Sylvari technology?
Scarlet did some pretty impressive stuff. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scarlet_Briar
“Sylvari technology” is, as we see with Scarlet Briar the lore wreck that she was, often a case of taking other races’ technology and putting a new twist in it. Sylvari as a culture are more magic-based, specifically with plant magic, than the other races (even asura, really).
Their study of science also tends to go in different directions because they themselves are plants putting them in a different state of mind than other races (and they’re new so they’re more focused on studying current states than seeing how they can alter current states like asura, charr, and humans are).
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
I’ll point out that the asura are already doing genetics too- there’s an exchange that’s stuck with me about bacon-scented flowers.
But I digress. To build off what Konig said, it’s not just that they’re more inclined towards ‘plant magic’, but that those capabilities fill the same basic niches that technology does. Housing, furniture, clothing, armor, weapons, containers, jewelry, art, even carts; they can, and do, grow it all, and by all indications can do so much quicker, with much less required in the way of materials, than the equivalent methods of other races. They don’t have much impetus to develop a scientific tradition when they aren’t faced with any problem they can’t surmount without it.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
While I agree that sylvari do grow most of their tools (technology in itself), Scarlet should still not be left out. No technology is developed in a vacuum after all and more often than not small upgrades and modifications make the big impact. Fusing completely different technologies together is impressive imo.
While I agree that sylvari do grow most of their tools (technology in itself), Scarlet should still not be left out. No technology is developed in a vacuum after all and more often than not small upgrades and modifications make the big impact. Fusing completely different technologies together is impressive imo.
I don’t think we’ve seen many if any people actually do anything with her technology. There are probably a couple Priory scholars studying it, Aetherblades might be using some of her upgrades, and the Humans reverse engineered her steam creatures to make their watchworks, but that’s about it.
Taimi, if anyone, would have been the best candidate to start incorporating Scarlet’s designs into her own, but Anet seemed to drop the ball on that regard. Which, to me, kinda makes Scarlet’s whole lore situation kinda worse. They already had to take a lot of liberties trying jam and explain everything she did in the story, and now that she’s dead they seem to be trying to turn a blind eye to any and all ramification to her actions other than her awakening Mordremoth.
In an ongoing war against creatures with large armies and the power to easily destroy cities and reshape the land itself, why wouldn’t we be using and repurposing Scarlet’s technology? Heck, the twisted watchwork designs by itself would be a huge boon to the Pact’s forces. As long as the menders are still functional, they would be able to just keep repairing themselves and the other twisted watchworks and keep going into battle against dragon minions.
(edited by Erukk.1408)
Hehe, we need a How It Should Have Ended gw2 edition.
Hehe, we need a How It Should Have Ended gw2 edition.
How it should have ended; “should we cut off each single tree and burn eatch plant?”
“No, the roots are to deep, it will just regrow”
- asura “great endless wood supply! I start buulding lumberjack golems with integrated portal, sell all the wood and make millions! Until the price drops, then i start sending the wood to jormak, buring in and endless fire until he melts, two dragons destroyed, who’s in?”
Hehe, we need a How It Should Have Ended gw2 edition.
How it should have ended; “should we cut off each single tree and burn eatch plant?”
“No, the roots are to deep, it will just regrow”
- asura “great endless wood supply! I start buulding lumberjack golems with integrated portal, sell all the wood and make millions! Until the price drops, then i start sending the wood to jormak, buring in and endless fire until he melts, two dragons destroyed, who’s in?”
Perfect, and when wood drops in price in TP we can milk the vendors forever!
While I agree that sylvari do grow most of their tools (technology in itself), Scarlet should still not be left out. No technology is developed in a vacuum after all and more often than not small upgrades and modifications make the big impact. Fusing completely different technologies together is impressive imo.
Scarlet is more the exception than the rule. Like a charr who’s worshiping gods but isn’t in the Flame Legion.
Scarlet took technology from all other races – like I mentioned – and nothing made by herself for the most part (if not the whole part). She was not a creator, she was a renovator. What technology was directly attributed to her was a blatant retcon (Steam creatures) which don’t even match her designs and MO (organic cores in robotic bodies!).
But again, she is the exception, not the rule. And a very poorly written exception at that.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Hehe, we need a How It Should Have Ended gw2 edition.
Captain’s Council: So, you’re saying that this slyvari, Scarlet Briar, is going to be attacking Lion’s Arch with a fleet of sky pirates and other nefarious groups?
Kiel: Yes.
CC: And that it would be the best idea for everyone to instal air defenses and be on high alert?
Kiel: Well, yes…
CC: Sure, why not. After what happened at Dragon Bash, that sounds like a good idea.
~~Cuts to Trahearne looking on as Scarlet’s fleet is shot down over LA and her forces quickly cut down by Lionguard and Order forces.~~
Trahearne: How does everyone feel like going to Elona to take down Kralkatorrik?
As people have said, the main “technology” that sylvari call their own is based around plant manipulation. They have an instinctive ability – probably an inheritance from Mordremoth and their intended role as intelligent soldiers for Mordremoth – to manipulate plants towards their purposes, including military ones, such as seed mortars, vine walls (some of which in Fort Trinity are reminiscent of some we see in HoT) and magic weapons.
(Scarlet Briar is an exception to the rule – if you look at her background, her own inventions (as opposed to those stolen from others) are essentially a fusion of asura magitech, charr engineering, norn metallurgy, and hylek alchemy. Taimi, with her apprenticeship to a charr engineer, seems to be following a similar path.)
Humans are still possibly the strongest at technology that harnesses the environment around them rather than using an energy source like magic (asura) or burning fuel (charr) – things like sails, windmills, water-wheels, unpowered lighter-than-air flight, and so on (this is probably the contribution humans made to the Pact airships). Humans also have a more artistic and intuitive approach to magic than the more scientific asura – this means that while for most asura technology form follows function, and on the whole the asura have more powerful stuff, humans are able to make powerful magic items from what are outwardly mundane objects. They’ve also had some success at reverse-engineering some asura and charr technologies.
(The watchknights are a good example of what this can accomplish. The physical form is a product of Scarlet’s fusion of charr clockwork and asura magitech, but if Scarlet or an asura had wanted to give them the capability of changing their appearance, this would probably have required adding a holoprojector as a physical accessory (Scarlet’s Twisted seem to have lost this capability, for instance). Because human magic items don’t require a specific form, however, humans seem to have been able to simply add mesmeric abilities to the Watchknights through simply enchanting the existing physical structure rather than needing to add additional devices. This could mean that, as powerful as asura magitech, or asura/charr combination tech, is, any of these could be made more potent by adding a human enchantment on top. On that note, I’m inclined to agree that with Scarlet dead, it’s probably reasonable to consider that the Watchknights are safe to redeploy (especially since it was claimed in the Living Story that they closed Scarlet’s backdoor anyway) – however, with the Aetherblades and likely Scarlet’s Inquest contractors still out there, there’s the possibility that Scarlet provided one of her lieutenants with the backdoor.)
Norn… generally seem to be more about refinement than innovation. They have the technology that has become common to all races, but don’t seem to be breaking any new ground on their own. Norn craftsmen strive to become the best in their field, but they generally do so by trying to be the best there is at making things that are already known rather than coming up with something entirely new. To reference a quote attributed to Henry Ford, the norn are likely to breed better horses rather than design the car. However, while they don’t break new ground, this process of refinement can still lead to advancement – for instance, Beigarth’s quest to rediscover the secrets of Deldrimor steel was part of making a better axe, but is still a significant achievement nonetheless.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Hehe, we need a How It Should Have Ended gw2 edition.
Captain’s Council: So, you’re saying that this slyvari, Scarlet Briar, is going to be attacking Lion’s Arch with a fleet of sky pirates and other nefarious groups?
Kiel: Yes.
CC: And that it would be the best idea for everyone to instal air defenses and be on high alert?
Kiel: Well, yes…
CC: Sure, why not. After what happened at Dragon Bash, that sounds like a good idea.
~~Cuts to Trahearne looking on as Scarlet’s fleet is shot down over LA and her forces quickly cut down by Lionguard and Order forces.~~
Trahearne: How does everyone feel like going to Elona to take down Kralkatorrik?
Honestly, I’m doubtful that they would have wiped out Scarlet’s assault even if the Lionguard were on full alert and had assistance from the Order (they wouldn’t have gotten aid from the Pact unless the Captain’s Council offered something very useful for fighting dragons – the only non-dragon affair the Pact got involved in was the Flame Legion and this was because of the rumors that Gaheron was making a weapon that would make him as strong as a god; the Pact wanted to confinscate this weapon to use against the Elder Dragons – sadly, it was Gaheron’s ‘godform’ by all likelihood (though I guess it could have been the Searing Effigy or the Eternal Flame) which was unusable by the Pact; furthermore the Iron Legion offered their tanks, submarines, and choppers to the Pact for this assistance, which was a huge boon).
Keep in mind that Scarlet did more than just an aerial assault – she also had the Molten Alliance come from underground, and the Toxic Alliance from the sea. She even had portals that she used. And along with foot soldiers there was the toxins – that’s what really hindered the Lionguard, not the Aetherblade airships.
Just my little derailing.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
It’s typical for the How It Should Have Ended series to miss pesky little details that would make that ending not work for the sake of making the joke.
The classic ‘just take eagles into Mordor’ example, for instance, ignores the consideration that we know that Sauron had flying creatures, and may have had other air defenses as well. The eagles didn’t to enter Mordor until after the Ring was destroyed. (Although I have seen an interpretation that theorises that going to the Eagles was Gandalf’s plan all along, but he kept it to himself to avoid tipping off Sauron or Saruman to his intentions.)
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Fly you fools!
Need more characters…
What technology was directly attributed to her was a blatant retcon (Steam creatures) which don’t even match her designs and MO (organic cores in robotic bodies!).
Just because you say it is a retcon, does not mean it should be dismissed. Even the steam creatures, one scholar suspects she reverse-engineered found ones.
Explorer Geargrind: (snort) More likely she disassembled some of those things and did some reverse-engineering to learn how to control them.
It got revealed in S2 she created the steam creatures and dumped them into Lornar’s Pass. it is a recon because they had a different origin in early asura PS (that was a fun PS story too xD)
True, I only showed what in-game scholars thought. But I do not even agree that it was a retcon from the personal story. The future is not so linear, and even after the Split Second instance, timelines could have changed. When it comes to future/timelines/time mumbo-jumbo, I’m not too quick to call retcon (though other Scarlet-related things are definitely retcons)
True, I only showed what in-game scholars thought. But I do not even agree that it was a retcon from the personal story. The future is not so linear, and even after the Split Second instance, timelines could have changed. When it comes to future/timelines/time mumbo-jumbo, I’m not too quick to call retcon (though other Scarlet-related things are definitely retcons)
Scarlet mentions she dumped them into Brisban Wildlands.
The ONLY time we see Steam creatures anywhere near Brisban is when tied to the Thaumanova explosion which teleports anything randomly, or in the personal story Split Second.
Not to mention that at the time, steam creatures weren’t even invented in our world according to the future PC, when S2 claims that Scarlet invented them several years before the PS. Now the future world dominator could be lying… but why would he/she? (The true irony is that Angel McCoy even made a forum post that there was no contradiction from the asura personal story! – yeah, right)
But when it comes to the origin of the Steam creatures in Lornar’s Pass, the explanation given to us makes no sense whatsoever either. And that’s discounting the possibility of them coming from the possible future.
Even excluding that part, the whole thing of Scarlet building them as revealed in Prosperity’s Mystery is that Scarlet used dredge materials, however the Order of Whispers and Priory agents in the area explicitly state that the materials and engravings are a complete mystery.
Here’s one such case of the mention:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steam_Gasket_Ring
If the wiki is accurate… it was removed from the game. Though it could be just a wiki error.
Both orders have samples of dredge technology and dredge-mined metals, as we see in Wayfarers and the norn personal story. If the metals came from the ‘dredge black market’ (which in of itself is silly given how xenophobic the dredge are – why would they have a black market? The only group any dredge deals with are the Inquest, presumably that’s how Scarlet got to them, and it was hardly an underground dealing (metaphorically that is)), then the Priory and Whisper agents would be able to figure that out.
Trust me, I am NOT saying retcon just cuz Scarlet was made the origin. I’m saying retcon because Scarlet using dredge materials as the origin makes no sense given what lore we were given in Lornar’s Pass.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
The ONLY time we see Steam creatures anywhere near Brisban is when tied to the Thaumanova explosion which teleports anything randomly, or in the personal story Split Second.
That’s not true. They also appear in Tekki’s gate.
Not to mention that at the time, steam creatures weren’t even invented in our world according to the future PC, when S2 claims that Scarlet invented them several years before the PS. Now the future world dominator could be lying… but why would he/she?
I am saying that the timelines changes after our interference in the PC. It would of retroactively changed not only our future bu the past aswell. That is to say that is was our timeline at all, as Angel even stated, it was a possible future. I agree with her, I don’t see the contradiction.
Even excluding that part, the whole thing of Scarlet building them as revealed in Prosperity’s Mystery is that Scarlet used dredge materials, however the Order of Whispers and Priory agents in the area explicitly state that the materials and engravings are a complete mystery.
The earlier steam creatures started out from dredge metals, but we know that they soon become self-replicating and improved themselves. They built upon the prior, possibly finding better alloys. After all, we know that the steam creatures in lornar’s is partially made with bones.
With the arguments you brought up, I don’t see the contradiction, especially when there are other legitimate retcons.
Scarlet did some pretty impressive stuff. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scarlet_Briar
Comic book evil geniuses always have the best toys.
That’s not true. They also appear in Tekki’s gate.
Wasn’t sure if they did or not. Point being, however, is that all appearances in Brisban Wildlands come directly from the Shiverpeaks and via unintentional methods. Tekki’s gate, which also brings in icebrood and other natives to the Shiverpeaks, is no exception to this statement.
So, still, not a single Steam creature in Brisban could have possibly came from Scarlet’s secret labs – wherever that might have been – as they were all unintentionally teleported there or came from the Infinity Ball.
I am saying that the timelines changes after our interference in the PC. It would of retroactively changed not only our future bu the past aswell. That is to say that is was our timeline at all, as Angel even stated, it was a possible future. I agree with her, I don’t see the contradiction.
According to Season 2, Scarlet created the Steam creatures prior to 1325, when we have the Infinity Ball storyline taking place.
Ceara: My black-market dredge contacts continue to prove useful. For a little gold, they sell me their scrap iron so I can build my steam minotaurs.
Ceara: I’ve landed a lab assistant position with Omadd, an intelligent but overly gentle asura. I should be able to wrap him around my little finger.
Ceara: Today I am sixteen cycles old, and to celebrate, I’ve been testing my first steam portal with steam minotaurs. The last batch actually made it in one piece.
This explicitly states that Scarlet had created Steam creatures prior to 1320 AE, as Scarlet was born in 1304 AE and had already been building the steam creatures prior to turning 16.
Mysterious Stranger: Wait until you get to know my creations. In my reality, they conquered Tyria.
Mysterious Stranger: You don’t stand a chance. In your world, this technology hasn’t even been invented yet!
This explicitly states that the future you not only invented the Steam creatures, but that they don’t exist in Tyria yet. Seeing how Scarlet had already made them, either this is a blatant retcon, or our future selves are blatant liars who wouldn’t even care if the PC knew that they were lying. Which makes no sense and doesn’t match the mentality of the character.
The earlier steam creatures started out from dredge metals, but we know that they soon become self-replicating and improved themselves. They built upon the prior, possibly finding better alloys. After all, we know that the steam creatures in lornar’s is partially made with bones.
Yes, it says that they build from “whatever materials they can find” but they’re finding these materials in Lonar’s Pass or in Scarlet’s lab.
All materials the Steam creatures ever had access to, the Priory and Whispers should know about.
All in all, they should have left it as a “Scarlet reverse engineered the Steam creatures” set up.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Okay, I see your point now, but this one point I’m unconvinced with.
This explicitly states that the future you not only invented the Steam creatures, but that they don’t exist in Tyria yet. Seeing how Scarlet had already made them, either this is a blatant retcon, or our future selves are blatant liars who wouldn’t even care if the PC knew that they were lying. Which makes no sense and doesn’t match the mentality of the character.
I am saying there is a third option, that after the defeat of the mysterious stranger, the timelines changed to where scarlet created them. I am saying that time was not linear and all past, presents, and future were changed when we killed someone from the future; a sort of butterfly effect that effects not only what is to come but what has already happened.
1. we create steam creatures in future
2. they come back to the present
3. future self comes to the present
4. present self kills future self
5. timeline changes origins of steam creatures.
Though now I do see your point about brisban and the dredge metals.
That makes no sense, though, because the Infinity Ball shows a possible future – basically creating a fractal-like state of the future – based on the moment it is used. Scarlet had already made the Steam creatures, so there could not be some divergent where Scarlet would create the Steam creatures.
In order for your explanation to work, the creation of the Steam creature has to still be in the future of when ‘the present’ is. The butterfly effect is an act of going to the past and changing the timeline from that moment in the past and onward.
However, to change the origin of the Steam creatures, then the ‘future self’ would have had to go further in the past by five (or more) years – prior to the creation of the Steam creatures – in order to change the origins of the Steam creatures.
In other words, the timeline that happened isn’t the five points you have but:
1. Scarlet creates Steam creatures
2. Future events happen, future self disowns Zojja and takes over the (known) world.
3. Future self and Steam creatures come to the present.
4. Present self kills future self.
5. Timeline changes fate of self.
Though we’ve gotten confirmation elsewhere that the Infinity Ball is less time travel and more ‘making a possible future physical’ which is more akin to the Fractals of the Mists, the main difference being that it only becomes physical once entering/leaving the ‘portal’ the Infinity Ball made.
Overall, it just doesn’t make a lot of sense when you add in Scarlet. They really should have just had that scholar be right and that Scarlet only reverse engineered the Steam creatures.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Who knows. Perhaps the future PC’s actions kills Scarlet before she starts doing anything big, meaning that her steam creature designs are either lost or destroyed and in the wreckage the future PC gets what they need to create Steam Creatures of their own?
I would think that Sylvari technology would be more bio mechanical in nature. However given the nature of the game I do not think creating a whole new branch of technology for them may be a bit of a strech.. no puns intended.
dont forget the human clockwork technology!
As for sylvari tech, as you mentioned before they can learn other races technology.
Their own “technology” is plant life based. While some melt iron and build contraptions, and other tinker with magical forces (combining them with physical crystals and gadgets) sylvari can simply grow things made out of plants.
Starting with their own “homegrown” clothing and armor, developing and growing turret like seeds/plants, growing plant based buildings and structures as well as having a great understanding of all plant like lifeforms (hence they are great at agroculture)
I dont expect a sylvari to build a tank, but with their inteligence they could help out or improve the engines, ammunition and other such things that arent so mechanical.
Sylvari are very good at making charcoal.