Guild Wars 2

I am hoping that I will get an official mod to answer this question for me.

It has been to much debate how old the firstborn really are. Official pages say that they’re 25 years old. However, the wiki is claiming them to be 23 due to the books saying they sprouted in 1302.

One player says: The timeline – and only official one we have – from the novels Ghosts of Ascalon and Edge of Destiny, outright states that 1302 AE is the date in which “The sylvari first appear along the Tarnished Coast, sprouting from the Pale Tree.” – wording directly from the novels, and transcribed verbatim on Timeline. Until you get a line stating “the sylvari were born in 1300 AE” all mentions of “25 years ago” is estimation that is a beyond common-place thing for ArenaNet

The argument: More recent things than books clearly state 25 years. The official page being one of the most important things – the official page being written by the ArenaNet and their lore team. It clearly states 25 years, not “estimated 25 years ago.” Due to official lore stating that they’re 25 years old, would it not be logical to say they awakened 25 years ago but did not start making appearances until 1302? I’m sorry, but saying they awakened in 1302 breaks every official thing they’ve said about Sylvari pre-release till now.
ANets Blog – By Ree Soesbee August 12th, 2011 “Twenty-five years ago, the first sylvari awakened.”
This is new information, and in my own opinion – and many other Sylvari players opinion – is more correct. Furthermore, ‘sprouting’ can be a term used for ‘departing.’ In no way does that line say “awakening from the pale tree,” which is what official lore says, that they awakened 25 years ago (that being 1300). To be quite frank, I think they would have said in their blogs about the race that they were 23 if they were 23, but they didn’t, they’re 25.

Debate to that:
25 years ago can mean from 23-27 years ago imo, an exact date is much better. Provide to me ONE source which states “1300 AE” and not just “25 years ago.” Look at the dates for when GW2 takes place – 1325 AE. However, it’s said to be 250 years after: The Searing, the Cataclysm, Nightfall, Eye of the North, and the Foefire. Respectively, those dates were 1070, 1071, 1075, 1078, and 1090 – that is to say, 255, 254, 250, 247, and 235 years prior to GW2’s year.

Furthermore, considering that the sylvari are plants, I doubt “sprouting” would be used metaphorically and in this case would use the same meaning as one would use the term for plants – sprouting from the ground. Or, in this case, birth. Given the fact that ArenaNet almost always over generalizes when using “x years ago” in their phrases (that is to say, never being to the exact year), regardless of how often the phrase is used, it is not a reliable phrase. Your “sylvari players” who view that to be more correct clearly don’t realize how general Anet’s terminology typically is, especially in this phrasing. You’ll be hard pressed to ever find Anet use the phrase “23 years ago” or similar ones (e.g., “255 years ago” “234 years ago” etc.). For one example, see Ghosts of Ascalon – “250 years ago, Ascalon burned…” – this is in reference to the Foefire, and the time of the book was 1324 AE – the Foefire, as said, happened in 1090 AE. That is to say, 234 years prior to the book is when “Ascalon burned.” Take a look at any – any – case where ArenaNet uses the phrase “# years ago” and you will never find a number that doesn’t end in 5 or 0 so long as it’s more than 10 (in fact, probably so long as it’s more than 5).

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The truth is, only the “official” guild wars 2 wiki is claiming them to be 23. Meanwhile, official blogs and posts say that they’re 25 years old.

I’m looking for a solid answer here; as an RPer and someone who cares a very large amount about lore, it would be nice to know the truth.

Now please please play nice here. I’m not looking for arguments or fights. I’m just looking for an answer.

References for 25 years old:
Official Page: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/sylvari/
Dream & Nightmare: http://www.arena.net/blog/dream-and-nightmare
GW2RPers wiki: http://guildwars2roleplay.wikispaces.com/A+Comprehensive+Guide+to+All+Things+Sylvari
Introduction Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxuKkCkQbI
Interview: http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/

I’d guess “25” is a convenient estimation. A nice easy number to work with but 23 is the actual number.

or, 23 years ago they first “APPEARED” along the tarnished coast. Sprouting from the pale tree. meaning there may have been a couple of years that no one knew about them.

Dustfinger.9510:

23 years ago they first “APPEARED” along the tarnished coast. Sprouting from the pale tree. meaning there may have been a couple of years that no one knew about them.

This is what I would rather accept / believe. There’s so much official posts that say 25 years old – including the very introduction cinematic to a Sylvari character. It’s why I am hoping a mod can confirm / deny the age v.v;

As i think about it, I’m inclined to agree with you. They do seem to be pushing that 25 pretty hard.

I’m going with “appeared” = first noticed. The second line of the intro video at least lets us know that the Sylvari think it’s 25 years ago.

Unless you’re trying to rp a first/secondborn Sylvari, one or two years difference there is likely not going to hurt the rp or lore for you much though. Compared to WoW lore, only being off by a year or two is pretty solid.

It hurts lore a lot actually, seeing the second born were awakened 6-7 years later. You can’t RP a 1st born, but 2nd born are available to RP and it does affect their age.

By a year or two? You’d be fine.

Ba air.1372:

By a year or two? You’d be fine.

Mint Rain.6798:

It hurts lore a lot actually, seeing the second born were awakened 6-7 years later. You can’t RP a 1st born, but 2nd born are available to RP and it does affect their age.

It doesn’t matter if it “would be fine.” What matters is that the information is correct. Many people want to play their Sylvari characters properly – I get asked questions on a daily basis. Age is something that matters to people, and in the long run, it also affects when RPers can say their character went into Nightmare, etc (seeing that was roughly established 5 years after the second born, which were 6-7 years after).

People constantly use the “official,” wiki for information, the information there should be correct. If the Sylvari age is legitly 25 years old – then the wiki is wrong and needs to be corrected. This is what I’m trying to solve.

To ‘appear’ and to be ‘born’ doesn’t mean the same, but whoever wrote the official wiki entry apparently assumed it does.

If you want it corrected, I would think you best message the Wiki team. If nothing else, they may at least get feedback from Ree on this.

I would like to point out that when you start the game our character is born, which means your character, itself, is born in the year 1325.

Ten.8421:

To ‘appear’ and to be ‘born’ doesn’t mean the same, but whoever wrote the official wiki entry apparently assumed it does.

If you want it corrected, I would think you best message the Wiki team. If nothing else, they may at least get feedback from Ree on this.

There is someone in particular who is sticking to the books exact timeline, instead of all current blog posts and in game information. He believes himself to be correct. You can view the age discussion on the wiki under the discussion tab. I very much agree appear and born are two different things.

However, he’s part of the wiki, and even if the wiki “team,” did edit it, it’s likely it would only be edited again.

Narcemus.1348:

I would like to point out that when you start the game our character is born, which means your character, itself, is born in the year 1325.

Yes, this is true – but not everyone RPs a sapling (nor do they have to).

So we’ll just pretend that our character just blacked out for 10 or so years after being born…..

But I guess the game story and the RP story don’t have to sync up at all, I mean if you are a nightmare courtier who is breaking into twilight arbor and killing the nightmare court founder…….

Narcemus.1348:

So we’ll just pretend that our character just blacked out for 10 or so years after being born…..

But I guess the game story and the RP story don’t have to sync up at all, I mean if you are a nightmare courtier who is breaking into twilight arbor and killing the nightmare court founder…….

I don’t think you understand how video game roleplaying works.

Some people view character creation and character creation as two different things; one is nothing more than the means to another.

All sylvari characters that are created exist with the same canonical game story. When a sylvari goes through character creation, the player is creating a canonical, ArenaNet, lore-specific character who is on a Wyld Hunt to go fight Zhaitan.

However, some people enjoy playing their characters in a non-canonical manner. This doesn’t mean that they ignore the lore, but rather that they ignore the preset limitations the game imposes upon characters. Some people want to play as simple farmers — why would they bother with armor and guns if they’re supposed to be tending fields?

Canon and non-canon are both things that exist and are both things that are used for roleplay. If everyone played a strictly canonical character it simply would not work. It’s stated several times in the personal story that Caithe and the player character are the only sylvari to have had dreams of the dragon. If we have a room filled with 99 sylvari player characters and Caithe, and if we follow the lore strictly and specifically, then the lore breaks and we can’t roleplay because suddenly Caithe explodes due to the paradox. “There are only two sylvari who have had this dream.” “There are one hundred sylvari in the room who have had this dream.” Caithe explodes, Tyria melts, etc

Yeah you’re right though it’s better for us to never ever break canon under any circumstances.

Exactly, I’m glad you understand