Hate is Fuel.
Sylvari an argument for the best race?
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Annnd now we’re throwing in Ad Hominems on top of Strawmans. Man, I want to meet whomever taught you how to debate.
I want to know the precise moment to thought it was okay to overuse the same word. I’d ask you the same but I know nobody taught you much of anything.
You, are the one that keeps derailing, not anyone else.
Ironically, you do realize this is a derail itself? Is that an attack on my grammar? It appears you have used the object pronoun “whomever” in a subjective position. Should be “whoever”. Nearly all of your posts have been off topic and request that I explain your off-topic rants to you, this is also the second time you predicted this topic is going to be locked. Maybe if you keep posting it will be locked. Often what you accuse me of is something that you do in the very same post. I’d like to continue on topic but you won’t permit that, you’re kitten, you were politely asked to make your own topic, instead of randomly chiming in very incoherently and always off topic.
After reading most of this thread, I can say its not worth the time speaking to Aden, he’s bent on believing his hypothesis even if proof or solid arguments is showed to his face, and you can’t discuss with closed minds like his, let him continue believing his stuff, I myself feel somehow insulted the way he ignores most of what is shown to him, being info known to most of the community since a long time.
Let this thread die in silence, do not let it keep going.
Do not even bother answering me Aden for I won’t enter this thread of yours again.
After reading most of this thread, I can say its not worth the time speaking to Aden, he’s bent on believing his hypothesis even if proof or solid arguments is showed to his face, and you can’t discuss with closed minds like his, let him continue believing his stuff, I myself feel somehow insulted the way he ignores most of what is shown to him, being info known to most of the community since a long time.
Let this thread die in silence, do not let it keep going.
Do not even bother answering me Aden for I won’t enter this thread of yours again.
Again, if anything is absolutely clear is there is no stance I’m taking. I believe in nothing, other than my own personal opinion that Sylvari is the “best” engineering race. there is absolutely nothing I’m sticking to, there was no hypothesis concluded, I found out the Dream is missing it’s origin, purpose, and nature. Nothing to conclude for now based on that. There is no fact to be thrown in my face because there is nothing to disprove. I’m thinking there are a few members on here with proxy accounts, not only are my posts misunderstood, they are misunderstood in the exact same way… My opinion is subjective at best, but it is still my own. As far as I know, every theory on here (those that actually shared and contributed) unlike you, could be correct, I made this very, very clear.
Cheap copout as it seems but we just don’t have enough info to stick to anything, let alone my theories. Yet another with the very same reading comprehension quirk…
(edited by Aden Yeshua.2148)
t, I made this very, very clear.
Cheap copout as it seems but we just don’t have enough info to stick to anything, let alone my theories. Yet another with the very same reading comprehension quirk…
… Seriously? ‘Same comprehension quirk?’
No one here has issues with comprehension, contrary to your belief.
We don’t have much to go on, you are right. But what everyone else is right about is your ability to have a respectful discussion on the matter.
In this one thread, you have:
- Falsely claimed that Greyhawk has “always been off topic”. He has posted here 13 times. One was a thread bump, one a mixed response addressing your behaviour and the discussion, four were solely addressing your attitude, and seven were entirely on topic of the discussion. Yet you slam him for derailing this thread when you have thrown veiled insults his way.
- ‘Requesting’ he leave the thread after attempting to call him out for enforcing his views on you (he wasn’t, just pointing out what we know) and claiming that he was speaking for groups of people when he wasn’t. Nowhere in any of his posts did I see that he was speaking for any group of people. There was no speaking for us older players and there was no insult to newcomers. Anywhere. Maybe you need to work on your comprehension there.
- Presenting ideas that support your theory as fact, and when met with the information that we currently know to be factual, you claim they are being hostile, their understanding is incorrect, or are misunderstanding your point.
- And the real thing here that was absolutely uncalled for and unacceptable for any debate/discussion: suggesting that Greyhawk needs a counselor (WTH?) and insinuating that he is unintelligent, or at least below your level of intelligence (and that part I doubt). All anyone else has done in the reverse is defend themselves from your negative presumptions as well as point out the fact that you are making them.
As someone that has been on this forum since it was created, and having played or spoken in-game to a few posters, I can assure that there are no proxy accounts in play here. That said, I would think that, by deduction, it might be the way in which you are trying to present your theory that is flawed and not the “comprehension quirks” of other posters.
In short, I think this thread needs to just be closed. This has hardly been a completely respectful discussion from the first quarter of the front page onward.
~Signe Grimsdottir | Wynne Everheart | Magiere Massing~
The Archivist’s Sanctum [Lore] – Just Us Grown-Ups [JUGS]
The Archivist’s Sanctum [Lore] – Just Us Grown-Ups [JUGS]
I ninja edited before your rant Mathis, I do admit my tone towards Grewhawk has devolved. By your own admission, a debate could be made for 2/3rds of his posts are off topic and directed solely at me. Something that if he was truly interested in addressing he’d just send a PM instead of showboating.
Your ‘requesting’ snippet has contradictory information in the very same paragraph. Your ‘presenting’ paragraph is no longer applicable since I don’t take a stance on any issue on this subject. Your history on this forum is sadly irrelevant to the subject matter.
Then you name it? What do you call someone who says your sticking to your guns and are closed minded when in-fact there is nothing I’m sticking to? At all.
Edit:
No one here has issues with comprehension, contrary to your belief.
Maybe you need to work on your comprehension there.
According to you there is no one, yet you found one, didn’t take much digging…
he wasn’t, just pointing out what we know
and claiming that he was speaking for groups of people when he wasn’t.
You claim he was speaking for what you all know, then proceed to say he was only speaking for himself. This is an opposite statement.
Nowhere in any of his posts did I see that he was speaking for any group of people.
You should have looked harder I didn’t even try and I found numerous posts of him saying “we” referring to more than just himself.
And the real thing here
So the rest isn’t real? I’m confused…
In short, I think this thread needs to just be closed.
So, in addition, you are saying there is a ton of backseat moderators on here too?
(edited by Aden Yeshua.2148)
I’d actually like to thank the people on this thread who took the time to answer the OP, Konig Des Todes, Greyhawk, ShaeMtal, and many others, and point out all the facts. I learned a great deal more about the Sylvari than I knew already since you all laid out the facts and pertinent information so clearly and with a great deal more patience than many people that I know. It can be hard dealing with people who don’t want to learn, and who back out of their own arguments to say that they don’t have a side anymore now that people are pointing out how they were wrong, but as someone who was eating popcorn on the sidelines this whole time your words were not for nothing and I thank you.
Ayla Tyrsdottir | Melsande | Rowan Cabot | Joxa | Phedra Nyx|Ephiny Tyrkin
Eternal Clarity [Ankh] /Archivists Sanctum [Lore]
A quaint dye collector with a lore problem.
Eternal Clarity [Ankh] /Archivists Sanctum [Lore]
A quaint dye collector with a lore problem.
New information came to light, even in my first post I admitted I was playing the game. There was nothing to “back out” of. There is nothing I’m sticking to, these are opposite statements. I do appreciate those who took the time to explain certain things, and to not thank those that did not contribute and decided to dog pile with a meager lack of understanding and following what goes on. Also like to not thank all those that did not speak in generalizations, those that did not attempt to do a moderators job for them, and those that were “insulted” by words on a forum that were not directed at them, or really have anything to do with them.
Uhh..what? Sylvari belong to the dragon, I’m not sure they’re great at anything anymore besides being the ultra traitors and the near-destruction of the Pact. And if you really want to get head-cannon-y, Norn are the greatest warriors because they are huge and turn into animal people which probably snap Sylvari In half. Needless, to say Charr and humans are probably more adept at warfare itself then most races for having embraced each other as enemies for the longest time.
Uhh..what? Sylvari belong to the dragon, I’m not sure they’re great at anything anymore besides being the ultra traitors and the near-destruction of the Pact. And if you really want to get head-cannon-y, Norn are the greatest warriors because they are huge and turn into animal people which probably snap Sylvari In half. Needless, to say Charr and humans are probably more adept at warfare itself then most races for having embraced each other as enemies for the longest time.
Well the original, and still claim is they are the best engineers, not warriors. I agree the best at pure warfare right now are the Norn, to a lesser extent the char. Not sure if the other stuff has anything to do with anything sadly.
On an individual, one on one basis of Norn vs Charr, the Norn is more likely to come out the victor, but when you’re talking about as a race its the Charr that are going to be the better of the two. The Norn are too individualistic and lacking in discipline compared to the Charr, whose entire society is based around the Warband and the Legion. Every charr is a soldier, a part of the war-machine.
Hate is Fuel.
Agreed, but I believe the statement was what race would make the better warriors. Not who has the better strategy, and tactics. The lack of a centralized government ironically makes the Norn arguably the weakest in this regard.
If the Charr or Norn were to make a direct assault on the Pale Tree that would raise and answer a ton of questions. Would the Sylvari feel “compelled” to come home? Would the Nightmare Court help defend? Would the Tree in a desperate attempt to defend itself release all Sylvari still in the dream? Would the Sylvari turn from their average nature of explorers, and curious adventures, to more of a militaristic one? Would each altercation with the Charr be more pronounced in the Dream?
It is my belief that the Norn would not survive or do anything of note to the Pale Tree. The Charr on the other hand, well that depends. I believe (despite many on here) that the connection is just for that purpose. That if the Pale Tree were in true physical danger from the Charr that all Sylvari would feel “compelled” to defend. Some will resist, but I suspect the more danger the stronger the drive to return home.
Defensively with a few questions answered, I believe the Sylvari would come out on top over any race. They are fighting in a forest, with many natural camouflage enemies, with a leader that has a few centuries of knowledge. Not to mention the forest itself would be a massive home field advantage. -IF- the altercation were to last awhile, the Sylvari in general I believe would come out.
However, lol
The Charr have proven very resourceful, more than any other race. If they could strike the tree quickly and decisively they could easily win. If The Sylvari has three massive weaknesses. Their strength has a bunch of questions that need to be answered, their Home Base is easily seen and cannot change location, and offensively it would heavily depend on a prolonged altercation. – Something I believe the Sylvari cannot simply do at this time.
Surprisingly the Asura falls somewhere in there as well. With every Asura comes a power armor, or at least the ability to summon one, this puts even elderly, the young, and even the untrained on par with a battle hardened warrior. With golems then can survive altercations with no casualties, and like the Sylvari it only is a matter of time before they invented something that would change the course of the battle.
But just like the Sylvari it would require time, time that the Charr would not be able to afford them. If the Charr were to strike decisively at wherever and however they were building these power suits and golems the Asura would be reduced to nothing.
Humans are being pushed back and defeated already, they would not survive any altercation aside from a few Norn tribe strikes and even then…
The only weakness of the Charr would be if they conquered the tree to claim it for their own, or the Sylvari with their constant manipulation of the forest and Nature held the Charr back. They could easily cut off unit resupplies, heck even units themselves. Massive home field advantage, these two races would be the only one that I think would give them a run for thier money.
Agreed, but I believe the statement was what race would make the better warriors. Not who has the better strategy, and tactics. The lack of a centralized government ironically makes the Norn arguably the weakest in this regard.
If the Charr or Norn were to make a direct assault on the Pale Tree that would raise and answer a ton of questions. Would the Sylvari feel “compelled” to come home? Would the Nightmare Court help defend? Would the Tree in a desperate attempt to defend itself release all Sylvari still in the dream? Would the Sylvari turn from their average nature of explorers, and curious adventures, to more of a militaristic one? Would each altercation with the Charr be more pronounced in the Dream?
It is my belief that the Norn would not survive or do anything of note to the Pale Tree. The Charr on the other hand, well that depends. I believe (despite many on here) that the connection is just for that purpose. That if the Pale Tree were in true physical danger from the Charr that all Sylvari would feel “compelled” to defend. Some will resist, but I suspect the more danger the stronger the drive to return home.
Defensively with a few questions answered, I believe the Sylvari would come out on top over any race. They are fighting in a forest, with many natural camouflage enemies, with a leader that has a few centuries of knowledge. Not to mention the forest itself would be a massive home field advantage. -IF- the altercation were to last awhile, the Sylvari in general I believe would come out.
However, lol
The Charr have proven very resourceful, more than any other race. If they could strike the tree quickly and decisively they could easily win. If The Sylvari has three massive weaknesses. Their strength has a bunch of questions that need to be answered, their Home Base is easily seen and cannot change location, and offensively it would heavily depend on a prolonged altercation. – Something I believe the Sylvari cannot simply do at this time.
Surprisingly the Asura falls somewhere in there as well. With every Asura comes a power armor, or at least the ability to summon one, this puts even elderly, the young, and even the untrained on par with a battle hardened warrior. With golems then can survive altercations with no casualties, and like the Sylvari it only is a matter of time before they invented something that would change the course of the battle.
But just like the Sylvari it would require time, time that the Charr would not be able to afford them. If the Charr were to strike decisively at wherever and however they were building these power suits and golems the Asura would be reduced to nothing.
Humans are being pushed back and defeated already, they would not survive any altercation aside from a few Norn tribe strikes and even then…
The only weakness of the Charr would be if they conquered the tree to claim it for their own, or the Sylvari with their constant manipulation of the forest and Nature held the Charr back. They could easily cut off unit resupplies, heck even units themselves. Massive home field advantage, these two races would be the only one that I think would give them a run for thier money.
I feel like you’re not giving the non-Krytan humans a fair shake, I don’t know about you but I would not dismiss the humans of Ebonhawke. They held out against the Charr for generations through martial skill alone and I would personally not kitten with them . Queen Jennah’s people of Divinity’s Reach might be a bit of a pushover but Ebonhawke is a militarily raised society and most Charr commanders even Iron Legion themselves deem Ebonhawke and it’s Fallen Angels a formidable force.
I feel like you’re not giving the non-Krytan humans a fair shake, I don’t know about you but I would not dismiss the humans of Ebonhawke. They held out against the Charr for generations through martial skill alone and I would personally not kitten with them. Queen Jennah’s people of Divinity’s Reach might be a bit of a pushover but Ebonhawke is a militarily raised society and most Charr commanders even Iron Legion themselves deem Ebonhawke and it’s Fallen Angels a formidable force.
Maybe so, it is my understanding that their main stronghold is barely under control, and even just recently the Charr deemed it worth even consideration in taking. Walking around I get the sense that this place is on death’s door. I could be wrong, and they are formidable, but they have been playing defense for quite some time. How long can they keep it up at this pace, forever? Can they muster up enough to actually go on the offense and hold a location? I can’t even picture that let alone it happening….
I would point out that the greatest weakness of the sylvari, if we’re talking national attack, is that the Pale Tree can’t move, and the sylvari can’t repopulate with her. There’s the possibility there are still some Trees in the Maguuma somewhere (we never found Malyck, after all) but we don’t know what these other sylvari would be like, if they were all claimed by the Dragon or if those Trees keep popping out sylvari now that Mordremoth is dead.
I wouldn’t have interpreted the initial post as one of which society is the strongest, but which race could produce the strongest combatant. In that case, I’d have to say that they are all equally capable of producing someone powerful in their own right. ArenaNet tried very hard to make certain that none of the races had a distinct advantage over the others, even if certain combinations of the racial skills make certain other ones better. Besides, how do you even decide what makes a strong fighter in a world with both martial and magical weapons, where you can blast either a fireball or a musket?
I would point out that the greatest weakness of the sylvari, if we’re talking national attack, is that the Pale Tree can’t move, and the sylvari can’t repopulate with her. There’s the possibility there are still some Trees in the Maguuma somewhere (we never found Malyck, after all) but we don’t know what these other sylvari would be like, if they were all claimed by the Dragon or if those Trees keep popping out sylvari now that Mordremoth is dead.
I wouldn’t have interpreted the initial post as one of which society is the strongest, but which race could produce the strongest combatant. In that case, I’d have to say that they are all equally capable of producing someone powerful in their own right. ArenaNet tried very hard to make certain that none of the races had a distinct advantage over the others, even if certain combinations of the racial skills make certain other ones better. Besides, how do you even decide what makes a strong fighter in a world with both martial and magical weapons, where you can blast either a fireball or a musket?
Yeah, as pointed out that is a huge weakness, one they might not overcome. We still do not know just how many Sylvari the Pale Tree can have. The cave where the seed was found obviously had another visitor. Sylvari are so unknown, it’s hard to have any discussion on any matter. =/
Arenanet did do a very good job with balance (Fireball vs Gun) those are gameplay elements. Arenanet did not balance races and the lore, evenly. Rightfully so, a race like the Norn have no home to call their own, they want one, but in this game they don’t get one. Humans for a majority part have been pushed back. The Asura own and control the transport network, it’s not split 50/50 or 1/5th.
In that regard the Sylvari have advanced at a breakneck pace, going from not even able to form words, to forming one of the strongest alliances. They are on par with just about every race despite the first ones waking up two decades ago. If they continue this level of evolution and integration the Sylvari should be the dominant race… again with a few questions answered.
(edited by Aden Yeshua.2148)
In that regard the Sylvari have advanced at a breakneck pace, going from not even able to form words, to forming one of the strongest alliances. They are on par with just about every race despite the first ones waking up two decades ago. If they continue this level of evolution and integration the Sylvari should be the dominant race… again with a few questions answered.
But if you look at the race as a whole like children, I think you’re overlooking that they might just plateau after a while. Young children are much more capable of learning a language they’ve never experienced, but if you’ve ever tried learning another language as an adult, you’ll know that is not an easy task at all. So they quickly caught up to the other races, but I don’t see them necessarily surpassing them. They’d probably also be willing to share what they know, as all the major races have contributed what they can to the cause of stopping the dragons.
I’d be very surprised if there was an upper limit to how many sylvari there can be. I mean, have you ever counted the seeds that fall from a tree? Or perhaps it’d be more accurate to tally the fruits, including that some of them are rotten. (Sadly, I can’t think of a metaphor for the Soundless.) The Pale Tree will just keep producing sylvari until she dies or is severely damaged once more. When she starts dying, that’s when the sylvari will have to worry.
In that regard the Sylvari have advanced at a breakneck pace, going from not even able to form words, to forming one of the strongest alliances. They are on par with just about every race despite the first ones waking up two decades ago. If they continue this level of evolution and integration the Sylvari should be the dominant race… again with a few questions answered.
But if you look at the race as a whole like children, I think you’re overlooking that they might just plateau after a while. Young children are much more capable of learning a language they’ve never experienced, but if you’ve ever tried learning another language as an adult, you’ll know that is not an easy task at all. So they quickly caught up to the other races, but I don’t see them necessarily surpassing them. They’d probably also be willing to share what they know, as all the major races have contributed what they can to the cause of stopping the dragons.
I’d be very surprised if there was an upper limit to how many sylvari there can be. I mean, have you ever counted the seeds that fall from a tree? Or perhaps it’d be more accurate to tally the fruits, including that some of them are rotten. (Sadly, I can’t think of a metaphor for the Soundless.) The Pale Tree will just keep producing sylvari until she dies or is severely damaged once more. When she starts dying, that’s when the sylvari will have to worry.
Maybe, we still don’t know how seeds are made. This thing like many plants just start churning out seeds for itself we don’t know. For all we know the Sylvari might be the tree seeds. They might plateau or litterally die out, we can only go on what we see so far. What we see so far looks amazing.
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