Guild Wars 2

Not Scarlet, not Aerin, not Mordremoth.
And no, I’m not talking about who sabotaged the Zephyrites.

As soon as I faced Aerin in combat, I noticed strong similarities between him and Scarlet:
1) Both are Sylvari
2) Both are engineers, although not at the same level.
Scarlet studied HARD to get to the level of geniality and engineering skills we know of.

Can we say the same about our dear….Trader Aerin? (http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/29mrm5/a_little_background_on_a_certain_saboteur/)
As you can see, before departing with the Zephyrites, Aerin was not in the smallest way either an assassin or someone capable of creating a large and varied quantity of grenades and explosives.

This rang me a bell, that rang again when I went through Scarlet’s old base in Prosperity.
From the speeches and holorecordings, we apprehend that Scarlet struggles ALOT, initially, to create working steam creatures and portals.
Then, all of a sudden, she “happens” (quote: “I may have created…”) to create an intelligent steam “brain”, as she puts it. A steam brain that will develop more advanced versions of the portals that she couldn’t get to stabilize properly…
Also, when you examine the Steam Minotaur head as an engineer, you discover that it was a very rude and crude version that not even OUR personal character would have made. (IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/352zKqC.jpg )
In my eyes, it is implied that, before Ceara started to become Scarlet, she was a very intelligent sylvari but not as intelligent and genius to do what she did.

Anyway, this made me think about what Scarlet said in the holorecordings we examined in the Dead End’s tavern.
Let me report one particular sentence for you…
“Ever since I came out of Omadd’s machine, you’ve been taking credit for my ideas. They are mine! Not yours.”

I was very much convinced that the entity behind Scarlet and Aerin is Mordremoth. This would make alot of sense (with the madness of both Aerin and Scarlet, and even the fact that the main monsters we fight off while battling with Aerin are in fact jungle tendrils and overgrown husks which are, in my opinion, Mordremoth’s minions) and its been my ongoing theory since a year. (I held many discussions about Mordremoth and Sylvari being linked, even when it wasn’t acknowledged by anyone, not even by Konig. But to this day it seems I was right).

The fact that gets me thinking is that it is implied that what these two characters have been capable of doing and achieveing is not their work….and that has always been crystal clear.
But does Mordremoth’s corruption, besides causing split personalities and general madness, also increase one’s engineering and intellective capabilities (in Aerin’s case from 0 to at least decent).

The question is: is it Mordremoth itself infusing his minions with superior intelligence when he corrupts them (which I dont think is the case) or is it someone else working with and on these individuals? Someone who is either linked with Mordremoth or gains something by awakening him.

My new theory is that some other entity, be it a Mursaat or something/someone we haven’t yet heard of (hell, maybe it is even Mr E), is setting things in motion and pulling the strings behind all of this. Someone, or something, capable of partially controlling people and enhancing them. We have been told that it was Scarlet’s grand plan to re-awaken Mordremoth.
I think it is someone’s else grand plan to reawaken Mordremoth to achieve something else – be it destruction or something we will be introduced later.

Removal of the leaders of Tyria perhaps?…..

If you have forgotten there was a mysterious villain behind Zinn’s Golems in GW1 that we haven’t seen yet…..

He could be the Man Behind the Man…..

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Removal of the leaders of Tyria perhaps?…..

If you have forgotten there was a mysterious villain behind Zinn’s Golems in GW1 that we haven’t seen yet…..

He could be the Man Behind the Man…..

I’m still waiting for a time travel story, so we can run around and find the villain of those days, while our character from GW1 runs around searching for the same guy and we comically always appear in the same area right after the other is gone. :P

That was 250 years ago, though. The balance of probability is that whoever was responsible for that has long since gone to dust.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

That was 250 years ago, though. The balance of probability is that whoever was responsible for that has long since gone to dust.

Unless…… He wasn’t a normal person…..

Livia has survived to this time so I don’t see another powerful sorceror living for so long to be unrealistic.

Of course that does broaden the possibilities since the mysterious villain could be just about anybody with a male gender that’s not a Sylvari from the Pale Tree(Sylvari from other trees can be included)….

We can presumably count out Dhuum as well considering he was imprisoned in the Underworld when the mysterious villain tricked Zinn into making assassin golems for him.

We can’t count out Menzies though nor can we count out Palawa Joko or the mysterious Ecclesiate Xun Rao either…..

Anyone from Guild Wars 1 or Guild Wars 2 who is male and not confirmed dead, sealed, Sylvari of the Pale Tree or an ingame Hero is a potential suspect!

Lazarus the Dire, perhaps? The last surviving Mursaat is on a crusade to see the newer races wiped from the world, and the Elder Dragons are the perfect “weapon” to do this with.

After reading the first half of the OP, I seriously thought you were leading to the true nemesis being the Steam Brain. Her first machines were crude, but after the Brain was able to expand on the steam creatures’ intelligence on its own, her machines were able to advance at a much faster rate, since she was probably using the Brain’s own designs.

On a side note, I’m not sure if it’s Asura dialogue or not, but Taimi says something like “she could have built something like this as a toddler”, and the player can respond with something along the lines of, “Well she had to start some where.” Taimi then says something like, “I guess I can’t blame her for being born as an adult.”

Erukk, I know, but I never thought such a thing…it doesn’t sound right.
What I believe is that I find it rather strange that so far our Mordremoth’s agents have both shown engineering and increased intellectual capabilities.
I also have to say that I wouldn’t have chosen this theory wasn’t it for the Scarlet holorecording bit…but once again, I’m not totally excluding Mordremoth for being the only one responsible for this increased “geniality”.
I mean, Aerin was a TRADER, a MERCHANT. I totally exclude the possibility that he was capable of such things BEFORE he was corrupted….
We still do not know much of him, let alone know if his minions have boosted intelligence and such. So far the other Elder Dragons have shown a totally different way of corrupting…Icebroods get magical and physical prowess, Primordus doesn’t corrupt at all for what we know, Zhaitan corrupts mind and body as well just like Kralkatorrik. Some retain a portion of their minds, some do not.

We can assume that either Mordremoth’s corruption leads to increased intelligence or that Mordremoth is itself an intelligent dragon, capable of organizing his own awakening and granting Scarlet increased engineering skills while manipulating her.

Or that someone else managed all of this…

Erukk.1408:

After reading the first half of the OP, I seriously thought you were leading to the true nemesis being the Steam Brain. Her first machines were crude, but after the Brain was able to expand on the steam creatures’ intelligence on its own, her machines were able to advance at a much faster rate, since she was probably using the Brain’s own designs.

Hah, me too. I’m kind of disappointed that it wasn’t his conclusion actually. I approve of the image of Scarlet arguing with the steam brain

Wouldn’t it be an interesting turn of events? Considering the alternate reality we’ve seen in the magic 8 cube, which we prevented, that instead of the Asuran playable character it was now Scarlet who discovered and in time was twisted to the will of the “Steam motherbrain”

I’m not sure I understand the reasoning here; Mordremoth’s influence causing increased intelligence is no less likely than the mursaat doing it. We’ve certainly never seen the mursaat doing it in the past. It seems that Scarlet became corrupted after exposure to the ley line beneath Prosperity. But something in that instance struck me as interesting:

Some scholars theorize that magic flows through all things, that we swim in magic as fish swim in water, or as we ourselves live in air. This magic is said to ebb and flow via currents called ley lines.

Magic infuses everything in the world. The building blocks of reality are held together by magic. With the right connectors, manipulating magical elements with the mind becomes possible.

The mind is a powerful and fragile quantity in the world equation and the Eternal Alchemy. It can move mountains or it can be shattered like glass.

My research has found a thread between magic and the mind. The two are linked. Where there is one, there must also be the other. The igniter is belief.

We’ve known for a while that Elder Dragon minions that are exposed to high levels of magic are stronger, and have more intelligence and initiative to carry out their master’s objectives. Could it be that this was what happened to Scarlet, upon discovering that ley line? Then her intelligence wouldn’t come from Mordremoth per se, but from exposure to the ley line.

Then the question becomes: how did Aerin become corrupted? Three things seem to have happened: him abandoning, or otherwise losing the protection of the Dream, him losing his mind, and him (possibly) gaining the intelligence to become an engineer. We need to find an explanation for each one, and work out what order they happened in.

Possibilities for the first include:

• Him being too far from the Pale Tree, à la Malyck. I don’t buy this one, since Dry Top may be further west than any sylvari has gone before, but it is still much closer than, say, the Labyrinthine Cliffs or the Iron Marches.
• He intentionally separated himself from the Dream. This seems more likely, especially given the Soundless mantra. But why? He expressed his wish to share his joy at being allowed aboard the Zephyr Sanctum via the Dream when that happened, why abandon it?
• He was forced to abandon the Dream. One possibility is that the Zephyrites asked him to “leave all baggage behind” on the first voyage, and that included his connection to the Dream, which I think is possible, although we should remain open-minded. Other possibilities…I don’t know if we have enough information yet to say.

Him losing his mind is unquestionably Mordremoth. But why Aerin? Was it just that the circumstances made him susceptible, as we have been assuming, or was this a deliberate and targeted thing by Mordremoth or an agent or Mordremoth? Or could it be both? It seems that Mordremoth required something aboard the Zephyr Sanctum (something to do with Glint, perhaps?). The Master of Peace says that Aerin wanted him to grant him “great power”, could it be as simple as Mordremoth wanting to consume the power of the Aspects? Whatever it is that Aerin, and by extension Mordremoth wants, we last saw it in the Master of Peace’s glowing rucksack, being carried further into the wastes.

As for how Aerin obtained his engineering capabilities…we don’t really know that they weren’t present before. But it does seem clear that his intelligence and determination were massively boosted. Unless Aerin was corrupted before boarding the Zephyr Sanctum and was faking, he isn’t a trained assassin, and yet he managed to take out Zephyrite elite guards, many Zephyrites, and rig and plant explosives. You get the impression that you’re dealing with someone who is extremely dangerous. But Aerin wasn’t directly exposed to a ley line, like Scarlet, so where could this increased capability have come from? Could it be from the Aspects themselves? Those are the only highly magical objects that I can think of that Aerin would have been exposed to recently, but we should remain open-minded on this as well.

Aerin seemed more curious than most Sylvari are, which is, given the curious nature of the Sylvari, kind of remarkable. This curiosity combined with him being a Soundless might have made him more suscepatable for corruption by Mordremoth. Though I still struggle with the idea that Mordremoth seems much smarter than all the other Elder Dragons. If he corrupted Aerin and he wanted something aboard the Zephirite ship, this would be a highly tactical move and not just an action to consume magic, as there are probably easier ways to do this. This is the thing that bothers me the most and why I still dont believe fully that Mordremoth is really behind it all. I mean, it could be that because the story is now much more immersive than the personal story that this is noticable but it could also be that ArenaNet is trying to fool us all.

As for Aerin having engineering powers. I think we should not pay much attention to it as a lot of NPC’s have a profession. Aerin just had some special powers to make the fight more fun I think. It is remarkable that that he stabbed a lot of people though. It might be his fanaticism (is this a word?) toward obeying Mordremoth or the one controlling him or to kill the Master of Peace.

As I’ve already said I’m not excluding Mordremoth to be the one controlling them…because as you said, Blurk, if it was him, it had to be a tactical manoveur.
With all the magic aboard I’d say that’s quite a tactical strike for a magic-devouring dragon. Just like Zhaitan had the Mouth to deliver him magical energy regularly, bringing the Zephyr Sanctum down from the sky might be a very wise tactic orchestrated by Mordremoth to feed upon magic…as that’s what dragons are all about after all.

I still feel strange about the increased intellectual capabilities of these two sylvaris though…

You would almost say the steam brain trying to manipulate it all. This idea really excites me as I have been curious about Steam Creatures for a long time, like most people. But I think the writers would have made such a conspiracy more obvious as it takes really good storytelling to link everything back to them, so I dont think that is the case. It is still possible that Mordremoth has a direct connection to the Dream, while the Sylvari not being his minions and that as soon as he corrupts a Sylvari, he sees everything any Sylvari ever shared through the Dream, giving him a lot of knowledge. It is known Dragon Champions have more knowledge and power than when they are normal beings (duh..) because they are an instrument of their master, thus sharing the knowledge of the Master. This is a possible reason why Mordremoth’s minions (assuming Scarlet and Aerin are Mordremoth’s minions) are more intellectual. I probably explained it really bad but it comes down to it that Mordremoth has access to everything that is stored withing the Dream and therefore gaining more knowledge than any other Elder Dragon could.

Blurk.6231:

You would almost say the steam brain trying to manipulate it all. This idea really excites me as I have been curious about Steam Creatures for a long time, like most people. But I think the writers would have made such a conspiracy more obvious as it takes really good storytelling to link everything back to them, so I dont think that is the case.

I would agree. I really hope that they expand upon the steam creatures in the future, since I find they really interesting. Though, I was surprised that Scarlet turned out to be basically the “Mother” of the steam creatures from Lornar’s Pass.

On a side note, I did find it humorous that no one batted an eyelash at Scarlet releasing self-replicating machines out into the wild. It’s like, “Here, don’t mind these replicators/Borg…”

I don’t think that Aerin is the real villain here. He got kind of mad and is searching for a master, but was very surprised to meet the Master of Peace. He was searching for something and that wasn’t the Master of Peace.

The closer investigation on the Zephyrite ship tells that the burning is not new. We see explosions in the trailer, but not the ship coming down. Aerin might have caused the explosions, but the travel hasn’t ended there. The reason the ship fell from the sky was matching magic with the Zephyrites (which one of the survivors mentions in ambience in the medic camp/new map) and there are the real informations about what happened.

The Master of Peace leaves everything behind to get his mission done and we should know nothing about this. I think he killed the Zephyrites on our way (and they believe it belongs to their burden), since Aerin uses explosives.

The prior appearance of Aerin could have several reasons. He could be soundless (and I don’t think they have to register in that village) and tried to act like a dreamer or really cut off his connection, due to the rules joining the Zephyrites.

Do we know what the 7 rules of the Zephyrites are?

Some theories/thoughts:
1 – the Asura in Maguuma.. have they grown more technologically skilled since their resettlement there? Connection to Mordy? A bloodstone?
2. The Steam Brain is a key. What if IT is the champion? What if its replication requires a model to copy, and Glint’s egg would offer another type of dragon to absorb/replicate? That would be a potent tool, presumably.
3. What is Glint’s child? Glint threw off corruption herself.. did her offspring? Are dragons born corrupt or no? What is the link between Krakall, Glint and her child? Is the egg responsible for some of this?
4. Has anyone really considered the outcome of what comes of Asura and Sylvari meeting experimentally? I’m thinking of the foundation of the Nightmare Court after the Firstborn got experimented on (I know, Secondborn acting there but the impetus was that unfortunate first encounter).. I’m thinking of Scarlet’s ‘metamorphosis’.. are there elements in each race that ought not to combine? What became of that first experiment?

Evans.6347:

Erukk.1408:

After reading the first half of the OP, I seriously thought you were leading to the true nemesis being the Steam Brain. Her first machines were crude, but after the Brain was able to expand on the steam creatures’ intelligence on its own, her machines were able to advance at a much faster rate, since she was probably using the Brain’s own designs.

Hah, me too. I’m kind of disappointed that it wasn’t his conclusion actually. I approve of the image of Scarlet arguing with the steam brain

Wouldn’t it be an interesting turn of events? Considering the alternate reality we’ve seen in the magic 8 cube, which we prevented, that instead of the Asuran playable character it was now Scarlet who discovered and in time was twisted to the will of the “Steam motherbrain”

It could gave been some other intelligence, something that was able to influence the steam brains through the steam portals. Possibly something in The Rift. Something that was also able to influence Scarlet when she meddled with portals and ley lines.

You know what would be awesome, if the villain is the main character, but from a parallel universe. As far as I remember (but it was a long time ago shortly after release of GW2) I encountered in my personal story as an asura mesmer myself from a parallel unvierse (being all evil dictatorish and such…). And I think my alter ego used also steam creatures and also accessed this world through portals… there are at least similarities. However, it could also be that my alter ego was corrupted by the same “man behind it all” as in this universe… we might never know

Something that I’ve noticed that both Scarlet and Aerin have in common is the fact that there is another entity talking to them in their minds. Like you said, Scarlet was arguing with an entity about the ideas being hers. Aerin after the first time we fight him also talked to someone else. His line: “Unhappy times. Unhappy. Must find the master. Yes, you’re right. Must not let them stop me.”, clearly shows that there was another entity he was talking to.

The more I read about the steam machines the more I like imagine a bunch of daleks just skidding around on ice and falling off cliffs in the shiverpeaks, oh and zapping some very confused grawl.

It would be a lot more acceptable if Scarlet turns out to not have been in control for a long time.

It might even fix her backstory…finally.

I’ve been waiting for them to bring in Lazarus, but it seems unlikely seeing how much they are building completely new lore and ignoring the old.

Maybe it’s not connected to anything already shown, but I hope that it might be Kormir going nuts and possessing Sylvari to fight Dragons. She is Goddess of Truth and knowledge is not too far from that department. Additionally previous keeper of that mantle also went crazy(Abbadon). It don’t have sense to posses Sylvari instead of Humans but it’s just my 5 cents into discussion.

sAdam.5876:

Maybe it’s not connected to anything already shown, but I hope that it might be Kormir going nuts and possessing Sylvari to fight Dragons. She is Goddess of Truth and knowledge is not too far from that department. Additionally previous keeper of that mantle also went crazy(Abbadon). It don’t have sense to posses Sylvari instead of Humans but it’s just my 5 cents into discussion.

Abbadon was the God of Water and Secrets. He did not go “crazy”. He rebelled against the other Gods over the Bloodstones and the dilution of Magic.

Abbadon was NOT the God of Truth. Kormir became that. A “gift” from the 5 Gods.

Don’t expect a Tyrian God, in any form, in GW2 stories now. They have been rewritten to minor figureheads of a mistaken Human only belief system, and the well established GW lore of magic apparently just as mistaken and thrown out.

Abbadon started as God of Truth as well. As I told, it’s nearly impossible, but I like the idea.

sAdam.5876:

Abbadon started as God of Truth as well. As I told, it’s nearly impossible, but I like the idea.

I’m curious as to where you got that info. Personally I’ve never come across anything that states that he was the God of Truth. I know he was the God of Secrets.

To tell you the truth I was sure, that was stated on wiki but now I looked for it and there is no such mention. Maybe I was wrong.