Guild Wars 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eXMY3_G3njI

So the egg indeed is going to serve as a key to defeat Mordremoth.

For those who can’t hear well:

“The legend is true. There is a dragon egg. Every force on Tyria will want it. Especially Mordremoth. This egg could be the key to defeating the dragons. It must be found, at any cost.”

Narrated by, I believe, Caithe.

But how do we use a little egg to fight the dragons? Glint herself got squashed by Kralkatorrik.

I do wonder if we will use the egg itself to actually fight the Dragons or if it simply is the key to unlock more information about how the Dragons and their corruption works, which could very well turn the tide against them.

That is not Rytlock in the video, right?

I did not recognize Rytlock.

lordkrall.7241:

I do wonder if we will use the egg itself to actually fight the Dragons or if it simply is the key to unlock more information about how the Dragons and their corruption works, which could very well turn the tide against them.

I think we already spent too much time on research already and should take some serious action now.

theres a problem with the levels of magic in the world at the moment, since we defeated zhaitan
theres now all this magic in the world and now where for it to go.
so i think they will use this dragon egg by hatching it and letting it absorb all of the magic zhaitan released when he died (and obviously the want to make the dragon good like glint was)

that or there gonna throw the egg at an elder dragons face in an attempt to publicly humiliate it into submission

Slowpokeking.8720:

I think we already spent too much time on research already and should take some serious action now.

And yet even with all that research hundreds if not thousands died during the attack on Zhaitan. Clearly we do need to know more in order to avoid such massive losses against the rest of the Dragons, otherwise there will be no one left after we are done with them.

lordkrall.7241:

And yet even with all that research hundreds if not thousands died during the attack on Zhaitan. Clearly we do need to know more in order to avoid such massive losses against the rest of the Dragons, otherwise there will be no one left after we are done with them.

Mord was not like Zhaitan, it had just awoke, so it didn’t have that much time to spread its corruption yet. But it had the ability to strike from underground, which we could not defend, so we should act fast before it could grow too strong.

Sure some research could be awesome, but we already spent quite a lot of quests on it, I think it should be enough, and the current info we got was all about the whole structure of magic, not really useful against Mord itself.

@saventis: we actually haven’t really seen any results of Zhaitan’s magic going into the world. The only real result we’ve seen is the risen getting more powerful – at least Tequatl has been acknowledged as becoming more powerful in story, though mechanically all Orrian risen have grown in size and become stronger in mechanics.

It’s likely that Zhaitan’s magic is being asborbed by his minions, at least in part, rather than fully going into the world.

Similarly, it means that the Elder Dragons can consume more before they run out of food.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@saventis: we actually haven’t really seen any results of Zhaitan’s magic going into the world. The only real result we’ve seen is the risen getting more powerful – at least Tequatl has been acknowledged as becoming more powerful in story, though mechanically all Orrian risen have grown in size and become stronger in mechanics.

It’s likely that Zhaitan’s magic is being asborbed by his minions, at least in part, rather than fully going into the world.

Similarly, it means that the Elder Dragons can consume more before they run out of food.

Only teq, overall, the Risen threat had become much weaker after Zhaitan’s death.

That’s not true. Like I said, only Tequatl was thus far acknowledged in story, but in January 2013, the temple events were updated, making them more difficult, and the risen mob density in Orr was altered, including the size of Orrian risen being enlarged (making them more norn-sized, rather than the original human sized).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/January_2013#World_Polish_%E2%80%93_Orr

• The Risen creatures all across Orr have had their population density adjusted.
• Various Risen creatures have had their animations and size updated.
• The difficulty of events to claim and defend the Orrian temples and the Gates to Arah will now scale to accommodate a larger number of players.

In other updates, risen were made more hunched over, and in a different one various risen champs (Risen Wraith, Abomination, Knight, Drake, and others) were given new skills (such as the wraith’s AoE continuous life stealing skill that needs to be interrupted to end it).

It’s hard to determine how much of these are actual changes to the lore in respect to the living story, but they all began with the living story. So it can go either way.

We have a few cases where they look ‘weaker’ (hunched over animation, fewer CC skills in Orr), but even more cases where they’ve become ‘tougher’. The question is: mechanic alone, or lore as well like Tequatl?

They can easily make such lore if they so desire.

Mostly good points. However, the size increase for vets and above merely brought Orr in line with newer content. I notice it a lot in Dry Top, where the upscaled inquest enemies are bigger than my sylvari.

It doesn’t seem to be a lore thing, as they’re applying it to every type of enemy.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Mord was not like Zhaitan, it had just awoke, so it didn’t have that much time to spread its corruption yet. But it had the ability to strike from underground, which we could not defend, so we should act fast before it could grow too strong.

Sure some research could be awesome, but we already spent quite a lot of quests on it, I think it should be enough, and the current info we got was all about the whole structure of magic, not really useful against Mord itself.

Indeed, it has just awakened.
What happened when the other Dragons woke up?

I would say it would be suicide to send in the army against an enemy that might very well more or less explode and wipe out the half of Maguuma without proper preparations.
We also have no clue how the egg will work (or if it even will ) against Elder Dragons, and that is something that we need to find out before just throwing it at Mordy.

Gulesave.5073:

Mostly good points. However, the size increase for vets and above merely brought Orr in line with newer content. I notice it a lot in Dry Top, where the upscaled inquest enemies are bigger than my sylvari.

It doesn’t seem to be a lore thing, as they’re applying it to every type of enemy.

The January 2013 update (Flame and Frost: Prelude) made a lot of changes to Orr. It added new waypoints, redesigned the temples and certain champ fights, and the size change to standard mobs.

The risen still increase size with upscaling, as they did since release, but with that update even standard level risen are larger than they once were.

Size scaling is natural for higher-than-standard levels, veterans, and champions. Elites never got the treatment, nor did Legendaries I believe. But such size scaling was around since release, even for the risen.

Lets not forget that Mordremoth is so far the only Elder Dragon we know of that’s been fed energy directly from a ley line. If that doesn’t give him a major boost at his awakening I don’t know what will. Saying he’s weak just because he just woke up is pretty much denying the fact that his reach so far has been longer than any other Elder Dragon we’ve seen (aside from Jormag if you’re considering the whole northern Shiverpeaks). That and we haven’t even seen any cataclysmic event from his awakening.

The adjustment to Risen population density in Orr was a severe reduction in numbers, which the sole purpose of was to make the area easier to traverse. Prior to that Jan. 2013 update you couldn’t take 5 steps in Orr without being surrounded by Risen, which personally I much prefer Orr before the update to the current state where I can run from one end to the other without practically having to fight once. The fact that they are larger and some have newer skills is nothing, that was the beginning of making the game more suited to casual players, or to pacify the complainers that Orr was to hard, bah! Though you could say the reduction in number of Risen was in direct relation to our having killed Zhaitan, which in theory, should have dropped the Risen numbers to zero/0, since the reason for the Risen to be alive no longer exists. I would presume, though it’s not stated anywhere I am aware of, that without Zhaitan’s existence, there would be no Risen(including Teq.), but that would make the game boring.

If someone ever really makes a game with a *real living world’, it would most certainly have to have multiple copies of said world, world at release with terrible boss, world after you have killed boss with renewal…then move on to the next world with the newest threat, but that’s entirely beyond the scope of this conversation.

Killing Zhaitan wouldn’t have made all risen drop dead. In Arah explorable, we even see how they think Zhaitan is still alive – that’s how much dragon corruption messes with the victims’ minds. Because they think “Zhaitan lives” – they continue spreading corruption, fighting the ‘good fight’, and so forth.

Their numbers would slowly dwindle (a point Trahearne mentions in the cinematic upon returning to Fort Trinity after killing Zhaitan: “With Zhaitan defeated, the corruption it wrought can be undone. The dragon’s undead minions that still infest Tyria will now gradually be exterminated. One day soon, that plague will be but a memory. ")… unless the champions gather a lot of magic and keep on spreading the corruption.

The update was reducing the number of mobs in Orr, yes, but also made individuals tougher – particularly the various champions (as in lore-based dragon champions, not mechanical champions, though that as well).

And then we get Tequatl Rising… Which, I may add, explicitly occurred in 1326 AE – nearly a year after Zhaitan’s defeat.

And now we’re told that dragons may be capable of becoming Elder Dragons if they consume enough magic.

Underdark.3726:

That is not Rytlock in the video, right?

The Charr is supposed to represent the player character I believe.

saventis.1485:

that or there gonna throw the egg at an elder dragons face in an attempt to publicly humiliate it into submission

Eeeegg the Dragon!
Shame the Dragon!
Drive it right back into its den!

Eeeegg the Dragon!
Shame the Dragon!
May it never show its face again!

Why do I get this eerie feeling after seeing this particular trailer, that we might be getting closer to finding out the fate of the other pale tree. As if the vision that Scarlet had was actually the strangling of that other pale tree. Perhaps Mordremoth might have a nasty surprise for us as we get closer to the source.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Killing Zhaitan wouldn’t have made all risen drop dead. In Arah explorable, we even see how they think Zhaitan is still alive – that’s how much dragon corruption messes with the victims’ minds. Because they think “Zhaitan lives” – they continue spreading corruption, fighting the ‘good fight’, and so forth.

Their numbers would slowly dwindle (a point Trahearne mentions in the cinematic upon returning to Fort Trinity after killing Zhaitan: “With Zhaitan defeated, the corruption it wrought can be undone. The dragon’s undead minions that still infest Tyria will now gradually be exterminated. One day soon, that plague will be but a memory. ")… unless the champions gather a lot of magic and keep on spreading the corruption.

The update was reducing the number of mobs in Orr, yes, but also made individuals tougher – particularly the various champions (as in lore-based dragon champions, not mechanical champions, though that as well).

And then we get Tequatl Rising… Which, I may add, explicitly occurred in 1326 AE – nearly a year after Zhaitan’s defeat.

And now we’re told that dragons may be capable of becoming Elder Dragons if they consume enough magic.

Okay, I’ll give you that(completely forgot about what Trahearne says at the end), but, knowing that dragons may be capable of becoming Elder Dragons…does that lead into an Elder Dragons Champion being able to become one. In theory, wouldn’t the Champion have to be unshackled from the Elder Dragon whom they serve in order to become an Elder Dragon(like Glint), as opposed to saying still being corrupted(like Tequatl)?

Well, Glint was still physically corrupted, she just regained her free will.

It’s possible that that the way it normally works – as much as there can be a ‘normally’ for something as momentous as killing an Elder Dragon – is that the channels of magic and control passes to the most powerful champion of the dragon. In Zhaitan’s case, that may be Tequatl. Thus, Tequatl has essentially already been ‘promoted’ to Elder Dragon status, albeit a relatively weak one, and has free will due to no longer having a higher link in the chain of command.

Its possible that, in the case of such a handover, the champion begins to think of itself as being the Elder Dragon it once served. The effect of a high-investment level of corruption – such as for a top-level dragon champion – may well involve overlaying a personality on the champion that closely matches that of its master, to ensure that it continues to follow the master’s goals even if the connection is temporarily severed. Thus, when a champion starts receiving ‘orders’ from inside its own mind instead of from an external source, and those orders are much the same as it was receiving previously, it might eventually come to think that it was actually the original Elder Dragon all along.

Which brings up the possibility that Zhaitan is not actually the first Elder Dragon to be slain, and that actually all of them might have been essentially reincarnated in the bodies of their greatest champions a number of times in the past.

Food for thought:

What if in the case of an Elder Dragon dying and the magic going to one of its dragons, the dragon (in this case Tequatl) continues to serve its maker…

In such a scenario, the minions would still cry out the Elder Dragon’s name (in this case, Zhaitan), but as the dragon cannot speak in modern languages, we never heard the new Elder Dragon speak, thus to the races, the new Dragon becomes “Zhaitan”.

In other words, ‘Zhaitan’ (and the other Elder Dragon names) may not be the true name of the modern ED, but the first to alter mentality in those it corrupted. We just thought it was Zhaitan, because the minions treat the corrupting force as Zhaitan. The Zhaitan we killed could have been a dragon champion from ages past. Which could then explain whyhe looks undead – not because he’s the Elder Death Dragon, but because he is not the original Elder Death Dragon.

The minions, even the current Elder Dragon, could just see the current Elder Dragon as ‘the strongest champion’ and not Zhaitan, etc.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That’s not true. Like I said, only Tequatl was thus far acknowledged in story, but in January 2013, the temple events were updated, making them more difficult, and the risen mob density in Orr was altered, including the size of Orrian risen being enlarged (making them more norn-sized, rather than the original human sized).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/January_2013#World_Polish_%E2%80%93_Orr

• The Risen creatures all across Orr have had their population density adjusted.
• Various Risen creatures have had their animations and size updated.
• The difficulty of events to claim and defend the Orrian temples and the Gates to Arah will now scale to accommodate a larger number of players.

In other updates, risen were made more hunched over, and in a different one various risen champs (Risen Wraith, Abomination, Knight, Drake, and others) were given new skills (such as the wraith’s AoE continuous life stealing skill that needs to be interrupted to end it).

It’s hard to determine how much of these are actual changes to the lore in respect to the living story, but they all began with the living story. So it can go either way.

We have a few cases where they look ‘weaker’ (hunched over animation, fewer CC skills in Orr), but even more cases where they’ve become ‘tougher’. The question is: mechanic alone, or lore as well like Tequatl?

They can easily make such lore if they so desire.

I don’t think it’s really showing the lore, mostly just game mech. They no longer have a powerful dragon to create new champions and command all the Risen to perform strikes outside of Orr, the source was cleansed. The Risen Navy weren’t that big of a threat anymore(Do they even exist after that?).

Even Teq is nothing compare to Zhaitan. No matter the size, the ability to corrupt and create champions or its influence. Not to say it was killed already.

we killed zaihtan the dragon that was supposibly made up of ( or to at least look like it is) other dragons
so what if he worked in a sorta add to the biomass kind of way what i zaihtan was on dragon surrounded by many others creating a biomass of undead dragons around him we could control

im just saying there is the potential that one of these dragons split of as the biomass(the big dragon made of little dragons) died and has taken with it the mindset or esscance or something similar of zaihtan with it and is slowly becoming the new zaihtan

just an idea

It has been gathering power in the depths.

It is faster, stronger, deadlier.

It has returned to devour and destroy.

It is called Tequatl the Sunless… and it has evolved.

So Teq mostly went into the depth to drain some power that returned into the core of Tyria after Zhaitan’s death. This could also explain the time gap.

Slowpokeking.8720:

I don’t think it’s really showing the lore, mostly just game mech. They no longer have a powerful dragon to create new champions and command all the Risen to perform strikes outside of Orr, the source was cleansed. The Risen Navy weren’t that big of a threat anymore(Do they even exist after that?).

At this point, it’s up in the air. Anet could take it for lore, given that it was a highlight of the update that it all happened with, and it would follow the lore they’ve established before and after (tell us that the numbers will dwindle – we get an update for dwindling numbers but strengthened foe with no story to it – give us a bare-bones story update including and about a mechanical improvement).

Slowpokeking.8720:

Even Teq is nothing compare to Zhaitan. No matter the size, the ability to corrupt and create champions or its influence. Not to say it was killed already.

Is he dead? Or did he just lose a tail? Rox claims he’s dead, but even if she’s truthful – there were a LOT of dragons in the skies with Zhaitan. I doubt all of them were killed.

Slowpokeking.8720:

It has been gathering power in the depths.

It is faster, stronger, deadlier.

It has returned to devour and destroy.

It is called Tequatl the Sunless… and it has evolved.

So Teq mostly went into the depth to drain some power that returned into the core of Tyria after Zhaitan’s death. This could also explain the time gap.

Depths as in the Sea of Sorrows’ depths – or so how I interpret that line.

I doubt he went to the core of Tyria – that would be very deep indeed, and too much risk of running into Primordus and Destroyers. Why would he go to the core of Tyria, when he has a dragon corpse to drain magic from.

Really, given how bare minimum the Tequatl Rising plot was, it’s hard to say.

What’s important to note, however, is that Bobby Stein confirmed that there was a plot and that it tied into the living world’s story. And now, in the living world, we got a hint of a champion becoming ED level – how even dragon champions (so long as they’re the dragon variants) can consume and contain magic – and how dead dragons’ magic seeps back into the world. Tequatl didn’t hit the level of Elder Dragon, but he became stronger.

If Tequatl Rising’s story has any ties into modern plot as Bobby Stein said it did, I think that Episode 5 gave those ties in.

We could argue that some Risen might become stronger by draining Zhaitan’s power, but no doubt that overall, Risen, as a whole, their threat has been significantly reduced. Otherwise the pact would still have to mainly focus on them rather than Mordremoth.

As for a champion to become another Dragon, it’s not something we should think about first, the first priority is to stop Mordremoth. We need to know how would the egg help defeat the dragons.

Technically, “we” could think about whatever we want. Our characters’ priority is Mordy. :P

And yeah, I don’t disagree that overall the risen threat has reduced – at least for now. The thought is more of “will it do nothing but dwindle over time, or is there a chance that it can surge up as a threat once more in the future via Zhaitan being replaced?”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Technically, “we” could think about whatever we want. Our characters’ priority is Mordy. :P

And yeah, I don’t disagree that overall the risen threat has reduced – at least for now. The thought is more of “will it do nothing but dwindle over time, or is there a chance that it can surge up as a threat once more in the future via Zhaitan being replaced?”

So I think Anet shouldn’t focus a bit more on the current threat than giving too much info about the whole world’s process, at least not before we have some process on Mordremoth. The vision we got from the Pale Tree was still not explained as well.

It depends on where did Zhaitan’s power go.

If we could hunt down the remaining Risen champions, the Risen forces would further collapse, the Risen itself would not cause big trouble in short time, but we don’t know what disaster might Zhaitan’s energy cause if nobody picks it up.