Guild Wars 2

She shows up at the Summit for The Dragon’s Reach, Part 2 unannounced, not saying a word.

A major beasty shows up and nearly kills the Pale Tree, and Caithe, one of the best fighters in Tyria who has fought against dragons before and who is also a Firstborn…

does nothing.

She does nothing to protect the Pale Tree, nothing to help you.

After the fight is over, she’s nowhere to be seen.

There is obvious, can’t-miss dialogue about how the dragon minion’s actions seemed too well-timed as though it had been informed in advance of when and where to strike.

From the Aetherpath dungeon we know that Scarlet claimed to know a dark secret about Caithe that even Faolin didn’t know, and Caithe seemed ready to rip her head off for teasing about it. She never got the chance and we never learned any more about it, leaving that as a very glimmering loose thread.

From the player’s personal story as a sylvari, you fight this exact same model of dragon creature in your new character tutorial. Caithe is your mentor/guide in this, and she’s there with you when you fight it. During this, she never names it other than to call it “Something” and “the poison,” as in: “Something is poisoning the dream,” and, “…the poison is at its strongest in the clearing beyond.” This creature is called “The Shadow of the Dragon,” but it doesn’t say which dragon.

Caithe does help you fight it, and says, “Destroy the nightmare before it takes root,” Also the smaller mobs are “Sinister Nightmare Hounds.”

Later in your personal story as a sylvari, Zhaitan is mentioned but not specifically named as the cause of the creature you fought in the dream. I don’t know if a little bait-and-switch could really be happening this early in the life of the game and in the story, but it’s possible. It would mean that ArenaNet knew exactly where the big story was going all along, and of course, why wouldn’t they?

If you choose the White Stag as your dream vision as a sylvari, Caithe displays some rather ruthless behavior that would give anyone pause, but doubly so in light of later events. You have, with her help, captured a member of the Nightmare Court and convince her you’ll free her in exchange for information. It’s obvious by your character’s dialogue and behavior that your character intends to uphold their end of the bargain.

Caithe has other plans, however, and kills the captured Courtier after you get what you want from her, claiming what she did was merciful compared to how she’d have been treated by the Nightmare Court after they found out she gave you information. It’s pretty cold-blooded.

There may be other examples of this kind of behavior from Caithe, but I haven’t played enough sylvari personal stories to have seen it.

Caithe mentors you in your fight Zhaitan indirectly over the course of your personal story, and she (along with Destiny’s Edge) fought against Kralkatorrik. The only elder dragons named for us at that time in the personal story are Zhaitan, Primordus, Jormag, and Krakatorrik. This is also during a sylvari personal story quest. Moredremoth isn’t named or mentioned.

I don’t believe that ArenaNet would just suddenly, two years later, decide: “Hey, let’s throw Mordy out there and see what happens!” No. This was all planned from the beginning.

So…

This could mean one of two things.

1. Caithe was influenced by Mordremoth from the beginning (formation of Destiny’s Edge), for the purposes of defeating the other elder dragons in order to provide more magic/strength to Mordremoth. The secret Scarlet knows about Caithe is that Caithe is also influenced by Mordremoth, just as she was.

2. Caithe wasn’t influenced by Mordremoth at first, but she is now. After the failure of Destiny’s Edge, the rise in prominence of Trahearne over her, and the loss of Faolin, Caithe was in despair. An easy target for a whispering voice to manipulate with promises of power and redemption.

Now, there are two things that I can see that really stand in the way of these speculations:

1. ArenaNet are obvious with what they want you to pay attention to, and no attention was brought upon Caithe during the Dragon’s Reach, Part 2 episode.

2. ArenaNet have not had a significant, plot-twisting betrayal by a major character. It just doesn’t seem to be something they do, and if they did, it would be obviously telegraphed (like how we know unmistakably that something is up with Countess Anise and Canach).

This would mean the most likely explanation is simply that Caithe is just not a major actor in this episode because other characters have the spotlight and there’s only so much room in the spotlight.

Because all the attention was brought to Countess Anise and not Caithe, it’s no wonder everyone’s wondering about Anise.

But it’s still fun to think about. And if anyone from ArenaNet is reading this: a little more subtlety and gasp-worthy betrayals might not be such a bad thing!

“She shows up at the Summit for The Dragon’s Reach, Part 2 unannounced, not saying a word. "
According to the wiki we can talk to her during the procession. Due to this “Caithe, one of the best fighters in Tyria who has fought against dragons before and who is also a Firstborn…” I don´t deem her appearance at the summit very surprising.

“A major beasty shows up and nearly kills the Pale Tree, and Caithe, one of the best fighters in Tyria who has fought against dragons before and who is also a Firstborn…

does nothing.

She does nothing to protect the Pale Tree, nothing to help you."

It’s been a while since I did that instance but if I remember correctly she stood near the avatar of the pale tree and defended her against a mordrem wolf.

“After the fight is over, she’s nowhere to be seen.”
I don’t know if it was something said in game or only on the forum but I remember reading that she checked upon the roots of the pale tree after the fight.

biggs.4702:

She shows up at the Summit for The Dragon’s Reach, Part 2 unannounced, not saying a word.

You can talk to her at the beginning. She doesn’t say anything during the actual meeting, but neither do the biconics. Trahearne, like Caithe, doesn’t have voiced lines.

biggs.4702:

A major beasty shows up and nearly kills the Pale Tree, and Caithe, one of the best fighters in Tyria who has fought against dragons before and who is also a Firstborn…

does nothing.

She does nothing to protect the Pale Tree, nothing to help you.

Caithe and Trahearne both equally fight the Mordrem. However, where Trahearne is planted in the ground and only attacks those near the Pale Tree, Caithe moves around attacking the closest Mordrem. When all Mordrem are killed, she and Trahearne leave as the final national leader leaves.

biggs.4702:

After the fight is over, she’s nowhere to be seen.

Which can be explained by many things. Tracking the Mordrem’s retreat to see where they’re going, cleaning up any Mordrem on lower levels (the Pale Tree says they gnaw at her roots so there’s clearly some down below that we never see), or investigating how they got to the Pale Tree so easily.

There are more explanations than “she’s suspicious!!!!”

biggs.4702:

This creature is called “The Shadow of the Dragon,” but it doesn’t say which dragon.

Angel McCoy recently explained that the Shadow of the Dragon we fought in the tutorial is, in fact, the shadow of the Shadow of the Dragon (the champion of Mordremoth). As ridiculous as it may sound…

“The Shadow of the Dragon is definitely one of Mordremoth’s lieutenants. It is a plant creature and quite evil. When you see it in the Dream, however, you’re seeing some sort of magical reflection. You fight it there, but it’s not the actual creature in the Dream. This doesn’t mean it’s any less dangerous there.”

biggs.4702:

If you choose the White Stag as your dream vision as a sylvari, Caithe displays some rather ruthless behavior that would give anyone pause, but doubly so in light of later events. -snip a bit-

There may be other examples of this kind of behavior from Caithe, but I haven’t played enough sylvari personal stories to have seen it.

Caithe’s ruthlessness is limited to just the Nightmare Court (and dragon minions), and this is tied in – and explained in depth during Twilight Arbor story – to how Faolain is her lover and Caithe lost Faolain to the Nightmare. She despises the Nightmare and the Nightmare Court immensely for taking her love from her. She shows even more hatred towards Cadeyrn in TA story. This ruthlessness is shown in other storylines as well with Caithe and the Nightmare Court, though it’s most evident in White Stag – Shield of the Moon emphasizes more of Caithe’s sympathizing with Tiachern over losing a love to the Nightmare Court, though.

Caithe is adamant about the belief – which Tiachern can confirm if you aid him instead of aiding Caithe during the Shield of the Moon storyline – that the Nightmare Court cannot return to how they once were, before being tainted by the Nightmare. This is why she’s so ruthless to them alongside her losing her love to them. Not only did the Nightmare Court corrupt her lover, but they themselves are irredeemable – not as morals go, but as a matter of fact. You may imprison and interrogate, but you cannot save them. Killing may sound cold-blooded, but knowing that they’re little better than sentient dragon minions… it’s rather not.

biggs.4702:

1. Caithe was influenced by Mordremoth from the beginning (formation of Destiny’s Edge), for the purposes of defeating the other elder dragons in order to provide more magic/strength to Mordremoth. The secret Scarlet knows about Caithe is that Caithe is also influenced by Mordremoth, just as she was.

2. Caithe wasn’t influenced by Mordremoth at first, but she is now. After the failure of Destiny’s Edge, the rise in prominence of Trahearne over her, and the loss of Faolin, Caithe was in despair. An easy target for a whispering voice to manipulate with promises of power and redemption.

There’s a heavy implication that the Nightmare is caused by Mordremoth. If so, she would hate Mordremoth more than anything in the world. That is not something you’d fall to.

Furthermore, her dialogue during the World Summit, though sparse, doesn’t hold the same kind of mentality as Ceara or Aerin, while all dragon minions tend to hold shared personality traits that are rather obvious, which hinders the thought that Caithe is corrupted.

Caithe didn’t really fall into despair anyways, she would have if not for our PCs as we see during A Light in the Darkness, but the actions of Twilight Arbor story mode is us helping Caithe out of her little dark corner. She remained healthier than ever for the rest of the dungeon storyline and even so in Aetherpath.

Caithe’s hatred towards Scarlet seems to be irrelevant to the secret. Not many people seem to pay attention to talking to NPCs during dungeons, but if you do so with Caithe then she’ll talk about how the two never got along while Scarlet remained in the Grove. There’s an old rivalry amongst them in the first place, and Scarlet taunting her with a supposed secret only pushed her buttons.

I think we can expect Caithe to be involved somewhere as all the dialogue in TA Aetherblade needs to have a conclusion. However I don’t think we can assume anything from events not happening in the story. An awful lot of things are just not covered in the story. We could suspect Trahearne for not assigning Pact airships to patrol near the Pale Tree. We could suspect the Lionguard because they were not at the meeting. And so on.

Yeh, I don’t find it super likely. Possible I guess. There’s a lot of major characters who don’t have a big part during this scene. Anet has chose to make their new younger group the stars. Maybe test better with the core demographic or something, I don’t know. : P

It still is interesting about Caithe’s secret though. Hopefully we find out more soon!

I didn’t notice Caithe there and fighting, but you guys clearly do, so I’m sure my memory is faulty.

There’s a lot of NPCs moving about so it’s hard to note, but if you go through it you’ll clearly see all sylvari fighting independently – except where Caithe and Trahearne leave, the generic wardens die.

how awesome could it be if caithe as a member of destiny edge, slayer of dragons was only doing her masters will because mordy wants no competion eating magic in tyria. :P

Clearly Mordremoth has Parasite researched.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

how awesome could it be if caithe as a member of destiny edge, slayer of dragons was only doing her masters will because mordy wants no competion eating magic in tyria. :P

Awesome, in the sense that Saturday morning children’s cartoons are awesome.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

how awesome could it be if caithe as a member of destiny edge, slayer of dragons was only doing her masters will because mordy wants no competion eating magic in tyria. :P

Incredibly predictable – as everyone’s thought of it obviously – and cliche, not to mention makes little to no sense for Caithe since she hates the dragons and the Nightmare (and it would make less sense if the constant ties between Nightmare and Mordremoth become true).

If such becomes the case – or sylvari being Mordremoth’s minions become true – then this game has about as much continuity and sense as Gintama. Read: little to none.

I think the most likely thing with Caithe is that she and her lover discovered the existence of the dragon while exploring Tyria. That’s the secret Caithe has. She has already come face to face with the existence of Mordremoth. Caithe turned away from its whispers. Faolain did not.

There are hints here. Caithe’s views on nightmare courtiers. Scarlet’s comments on understanding the deal with Faolain and Caithe in ‘What Scarlet saw’.

As for why she didn’t tell us about Mordremoth, the same question can be asked on why the Pale Tree was silent for so long. The obvious answer is that they are both afraid of what the impact the knowledge of the Dragon and how it corrupts Sylvari will have once its known publically, both on the Sylvari themselves and on how the other races treat them.

My guess is that both acknowledged the entity which is behind the nightmare. While Faolain accepted it and saw how her race the sylvari are turned away from their true origins, she decided to stay and help. Faolain had everytime question while Caithe was searching for answers. Caithe searched further and wanted to know why the entity is trapped where it is and got two possible answers:

a) the entity is the same as the dream. The dream is a disguise for it to achieve it’s targets (which are connected to dragon hunting). This would effectively mean that dream and nightmare have the same source (and it doesn’t need to be a dragon). The Pale Tree can use the nightmare to keep the attention on the task or hold it’s people together while both sides are working for it.

b) the entity is fought by the dream. It’s older and very powerful. The dream(‘s hidden entity) slowly drains it’s magic to convert the nightmare into the dream. This would mean that there are two entities fighting (and none has to be a dragon).

There is no return from the nightmare, because the nightmare is a hidden truth and everyone who was able to see behind the veil is unable to forget what he saw.

With Faolain at the nightmare court, the Pale Tree has basically the influence on both sides.

Caithe decided to stay with the Pale Tree ( for a it’s pointless to switch sides or b she decided for the better one) to have an easier time to work with what she knows.

Scarlet giggled as she raised her hand to her face and watched the red thorn vine chase itself between her fingers. “So much makes sense now. The Pale Tree, the Nightmare Court, Caithe and Faolain…it’s all part of a grand design.

“But I see the flaws in that design. My people don’t have to take what we’re given, or be what we were “born to be.” No people do. We can change the rules…well, I can. And I’m going to.”

…

“I’ve learned so much,” Scarlet continued. “Now I have to put that knowledge to use. An insurmountable challenge is rising, and my people have been called to meet it. We are compelled by our creator to do so.

“But I reject that call. I reject the notion that that I must choose the Dream or be lost to Nightmare. The forces that push us this way or that can be redirected. They can be set against one another to the detriment of both, and now I know how.”

Horst Hortensie.5420:

“But I reject that call. I reject the notion that that I must choose the Dream or be lost to Nightmare. The forces that push us this way or that can be redirected. They can be set against one another to the detriment of both, and now I know how.”

It makes little sense to me that both the Nightmare court and Scarlet (who rejected that path) are minions of Mordremoth. If Scarlet is working to the detriment of the Court, it implies that either Scarlet, or the Court, were not / are not Dragon minions.

That is, assuming that logic has anything to do with it.

My guess is its something about the nature of the nightmare. Also a certain dev mention offhand “If the dream is the body of knowledge of the sylvari, I wonder how different the firstborn must have been when they awoke, what did they know?” That’s not an exact quote and it might not be close but you get the idea.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

My guess is that both acknowledged the entity which is behind the nightmare. While Faolain accepted it and saw how her race the sylvari are turned away from their true origins, she decided to stay and help.

Fun fact: Faolain not once mentions the Nightmare as the “true path” of the sylvari race.

It was Cadeyrn who founded the Court – before falling to Nightmare – to seek the true path of the sylvari. Which was really just “do the opposite of the Ventari Tablet, for we are not centaur or human so we shouldn’t listen to what they say and the Pale Tree won’t listen to me so I’ll make her listen to me!” The courtiers that followed and fell to Nightmare do openly preach the same thing, but again rather than following their words of things like:

“The Dream is many things. It is light and dark, love and anger, good and evil. So are we.”

or

“The court doesn’t seek to destroy either the sylvari or the Pale Tree. We’re trying to free you from the influence of Ventari’s Tablet.”

they, like Cadeyrn, simply do the opposite of the Ventari Tablet – the opposite of the Dream, the Nightmare. They don’t follow the “true path of the sylvari”, they follow “the opposite of the Tablet.”

Faolain, however, never preaches any of this. She fell to Nightmare and embraced it, and all we see her talking about is that Caithe specifically belongs by her side, in the Nightmare Court. Faolain herself never mentions a care about bringing the Pale Tree to Nightmare, or spreading the Nightmare. She merely seeks to bring Caithe into Nightmare.

Her followers, however, preach the same thing the rest of the court does.

As to the rest of your post: The Pale Tree confirms to sylvari players during Rallying Call that the entity in Scarlet’s mind was Mordremoth.

In all fairness, we’ve only ever seen Faolain talking to Caithe (or to Caithe’s current companions about Caithe, or as a Dream reflection of Caithe’s inner conflict regarding Faolain). So of course, if she has an agenda and is talking to the subject of that agenda, it’s going to revolve around that particular agenda. None of that means that it’s her only goal or interest, though, just the only one we’ve ever had an opportunity to learn about.

Wanderer.3248:

It makes little sense to me that both the Nightmare court and Scarlet (who rejected that path) are minions of Mordremoth. If Scarlet is working to the detriment of the Court, it implies that either Scarlet, or the Court, were not / are not Dragon minions.

That is, assuming that logic has anything to do with it.

I don’t believe the Pale Tree anymore. It’s up to something that we shouldn’t know. And the Pale Tree is the only creature that confirmed the corruption of Scarlet. With actual state of information, we can say that only the soundless can get corrupted. The nightmare court hasn’t even shown up in the actual releases. We see some creatures which usually go along with the court, but no sylvari member of the court. Nightmare != Mordremoth

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Fun fact: Faolain not once mentions the Nightmare as the “true path” of the sylvari race.

Sure, but the seeds Ronan found were guarded by terrible plant creatures. The seed has an origin which we don’t know and was influenced from the moment Ronan got it. Faolain doesn’t mention it, but with the fact that the nightmare is older than the dream or the sylari are a new race on Tyria, it is possible that through the Pale Tree, the nightmare is captured and slowly transformed into the dream (not knowing if there is somebody who can be named to gather/loose this power).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

“The Dream is many things. It is light and dark, love and anger, good and evil. So are we.”

or

“The court doesn’t seek to destroy either the sylvari or the Pale Tree. We’re trying to free you from the influence of Ventari’s Tablet.”

Those quotes basically support the two sides of one medal. The dream and the nightmare do not really differ, except there is a pseudo rule set which is probably written on an enchanted stone to underline the nice side of the sylvari while it isn’t more than a religious codec which can get free interpretations (insert random enemy of choice and re-interpet). Taunting them with basically pointless rules.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Faolain, however, never preaches any of this. She fell to Nightmare and embraced it, and all we see her talking about is that Caithe specifically belongs by her side, in the Nightmare Court. Faolain herself never mentions a care about bringing the Pale Tree to Nightmare, or spreading the Nightmare. She merely seeks to bring Caithe into Nightmare.

Faolain showed everytime more emotions like Caithe. There are even more nightmare courtiers who embrace it, but they look into the same world with the same eyes and see the nightmare at the same places where we see something else. The Pale Tree cannot get turned to nightmare, either it’s the complete opposite of it or the dream is the nightmare in disguise.

I don’t agree with any part of the Caithe is a traitor theory. If there is a traitor, it is Kasmeer. It’s only a matter of time before the effects of the Nightmare Tower comes to the surface.

It could be something like the nightmare is not mordremoth, but corruption by a subordinate. When Mordremoth corrupts, it doesn’t seem to “change” the sylvari, they just get kind of mad(hatter, not angry) and violent.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

In all fairness, we’ve only ever seen Faolain talking to Caithe (or to Caithe’s current companions about Caithe, or as a Dream reflection of Caithe’s inner conflict regarding Faolain). So of course, if she has an agenda and is talking to the subject of that agenda, it’s going to revolve around that particular agenda. None of that means that it’s her only goal or interest, though, just the only one we’ve ever had an opportunity to learn about.

While true, even high ranked members preach about the greatness of the Nightmare in front of their lovers – Ysvelta for example.

But aside from growing the Nightmare Tree – for unknown purpose – we don’t really ever see Faolain doing anything but trying to pull Caithe into Nightmare, unlike other Nightmare Courtiers.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Sure, but the seeds Ronan found were guarded by terrible plant creatures. The seed has an origin which we don’t know and was influenced from the moment Ronan got it. Faolain doesn’t mention it, but with the fact that the nightmare is older than the dream or the sylari are a new race on Tyria, it is possible that through the Pale Tree, the nightmare is captured and slowly transformed into the dream (not knowing if there is somebody who can be named to gather/loose this power).

Whomever said that the Nightmare is older than the Dream?

And there were plenty of “terrible” plant creatures throughout the Maguuma in GW1. It was a jungle well known for man-eating plants, after all. Both mobile and not.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Those quotes basically support the two sides of one medal. The dream and the nightmare do not really differ, except there is a pseudo rule set which is probably written on an enchanted stone to underline the nice side of the sylvari while it isn’t more than a religious codec which can get free interpretations (insert random enemy of choice and re-interpet). Taunting them with basically pointless rules.

Right, that’s what those lines proclaim.

But the Court never goes about doing those quotes. In other words, the Courtiers saying those things are downright liars.

And the Ventari Tablet isn’t enchanted.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Faolain showed everytime more emotions like Caithe. There are even more nightmare courtiers who embrace it, but they look into the same world with the same eyes and see the nightmare at the same places where we see something else. The Pale Tree cannot get turned to nightmare, either it’s the complete opposite of it or the dream is the nightmare in disguise.

I… honestly don’t get anything you were saying in this.

for any that play the story when the pale tree send you in to the Future
and you saw the vision of Caithe and Faolain she wil do every thing to get back to Faolain even joining the nightmare

later ad twilight she talks different
but in my few caithe is a double edge sword she good and evil

also her special attack of Caithe is sneak behind some 1 back and stab him
very evil :p

i think Caithe is in a struggle atm Mother tree try to make caithe good
when Faolain make her evil

am sure we see much more of caith what path she gone walk

That isn’t a vision of THE future. It was a vision of a possible future. A future where the Pact failed, DE still hates one another, and Zhaitan and the other Elder Dragons were probably going to kill everyone. That Caithe joined Faolain because that all she really had left at that point. It might have been a monster wearing her ex-lover’s face, but at least it was something I guess.

All of it is kinda a moot point now, since we know that future, in that form anyway, isn’t going to come to pass. With the player’s actions, and the magical powers of friendship yada yada, Caithe has a reason to live on and continue fighting the good fight.

It was less that “the Pact failed” and more that it wasn’t as backed as it was. It didn’t show victory or defeat for the Pact. With DE, it showed what would happen without the PC’s involvement in the dungeons.

Though, level wise, and letter wise, TA had happened (this is likely an oversight though). So Caithe would have given up hope and fall to the Nightmare in her depression if we didn’t help settle differences at the various dungeons.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

biggs.4702:

She shows up at the Summit for The Dragon’s Reach, Part 2 unannounced, not saying a word.

You can talk to her at the beginning. She doesn’t say anything during the actual meeting, but neither do the biconics. Trahearne, like Caithe, doesn’t have voiced lines.

biggs.4702:

A major beasty shows up and nearly kills the Pale Tree, and Caithe, one of the best fighters in Tyria who has fought against dragons before and who is also a Firstborn…

does nothing.

She does nothing to protect the Pale Tree, nothing to help you.

Caithe and Trahearne both equally fight the Mordrem. However, where Trahearne is planted in the ground and only attacks those near the Pale Tree, Caithe moves around attacking the closest Mordrem. When all Mordrem are killed, she and Trahearne leave as the final national leader leaves.

biggs.4702:

After the fight is over, she’s nowhere to be seen.

Which can be explained by many things. Tracking the Mordrem’s retreat to see where they’re going, cleaning up any Mordrem on lower levels (the Pale Tree says they gnaw at her roots so there’s clearly some down below that we never see), or investigating how they got to the Pale Tree so easily.

There are more explanations than “she’s suspicious!!!!”

biggs.4702:

This creature is called “The Shadow of the Dragon,” but it doesn’t say which dragon.

Angel McCoy recently explained that the Shadow of the Dragon we fought in the tutorial is, in fact, the shadow of the Shadow of the Dragon (the champion of Mordremoth). As ridiculous as it may sound…

“The Shadow of the Dragon is definitely one of Mordremoth’s lieutenants. It is a plant creature and quite evil. When you see it in the Dream, however, you’re seeing some sort of magical reflection. You fight it there, but it’s not the actual creature in the Dream. This doesn’t mean it’s any less dangerous there.”

biggs.4702:

If you choose the White Stag as your dream vision as a sylvari, Caithe displays some rather ruthless behavior that would give anyone pause, but doubly so in light of later events. -snip a bit-

There may be other examples of this kind of behavior from Caithe, but I haven’t played enough sylvari personal stories to have seen it.

Caithe’s ruthlessness is limited to just the Nightmare Court (and dragon minions), and this is tied in – and explained in depth during Twilight Arbor story – to how Faolain is her lover and Caithe lost Faolain to the Nightmare. She despises the Nightmare and the Nightmare Court immensely for taking her love from her. She shows even more hatred towards Cadeyrn in TA story. This ruthlessness is shown in other storylines as well with Caithe and the Nightmare Court, though it’s most evident in White Stag – Shield of the Moon emphasizes more of Caithe’s sympathizing with Tiachern over losing a love to the Nightmare Court, though.

Caithe is adamant about the belief – which Tiachern can confirm if you aid him instead of aiding Caithe during the Shield of the Moon storyline – that the Nightmare Court cannot return to how they once were, before being tainted by the Nightmare. This is why she’s so ruthless to them alongside her losing her love to them. Not only did the Nightmare Court corrupt her lover, but they themselves are irredeemable – not as morals go, but as a matter of fact. You may imprison and interrogate, but you cannot save them. Killing may sound cold-blooded, but knowing that they’re little better than sentient dragon minions… it’s rather not.

Caithe’s feelings about the Nightmare Court are more complex than just that. She considers herself to be at least partly responsible for its creation. Her interactions with Cadeyrn failed to appreciate what he was going through and her mishandling of the situation resulted in him going down the path he took. She believes had she interacted with him differently, the Nightmare Court never would have formed and not only would the sylvari race be free from their blight, but Faolain would never have fallen to Nightmare (whether or not the Nightmare Court was inevitable in some form or another is debatable). For all the good reasons any sylvari has to dislike the Nightmare Court, even those who have lost loved ones to it like Caithe, Caithe still has more complexity to her relationship with them.

This is something I’ve thought about a lot:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Question-regarding-Shadow-of-the-Dragon/4322098

“astly, I’ll note that the Dream’s pool of knowledge began to form before sylvari were first awakened. If this weren’t true, then the Firstborn would have come into the world extremely innocent and vulnerable.” … “It’s interesting to ponder what the Firstborns must have been like when they first awakened, relative to what new sylvari are like now.”

Well, these are the Firstborn: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Firstborn

They’re either great scholars, heroes, or decide to corrupt the sylvari and bend the race to their own opinion of what they should be doing. : P

Shiren.9532:

She believes had she interacted with him differently, the Nightmare Court never would have formed and not only would the sylvari race be free from their blight, but Faolain would never have fallen to Nightmare (whether or not the Nightmare Court was inevitable in some form or another is debatable).

Even without Cadeyrn forming the court, Faolain (and Caithe) would still have encountered “a darkness”, so it’s possible that Faolain would have founded the court, or something like it, anyway.

Edit: I imagine that the nightmare court is as inevitable as the winter court on which it is based; as inevitable as winter itself.

While it’s clear that Caithe blames herself, it’s also implied in the stories that both Caderyn and Faolain chose their own paths, and have no one to blame but themselves.

Don’t look for the ones who stand in the shadow, look for the one who baths in light

Wanderer.3248:

Shiren.9532:

She believes had she interacted with him differently, the Nightmare Court never would have formed and not only would the sylvari race be free from their blight, but Faolain would never have fallen to Nightmare (whether or not the Nightmare Court was inevitable in some form or another is debatable).

Even without Cadeyrn forming the court, Faolain (and Caithe) would still have encountered “a darkness”, so it’s possible that Faolain would have founded the court, or something like it, anyway.

Edit: I imagine that the nightmare court is as inevitable as the winter court on which it is based; as inevitable as winter itself.

While it’s clear that Caithe blames herself, it’s also implied in the stories that both Caderyn and Faolain chose their own paths, and have no one to blame but themselves.

That Darkness was encountered at Orr…. That means either the Shadow of the Dragon was paying a visit to Orr and corrupted her or Zhaitan turned Faolain into a Risen yet couldn’t make her his minion due to the Pale Tree’s protection…

Protection that likely turned into kill the corrupted Sylvari so that the Pale Tree wouldn’t have to deal with a repeat of Faolain….