towards Balthazar’s betrayal.

However, I have one very simple issue with the gods voluntarily causing Balthazar’s fall: since the human gods already went through the act of abating one of their own group at least once (with Abaddon), I doubt they would let Balthazar free to move around on his own if this was the case (let alone try to kill him or leaving him for dead). Unless, of course, either he was given a chance to redeem himself or he fled just in time.


One thing is for sure though: basing on a more recent teaser, we will definitely interact with several Abaddon statues in the new map (by the look of it, it might even be a temple to Abaddon... heck, I can count at least ten statues)–a very unexpected prospective, given that every trace of Abaddon was supposedly erased by the remaining human gods. I’m sure (even though “I hope” might be more reasonable) the presence of said statues will be justified and explained.
The idea of an “Abaddon fractal”, simply based on the statues shown in the trailer, seems now less probable then.

Regarding the Abaddon statues – I only count 6, tops, and that definitely is where the two-statue shot is at (you can tell by some of the broken pillars going down).

I doubt that’s a temple, too small compared to the rest of the Orrian temples and we’ve seen his. But yeah, hopefully they’ll explain why there’s yet another case of Abaddon knowledge when such should have been wiped out…

Where it is, precisely, might say a lot – it might turn out to be something that WAS hidden, one way or another, when Orr was still inhabited.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I would argue the Realm of Torment would be a terrible place for such a monument, because until shortly before Nightfall (exact timeframe unknown), the Forgotten – faithful servants to the five – were in control over the entire realm, all the Margonite cities and structures and used them as prisons.

So unless the shrine was very, very recent, this would basically be putting up a neon sign saying “Balthazar’s on my team, love Abaddon.”

The ‘exact timeframe unknown’ is a bit of a killer: there’s a good argument to be made that the last time the Forgotten had complete control before Nightfall was at least 200 years ago. Who knows when they might have lost control over the Domain of Secrets?

Even then, a shrine that appears to be mocking Balthazar but which is secretly not would be in theme for the region.

Again, I’d note that balance-of-probabilities I think it’s unlikely, but… possible.

The shrine of the traitors is actually in the domain of pain, in the center of the Battlements of Bec’qessor. Not the domain of secrets.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The shrine of the traitors is actually in the domain of pain, in the center of the Battlements of Bec’qessor. Not the domain of secrets.

West of the Battlements of Bec’qessor(which is the city east of the Shrine of the Traitors) actually. Still in the Domain of Pain obviously.

Post Chapter Spoilers

I watched the chapter play out, and Livia's characterization was one of the most insufferable yet. Your character rolls their eyes at it a couple of times at least, which is nice, but for the most part it seems like you’re supposed to accept it as heroic.

Yet again, I have to question the morality of the heroes. A hero brags about committing genocide this episode. Are we supposed to be happy about that? What kind of a threat was Lazarus at this point anyway? His people used to be a threat because there was a lot of them and they conspired to manipulate things in their favor. He’s just one person who never did much to begin with, and he couldn’t until this episode anyway, and only because the hero’s actions. It makes her come across as dangerously obsessed to me far more than it does him needing to be stopped.

Caudecus was a much bigger threat to Kryta than someone who had been sealed away and had no more allies (even the White Mantle hated Lazarus by this point), where was Livia then?

Also, I felt like the reveal for Livia was tailored to counter speculation about Anise, but all it did was make it feel more weird. Why have this running thing about Anise being way older than she appears and her trying to keep some questionable actions on the down low, when it’s actually a completely different, entirely new Shining Blade member who has that backstory. That’s dramatically strange, to say the least.

Finally, the ending was a big letdown compared to last time. Last time we had a huge build-up and a direct lead-in. This time we got a vision that was way too vague for me to understand or care (was quite surprised to see the player character be so confident about what they got from it), and then (what felt like an ad) teasing the real tease. It felt contrived because the chapter itself was essentially Livia's personal vendetta that hijacks the plot, with you only essentially only getting back on track as a reward for helping. The actual plots we were dealing with didn’t really get a climax in the climactic episode.

Jokubas.4265:

Post Chapter Spoilers

I watched the chapter play out, and Livia's characterization was one of the most insufferable yet. Your character rolls their eyes at it a couple of times at least, which is nice, but for the most part it seems like you’re supposed to accept it as heroic.

Yet again, I have to question the morality of the heroes. A hero brags about committing genocide this episode. Are we supposed to be happy about that? What kind of a threat was Lazarus at this point anyway? His people used to be a threat because there was a lot of them and they conspired to manipulate things in their favor. He’s just one person who never did much to begin with, and he couldn’t until this episode anyway, and only because the hero’s actions. It makes her come across as dangerously obsessed to me far more than it does him needing to be stopped.

Caudecus was a much bigger threat to Kryta than someone who had been sealed away and had no more allies (even the White Mantle hated Lazarus by this point), where was Livia then?

Also, I felt like the reveal for Livia was tailored to counter speculation about Anise, but all it did was make it feel more weird. Why have this running thing about Anise being way older than she appears and her trying to keep some questionable actions on the down low, when it’s actually a completely different, entirely new Shining Blade member who has that backstory. That’s dramatically strange, to say the least.

Finally, the ending was a big letdown compared to last time. Last time we had a huge build-up and a direct lead-in. This time we got a vision that was way too vague for me to understand or care (was quite surprised to see the player character be so confident about what they got from it), and then (what felt like an ad) teasing the real tease. It felt contrived because the chapter itself was essentially Livia's personal vendetta that hijacks the plot, with you only essentially only getting back on track as a reward for helping. The actual plots we were dealing with didn’t really get a climax in the climactic episode.

It’s seriously not that great compared to LS1 & LS2 finales, the final fights and what comes after for both really felt way more epic than this, I mean c’mon, Scarlet and Shadow of the Dragon were much more a threat and they were only champions…

Okay, I just went trhough it and of course: Spoilers

• Anise and Balthazar Priest szene was fun. I liked that we could talk with other people there for some additional info. Still miss talking to the people I am traveling with, though.

• Storming the Hideout was intertesting. I like the puzzle, but even though we know who that mysterious Shining Blade woman is at the end, she certainly has nerve and is mostly annoying. I wish our character would put her down a bit more there, instead of jokingly come along.

• It’s not the DR crypts I was hoping for, but okay. Aside from showing possible vulnerability of our character , it forcefully put another deathtrap into our body and bound us to the humans. Was that really neccessary? The whole ordeal felt forced and way too much for this. I don’t want to be a shining blade in that manner. Bam, you are Shining Blade now, just because we want one singular information. What they want with Lazarus. We could ask any other Group to find the Eye, but no. Because we need to go with the lazarus plot. I would have taken that piece and hauled into the next vulacano, instead of being forced into a death oath for nothing.

• Fates Razor… that made me chuckle.

• New Orr area is interesting. Didn’t have much time to explore, but it seems like Balthazar was always a danger, according to the ghosts? Was our view on him over thousands of years so wrong?

• Final Instance: Yay, we can put the Mursaat to rest… yeah… Who was actually waiting for that, after they pulled the rug under our feet with balthazar last time? Double bait and switch with a new character. Why wasn’t Livia, or her alter Ego introduced earlier? We dabbled with Mursaat since episode one. She could have been introduced way earlier. Heck we don’t even know who E is at the moment. I am sorry, but this feels really forced. Like: “Hey and here is Livia and she fullfills her 250 year revenge” Anyone who hasn’t played GW1, is now going: “Okay… who?” We hunt Balthazar. The Commander is an Idiot following this whole thing. This closure doesn’t make the Balthazar switch better. It feels just thrown in, to cross it off the list.

• Oh yeah, Braham had Jormag.. sure he did. He sourounded him. Yeah… of course. Show don’t tell, please. Because right now, we haven’t seen the army or the guild of Braham, that is big enough to soround an entire eldar dragon and be a threat. Have you seen Jormags tooth? Even with your shiny fire arrow, that won’t be so easy.

• A mysterious end video, showing off lot’s of fire and breaking pyramids… great, Balthazar heads towards kralkathorik, who would have thought that?

Anyway, it’s off to the Crytal Desert, with more Info August 1, with a great announcement. The episode was decent, had some funny lines, but I could have easily done without the whole stuff. It gave closure and answers to stuff in a very unsatisfied way for me. However I haven’t seen enough of the new Map, so…

Yeah, it occurred to me that this whole season would have felt more cohesive if it was about Lazarus all along and didn’t try to lead into the future.

Imagine if the real Lazarus really was resurrected at the beginning, and he’s loose and doing something we don’t know, but he plays nice and we’re busy with the Dragons and a Caudecus who doesn’t care about him. Then once we deal with Caudecus, Lazarus makes his move and steals from us. We hunt him down, foil his plan, and then follow him to Orr to finish him for good, end of story.

I think that would have tied the season together better and given us a reason to kill a guy who could only escape because we let him. At this point, bringing back the real Lazarus only to immediately kill him just comes out of nowhere and doesn’t really accomplish anything except resolve an old plot I really don’t care about.

One thing I want to say about Guild Wars 1 is that, I played all of the campaigns, and that’s pretty much it. I’ve seen a lot of people talk about them starting to involve GW1 more, but it almost all still seems to come from the War in Kryta and such, which I never saw because it was way too hard (and I vaguely recall Arena.net admitting that after getting feedback from a survey back in the day). None of this GW1 lore means anything to me because it keeps being brought from the hardcore parts of the game, instead of the main story, so even people who played GW1 aren’t guaranteed to have connection to these plots.

Jaken.6801:

Okay, I just went trhough it and of course: Spoilers

• New Orr area is interesting. Didn’t have much time to explore, but it seems like Balthazar was always a danger, according to the ghosts? Was our view on him over thousands of years so wrong?

So Balthazar threw away Honor before the Exodus of the Gods then(explains why the Canthan myths mention a general lack of sportsmanship from Balthazar with Kaolai being the exception to this). The Zaishen Order was deceived the whole time.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Jaken.6801:

Okay, I just went trhough it and of course: Spoilers

• New Orr area is interesting. Didn’t have much time to explore, but it seems like Balthazar was always a danger, according to the ghosts? Was our view on him over thousands of years so wrong?

So Balthazar threw away Honor before the Exodus of the Gods then(explains why the Canthan myths mention a general lack of sportsmanship from Balthazar with Kaolai being the exception to this). The Zaishen Order was deceived the whole time.

We always knew he was a danger BECAUSE of things like Cantha and their stories. It really doesn’t change a whole lot. You can kind of compare it to Hera from Greek mythology. She was honored and worshipped as her station warranted, and was the personification of her sphere of influence. But everyone, especially the worshippers, knew she was a raging vengeful heartless kitten. Balthazar was probably the same way. Honorable and strong, but also temperamental and volatile. I don’t think anything really changed in that end.

Ok a bit of the spoiler for the end, so don’t look at it until you haven’t finished the story missions (or you don’t care about spoilers).

That remindes of the time when people thought Glint was just a female of the Elder Dragon species, and females are just that much smaller than males. That was long before the games release, when we only knew Primordus name. Anyway, even back then I said Glint was a dragon champion like the Great Destroyer and I had to wait until the second book was released to get my confirmation. But that only took 3 years to confirm, this spoiler theory took 5! :P

If i remember the dialogue, being her mother was used as an analogy. I believe she actually said during the boss fight when asked that she had no descendants. I dont think she is actually her mother (id have to reread the dialogue to confirm)

Why would she tell Lazarus the truth? If they had lost to him, that only makes him go after her child. As I said, it’s ambiguous, but the way she reacts hints at it pretty strongly.

I have my many misgivings about the season in general,
but I rather like this release in particular. The only flaws I really see is two very important plots not being tied up:

• Braham, with him getting so close to Jormag off screen (which imo is bad), but at least they confirmed Jormag went to sleep, and god did I love hearing how Braham’s now being pressured because of his kitten hastiness.
• And Rytlock being MIA again… I swear if he pops out of the ground in a state of the art technology and when asked what that technology is he just responds with “Later, cub.” … yeah…

Jokubas.4265:

I watched the chapter play out, and Livia's characterization was one of the most insufferable yet. Your character rolls their eyes at it a couple of times at least, which is nice, but for the most part it seems like you’re supposed to accept it as heroic.

I’m just gonna toss the whole response here in a spoiler tag…

Jokubas.4265:

What kind of a threat was Lazarus at this point anyway? His people used to be a threat because there was a lot of them and they conspired to manipulate things in their favor. He’s just one person who never did much to begin with, and he couldn’t until this episode anyway, and only because the hero’s actions.

Actually this is untrue.

Jokubas.4265:

Caudecus was a much bigger threat to Kryta than someone who had been sealed away and had no more allies (even the White Mantle hated Lazarus by this point), where was Livia then?

The White Mantle did not hate Lazarus. It was rather that there was a schism between the devout and those who were merely power hungry.

Jokubas.4265:

Also, I felt like the reveal for Livia was tailored to counter speculation about Anise, but all it did was make it feel more weird. Why have this running thing about Anise being way older than she appears and her trying to keep some questionable actions on the down low, when it’s actually a completely different, entirely new Shining Blade member who has that backstory. That’s dramatically strange, to say the least.

Never heard of red herrings?

Jokubas.4265:

Finally, the ending was a big letdown compared to last time. Last time we had a huge build-up and a direct lead-in. This time we got a vision that was way too vague for me to understand or care (was quite surprised to see the player character be so confident about what they got from it), and then (what felt like an ad) teasing the real tease. It felt contrived because the chapter itself was essentially Livia's personal vendetta that hijacks the plot, with you only essentially only getting back on track as a reward for helping. The actual plots we were dealing with didn’t really get a climax in the climactic episode.

I actually like this much more. The cinematic was a bit fast pace, but it was clear what it was showing: dragons being hunted down by an army blessed by fire, pyramids and Elonian buildings being toppled and destroyed in a raging inferno, and <s>Ares</s> Balthazar looking over his shoulder at us.

At the same time, the cinematic was simple enough as to not give us false promises like the teaser for HoT did with its show of a sylvari civil war, of humans assaulting Canach in DR, of Faolain fighting against the Pact as herself. So I rather liked it. It was epic still, but restrained enough that it gave us no wrong impression. It’s message was straightforward: War in Elona.

The final fight felt a bit easy, but I am a better player than most, having enjoyed the pre-nerf Caudecus fight for example. So I won’t say much there, I did enjoy it though.

This release also served to fully cement the plot that this season 3 opened with: Lazarus. From the raids to now, half of the plot’s focus (more than half, really), has been Lazarus. And this feels like a proper send off for the character. Revived, battled an ancient enemy, and slain by a sword of Seer origins.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Jaken.6801:

Okay, I just went trhough it and of course: Spoilers

• New Orr area is interesting. Didn’t have much time to explore, but it seems like Balthazar was always a danger, according to the ghosts? Was our view on him over thousands of years so wrong?

So Balthazar threw away Honor before the Exodus of the Gods then(explains why the Canthan myths mention a general lack of sportsmanship from Balthazar with Kaolai being the exception to this). The Zaishen Order was deceived the whole time.

The ghost at Balthazar’s shrine doesn’t talk about him pre-Exodus, but post. And even then, that’s not talking about honor but “feed his enemies to the lava”. And there has been a long standing view of Balthazar being a “burn his enemies in rightous flames” kind of guy from the beginning. That ghost changes nothing – nor did the Priest in DR.

The one at Lyssa’s mentions that his followers caused wars – nothing about honor or lack thereof there. And that’s just saying his followers tend to be wreckless and brawling. Which isn’t too surprising, as those who would prefer to fight and kill folks would naturally go to a god of war even if the god’s teachings of war differ from their own.

On the whole, I wasn’t terribly impressed by this one (although I haven’t done much in the open world yet). It gets kudos for tying off loose ends, but the implementation of those story elements is some of the worst this season.

• Really unimpressed with the portrayal of Balthazar’s worshipers in the first instance. Last patch left me feeling like Balthazar’s role could very well be nuanced and interesting, but the crass flanderization at play here drained a lot of my confidence; doubly so, as it seemed to serve no greater purpose than to rub our faces in the fact that Balthazar’s a villain now. ’Let’s fight on the cobblestones, they hurt more’? Chicken noises from a priest? He’s the god of war, not anarchy and masochism.

• I enjoyed the White Mantle hideout, for what it’s worth, but it felt like building the world around gameplay and not the other way around (more on that later). Tacking it on to Brisban Wildlands felt more like a design equivalent of a shrug, and the entire thing was much larger than its story role called for. Good fights, though, and well designed achievements.

• The Shining Blade HQ… I’m glad we’ve confirmed that the place exists, but everything about it- entering through a sepulchre, the out-of-place house in the sewers, the trials- gave a heavy “super-secret-clubhouse” feeling. By the end I was half tempted to look for a ‘No Girls Allowed’ sign. (This also had the most technical problems for me- the lighting effects on my settings made it very hard to see the house, which combined poorly with the abundance of interactable objects that weren’t labeled, and the meander around movement script the Exemplars were following ended with all five piled on the exact same spot, which made it difficult to access the dialogue. And is it just me, or did the trial section feel like a slapped together montage of moments you were originally supposed to play through? Not that I minded, but it added to the feeling that this instance could’ve used another polish pass.)

• And then there’s the Shining Blade itself. Season 3 has had a trend of magical artifacts popping up everywhere without warning. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s not to my tastes, and it’s not something the franchise has done in the past. I found it a bit jarring that there was suddenly a literal blade, and the idea of Seers and mursaat killing each other with swords doesn’t sit quite right either. Minor nitpick; I only bring it up to note that there’s been a trend.

• And then the books. I’m always a fan of these reading collections, but this time the abundance of continuity errors, the repeats of previous text, and the general difficulty I had accessing them brought me down drastically.

• On to the new map. Same cookie-cutter front-and-back loaded story with a guided tour in the middle that makes the new map feel poorly integrated with the reason we’re actually there. (More on that in a minute too.) For all that, I do like what I’ve seen of the new map quite a bit, and I look forward to spending more time in it. I noticed that we’re being forced to complete the hearts again, but they felt quicker to get through than some previous maps. I’d say they’ve struck a good balance. Also, we finally find out what happened to Dagonet!
• The final instance was… odd. This one felt the gameyist of the bunch. The god of fire hindered our progress with predictable, perfectly square patches of flame that toggle in a pattern that gives us safe passage? (Side note: if I hear ‘god magic’ again, I might just gag.) Not that the story side fit together either. We were in the sealed reliquary of the god of secrets, but aside from the decor nothing would’ve changed if they’d set it back in Draconis Mons. Why was the innermost chamber set up perfectly for bringing Lazarus back? Why did Balthazar carry an aspect of Lazarus all that way, just to leave it conveniently behind? Maybe the Eye catching up to him had something to do with it, but if so, it wasn’t communicated to us at all.

• The Livia reveal was… anticlimactic. They milked it for too long, laid down the hints too heavily. Anyone who knew who Livia was already had ample time to figure it out, only for the sham to keep dragging out to the point I was relieved to have it over. Anyone who didn’t recognize her has one more complaint to add to the cries that things are becoming needlessly convoluted. And I did not get the chance to ask her nearly enough there at the end. It was nice to see her again, but they fumbled hard on the delivery.

• Killing Lazarus off felt like a good, satisfying conclusion to this season’s B-plot. It did not feel like finale fair. With the weirdness around Livia factored in, I wonder if they hadn’t originally planned for all of this to be more important. It seems to me like the Balthazar plot took over before they were ready, and they were left with the choice between leaving the existing threads hanging or hastily chopping them off to get them out of the way. If that was the case, I do appreciate that they chose to offer us closure this time. It wasn’t what they’d built it up to be, but leaving everything in narrative limbo is no more appealing.

• We’re heading into the next expansion with exactly none of our guild issues resolved. For as big a deal as Dragon’s Watch has been, that has me curious what they intend to do. Braham, Rytlock, and Rox, at the very least, aren’t in a place to be at our side, and Marjory and Kasmeer’s drama is still a powder keg awaiting a spark. I don’t mind them playing the long game on this, but it does leave an open question of what role they’ll play this time ’round.

In summary, I applaud the vision but bemoan the execution. This isn’t how I was hoping to leave off before the expansion, and I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t disappointed, but on the whole I did enjoy enough of it that I don’t begrudge the time spent.

After a good nights sleep, my overall negative reaction unfortunatly didn’t change much.
I get the story they wanted to tell, but like Aaron said, the execution resulted in me beeing disapointed.

Let me explain. I get that they wanted to cross Lazarus, the Anise mystery and Livia off the list, while prepping us for the next expansion.
The overall pieces in how they did that, were okay.
Like Koenig said, they nailed Livias character and the final fight was actually played out very well.

However most of it is just good in concept. The whole thing felt unneccessary and convoluted, to bring an ending to characters that were either only now introduced to the GW2 game, or have been made uninteresting, because of the way they handled the story.

At this point I was running after a god, who threatens to destroy the world, thanks to his foolish actions. Why would I take part in a personal vendetta against someone, who is sealed away. Someone who does not pose a threat right now and could be contained.
This whole episode felt not like an epilog to Livia and Lazarus. It didn’t feel like an ending for Lazarus himself. It felt like they litteraly just crossed them of their to-do-list.

However it could have been:

• If they didn’t went with the Balthazar reveal, Lazarus and his Aspekts could still have been interesing as driving force.
• If we were more involved in the whole “Kill lazarus ordeal” to beginn with, instead of it happening offscreen with an unknown character doing all the work (Livia) and us just tagging along for some highlights, then I might have actually cared.
• If they introduced the alter Ego of Livia way earlier. Having her actually be noticeable so her reveal meant something, even for non GW1 player.

However they didn’t do any of these things. This episode felt very forced that way and only to bring this long standing grudge to an end. Unfortunatly it felt more like: “Hello I am Livia, this is my nemesis, you know him already, and you help me kill him, bye.” I felt her litterally waving hello and goodbye in a comedic fashion.
Even the mention of the scepter and her traveling, might only be a little foreshadowing for later, when we meet Palava Joko and have to find her again in Elona to give him the scepter for some reason.

It’s nice that they wanted to bring more light into the secret organization that is the shining blade, but I really hate they way they handled it. I hate the idea of another death oath. I hate the idea of beeing part of the Blade for no reason, than just the commanders (not my characters) stupid curiousity. I hate that there was no build up, etc.

The whole Shining Blade ordeal could have been left on the cutting board, in my opinion. Not only for my human character, but because it also is very bad for other races.
I didn’t need to be indoctrinated, I didn’t need to know what they do with Lazarus right now. I didn’t even needed the help of the shining blade, as there are several other secret organizations that could have done the same and I might have allready been part of them, without selling my soul.

It all felt really clunky and left a sour taste in my mouth. Everything good they did this episode, is just butchered up by this major story parts.

No witty comment of my character, could make this thing better, if he just runs along like a sheep. It was noticeable before, but right now he is on the same negative development level as Braham and Majory, who also fell into the stupid pool.

While it was nice to see these many things comming back, I can’t say I like the way they did it.
I don’t want to sound overly negative, but that’s how I feel about the story. Clunky and forced. It didn’t feel natural and more like a secret additional Boss fight for an RPG, to take care of some loose ends, instead of a conclusion to the actual story direction.

Given that I don’ really care about how Balthazar is now depicted as a straight evil warmonger, who lost his honor and went crazy appearently, I am not even hyped up for the expansion. For me they even felt in that way. First we had Braham, now we have Balthazar (ironicly, fire and ice… though Braham uses fire now), to clean up behind. It’s the same story, told twice in one season. Even if it is meant as an analogy for later, it is too much at once.

Edit: They could have cut the whole SB ordeal, by just having us meet Livia in Orr again, as the expert and then stumble into her Lazarus ressurection plan there. That would have made much more sense to me.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

At the same time, the cinematic was simple enough as to not give us false promises like the teaser for HoT did with its show of a sylvari civil war, of humans assaulting Canach in DR, of Faolain fighting against the Pact as herself. So I rather liked it. It was epic still, but restrained enough that it gave us no wrong impression. It’s message was straightforward: War in Elona.

Do not even think about it, that can bring bad luck….. An epic cinematic about an alleged “civil war” with silvarys, reduced to an event in Verdant Brink with interregatories. The chaks that did not even appear in the trailer had a bigger presence in HoT’s history, than to such a “civil war of the sylvars pact”. If the expansion follows the same path, the scene of pyramids and military hordes in the service of balthazar, it will be only 1 event on 1 map lol lol.

…. I do not know the lore of Guild Wars 1, what is the gap between the events of Guild Wars 1 and 2? Are they 100, 200 years old? Does this mean that most of the GW1 characters are unknown to the “current generation” and remembered to us as old stories or legends? Those who are alive as Livia, are those who had “something special” to have longevity?