Guild Wars 2

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Er…

Blazeridge is about The Shatterer (you see branded crystals called “Dragon Shards”). Frostgorge is about Claw of Jormag (you see ice shards called “Dragon Scales”).

Tequatl wasn’t flying across the continent. Hunting signs for him is only in Sparkfly.

And about them Dragon Shards, I was about to make a post regarding them…

Is this further proof that the Dragonbrand is spreading? There’s 7 crystals you hunt down that’re outside of the Dragonbrand, and 4 (arguably 5) aren’t exactly close to the Brand either.

I highly doubt it. First, because I’m sure they didn’t think of a lore reason to put them there, and second, because they have no corruption signs in the soil below them nor any sign of being an extension of The Dragonbrand in some way. I don’t think it’d be possible for just random spots of crystals sprout without a source to spread them; unless the Dragonbrand is somehow expanding only underground for some reason and it’s begining to surface in some places. My theory, however, is that they’re just random parts of the dragons that dropped off at some point while they were flying above the terrain, most likely after taking off injured (as might happen in some cases now). This doesn’t really seem to apply to Tequatl though since he goes underwater.

However, the little explanation we got as to why Tequatl is now so much stronger leaves me no shadow of doubt they are doing this all for mechanics and achievement points hunting rather than lore.

Parts of dragons was my first guess really. I just thought it was interesting how there were crystals in the corner of a map where the Shatterer doesn’t come close to visiting (or dying near).

And I was really, really sad that they basically said “Zhaitan wasn’t killed yet” and talk about invading Orr still.

As if the whole Living Story takes place sometime between Battle for Fort Trinity and The Source of Orr. Which basically redacts Matthew Medina’s statement that The Lost Shores takes place post-Zhaitan.

Well, there goes a huge lore opportunity to expand on the Elder Dragon, and how their death might effect their minions…

/sigh

I’m starting to think we should start a petition for them fixing the Living Story timeline. It’s not much of a LS when, going by the personal story timeline, all these events “magically” happened months ago for the character.

/faceplam

Would it really kill them to put a disclaimer on the Personal Story? Something like they did in gw1, with the non-native characters doing the beginner mission? I can totally understand their reasoning behind them trying to sync up the PS and LS, but in the end… it just wont work. The more LS they make, the more the timeline gets convoluted. The more the timeline gets convoluted; the harder it is to not form a paradox. If they have to jump through hoops to just make the story work, it ruins the story in the end, and it severely hobbles them creatively.

On a sarcastic side note, anyone want to take bets on if Halloween is pre or post death of Zhaitan?

Thanks for clearing that up Konig. I hadn’t done all the achievements yet, it just sounded like teq was the one who had left behind all the things we were looking for. Also I think the wording was open ended enough to not definitively Ziatan is alive or dead.

Halloween is obviously going to be about Scarlet trying take over the Lunatic Court XD

Yeah, to me the wording seemed to be “the Pact’s continued involvement in Orr could be to blame” This to me could fit the story anywhere between the end of the Battle for Claw Island (where they start creating Ft. Trinity in the background) and post-Zhaitan cleaning up his minions. I would say that this is all obviously post-Zhaitan, it is just worded as a way that it can be read as however the player wants to read it.

smekras.8203:

haven’t the devs said that Zhaitan is really dead?

Regarding the undead, dead doesn’t always mean “won’t get back up again” but rather “It has stopped moving for the time being.” The term normally used to signify a undead will no longer rise from the grave is “destroyed” because it normally takes the destruction of either its complete physical form or an magical object to prevent its return. Since Zhaitan is an undead dragon to begin with they could get away with saying “Yeah Zhaitan’s dead” and still be able to bring him back. Look at how many times something was proclaimed “dead” in horror movies only to return in a sequel or later in the movie due to it not being 100% destroyed.

Nothing says that Zhaitan is undead. Merely that he controls undead. My necromancer controls undead, but he is very much alive. His physical appearance doesn’t mean anything either, because we honestly don’t know anything about the physical characteristics of any elder dragon other than Zhaitan and a little about Kralkatorrik.

To be fair, Zhaitan was never really alive to begin with, being undead by his very nature.

Assuming of course, that Anet is using the traditional concept of undeath, which I think they are because Zhaitan’s minions specifically need to die before they can be “Risen” for service.
Edit: Should’ve read the second page s:

No, to be undead you have to have died, which in turn requires you to have lived. No one would call elementals undead, even though they were never really alive to begin with…

Didn’t Scott say in the Wartower interview that Zhaitan is dead in the Living Story?

So, anyone figured out what’s the point of us looking for those tooth/scale/shard?

Doesn’t seem to be one. There have been scavenger hunts that are really well tied into the story, but so far there isn’t one here. It would be easy too, just have an asura interested in studying dragon champion physiology or something…

Shiren.9532:

Didn’t Scott say in the Wartower interview that Zhaitan is dead in the Living Story?

I don’t recall that being said, but I might’ve zoned out periodically. Wish there was a transcription of those interviews.

Heinel.6548:

So, anyone figured out what’s the point of us looking for those tooth/scale/shard?

According to Bobby Stein in the LW forum… it’s helping Rox look for dragon clues.

Yeah, that makes sense. With the 0 context and able to do so before talking to her (and she’s not even after Claw/Shatterer)

I listened again. The inteviewer asks about the time line and Angel asks what confused her specifically. The interviewer mentions that she played since launch and that in her experience she defeated Zhaitan a long time ago but now she is dealing with Scarlet. Because the story intentionally avoided strictly dating itself, she became confused about the time line. This is where Scott stepped in and said Scarlet is on the same page as the player in the tie line. Zhaitan is defeated.

The Living Story is taking place after the defeat of Zhaitan. I listened to the interview several times while playing. I’m clear now, Zhaitan has fallen in the time line before Scarlet appeared.

As far as the tooth/scale/shards go, it’s the easiest way to “create content” for players to grind on their achievement point treadmills. Scavenger hunts are probably the fastest to produce content they can come up with. They wanted to pad the Tequatl update with something other than the dragon fight, so we got a scavenger hunt. As others have pointed out, the story or background of the hunt is done really poorly so it’s basically just padding to tide us over. I suspect the story of this update was an afterthought. Regardless of story reasons, Tequatl was getting revamp. They are fitting the story around the gameplay content this month.

From my understanding, all Scott really said was that “whereever the player is, Scarlet’s at that point” – meaning if the player has not defeated Zhaitan, Zhaitan lives. Which is no different than what was said before.

^Which is a really terrible perspective because it completely destroys timelines and we lore players love our timelines! I mean if this was GW1 and we had palawa joko playing games with us while we were chasing down Varesh, right now would Joko’s story have begun near the end? or when we were in Istan? I mean setting up a chain of events is the right way to go about things in my book. I understand it might mess things up for players who haven’t finished the game, which is why I personally don’t find the living story (as is) as the best overall choice for the game world. Either it falls short on character development, or it ruins parts of the story for those who haven’t seen it. It is a great idea, but it just isn’t made for this world as we have it now…

I’ll transcribe it for you. It’s at the 40 minute mark.

Angel: So I think that the timelines are not actually broken apart. Can you explain why you think that is?

Wartower: Maybe because it’s just the way I, because I started from the first day on playing Guild Wars 2 so it’s my personal experience of the timeline, so I defeated the dragon first and now I have this Scarlet problem as a player. So that’s why I was asking whether you consider that as to be simultaneous time lines or not?

Scott: Scarlet is definitely contemporary with the player. Zhaitan has been defeated. And I think that this was part of the structure both, I mean outside the game we have releases scheduled for every couple of years, but also the structure inside the game, we want to have a story that progresses, that doesn’t stay still. So we didn’t want to fight Zhaitan for 5 years. The overall threat, the world story is that of the dragons, the dragons are a threat to the entire world, the world needs to respond to that. The first dragon to rise was Zhaitan and Zhaitan was dealt with by the Pact. The threat of the dragons isn’t ended, but there is sort of this lull. Defeating Zhaitan took a lot of time, a lot of resources, a lot of people died. Before the Pact is ready to move onto the next dragon they need to regroup, they need to reorganise and they need to staff back up so they have a full contingent of troops. Like anything you can’t have a major war battle every week. You can’t fight a dragon every month of the story so we tried to find ways you can explore things related to the dragons, like Dragon Bash for an example, that would allow us to explore some of the smaller and more personal stories that we get to see with Marjory and Kasmeer or with Lord Faren and that’s where Scarlet falls. I would say Scarlet, she’s got a personality and the dragons to not. We see minions, we see dragon champions, but they’re all tied to the dragons and the dragons are themselves are this monolithic force of nature. Scarlet is very chatty, Scarlet has personality, Scarlet likes to interact with the people she’s attacking. So for the smaller scale more personal stories we are telling in the Living World that are tangentially connected to the dragons, Scarlet was a much better fit. But yeah, this is all happening at the same time the dragons are still out there, the world is still preparing for the next dragon to rise and how they are going to deal with it. But in the mean time there are other threats, there is the Molten Alliance, there is Scarlet, there’s all sorts of stuff.

It seems clear to me that the Living Story all takes place after the Personal Story. They intend it literally as filler between the major expansion-like content which will deal with the dragons (every two years apparently). The Living Story is a collection of side stories like the filler arcs from an anime. I find it strange that Scott said Zhaitan was the first to awaken and the world is waiting for the next dragon to rise. I know Kralkatorrik “awoke” and flew across the land creating the Brand and I assume Jormag has also awoken considering his corruption is spreading across the Shiverpeaks. I was also under the impression that Primordius awoke. I don’t understand what he means about this lull. I assume it’s something along the lines of “Zhaitan was more aggressive while the other dragons are somewhat passive… for now”.

I think he meant “Zhaitan was the first to make a massive attack” or it was just an utter slip – it happens.

I’m not sure where you get the “every two years” bit – but if so, then we’re stuck with Scarlet for another full year… ugh.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think he meant “Zhaitan was the first to make a massive attack” or it was just an utter slip – it happens.

I’m not sure where you get the “every two years” bit – but if so, then we’re stuck with Scarlet for another full year… ugh.

Scott: Scarlet is definitely contemporary with the player. Zhaitan has been defeated. And I think that this was part of the structure both, I mean outside the game we have releases scheduled for every couple of years, but also the structure inside the game, we want to have a story that progresses, that doesn’t stay still.

I think he’s saying that generally they don’t want to tell the big Zhaitan level stories all the time, that roughly they expect that kind of story and content will happen every two years, give or take, rather than having elder dragon plots back to back without a break. The rest of the comment goes on to talk about how the Living Story fills the time between the Elder Dragon plots rather than simply having “dead air” between expansion like content. Because they don’t want to tell elder dragon stories all the time, they have the Living Story which allows them to focus on other things.

I doubt we will see another year of Scarlet but I think it’s reasonable to expect up to another year of Living Story (it’s possible the Zephyrite connection to Glint and the recent Tequatl plot are a new story unrelated to Scarlet which will take the spotlight once Scarlet is dealt with, they are just foreshadowing early on) before the story directly focuses on another dragon.

I still don’t get where you got the “2 years” part from. The timeframe itself, that is.

Edit: Apparently I should read the bold. For some reason my brain registered that quote box as the same as the one of my post.

I think it’s a bit hopeful that Scarlet will be dealt with soon (I hope she is though… or at least managed to be made 10x more interesting), and for the next dragon to come within a year, but given what he said that does make sense.

Looking at this past year, the plots I see as possibilities go:

• Consortium antics
• Kiel’s captain council and investigation into Thaumanova (whatever comes out of the fractal research)
• Evon’s ties to Abaddon (if his wanting to research that is real, I doubt he’ll stop whatever intentions he has just because no fractal)
• Scarlet
• Zephyrites
• Tequatl upgrade
• SAB

So I suppose there’s plenty for them to go off of for the next year. And then some. And that’s JUST what we got from LS loose ends.

If we look at PS loose ends we got:

• Faolain
• Caudecus
• Malyck
• White Mantle (may or may not be t ied to Caudecus)
• Wizard’s Tower
• Tengu
• Foefire ghosts
• Renegades/Separatists/Peace Accords
• Jormag/Kralkatorrik/Mordremoth/DSD
• etc. etc.

And go back to GW1, got even more… So lets hope that we either get a large break from Scarlet after October, or we wrap her plot up soon (lol unlikely).

Zaithan is dead but somehow Tequatl got stronger. Bubbles? Zaithan released magic post death?

Tupi.2967:

Zaithan is dead but somehow Tequatl got stronger. Bubbles? Zaithan released magic post death?

All things decay after they die. In fact, most things decay after they are created. This is called Entropy. The natural process by which all things migrate towards stable forms. Elder Dragons, being highly organized and specifically structured entities, would possess very little Entropy and therefore would be most susceptible to decay once whatever processes created them and sustained them were ended. They are in an artificial state of non-decay while alive, which would only serve to hasten their decay after they died.

It is only right that those closest to them should be exposed to their decaying waste products (magical leakage) and be affected first. Teq the Funless is probably the first of his lieutenants to be altered, evolved into something greater. One has to wonder, however, if it wasn’t too great a leap forward. He appears to be more unbeatable than his master ever was. Only a few massive groups have persevered against him, whereas his master was destroyed by a handful of poorly organized and bickering individuals.

^Until next time when they finally give us the altered Dungeon where Zhaitan becomes the Elder Dragon we Deserve! I’m keeping up hope for it!

He’s not the Elder Dragon that we Deserve, but he is the Elder Dragon that we Need.

Lol, I hope that the Zhaitan we got wasn’t the Zhaitan we needed!

An Elder Dragon we can kill with a random 5-man group… Yep, seems legit.

To be fair there were other airships and other people on the ship. That said, when going into the fight you have that huge concept art of Zhaitan being the size of a mountain, then you go to the Zhaitan in game and it was not at all what I expected…

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If we look at PS loose ends we got:

• Faolain
• Caudecus
• Malyck
• White Mantle (may or may not be t ied to Caudecus)
• Wizard’s Tower
• Tengu
• Foefire ghosts
• Renegades/Separatists/Peace Accords
• Jormag/Kralkatorrik/Mordremoth/DSD
• etc. etc.

And go back to GW1, got even more… So lets hope that we either get a large break from Scarlet after October, or we wrap her plot up soon (lol unlikely).

I can live without a big focus on GW1 plots (it’s 250 years later, they want to reinvent their world and not be tied down to the human centric lore of the first game) but I think every single one of the lose threads from the ‘Personal Story’ you mentioned are far more interesting than the Living Story so far. I was disappointed when the Queen’s Jubilee had nothing to do with the Separatists, Ebonhawke or the charr treaty. I am dissapointed that the return to TA seems to center around Scarlet and not Faolain. Caudecus is a much more interesting villain than Scarlet. Even the general goals and motivations of the Flame Legion are easier to be invested in and understand.

The idea that Tequatl is getting stronger for some reason is one of the first interesting parts of the Living Story in my opinion. I really hope it has nothing to do with Scarlet or the Thaumanova Reactor. The other plot I thought was really interesting was the background plot of the Zephyrites. I don’t have an open mind about Scarlet any more, but Tequatl’s foreshadowing has potential, as does the Zephyrite link to Glint.

Narcemus.1348:

To be fair there were other airships and other people on the ship. That said, when going into the fight you have that huge concept art of Zhaitan being the size of a mountain, then you go to the Zhaitan in game and it was not at all what I expected…

Have you never paid attention to the damage output of your NPC companions? Abysmal does nothing to describe the problem. They die like mayflies, need to be revived mid-battle, and usually can’t hold their own against trash. Rytlock was totally underwhelming the first time (ok, second time, since the first was in the tutorial and he couldn’t be downed in that…) I fought beside him. I had to revive him five times because the TRIBUNE couldn’t fight off level 5 mobs. I think I wanted to vomit at his ineffectiveness. It really colored my preconceptions of him for the rest of the game. I blame ANet for that. It’s a game mechanic that keeps the player from relying on his NPCs to carry him through content, even though, he should be on par or only slightly better than those NPCs.

My guess is that it’s just technicalities. When you compare NPC’s that have been there since launch against newer ones, like Braham, you can see the difference. Also, it is intended to give us the idea that we’re heroes, and much stronger than a regular soldier.

In case of Destiny’s Edge, I do agree they’re more a burden than actual legendary heroes in battle though. In the end, makes it look more like we’re field paramedics than heroes. Hopefully will keep improving.

5. Anet added the new tequatl and didn’t include any back-story to save on development costs and leave you guessing under the guise of “mysteriously unexplained lore”

Invisty.6435:

5. Anet added the new tequatl and didn’t include any back-story to save on development costs and leave you guessing under the guise of “mysteriously unexplained lore”

That would of course work, if not for the fact that they have already confirmed that it is tied into the Living World and will be explained.