Guild Wars 2

You made the same mistake in NF. The players I played with it all agree, Kormir was the most annoying NPC and you forced the players to be humble. I personally feel the starting personal story lines, (green knight, finding your parents, etc), were way better than the entire story. Quit making main characters like Traherne who whine the entire story and then end up taking all the credit. If these guys are going to be taking the credit, make them good people to fight with. Not just make one speech and become commander of an entire army.

This video sums up peoples thoughts on GW1 NF (spoilers on GW1 NF campaign) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmkAoLC6_4

Please for future stories dont do what you did in NF and GW2, don’t just make an elder dragon the main enemy in every campaign (mix it up, you have plenty of choices other than a dragon who wants to destroy the world for no particular reason).

Trahearne is worse than Kormir because Kormir still acted humble and appreciated the struggle of your team. She also did a lot behind the scenes.

Meanwhile Trahearne is an outright coward who is too scared to do anything after his selfish “wyld hunt” is over and whenever the Pact is attacked he tries to shove it in your face how they’re coming after him and only him.

He is just too dang condescending to the player and that is why he is worse than Kormir.

At least with Kormir you felt her desperation, she felt real, and she had a voice that didn’t bore me. Kormir also had an interesting conflict of repent after being the original one to cause nightfall.

It pains me to say it, but Kormir was actually a decent character. But Salad-Head….?

@Deified,

Personally I loved NF. I know a minor group of people disliked Kormir. But it is not as much as the hatred against e.g. Rurik or Trahearne. Please try and make arguments on our own behalve instead of only referring to the argument I’m right cause others agree with me.

So please try to explain what is wrong with Kormir, and maybe how you should have written Nightfall yourself.

Kormir is more of a buttmonkey instead of a hated character.

People like to make to make fun of her, but we don’t actually hate her. It’s kinda like Master Togo who isn’t a bad character himself, but due to cheesy dialogue he becomes a joke.

Need I remind people how hilariously bad some cutscenes were? (In a good way.)

Traderp on the other hand is just bad.

I know that video, it’s great and funny. But your points aren’t true. Kormir is nothing like Trahearne. She is actually useful, and you can really see that she cares about her men and the world.
She thinks the nightfall is her fault for meddling with the Apocrypha, even though, atleast in my view, it would have happened anyway.
It’s true later on she doesn’t help you fight anymore, but she is blind for crying out loud. I bet you wouldn’t have even come along if a demon ate your freaking eyeballs!
Kormir was a bad*ss to be honest. Maybe the PC deserved godhood still a little more than her, it wouldn’t been possibly story wise, as the PC just can’t become a god.

Regarding Trahearne, I’ll quote a Guru post I made about the topic:

“[…] Gwen, who stills holds my number one spot of most hated NPC. She is as terrible as Trahearne for pretty much the same reasons. She shows up out of nowhere (well you could meet her as a kid, if you were from prophecies, leading to the same problem with Trahearne only having significants to you if you are sylvari), tags along with you, despite having to lead an organization (in her case, in absence of the real leader), annoys the living hell out of you whenever she opens her mouth (”charr are so mean!" QQ) and worst of all, she get’s all the credit! Oh what was that sentence in Ghosts of Ascalon, who is the greatest hero of humanity? The one who killed 4 major villians and ended several wars and had friends in many different races and cultures all over the world or the one who just went along on the later missions and founded one town. Oh it’s Gwen, yeah makes sense…
Hell I would even say Master Togo was a bigger hero than her (ended 1 war, schooled a new generation of heroes, sacrificed himself to save his half-brother). If anything Trahearne is not the Kormir of GW2, he is the Gwen, which is far far faaaaaar worse."

I liked Kormir and I like Trahearne. I honestly do not see why so many hate either of them.

You guys know there is already a thread for Trahearne hate under ‘Personal Story’?
Don’t bring your problems over here >.<

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Maybe the PC deserved godhood still a little more than her, it wouldn’t been possibly story wise, as the PC just can’t become a god.

Well, why not. would’ve been fun for a change imo!

Flying around, smiting some harpies and hekets? Yeah, would have been fun, but I guess the PC was overpowered enough, making him a god is pointless, he already is a physical god.^^

I make it my personal goal to make any rude emotes available to me any time I am near ANYTHING relating to Komir’s god hood.

I think the fact that they have stupid gods like Komir is one of the main reasons the Human species has declined and is nearing extinction. (though maybe that is an intentional part of the lore… hmmm)

Trehearne is Kormir V. 2.0

Ok ok, maybe I am being a little too harsh on Kormir, but honestly I just don’t like that she took all the credit and/or made bad decisions throughout most of the game. But you guys are right, she is better than Whiner plant.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Hell I would even say Master Togo was a bigger hero than her (ended 1 war, schooled a new generation of heroes, sacrificed himself to save his half-brother). If anything Trahearne is not the Kormir of GW2, he is the Gwen, which is far far faaaaaar worse."

To be fair, Gwen was interesting for some players, and she was an incredibly powerful hero. She looked nice in her alternate armors too!

Please don’t compare Traderp to Gwen because Gwen and Norgu kicked major kitten when my Necromancers were on vacation!

Flying around, smiting some harpies and hekets? Yeah, would have been fun, but I guess the PC was overpowered enough, making him a god is pointless, he already is a physical god.^^

GWAMM: God Walking Among Mere Mortals!

With Gwen there are only 2 types of people, the ones who hate her and who love her. I certainly hate her with a passion. I did when she kept following me in pre-searing and I did even more so when she would never should up about the charr. No I’m not putting Gwen and Trahearne on the same level, she is even worse for me.
And this stupid cheesy love story. Ugh. Kieran was actually quite likeable, but he has a horrible taste in women.
Luckily I had Norgu, so I never had to put Gwen in my line up if I wanted a mesmer, as one was usually enough. I still have that armor for her, but more to get my HoM points, not that I cared about what she looked, she wasn’t out to be visible anyway. Oh how I wished the Charr would have made a better job with the searing, not only would it have spared me of her horrible whining in EotN, no there wouldn’t be a Logan derping around too. It’s the genes you know.

I liked Gwen a lot more too. I think if she came out of nowhere in Eotn, then I would have probably hated her, but the fact they used her in pre searing and other parts of the story really got you attached to her. I loved reading about he exploits in Ebonhawke. It made me sad when I visited her grave and heard her theme playing ;(

Kain Francois.4328:

Trahearne is worse than Kormir because Kormir still acted humble and appreciated the struggle of your team. She also did a lot behind the scenes.

So you’re saying Trahearne didn’t do much behind the scenes? He didn’t create alliances with the most renown blacksmiths, call in favors with isolating races, garnered the charr legions’ and Lionguard’s support, or oversaw the construction of Fort Trinity, or devised the plans for invading Orr (with consultation)?

I don’t agree with you about the whole “Trahearne is condescending” – he acknowledges how the risen are after everyone, not just him. I don’t see or remember how you could get such. He goes into the front lines four times when he very much didn’t have to – I wouldn’t call that a coward, even if he is a bit of a coward (and acknowledges such!) about fulfilling his Wyld Hunt which is something he overcomes (with the PC’s and Pale Tree’s support).

I said this several times over on Guru2, and I’ll say it again: the only real issue with Trahearne is his voice actor, which leads people to believe his character is just as emotionless and robotic as his voice. He doesn’t go stealing a storyline (hell, he’s barely in it after you meet him in Claw Island! He’s just around for you to give a debriefing to, and for your next assignment – little different than Destiny’s Edge figures at the beginning of the personal story). He’s not contrived or condencending or anything all you people complain about.

Trahearne’s only crime is having a bad voice actor. Just as Kormir’s only crime is that the game’s story couldn’t let the PC become a god.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

With Gwen there are only 2 types of people, the ones who hate her and who love her.

Guess I’m not a person, since I neither hate nor love her.

No you aren’t, you are the king of death, therefore you are god or something, you don’t count.

So the real lesson here is, if you’re going to have a character do awesome things, they better have an awesome voice.

To me, the one thing that will make Trahearne fine with me is a cutscene of an explosion and him walking away from it, because you know, cool guys don’t look at explosions.

I think Trahearn is a savable person. It will just require a bit more development in the voice and character department in the next expansion, but in my mind the story would be worse if they just killed him off for someone newer and better.

Salvage him, then kill him off anyway for emotional impact.

Be all ‘Alas, Poor Scrappy.’ That’ll show ’em.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

No you aren’t, you are the king of death, therefore you are god or something, you don’t count.

Okay, okay, you caught me red handed.

Just don’t go destroying my Phylactery, okay?

Son of Elias.5420:

So the real lesson here is, if you’re going to have a character do awesome things, they better have an awesome voice.

Definitely. No one would like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator if he had Steven Hawking’s electronic voice (even if that’d be much more hilariously fitting).

Narcemus.1348:

I think Trahearn is a savable person. It will just require a bit more development in the voice and character department in the next expansion, but in my mind the story would be worse if they just killed him off for someone newer and better.

Agreed, but I’ll be surprised if Trahearne continues to be much of a major player in future dragon fights. Then again, I suppose he leads the Pact so he’s a major figure now… but Orr was his thing, he was qualified to be a decision-maker regarding Zhaitan because it fell into his own area of expertise. Ultimately though, Orr is his business, and though he may feel it’s important to take the Pact against the other dragons now, he doesn’t have the same special insight into them.

I don’t find Trahearne that annoying personally – yet. And I joke about Kormir stealing the credit, but I don’t think I really mind too much. The PCs not being core historical figures (just happening to be there when history goes down) has kind of been a Guild Wars thing throughout, and it allows their world-building to be much more consistent.

Personally, I think it’d be nice if the other racial leaders kicked some butt against the other dragons (or whatever we end up fighting next). Trahearne is the firstborn of the Firstborn, so he’s essentially the sylvari leader since the Pale Tree isn’t very mobile.

But meanwhile, we have Queen Jennah – a powerful mesmer; Knut Whitebear – the descendant of Asgeir “I’m Gonna Punch Your Teeth Out!” Dragonrender; and whoever the asura leader is. I don’t know.

Plus, the charr recently got the Claw of Whatever back in ‘Ghosts of Ascalon’, which can supposedly unite the Legions and choose a new Leaderdude. Let’s have that happen. Then he or she can kick some butt too.

Technically the Norn have no leader, Knut Whitebear just happens to be the leader of their most important settlement.
The Asura also don’t have one leader, they have the Arcane Council, which I doubt would go and kick a dragons butt, going anywhere near one is too dangerous.
And the guy who got the Claw is Smodur, Imperator of the Iron Legion, IIRC. But even with the Claw, I highly doubt he is powerful enough to unite the Charr under him. However I could see him going and kicking some dragonbutt, he or any of the Imperators.

Indeed, Smodur the Unflinching is the dude in question. I’ve written before about how I think he should handle it – become Khan-Ur without ever calling yourself Khan-Ur, save the pride of the other imperators, and rule the new glorious charr empire!

I can’t see the Arcane Council doing anything useful for anyone but themselves, but perhaps Zojja could channel some of her frustrations into the Snaff Memorial Dragon-Smushing Krewe? Of course if we’re going by races, I think the charr (and/or humans) already have dibs on Kralkatorrik. The asura more broadly have their grudge with Primordus, who forced them above ground and out of their former glory – hmm, I suppose that might be enough to rouse the Council to action, if they thought there was a chance of getting any back.

Mm, but if we use Zojja, we’d probably have to use the other Edge member for their racial stuff. Which would make sense, to be fair – it isn’t likely that Jennah would go anywhere without her bodyguard-with-a-crush Logan. I still say she’s doing a mind whammy on him. Can’t trust Mesmers.

Actually, Anise could always accompany Jennah, but they have no real reason to be replacement Marshals for the Pact.
I think, instead of putting the head of a race as the leader of the Pact, have someone who is personally affected by killing an Elder Dragon. Like with Trahearne, killing Zhatain coincided with his Wyld Hunt of cleansing Orr. I don’t really see him continuing on as the leader, since he’s kinda done with everything bothering him personally (of course, all Sylvari still are ED fighting machines, it’s just it doesn’t make sense because what does he know about the far north?)
TL;DR racial leaders shouldn’t be heads of the pact, just people who have a personal reason to lead