Guild Wars 2

Ok, so for those that didn’t find out from the NPCs in Orr, Grenth is the son of Dwayna and a mortal man.

Now that the info is out of the way, what we (players) know is that the Wintersday has traditionally been about Grenth vs Dwayna and the battle for whether or not spring arrives on time or arrives late.

So what I want to know, and this has been a bit of confusion to me, is that whether or not the whole battle for the weather just a result of traditional (mortal) human emotions and relations between parent and child?

Is Grenth, in some way, a bit of a rebellious child during this time of the year or was it some agreement that he made with Dwayna (his mother)?

Well it’s obvious that the changing of the seasons isn’t really in the hands of the gods. At a specific time every year eventually winter would end and spring would begin, and this has continued to happen even after the gods went silent and vanished entirely. So honestly I’m not exactly sure what it was about. I mean the gods themselves were involved, as the avatars showed up every year, but what the end result was, and why the gods got involved really, is something that I do not know.

Wait, Grenth is Dwayna’s son?? O.o This is gonna change my whole outlook on the whole Dwayna vs Grenth conflict during GW1 Wintersdays…

Zaxares.5419:

Wait, Grenth is Dwayna’s son?? O.o This is gonna change my whole outlook on the whole Dwayna vs Grenth conflict during GW1 Wintersdays…

He’s currently in a rebellious phase.

I remember having a freak out all over tumblr about this right after discovering the god of “hard-core and misunderstood” was Dwayna’s son.
The conclusion was that the conflict ultimately was of the rebellious teen variety and it culminated it this drawing (by nyreen-kandr0s on tumblr) (Grenth’s totally into dwarven metal too it’s 109823% cannon ok)

I see the Dwayna vs Grenth activities during Wintersday as nothing more than a holiday tradition. Yes, they are mother and son, but one is the goddess of life and warmth while the other rules over death and cold. As a way of interacting with humanity, they would participate in the Wintersday festival and “fight” to determine the length of winter, when in reality they had no control over the weather, and humanity knew this. It was a way of keeping touch with humanity on a annual basis before the gods distanced themselves further.

Perhaps the reason why it’s Dwayna vs Grenth and the other gods don’t participate is BECAUSE Grenth is Dwayna’s son. Dwayna loves humanity, and Grenth likely feels the same way. Dwayna watches over humans in life, and Grenth cares for (or punishes) their souls in death, so they have the closest connection to their followers out of all the gods.

Kormir doesn’t count because she’s the patron god of thieves.

Raynor.1973:

Perhaps the reason why it’s Dwayna vs Grenth and the other gods don’t participate is BECAUSE Grenth is Dwayna’s son. Dwayna loves humanity, and Grenth likely feels the same way. Dwayna watches over humans in life, and Grenth cares for (or punishes) their souls in death, so they have the closest connection to their followers out of all the gods.

Well, being half human, I think Grenth really cares for humans (as even though he’s dark because he’s related to death, he acts as a paternal figure for those souls). And other gods participated in Wintersday. Balthazar supported Grenth and Melandru supported Dwayna. Lyssa and Kormir never stated their loyalties in that fight since their wintersday costumes came without new quests or events related to them.

Raynor.1973:

Kormir doesn’t count because she’s the patron god of thieves.

Where is that stated? O.o Kormir was a Paragon in life, and leader of the Sunspears, both are very far from the concept Thieves represent.

Lokheit.7943:

Raynor.1973:

Kormir doesn’t count because she’s the patron god of thieves.

Where is that stated? O.o Kormir was a Paragon in life, and leader of the Sunspears, both are very far from the concept Thieves represent.

Then again she’s ALSO the Goddess of Truth, and took the mantle once held by the god of SECRETS….

Possible there’s some confusion there…

I think the point is that she stole you character’s chance at being a god, thus she’s the goddess of thieves.

Narcemus.1348:

I think the point is that she stole you character’s chance at being a god, thus she’s the goddess of thieves.

Ahhhhh, I didn’t get that pun haha and I was mad at her for that too xD (I still say the five instead of the six :P)

Even though he is Dwayna’s son Grenth is probably the one god that is still in the pantheon I’d be scared the most to be with, then Balthazar because of the mural from Ascalon City post-Searing.

I’m still wondering who’s the lucky kitten that managed to bed Dwayna! XD

exelion.2369:

Even though he is Dwayna’s son Grenth is probably the one god that is still in the pantheon I’d be scared the most to be with, then Balthazar because of the mural from Ascalon City post-Searing.

Balthazar is really a scaring dude, guy came to the world from a portal holding his father’s head, tough guy :P

Zaxares.5419:

I’m still wondering who’s the lucky kitten that managed to bed Dwayna! XD

If I remember right Grenth was born when a mortal sculptor (never specified to be Malchor) touched the face of Dwayna, from that moment of love she concieved Grenth (thought or actual birth is unknown). I don’t have the exact source for this though, I believe I just heard Konig say it.

Well from what I know of Wintersday, Grenth prefers the cold wintery month, while Dwayna wants the cold months to end and new life to return to the world.

Not to mention Death Gods and Life Gods always seem to argue over who is more important.

Narcemus.1348:

Zaxares.5419:

I’m still wondering who’s the lucky kitten that managed to bed Dwayna! XD

If I remember right Grenth was born when a mortal sculptor (never specified to be Malchor) touched the face of Dwayna, from that moment of love she concieved Grenth (thought or actual birth is unknown). I don’t have the exact source for this though, I believe I just heard Konig say it.

I don’t recall it ever being stated that Malchor was Grenth’s father. It is suspected but currently unconfirmed, simply that his father was a mortal sculptor. I also have never heard of this version of Grenth’s conception either.

Avatar Rage.4369:

Well from what I know of Wintersday, Grenth prefers the cold wintery month, while Dwayna wants the cold months to end and new life to return to the world.

Not to mention Death Gods and Life Gods always seem to argue over who is more important.

I like to think of them as being equally important, potentially balancing forces. Life ends with death, and death can give rise to new life. From what I can tell, as the gods cannot actually control the seasons, the “Dwayna vs Grenth” concept is more for show than anything, to remind Tyrians (specifically humans) of the importance of two equal but opposing forces. Life lessons really.

As a side note, I think Melandru sided with Dwayna due to being a godess of nature, and by some extension, life as well, though perhaps a different aspect that that of Dwayna. Balthazar sided with Grenth because he is the god of war and challenge. He seems to love a good fight and has his own reasons for joining the fight. I cannot say with certainty which side Kormir and Lyssa would have chosen, though I suspect Kormir’s ideals are more in line with Balthazar and Grenth while Lyssa is more likely along the lines of Dwayna’s views.

I want to say they more than likely left Kormir and Lyssa out of the game on purpose because of the fact that they really do not line up that well with the others. I mean they had more than enough opportunity to add them to the story if they had wanted last Wintersday when they added their costumes.

Narcemus.1348:

Zaxares.5419:

I’m still wondering who’s the lucky kitten that managed to bed Dwayna! XD

If I remember right Grenth was born when a mortal sculptor (never specified to be Malchor) touched the face of Dwayna, from that moment of love she concieved Grenth (thought or actual birth is unknown). I don’t have the exact source for this though, I believe I just heard Konig say it.

Grenth’s father is only said to be a mortal sculptor.

The touching of Dwayna’s face comes from the Orrian History Scrolls – when Malchor, now blind, finished the sculpture of Dwayna from memory she weeped at how accurate it was and allowed him to touch her face so that he himself can tell the accuracies.

Its fan speculation that this is what led to Grenth being born. Silly speculation if you ask me, and solely dependent on the idea that you can’t have sex with a god (hey, Zeus does it all the time, why can’t Dwayna?).

Narcemus.1348:

I want to say they more than likely left Kormir and Lyssa out of the game on purpose because of the fact that they really do not line up that well with the others. I mean they had more than enough opportunity to add them to the story if they had wanted last Wintersday when they added their costumes.

Don’t fit? Lyssa represents spring in Elona, and Kormir’s militant like Balthazar.

They fit kitten well if you ask me.

Narcemus.1348:

Zaxares.5419:

I’m still wondering who’s the lucky kitten that managed to bed Dwayna! XD

If I remember right Grenth was born when a mortal sculptor (never specified to be Malchor) touched the face of Dwayna, from that moment of love she concieved Grenth (thought or actual birth is unknown). I don’t have the exact source for this though, I believe I just heard Konig say it.

Dwayna loved Malchor and it was speculated he was the only human to ever sculpt the gods, so it would stand he was Grenth’s fashzah. Although I’m sure some people will have some bullkitten to counter that with no more proof than I provide ^.^ Whoever it was though he was one lucky duck lol. Or maybe she’s like a praying mantis and mated with some poor sap then ripped off his head and ate it afterwards O_O

Konig, you know as well as me that Greek/Roman gods and Tyrian gods are two completely different things. You cannot use religion outside of Tyria to make a point within the game. Not to say the gods can/can’t have sex in the physical form (hasn’t been specified either way). And you can always find ways to try to make things fit, but honestly Kormir and Lyssa fit just as well as speculations on the connections between the dragons and gods. Kormir is a military person before becoming a goddess, but that doesn’t mean she continues to be such. In fact I have seen very little about her to make her seem militarily affiliated at all after her ascension. And Lyssa though does make some sense, with her affiliation to beauty, but still it seems to me that ArenaNet not including them in the war of the gods was an intentional action, seeing as that last wintersday was long before GW2 production reached any major milestones.

i’m confused now… I thought Grenth’s familial ties to Dwayna was known even in GW1 …and from every piece of lore I have seen, it’s not a battle between “good” and “evil” or anything like that. Grenth is largely a benevolent god (still not quite clear why he allows undead and if a possible return by Dhuum would stop Zhaitan) and Dwayna obviously is one as well.

No, in GW1 it was never stated what Grenth was before he became a god. All we knew was that he took out Dhuum and claimed the title of Lord of the Underworld afterwards. I agree it is not a battle between good and evil, it is a battle between life and death. Now obviously many people think death and evil go hand and hand, but not in this case. Grenth just asks for citizens to look with somber reflection at the death around them and realize that it comes for all, eventually. Whereas Dwayna asks for the love in people’s hearts to empower her to remove the doom and gloom of winter and bring life back into the world. In all reality it is mainly two different outlooks on the seasons. Now obviously many people take this too far, it seems to me that the creation of Grentches and the killing of random people on the road (Necromancer Scorza) are taking things too far, my character refused involvement in these actions even though he is a devout worshipper of Grenth.

As for Necromancy, I think the way it works is that the magic is out there, and people can do it, it’s just a matter of the god of death. Dhuum refused to allow people to do this. We don’t know how, just that he did. In my mind he probably killed any who attempted this magic, much in the same way that it is assumed he killed those who escaped death, or even survived traumatic events. Grenth doesn’t feel like it is his role to be oppressive to the living as Dhuum did, so he didn’t continue the ban, and in fact taught humans how to use these powers.

Dhuum didn’t refuse necromancy – he just refused undead. He hunted down anyone who “cheated death.”

And nothing says Grenth taught humans how to use necromancy, resurrect the dead, or make undead.

Grenth taught Desmina

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dhuum didn’t refuse necromancy – he just refused undead. He hunted down anyone who “cheated death.”

And nothing says Grenth taught humans how to use necromancy, resurrect the dead, or make undead.

Dhuum fairly obviously would have refused necromancy given his hatred of all forms of undead, resurrections and cheating death.

No doubt necromancy came about at the time that Abaddon taught the other races to use magic however given that it’s a form of magic and Abaddon.

But then that begs the question of how Dhuum was known to detest cheating death through resurrection and necromancy if he was deposed before the mortal races had even been given magic.

You bring up a valid point. I mean, unless Dhuum, himself, was around before magic was sealed within the bloodstone, there would be no way for us to know his reaction to other races using resurrection and necromancy…