Guild Wars 2

So I keep hearing from people that te scale of the battle against Mordremoth seems far less epic than that of Zaitan. Even wooden potatoes failed to analyze how large a scale mordremoths was In one of his videos simply because he has not been to dragon stand before completing the story. What people fail to realize is that mordremoths encounter is actually in a far bigger scale than zaitans ever was. The mouth of mordremoth IS actually the embodiment of the dragon. That being said, when you enter his lair in the personal story, that moment is taking place at the same time that the pact is storming dragon stand and confronting the mouth of Mordremoth ( his body). It is even pointed out by one of the characters in the mission that it is our only chance at striking his mind while his attention is focused on the army outside. So all in all , our little group of hero’s did not single handedly slay an elder dragon. It took the entire pact obliterating the body Mordremoth created for himself to sustain all his magic so that the commander ( the player) and his elite squad could strike him at his core at the same time. It almost had a lord of the rings feeling to it in a sense that frodo is you the player sneaking into the heart of the volcano as the army outside distracts the eye of sauron. Honestly to me this was brilliant and I loved that the dragon was so powerful we had to destroy his mind, body and his seed (trahern) all at the same time to completely end him or he would just return.

Here’s the issue that ArenaNet made.

The story instances in Verdant Brink take place before the events in the area. You meet Laranthir in the story before you help him and the Pale Reavers in VB. The Jungle Provides takes place before the Itzel event chain in VB. Prisoners of the Dragon takes place before the Pact Copse chain in NW Verdant Brink.

This is also true for Act 2 (aka Auric Basin). You do Prized Possessions before you meet any Exalted – it’s when you meet the Exalted. And City of Hope likely takes place before the defense meta.

This carries on for Act 3. You go to Rata Novus before the event chain for Rata Novus takes place – after all, you’re discovering the place and powering it up for the first time ever.

However, in Act 4, the meta event happens alongside Hearts and Mind, not after. ArenaNet changes their entire system with this rushed act, and the story pushes you into the instance the moment you enter it more or less, taking you through it and out of the map into the isolated open world instance called Dragon’s Stand (Heart of Thorns).

This curve ball in the story’s direction, as well as the story pushing you to entirely miss the meta before facing Mordremoth’s mind, leads players to think “that is the Elder Dragon fight” when “the Elder Dragon fight” is – unlike with Zhaitan – in two pieces, much like the final Scarlet fight (you had the Prime Hologram that led into Scarlet’s End instance).

Arctarius.2649:

So I keep hearing from people that te scale of the battle against Mordremoth seems far less epic than that of Zaitan. Even wooden potatoes failed to analyze how large a scale mordremoths was In one of his videos simply because he has not been to dragon stand before completing the story. What people fail to realize is that mordremoths encounter is actually in a far bigger scale than zaitans ever was. The mouth of mordremoth IS actually the embodiment of the dragon. That being said, when you enter his lair in the personal story, that moment is taking place at the same time that the pact is storming dragon stand and confronting the mouth of Mordremoth ( his body). It is even pointed out by one of the characters in the mission that it is our only chance at striking his mind while his attention is focused on the army outside. So all in all , our little group of hero’s did not single handedly slay an elder dragon. It took the entire pact obliterating the body Mordremoth created for himself to sustain all his magic so that the commander ( the player) and his elite squad could strike him at his core at the same time. It almost had a lord of the rings feeling to it in a sense that frodo is you the player sneaking into the heart of the volcano as the army outside distracts the eye of sauron. Honestly to me this was brilliant and I loved that the dragon was so powerful we had to destroy his mind, body and his seed (trahern) all at the same time to completely end him or he would just return.

I completely agree.

I think as a whole story, the war against Risen is much better than the war against Mordrem, this is the flaw of introducing a brand new dragon without strong focus and previous build up. The only problem is Zhaitan’s fight was disappointing, it didn’t make much direct involvement before the fight either. Mordremoth has the advantage of being a giant plant, which means it could be anywhere to fight you. However, the last fight in the story wasn’t much better than Zhaitan’s.

If you think scale is an issue, you clearly haven’t played the Dragon’s Stand event. That’s where all the Pact members you’ve been helping throughout the last 3 maps come together and fight Mordremoth’s physical body, and it’s easily the most epic thing Anet has ever made.

Stormbolt.7293:

If you think scale is an issue, you clearly haven’t played the Dragon’s Stand event. That’s where all the Pact members you’ve been helping throughout the last 3 maps come together and fight Mordremoth’s physical body, and it’s easily the most epic thing Anet has ever made.

The problem is that people haven’t. In some people minds there is a clear separation between the Personal Story and the PvE map stories. In vanilla ANet included some of the push towards Arah events in the PS so those who didn’t care or pay attention to the PvE maps still got the feeling of pushing into Orr. Mind you this is probably redundant story telling, imagine if they’d taken the time and effort made to make those PS chapters and rather decided to implement them in-game as large-scale events chains (I personally prefer the later but then people would again not see these as being part of the story).

Stormbolt.7293:

If you think scale is an issue, you clearly haven’t played the Dragon’s Stand event. That’s where all the Pact members you’ve been helping throughout the last 3 maps come together and fight Mordremoth’s physical body, and it’s easily the most epic thing Anet has ever made.

That was a champion, not Mordremoth.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Stormbolt.7293:

If you think scale is an issue, you clearly haven’t played the Dragon’s Stand event. That’s where all the Pact members you’ve been helping throughout the last 3 maps come together and fight Mordremoth’s physical body, and it’s easily the most epic thing Anet has ever made.

That was a champion, not Mordremoth.

No i think this is not correct. It is implied that it is a physical part of mordremoth.

Muchacho.2390:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Stormbolt.7293:

If you think scale is an issue, you clearly haven’t played the Dragon’s Stand event. That’s where all the Pact members you’ve been helping throughout the last 3 maps come together and fight Mordremoth’s physical body, and it’s easily the most epic thing Anet has ever made.

That was a champion, not Mordremoth.

No i think this is not correct. It is implied that it is a physical part of mordremoth.

That’s no much different than a champion.

Why do people keep trying to deny that the mouth of mordremoth IS mordremoth, its pretty obvious that it is mordremoths physical manifestation, i would say the only reason its specified as the MOUTH of mordremoth is because technically all those vines in the jungle are also mordremoth because he is massive and this is essentially his actual head, and mouth of mordremoth sounds better than head of mordremoth

Slowpokeking.8720:

Stormbolt.7293:

If you think scale is an issue, you clearly haven’t played the Dragon’s Stand event. That’s where all the Pact members you’ve been helping throughout the last 3 maps come together and fight Mordremoth’s physical body, and it’s easily the most epic thing Anet has ever made.

That was a champion, not Mordremoth.

No, that was Mordremoth himself, or at least his head. NPCs and event information refers to it as Mordremoth and the Mouth of Mordremoth interchangeably, it’s far bigger and stronger than any regular champion, and it’s even right in the middle of an area called the “Dragon’s Domain” on a map called “Dragon’s Stand.” The Mouths of Zhaitan are monsters that eat magical artifacts for him. The Mouth of Mordremoth is literally Mordremoth’s mouth.

Kayberz.5346:

Why do people keep trying to deny that the mouth of mordremoth IS mordremoth, its pretty obvious that it is mordremoths physical manifestation, i would say the only reason its specified as the MOUTH of mordremoth is because technically all those vines in the jungle are also mordremoth because he is massive and this is essentially his actual head, and mouth of mordremoth sounds better than head of mordremoth

Because we KILLED it, it didn’t get cut off from the jungle, it simply got beaten to death and didn’t come back and Mordremoth was still alive when we entered its mind.

Stormbolt.7293:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Stormbolt.7293:

If you think scale is an issue, you clearly haven’t played the Dragon’s Stand event. That’s where all the Pact members you’ve been helping throughout the last 3 maps come together and fight Mordremoth’s physical body, and it’s easily the most epic thing Anet has ever made.

That was a champion, not Mordremoth.

No, that was Mordremoth himself, or at least his head. NPCs and event information refers to it as Mordremoth and the Mouth of Mordremoth interchangeably, it’s far bigger and stronger than any regular champion, and it’s even right in the middle of an area called the “Dragon’s Domain” on a map called “Dragon’s Stand.” The Mouths of Zhaitan are monsters that eat magical artifacts for him. The Mouth of Mordremoth is literally Mordremoth’s mouth.

It was killed by us, it was beaten to death but Mordremoth was still alive until we got into its mind.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Kayberz.5346:

Why do people keep trying to deny that the mouth of mordremoth IS mordremoth, its pretty obvious that it is mordremoths physical manifestation, i would say the only reason its specified as the MOUTH of mordremoth is because technically all those vines in the jungle are also mordremoth because he is massive and this is essentially his actual head, and mouth of mordremoth sounds better than head of mordremoth

Because we KILLED it, it didn’t get cut off from the jungle, it simply got beaten to death and didn’t come back and Mordremoth was still alive when we entered its mind.

Stormbolt.7293:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Stormbolt.7293:

If you think scale is an issue, you clearly haven’t played the Dragon’s Stand event. That’s where all the Pact members you’ve been helping throughout the last 3 maps come together and fight Mordremoth’s physical body, and it’s easily the most epic thing Anet has ever made.

That was a champion, not Mordremoth.

No, that was Mordremoth himself, or at least his head. NPCs and event information refers to it as Mordremoth and the Mouth of Mordremoth interchangeably, it’s far bigger and stronger than any regular champion, and it’s even right in the middle of an area called the “Dragon’s Domain” on a map called “Dragon’s Stand.” The Mouths of Zhaitan are monsters that eat magical artifacts for him. The Mouth of Mordremoth is literally Mordremoth’s mouth.

It was killed by us, it was beaten to death but Mordremoth was still alive until we got into its mind.

This might sound confusing but the meta event and the final mission of the PS take place at the same time. While the Pact attacks the physical Mordremoth, the PC attacks him in his own mind. The physical attack works because Mordy’s mind is assaulted and the attack on his mind works because the Pact is knocking his teeth out. One would not have worked without the other. And before you give me the “but I did both”, yes you can, but storywise you only did the mind attack, the meta event assumes you are just a random pact soldier.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

This might sound confusing but the meta event and the final mission of the PS take place at the same time. While the Pact attacks the physical Mordremoth, the PC attacks him in his own mind. The physical attack works because Mordy’s mind is assaulted and the attack on his mind works because the Pact is knocking his teeth out. One would not have worked without the other. And before you give me the “but I did both”, yes you can, but storywise you only did the mind attack, the meta event assumes you are just a random pact soldier.

I don’t think so, is there any proof?

It would have been nice if Anet would have informed the player during the PS that while an assault would be taking place and that your actions would occur during this assault.

Slowpokeking.8720:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

This might sound confusing but the meta event and the final mission of the PS take place at the same time. While the Pact attacks the physical Mordremoth, the PC attacks him in his own mind. The physical attack works because Mordy’s mind is assaulted and the attack on his mind works because the Pact is knocking his teeth out. One would not have worked without the other. And before you give me the “but I did both”, yes you can, but storywise you only did the mind attack, the meta event assumes you are just a random pact soldier.

I don’t think so, is there any proof?

There is a line before you enter the dragon’s mind. I don’t recall it’s exact wording, but the group said something along the lines of “this is our chance, mordremoth is disctraced by the Pact attack”.

Slowpokeking.8720:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

This might sound confusing but the meta event and the final mission of the PS take place at the same time. While the Pact attacks the physical Mordremoth, the PC attacks him in his own mind. The physical attack works because Mordy’s mind is assaulted and the attack on his mind works because the Pact is knocking his teeth out. One would not have worked without the other. And before you give me the “but I did both”, yes you can, but storywise you only did the mind attack, the meta event assumes you are just a random pact soldier.

I don’t think so, is there any proof?

Pretty sure in that last instance, people were talking about how distracted Mord was, allowing us to go where we did.
Looking back it now, it would make sense that Mord was distracted by the Pact attack on his mouth. I suppose they were going for a Lord of the Rings type climax where the big bad is distracted with an army and lets the little group slip by.

Slowpokeking.8720:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

This might sound confusing but the meta event and the final mission of the PS take place at the same time. While the Pact attacks the physical Mordremoth, the PC attacks him in his own mind. The physical attack works because Mordy’s mind is assaulted and the attack on his mind works because the Pact is knocking his teeth out. One would not have worked without the other. And before you give me the “but I did both”, yes you can, but storywise you only did the mind attack, the meta event assumes you are just a random pact soldier.

I don’t think so, is there any proof?

" Armies cannot stop me " Mordremoth 2015 – his Opinion of the Pact Assault on him in Dragon Stand. Canach also said that Mordremoth is distracted by the Battle outside. This should be Prove enough that the Meta and Story Mission took Place at the Same time.

And this wasn’t just a Champion we fought in the last Map. We fought Mordremoth itself in Dragon Stand. Position, Size, the Fact that this Fight distracted Mordy and also the Fact that “Mouth” didn’t spoke like any Champion would. Every Minion ( including Champs ) has a similar way of talking. This Thing doesn’t match with the Minion speak Patterns . " You dare defy my eternal Will? " No Minion would say something like this.

hardy.7469:

Pretty sure in that last instance, people were talking about how distracted Mord was, allowing us to go where we did.
Looking back it now, it would make sense that Mord was distracted by the Pact attack on his mouth. I suppose they were going for a Lord of the Rings type climax where the big bad is distracted with an army and lets the little group slip by.

Walhalla.5473:

" Armies cannot stop me " Mordremoth 2015 – his Opinion of the Pact Assault on him in Dragon Stand. Canach also said that Mordremoth is distracted by the Battle outside. This should be Prove enough that the Meta and Story Mission took Place at the Same time.

And this wasn’t just a Champion we fought in the last Map. We fought Mordremoth itself in Dragon Stand. Position, Size, the Fact that this Fight distracted Mordy and also the Fact that “Mouth” didn’t spoke like any Champion would. Every Minion ( including Champs ) has a similar way of talking. This Thing doesn’t match with the Minion speak Patterns . " You dare defy my eternal Will? " No Minion would say something like this.

This means little, Elder Dragons need to command their minions and champions against us, specifically Mordremoth since it’s a Hive Mind structure and its presence is everywhere.

Also, Mordremoth did show it could speak through its minions.

The floating shadow face that mordremoth appears as looks exactly like the mouth of mordremoth, why are you trying so hard to deny that its mordremoth?

Kayberz.5346:

The floating shadow face that mordremoth appears as looks exactly like the mouth of mordremoth, why are you trying so hard to deny that its mordremoth?

It is rather funny. It’s like they are demanding the mouth of Modremoth say “I am actually Modremoth! DIE!”

Also maybe the idea of a creature that is made of plant life that encompass the entire map and all the new zones is maybe a bit too much for them to comprehend?

Slowpokeking.8720:

Also, Mordremoth did show it could speak through its minions.

Please do clarify on this because not one did I ever see Mordremoth – or any Elder Dragon – speaking through his minions.

The only times we hear something speak with Mordremoth’s voice is the Mouth of Mordremoth, which uses the very same line as in the final instance (“Armies cannot stop me.”) as far as I know – and inside Mordremoth’s mind.

hardy.7469:

Kayberz.5346:

The floating shadow face that mordremoth appears as looks exactly like the mouth of mordremoth, why are you trying so hard to deny that its mordremoth?

It is rather funny. It’s like they are demanding the mouth of Modremoth say “I am actually Modremoth! DIE!”

Also maybe the idea of a creature that is made of plant life that encompass the entire map and all the new zones is maybe a bit too much for them to comprehend?

November 10th update notes:

• Added a new voice over line for the Mouth of Mordremoth during Dragon’s Stand meta event.

Mouth of Mordremoth’s new line is:
“Foolish mortals, it will be I, Mordremoth, the Elder Jungle Dragon of Plant and Mind who consumes this ley line energy and ravashes the world!”

Then Slowpokeking and others then say “well Mordremoth’s just talking through the Mouth of Mordremoth, it’s in his dragon champion’s name!”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Also, Mordremoth did show it could speak through its minions.

Please do clarify on this because not one did I ever see Mordremoth – or any Elder Dragon – speaking through his minions.

The only times we hear something speak with Mordremoth’s voice is the Mouth of Mordremoth, which uses the very same line as in the final instance (“Armies cannot stop me.”) as far as I know – and inside Mordremoth’s mind.

To be fair in the fight with Faolain, said Sylvari turned Mordrem rants to Caithe about how she sould join Mordremoth and the last line changes into Mordy’s voice and I think there was a first person pronoun in it. It’s still pretty clear that the Mouth is Mordremoth’s physical body (or part of it).

I recall that line, but the speaker is called “Voice of Mordremoth” and I didn’t see the line coming from any nearby NPC. The voice itself also changed. It was just another dragon-speech that only sylvari should hear.

Though for some reason, my charr heard it. I took it as a bug.

I thought it was Faolain since my Norn heard it but it could be a bug, true.

The line definitely had Voice of Mordremoth listed in the chat window as the speaker. I saw it and was just “wait what?” then I chalked it first down as “well, we’re pretty much in his heart so it wouldn’t be surprising everyone could understand an Elder Dragon of mind this close to him” then when it was just dragon roaring in the next instance I chalked it down as “guess it was a bug.”

Walhalla.5473:

And this wasn’t just a Champion we fought in the last Map. We fought Mordremoth itself in Dragon Stand.

Mordy is a bit of a interesting entity. He’s basically the monster version of Pando https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_ (or maybe that fungus http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141114-the-biggest-organism-in-the-world but I think Tree when I think Mordy).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Also, Mordremoth did show it could speak through its minions.

Please do clarify on this because not one did I ever see Mordremoth – or any Elder Dragon – speaking through his minions.

The only times we hear something speak with Mordremoth’s voice is the Mouth of Mordremoth, which uses the very same line as in the final instance (“Armies cannot stop me.”) as far as I know – and inside Mordremoth’s mind.

He did speak through Trahearne, although at that point I think Trahearne was Mordy.

At that point Mordremoth’s ’mind’s shadow’ (as I call it – the black face we see in the mind) not only pops up behind him but resides solely within Trahearne. At that point he wouldn’t be “speaking through Trahearne” but instead being a “split personality of Trahearne that surfaced”.

As I see it, Mordremoth basically possessed Trahearne’s body. And I wouldn’t consider that “speaking through a minion”.