[Spoiler] Physical Mordremoth

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Posted by: Gnat.9405

Gnat.9405

As far as I could make out, what we fought in the final instance was a physical manifestation of his mind. Is there any instance where we actually see the Elder Jungle Dragon, or are we to take the story at face and assume that he is literally a jungle?

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

I don’t think he really is the jungle, just his presence is everywhere.

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Posted by: Gnat.9405

Gnat.9405

I kind of figured they meant it metaphorically, but I was disappointed when we never saw a shot of him being a real dragon, like we did with the Zhaitan aerials and stuff.

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

I think he might be a giant root like creature underground, siphoning energy from the ley lines.

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Posted by: Erukk.1408

Erukk.1408

Try and do the Dragon Stand meta.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

Try and do the Dragon Stand meta.

Yeah Mordy might once have been a dragon or more dragon-ish but clearly he sprouted roots and started growing wildly. The closest thing to a physical manifestation is probably the Mouth of Mordremoth.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

From what I’ve gathered regarding the Dragon’s Stand meta dialogue and from the final instance dialogue is that the Mouth of Mordremoth is actually Mordremoth’s physical body – it’s the mouth we saw at the end of S1/beginning of HoT. The reason why we can’t kill Mordy by killing the Mouth of Mordremoth is that his mind is effectively in all of his corruption so he can just regrow his body (explaining why the meta is a repeating event).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Gnat.9405

Gnat.9405

Very cool, thanks for the info guys. Good luck out there.

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Posted by: Urosh Uchiha.9732

Urosh Uchiha.9732

clearly he sprouted roots and started growing wildly

The thought of an actual dragon, a giant beat, actually sprouting and growing all over the place. Spreading himself around EVERYTHING gives me the creeps. For some reason reminds me of something from John Carpenter’s The Thing….

I thought that by destroying his mind in the story we actually killed him for good, right?

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Posted by: Gnat.9405

Gnat.9405

Yeah destroying his mind seemed like it would have different consequences than destroying Zhaitan physically. Orr is explained through lingering corruption if I recall correctly, and most world events tend to clean up after the story line pretty well, however in how case of Mordremoth and Dragon’s Stand meta event, it seems like the story is taking place strictly after or even simultaneous to the event in which we kill Mordremoth’s body. I can’t think of a way to justify that event repeating canonically with Mordremoth’s influence not being a factor on the jungle’s behavior.

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

Which begs one question though.
Why are they called Dragons if they dont have to look like dragons.

I know it could just be a description of old (like in doctor who, the word doctor is refered as healer and wise man but also warrior and death), but I always though there was some kind of physical representation embeded in the ED energy.

Everyone who takes the power, transforms or manifests it in a dragons shape.

I mean, every other ED was dragonlike.

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Posted by: Gnat.9405

Gnat.9405

Well Mordremoth, or the Mouth of Mordremoth (which we presume to actually be the dragon), does look like a dragon.

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

Well Mordremoth, or the Mouth of Mordremoth (which we presume to actually be the dragon), does look like a dragon.

Ah, saw a video now.
Yeah, however other description fit as well. Most I heard was snake or big vine.
It looks like a dragon. Like a Hydra I guess.

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Posted by: Gnat.9405

Gnat.9405

Yeah, and it’s massive!

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Posted by: Fenom.9457

Fenom.9457

Hail Hyrda.

/morecharrs

Want to read about a nice mini expansion to make Mordremoth and Zhaitan better?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mini-Expansion-Vengeance/first#post6473305

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Posted by: BuddhaKeks.4857

BuddhaKeks.4857

Hail Hyrda.

“All right, all right. Put your arms down, Kaminski. You look like a West Texas cheerleader at a pep rally.”

You don’t win friends with salad! Sorry I just got caught up in the rhythm.

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Posted by: Stormbolt.7293

Stormbolt.7293

From what I’ve gathered regarding the Dragon’s Stand meta dialogue and from the final instance dialogue is that the Mouth of Mordremoth is actually Mordremoth’s physical body – it’s the mouth we saw at the end of S1/beginning of HoT. The reason why we can’t kill Mordy by killing the Mouth of Mordremoth is that his mind is effectively in all of his corruption so he can just regrow his body (explaining why the meta is a repeating event).

This is correct. “Mouth of Mordremoth” and just “Mordremoth” are used interchangeably throughout the event.

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Posted by: Mushroomz.4280

Mushroomz.4280

From what I’ve gathered regarding the Dragon’s Stand meta dialogue and from the final instance dialogue is that the Mouth of Mordremoth is actually Mordremoth’s physical body – it’s the mouth we saw at the end of S1/beginning of HoT. The reason why we can’t kill Mordy by killing the Mouth of Mordremoth is that his mind is effectively in all of his corruption so he can just regrow his body (explaining why the meta is a repeating event).

Actually, it’s said way earlier, in one of the the Living World chapters that the vines are Mordremoth.

Also, in Auric Basin, an Exalted Sage says, while you’re cleansing the Font of the Maguuma, that the Mordrem are “extensions of the jungle by virtue of Mordremoth” or maybe he says the dragon? Regardless, all of the Mordrem and vines are a manifestation of his corruption.

As far as the mouth of Mordremoth… it’s a bit of a misnomer, while it’s clearly not Mordremoth, he definitely is in control of it and seems to almost use it as his physical body. But then there’s that wackiness with Trahearne.

I’m going with the idea that Mordremoth isn’t a physical being. They said you could burn down every forest and kill every vine and they’d just grow back. While the Mouth of Mordremoth may be a body he uses, Trahearne is being turned into one as well. And lastly, it’s all so complicated between the shadow of the dragon, trahearne, the mouth of mordremoth, and mordremoth himself in his mind that it seems to be meaningless to say “Oh that’s him!”, because it seems to very well be all of them at once.

The one thing I do not understand, we kill Mordremoth’s mind, and yet, it doesn’t die because it still exists within Trahearne… but we accessed him mind through Trahearne? So how is it still there? And only Trahearne’s death releases all of the magic Mordremoth has absorbed back to the world…

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Which begs one question though.
Why are they called Dragons if they dont have to look like dragons.

One theory I’ve had for a while about Zhaitan’s appearance. He USED to look like the giant dragon we see in the trailers about Orr (with the standard look and all), but over time and many battles with his fellows, he was damaged enough that he had to use his own champions/lesser dragons to heal his body. So somewhere under Orr is the other half of his body. Mordremoth may have a ‘core’ body that looks very similar to a normal dragon, but with tendrils and vines growing from it and spreading everywhere.

We’ve seen primordus’s head, so we know what he looks like.

The one thing I do not understand, we kill Mordremoth’s mind, and yet, it doesn’t die because it still exists within Trahearne… but we accessed him mind through Trahearne? So how is it still there? And only Trahearne’s death releases all of the magic Mordremoth has absorbed back to the world…

Maybe in some weird fashion, the fight took place within Trahearnes head, and before being destroyed in the ‘dream’, Mordremoth planted the seed?

The thing I like to note, Mordremoth’s death caused a huge outflow/release of magic, spreading along the ley-lines, one went to Tahir and the egg, and two flows went elsewhere (One to rata novus maybe?). However, zhaitan’s “Death” did not do the same. So I think Zhaitan may have simply been forced back into dormancy, while Mordremoth is dead dead.

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Posted by: dsslive.8473

dsslive.8473

The thing I like to note, Mordremoth’s death caused a huge outflow/release of magic, spreading along the ley-lines, one went to Tahir and the egg, and two flows went elsewhere (One to rata novus maybe?). However, zhaitan’s “Death” did not do the same. So I think Zhaitan may have simply been forced back into dormancy, while Mordremoth is dead dead.

well one can argue that Zhaitan didn’t do the same because he wasn’t fed this amount of leyline magic. Scarlet overcharged mordremoth with this maggic, and it seems to be that magic that gets released after death.

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Posted by: Diovid.9506

Diovid.9506

The thing I like to note, Mordremoth’s death caused a huge outflow/release of magic, spreading along the ley-lines, one went to Tahir and the egg, and two flows went elsewhere (One to rata novus maybe?). However, zhaitan’s “Death” did not do the same. So I think Zhaitan may have simply been forced back into dormancy, while Mordremoth is dead dead.

well one can argue that Zhaitan didn’t do the same because he wasn’t fed this amount of leyline magic. Scarlet overcharged mordremoth with this maggic, and it seems to be that magic that gets released after death.

Another theory is that the same thing did happen with Zhaitan, it just wasn’t shown. One theory for why Tequatl became stronger (for which there was a lore reason as Anet stated) is that he absorbed (part of) the energy of Zhaitan after Zhaitan’s death.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

The thing I like to note, Mordremoth’s death caused a huge outflow/release of magic, spreading along the ley-lines, one went to Tahir and the egg, and two flows went elsewhere (One to rata novus maybe?). However, zhaitan’s “Death” did not do the same. So I think Zhaitan may have simply been forced back into dormancy, while Mordremoth is dead dead.

well one can argue that Zhaitan didn’t do the same because he wasn’t fed this amount of leyline magic. Scarlet overcharged mordremoth with this magic, and it seems to be that magic that gets released after death.

It would make sense if Orr was above one heavy section of ley-lines as well, but even if it wasn’t as much of a charge, something probably should’ve happened IMO.

Another theory is that the same thing did happen with Zhaitan, it just wasn’t shown. One theory for why Tequatl became stronger (for which there was a lore reason as Anet stated) is that he absorbed (part of) the energy of Zhaitan after Zhaitan’s death.

Though that theory can easily be applied to Zhaitan going Dormant and the energy flowing from his body again, as opposed to consuming/absorbing it. Like how Primordus was basically a huge fountain of magic for the Asura gate hub while he was sleeping.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Actually, it’s said way earlier, in one of the the Living World chapters that the vines are Mordremoth.

Taimi’s statement in S2 is not only theoretical, but grossly taken out of proportion by players and not the same as what Trahearne said.

Taimi said that the vines attacking the waypoints – and only those – are likely growing from Mordremoth’s own body. Those giant unmoving (after initial growth) ones are corruption, while the smaller tendrils are minions, she explained.

Trahearne says that Mordremoth is his corruption – that he can regrow his body from any of those large, unmoving (after initial growth) vines.

Also, in Auric Basin, an Exalted Sage says, while you’re cleansing the Font of the Maguuma, that the Mordrem are “extensions of the jungle by virtue of Mordremoth” or maybe he says the dragon? Regardless, all of the Mordrem and vines are a manifestation of his corruption.

This is more metaphorical in the fact that mordrem are all plants and it is vast vegetation that make up a jungle. This is why he isn’t “the plant dragon” but “the jungle dragon” – because his vast corruption creates vast vegetation aka a jungle.

As far as the mouth of Mordremoth… it’s a bit of a misnomer, while it’s clearly not Mordremoth, he definitely is in control of it and seems to almost use it as his physical body. But then there’s that wackiness with Trahearne.

Having fought the Mouth of Mordremoth last night, I can say with 100% complete certainty that the Mouth of Mordremoth is indeed Mordremoth itself.

The voice is exactly the same. The tone is exactly the same. It speaks as if it were Mordremoth, sounding like it, and commands the three Mordrem Guard commanders. Furthermore:

  1. From the base of its tail you can see the giant vines that are Mordremoth’s corruption growing. This basically means that the entire “snake”-like" aspect of Mordremoth is just a grown head+neck from his corruption. This would either make Mordremoth being like a multi-tailed snake, or a hydra-like dragon with the body being a mass of vines rather than something more body-like.
  2. When the Mouth of Mordremoth dies, a blue flash of light appears, which happens just the same way as the final story cinematic, from the same origin too (just higher up).
  3. The first lines the Mouth of Mordremoth says, iirc, is the line said by Mordremoth in the final story instance while he’s “distracted”: Armies cannot stop me.

And lastly, it’s all so complicated between the shadow of the dragon, trahearne, the mouth of mordremoth, and mordremoth himself in his mind that it seems to be meaningless to say “Oh that’s him!”, because it seems to very well be all of them at once.

Mordremoth was never the Shadow of the Dragon; regarding the others – Mouth of Mordremoth = Mordremoth’s physical body by all indication, and Trahearne seems to be where he goes in his death throes, so yes Trahearne does “become” Mordremoth, but Mordremoth isn’t all those things at once – he’s one, then the other.

The one thing I do not understand, we kill Mordremoth’s mind, and yet, it doesn’t die because it still exists within Trahearne… but we accessed him mind through Trahearne? So how is it still there? And only Trahearne’s death releases all of the magic Mordremoth has absorbed back to the world…

I don’t think we ever killed his mind. When we fought him in the Dream, we see Mordremoth take two forms: the shadowy face in the sky, which we never touch, and the limbed avatar he uses to fight back.

I believe that rather than killing his mind, we just killed his mind’s manifestation within the Dream, forcing him out of it.

How I see it, we killed Mordremoth by doing three things nigh simultaneously:

  1. First, we drove him out of the Dream, disconnecting him from all sylvari and in turn removing his “mental escape routes”.
  2. Then, we killed his physical body (done by the Pact in open world). The beginning of this (the end of the Mouth fight) likely happens as we drove him out of the Dream.
  3. His mind retreated into Trahearne and could only retreat into Trahearne because of said disconnection, but we kill Trahearne with Caladbolg thus slaying this retreating piece of him – this likely happens the same time as the Mouth of Mordremoth shudders, flashes blue and burnt flesh, and falls dead resulting in impaling itself on the rotten, corrupted tree.

The thing I like to note, Mordremoth’s death caused a huge outflow/release of magic, spreading along the ley-lines, one went to Tahir and the egg, and two flows went elsewhere (One to rata novus maybe?). However, zhaitan’s “Death” did not do the same. So I think Zhaitan may have simply been forced back into dormancy, while Mordremoth is dead dead.

While possible, I’d like to point out the death of the Mouth of Mordremoth. As I said above in this post, he flashes the same color that we see being ley line magic in the cinematics of both S1’s end and HoT’s end. It wasn’t nearly as colorful as the cinematics which are depicting a far-vantage and player-perspective (not character-perspective) thus likely doesn’t show what Tyrians would see.

I kind of doubt that there’d be a line of white-blue going from Lion’s Arch to Thaumanova after Scarlet’s death. Further, IIRC, no one reported seeing a flash of light. Something so grand with Scarlet’s battle would have been noted.

Given this, that flash of light we see coming solely at Mouth of Mordremoths’ body is likely how we would see an explosion of magic along ley lines.

Zhaitan’s body, when it ‘died’, was covered by fog and mist. Thus we wouldn’t be able to see it without ArenaNet showing a fancy cinematic.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Mushroomz.4280

Mushroomz.4280

I think it happened and wasn’t shown like Diovid said. There were a lot of mistakes in the development of Zhaitan that I don’t think Arena Net is going to replicate. I think the burst of magic was added to show that Mordremoth is TRULY dead. A wonkier idea I had was that Zhaitan can’t die, why? Because he’s the dragon of the undead. There’s no real support behind that, but I SUPPOSE IT COULD MAKE SENSE……………

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Posted by: Bryon.3164

Bryon.3164

I have been thinking the same thing for a long time, well ever since he “died”. Much in the same way Dhuum in the first game could never be killed only made dormant again.

Yes we killed his body, and some energy may have been released. But his body was just an amalgamation of flesh. I think we’ll end up fighting an ethereal /spirit Zhaitan.