Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

Since the races sub-forums are long gone, I’d like to use this thread as a way to communicate with other fellow lore lovers, especially the ones who are fascinated by the Charr, their history, traditions and ways of surviving the harsh world of Tyria. ^^

So, what got you into the charrs? What do you love about them and how do you see the legions expanding in the future? Rytlock has already won a name for us as a race and I think we can only further on build on it.

Once seen as harbingers of destruction and death, a race that had the power to destroy their own gods, only to rise as saviors of Tyria and put forth the biggest hero of them all – Rytlock Brimstone.

Jump in, legionnaires and cubs alike, for the legion! \o/

I’ve received a bit of flack from charr fanatics in the past for saying that I think humans have the moral high ground over the Searing. The charr were looking to commit genocide on three nations using weapons of mass destruction for a slight that happened over a thousand years ago, and most modern charr still appear to be of the opinion that this is something to be proud of, regardless of the fallout that has caused up to the time of GW2.

However, I think these flaws serve to make the charr more interesting on the whole, on two levels:

First, because the flaws of charr are essentially the same as those of Tyrian humans, and in this way they serve as a kind of mirror to them. The charr are an aggressive, militaristic race that, in the past, conquered the territory of others and killed and/or enslaved the population… in this respect, they probably appeared similar to humans as humans appeared to the centaurs, tengu, and other races that have felt the brunt of human aggression. The charr performed the Searing over a centuries-old grudge: it took over two centuries for some humans to start shrugging the Searing off as ancient history that people should get over.

These flaws, however, go hand-in-hand with the strengths of both races. The flipside of holding a grudge is determination – where the norn or asura might be inclined to give up on a challenge or flee a powerful foe, it’ll be the humans or charr that will collectively stand up and do what it takes to win, or fight to the bitter end. The flipside of militarism is that the two probably have the most powerful and disciplined militaries of Tyria – without the humans and charr, the other races probably would not have the military might to stand against the threats posed to Tyria. These strengths and flaws are what have kept the two fighting against one another for centuries, but should full cooperation between the two be achieved, the results will be scary indeed for their foes.

Secondly, in recognising where the charr were two hundred and fifty years ago, you then realise just how far they’ve come since GW1. They’ve gone from being superstitious savages to being the most skilled engineers in Tyria (asura may have more advanced technology, but they rely on magic and appear to be difficult to mass-manufacture, where the charr find non-magical means of doing so wherever it’s practical). They’ve gone from being a race whose diplomacy only ever went further than “a neighbour we haven’t got around to conquering yet because we’re busy fighting someone else” to one of the races that has been showing the most willingness to look at the bigger picture and intervene in events outside of (and possibly even at the expense of) their own immediate interests. Sylvari have only been around for a few decades, while humans, asura, and norn have polished off some rough edges but are otherwise relatively unchanged. Charr have transformed, fighting against their inner nature every step of the way, and you have to respect them for that.

There are more details and subtleties that I’m skipping over along the way, but I hope I’ve got my point across. It’s not the chest-thumping aggression and military hardware that makes the charr interesting, although obviously they do have that. When you look past that, the charr are possibly one of the most nuanced of the races. They have their darker natures, but they’re fighting hard not to let those darker natures control them, and in succeeding they have achieved great things, and will likely continue to do so into the future.

I can’t claim to be a charr fanatic. Nearly four years into the game I’ve only just made my second charr, and my first one languishes mostly unplayed and not RP’d.

But that’s not out of dislike for the charr. I think they’re fascinating, well designed, and a well thought out culture as MMO races go. It comes from a few gameplay factors for me. My first charr, made at launch, is an elementalist. I should not have made ele one of my first professions, it turned me off of playing her early on because I didn’t know the game well enough to survive on an ele. Also she was made to be part of an RP warband. Since we didn’t have shared gchat at the time, and I was officer in an active RP guild, I didn’t go over to the warband chat so much. I couldn’t get a handle on RPing a slender little magic casting charr, either, not yet being steeped enough in the game. Plus despite my love for military SF, RPing a cog in a military machine doesn’t come naturally to me. I have never been part of or close to the military culture so it’s hard for me to authentically write a character that is. Also, I don’t like autumn lands. Ascalon is just too red and brown for me to enjoy hanging out in it.

And those tails. Man. I get motion sick from ceiling fans, spinning orbs, anything that pulls my eye in short jitters. If I can’t cover up the charr tail on the screen, my alt or anyone else’s, I start feeling ill.

But conceptually the charr are a fantastic mix of ancient Rome, Klingons, and Kzinti. There’s room in their culture for all sorts of personalities, though the norm is going to be a blunt spoken, assertive, get-the-job-done sort. I’m really glad they’re part of this game.

Im about all things Charr. I have 9 characters, one for each profession, and all of them are Charr.

I have a long-running tradition of always playing the Anthropomorph/“Furry” races in video games, so it was natural that I would go for Charr, however, I didn’t take to them immediately. Their hunched appearance originally really put me off, because it just looked awkward, so I was very nearly a human player, then in the weeks between the final beta/stress tests and GW2 launch, I read as much lore as I could on all the different races, and figured out humanity in GuildWars2 is basically just Victorian England with American accents, making the Charr unique, in comparison.

Normally, the anthropomorphic races in games are always tribal, bestial savages, because “animals”, so it was really refreshing to see a franchise had done something different with them, having made them them an industrial and technological outlier, in an otherwise traditional medieval fantasy world. I also love the military theme about them, which further strays from generic “animal people = disorganized savages” trope.

I also got drawn into the Charr quite quickly because I relate to a lot of Charr characters’ way of thinking/sense of humor. While other races would spend a few weeks milling and tribulation over the minor details of decisions, Charr are quite “Nah, just do it.” in a very “black and white thought process” way, which is something I very much like, and can identify with in a group of characters. I also find the Charr sense of humour hilarious, in the way a lot of them take the chance to crack jokes in situations most people would find concerning (An example being Smodur’s dialogue in ‘Plan of Attack’, or a lot of Pyre Fierceshot’s dialogue in GW1).

I love the Charr lore and storyline surrounding them, knowing that we’ve only scratched the surface with what we see in game. Just the thought of knowing that we’ve only seen one third of what this race has to offer is mind boggling, and exciting especially for me, since all of my characters are written as Ash Legion who are all part of the same company, under one Centurion, so its interesting to think that although the GW universe has so much to offer, the highlight of the story for my characters hasn’t come yet, because we haven’t seen the Ash Legion Homelands and their Citadel, and not even Malice Swordshadow has made an appearance in the story, leaving a colossal volume of things that could be added to the game and explored in lore, between the Ash and Blood legions.

Im pretty adamant that Bangar Ruinbringer is bound to show in the story at some point, because of Sohothin. I like to think its implied that Rytlock quickly climbed the legion ranking ladder to protect the secret of how he got the sword, because a higher ranking officer could theoretically order him to admit how he got it, meaning Bangar is the only person capable of forcing Rytlock, which would also explain why Rytlock left his warband behind “back east”, because he is probably avoiding the Imperator. Im hoping that if this turn of events actually occurs, it will usher in-game expansion for Blood Legion Homelands/Northern Ascalon.

There is a small horde of ways in which ArenaNet could expand the Charr race, only once if which ive taken the time to explain, which would give us lore/in-game locations for the Blood and Ash legions, so im hoping they don’t bundle it all into the obvious “Kralkatorrik themed expansion pack”, because it would have to mean those areas would be pretty small in comparison to the campaign-focused areas, where we’ll be fighting the Elder Dragon. Im hoping we receive an expansion dedicated to Kralktorrik and The Crystal Desert, then a seperate, non-dragon based expansion, centring around the areas to the North and East of Ascalon, so neither section of the game’s lore gets put as an afterthought.

winterchillz.2564:

Once seen as harbingers of destruction and death, a race that had the power to destroy their own gods, only to rise as saviors of Tyria and put forth the biggest hero of them all – Rytlock Brimstone.

The charr didn’t destroy their own gods. Humans did it – twice. But the charr like to omit that part of history.

Just like they like to omit the part where they conquered Ascalon and only lived in it for less than a generation before it got conquered by humans from them.

Despite the fact that individuals lived in Ascalon before them, and those that lived there after lived there longer (by about ten times the duration if not more), they still claim Ascalon as “rightfully theirs”.

I’m a fan of the charr, but truth be told… they’re liars and hypocrites when it comes to telling their history.

100% agree with Konig. Retaking Ascalon with the Searing always felt like they were like the little kid that rips the head of the action figure while wrestling it from others; they doomed most of the country with magic for over two centuries, just so they could take it back.

Petty.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The charr didn’t destroy their own gods. Humans did it – twice. But the charr like to omit that part of history.

Just like they like to omit the part where they conquered Ascalon and only lived in it for less than a generation before it got conquered by humans from them.

Despite the fact that individuals lived in Ascalon before them, and those that lived there after lived there longer (by about ten times the duration if not more), they still claim Ascalon as “rightfully theirs”.

I’m a fan of the charr, but truth be told… they’re liars and hypocrites when it comes to telling their history.

Or maybe they just lived for less than one generation in Ascalon after they reconquered it from previous “god chosen race” of divine invaders? Charr are natives for Tyria, Forgotten are not.

If I recall correctly, the timeline’s not conclusive one way or the other, right? The single generation thing is a possible interpretation of the vague phrasing in the Ecology of the Charr?

Rednik.3809:

Or maybe they just lived for less than one generation in Ascalon after they reconquered it from previous “god chosen race” of divine invaders? Charr are natives for Tyria, Forgotten are not.

Considering the fact that we know the Forgotten are an Elder Race that has been living in Tyria for at least 5,000+ years, it could be easily possible that, even while not native, they have been living on Tyria (and in and around Ascalon) long before the Charr race/culture evolved enough to form any type of society. That’s more than enough time to claim “native” status.

Erukk.1408:

Considering the fact that we know the Forgotten are an Elder Race that has been living in Tyria for at least 5,000+ years, it could be easily possible that, even while not native, they have been living on Tyria (and in and around Ascalon) long before the Charr race/culture evolved enough to form any type of society. That’s more than enough time to claim “native” status.

And yet, they are invaders, brought by human gods to establish control over Tyria, but failed. And after that fail, gods decided to intervene again and brought second “god chosen race” to try again.
I wonder how many real tyrian natives was slaughtered during first gods arrival.

Rednik.3809:

And yet, they are invaders, brought by human gods to establish control over Tyria, but failed. And after that fail, gods decided to intervene again and brought second “god chosen race” to try again.
I wonder how many real tyrian natives was slaughtered during first gods arrival.

And where is that information coming from? Because other than a few times were they had to actively defend themselves (against the EDs, Charr, and Turai Ossa) or if you desecrated major temple (Margonites), the Forgotten have been an overly peaceful race. There was no “conquering” or “establishing control over Tyria” with them.

Erukk.1408:

And where is that information coming from? Because other than a few times were they had to actively defend themselves (against the EDs, Charr, and Turai Ossa) or if you desecrated major temple (Margonites), the Forgotten have been an overly peaceful race. There was no “conquering” or “establishing control over Tyria” with them.

In the world with multiple sentient races you cannot spread all over Tyria by being peaceful. Though, I guess they probably repeated (or, to be more correct, did it first time) human invasion scenario, where gods initially gave them power, helped with initial push, and then left Tyria.

Rednik.3809:

In the world with multiple sentient races you cannot spread all over Tyria by being peaceful. Though, I guess they probably repeated (or, to be more correct, did it first time) human invasion scenario, where gods initially gave them power, helped with initial push, and then left Tyria.

Again, where are your sources on this? Because without them, this is all unsupported theory/headcanon on your part.

There’s nothing (reliable) that says the the Forgotten were brought to Tyria by the gods. The source on that was the discredited human creation myth that also held that the gods made Tyria and magic and claimed Glint was the first living thing. They did work with, and for, the gods while they were around, but that’s also true of the dwarves, possibly the Seers, and if Thruln can be trusted even that far, the jotun.

Erukk.1408:

Again, where are your sources on this? Because without them, this is all unsupported theory/headcanon on your part.

Because we don’t have even a single example of peaceful tyrian race that was able to spread out across whole Tyria like Forgotten did? This is pretty logical conclusion.

Rednik.3809:

This is pretty logical conclusion.

Yet, it’s still an unsupported one. So unless you have a citation or source backing it up, it still remains either theory or personal headcanon.

Rednik.3809:

Or maybe they just lived for less than one generation in Ascalon after they reconquered it from previous “god chosen race” of divine invaders? Charr are natives for Tyria, Forgotten are not.

I never said they conquered Ascalon from the Forgotten.

In fact, lore indicates the races who lived in Ascalon before the charr were the dwarves and grawl.

The Forgotten are only said to have lived in the Blazeridge Mountains – which the charr circumvented when they conquered Ascalon by conquering the lands now called Blood Legion Homelands before sweeping south into Ascalon.

Based off of:

No longer clamoring over the same territories, the unified Charr spread throughout the northern reaches of their homeland, and down into the lands east of the Shiverpeak Mountains. The Charr subjugated or destroyed any and all who dared defy them within their territories; they were masters of all they surveyed.

This line from The Ecology of the Charr which is basically saying that the charr spread north first, then south along the lands east of the Shiverpeak Mountains. Basically, they made an n movement in their conquering after being unified (by the Khan-Ur).

The inhabitants part comes from:

The grawl are native to Tyria, and Ascalon in particular. The earliest mention of them is found in early charr military tributes that predate the arrival of humans in the area. In these annals, the charr are always portrayed as victors with the defeated grawl pulling the charr commanders in great chariots. The charr dominated the grawl, forcing them into the Shiverpeak and Blazeridge Mountains and beyond, where they lived at a subsistence level.

From Planet of the Grawl

As well as:

“Somewhere in these depths rests the legendary Kathandrax’s Crusher. Kathandrax Steelsoul was a great Dwarven hero who repelled the Charr time and again. The Charr came to view Kathandrax with respect, and his weapon with fear.”

As stated by Swithin Nye – this dwarven hero that repelled the charr was buried in the now-called Blood Legion Homelands. Why?

Add in the fact that during Edge of Destiny, there’s an ancient dwarven village in southeast modern Ascalon…

Aaron Ansari.1604:

If I recall correctly, the timeline’s not conclusive one way or the other, right? The single generation thing is a possible interpretation of the vague phrasing in the Ecology of the Charr?

Not just the Ecology, but all lore around the Khan-Ur indicates that there was only one Khan-Ur, and it is made clear that it is because the Khan-Ur united the charr that they were able to conquer vast lands (as before the Khan-Ur, the charr were more focused on internal wars) and the humans were able to conquer Ascalon only because of the Khan-Ur’s death.

Erukk.1408:

Considering the fact that we know the Forgotten are an Elder Race that has been living in Tyria for at least 5,000+ years, it could be easily possible that, even while not native, they have been living on Tyria (and in and around Ascalon) long before the Charr race/culture evolved enough to form any type of society. That’s more than enough time to claim “native” status.

As far as we know, they still arrived on the world in 1769 AE. Hardly 5,000+ years ago. More like 3,000+.

But again: it’s never actually said the charr conquered lands held by the Forgotten. In fact, the statements by the Ecology of the Charr indicate that the charr only began to conquer lands after the Forgotten pulled back.

Rednik.3809:

And yet, they are invaders, brought by human gods to establish control over Tyria, but failed. And after that fail, gods decided to intervene again and brought second “god chosen race” to try again.
I wonder how many real tyrian natives was slaughtered during first gods arrival.

Uhh…

The Forgotten didn’t fail until long after humanity was brought to the world. And neither human nor Forgotten were brought by the Six Gods as invaders – humans did act that way, but no indication the Forgotten did. In fact, the Forgotten pulled back from the world because of humans ruining kitten.

Plus, keep in mind that without the Forgotten most Tyrian natives would have been wiped out by the Elder Dragons – it is because of the Forgotten that Glint had hid the races, after all.

Rednik.3809:

In the world with multiple sentient races you cannot spread all over Tyria by being peaceful. Though, I guess they probably repeated (or, to be more correct, did it first time) human invasion scenario, where gods initially gave them power, helped with initial push, and then left Tyria.

I disagree with this.

The Forgotten arrived in the world at a time of utter chaos. The Elder Dragons were reigning and wiping out civilizations. Then in come the Forgotten, who free Glint, and hide the races from the Elder Dragons.

It’s very probable that the Forgotten were one of the most well off races after the Elder Dragons went back to sleep, and were able to spread themselves not out of conquest, but because they were helping the other races get back on their feet.

Everything we know about the Forgotten from GW1 screams “a race that does not invade and conquer” but instead “has a military only for defense reasons”. And everything we know about them from GW2 screams “a race that taught, not conquered, others”.

I mean, hell, they were well established across all known Tyria and when humanity began conquering, rather than wage millenia long war with humanity, they went into the Crystal Desert.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

There’s nothing (reliable) that says the the Forgotten were brought to Tyria by the gods. The source on that was the discredited human creation myth that also held that the gods made Tyria and magic and claimed Glint was the first living thing. They did work with, and for, the gods while they were around, but that’s also true of the dwarves, possibly the Seers, and if Thruln can be trusted even that far, the jotun.

There is reason to believe that their original statement of origins is true as of Season 2.

Plus, there’s the whole fact that in Nightfall the Forgotten talked about how they served the Six Gods for thousands of years.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

If I recall correctly, the timeline’s not conclusive one way or the other, right? The single generation thing is a possible interpretation of the vague phrasing in the Ecology of the Charr?

Not just the Ecology, but all lore around the Khan-Ur indicates that there was only one Khan-Ur, and it is made clear that it is because the Khan-Ur united the charr that they were able to conquer vast lands (as before the Khan-Ur, the charr were more focused on internal wars) and the humans were able to conquer Ascalon only because of the Khan-Ur’s death.

Mm… I don’t know if I’d go that far. ‘All lore’ that goes beyond a single sentence is the Ecology of the Charr, a paragraph in The Legions of the Charr, and a bit out of Ghosts of Ascalon. Between them, we have several mentions of ‘the last Khan-Ur’, and in Legions they make it pretty clear that ‘the Khan-Ur’ can refer to the rank instead of a person, even when it’s done through masculine pronouns. There’s enough to argue it either way, and no use in derailing this thread to do so. Maybe it ought to be tossed on the Q&A list?

EDIT: I’m standing by my point on the phrasing… but out of curiosity, I checked to see if there was a charr TowerTalk, and there is, and Scott McGough very clearly talks of the Khan-Ur as a single person. Consider my stance flipped.

A little OT on this, but… I always wondered, why did we attack the Forgotten in GW1, while attempting Ascension?

That always seemed weird to e, one moment you’re killing them and then after you Ascend, they’re friendly at Glint’s Lair. Wut?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As far as we know, they still arrived on the world in 1769 AE. Hardly 5,000+ years ago. More like 3,000+.

The last rise of the Elder Dragons was more than 3000 years ago wasn’kitten As one of the surviving races, I’m pretty sure that would put the Forgotten older than that.

Rhaegar.1203:

A little OT on this, but… I always wondered, why did we attack the Forgotten in GW1, while attempting Ascension?

That always seemed weird to e, one moment you’re killing them and then after you Ascend, they’re friendly at Glint’s Lair. Wut?

Basically, the long and short of it is that they’re the test takers, and the test is to surpass them.

They’re actively trying to prevent individuals from Ascending. Surprisingly, it wasn’t really explained well until Heart of Thorns, when Ruka says:

Ruka the Wanderer: I don’t know what you’ll find, but if I know the Forgotten, you’ll be tested before you’re allowed to proceed.

Ruka the Wanderer: Don’t be offended, it’s nothing personal: they never give anyone what they want without making them earn it.

Erukk.1408:

The last rise of the Elder Dragons was more than 3000 years ago wasn’kitten As one of the surviving races, I’m pretty sure that would put the Forgotten older than that.

Honestly, it’s unclear. The Durmand Priory claims that the last Elder Dragon rise was when the Giganticus Lupicus were wiped out.

However, we’re told that Glint has “3,000 years of memory” in S2, and that “3,000 years ago she was entrusted with taking care of the world” in Edge of Destiny.

In the Durmand Priory personal storyline, we’re told that the oldest dwarven ruins are “over 2,000 years old” – an odd way to say they’re over 10,000 years old, no?

And in GW1’s not-in-universe timeline given to us, and while thought contradicted via Arah explorable was un-contradicted in S2, we’re told the Forgotten arrived on the world in 1769 BE.

So while the Giganticus lupicus do seem to have been wiped out by the Elder Dragons, it seems that the most recent dragonrise before the current one was only 3,000 years ago. If so, this means we know the time of two previous dragonrises – ~10,000 BE and ~2,000 BE.

And one would guess that there may have been more Dragon rises between the extinction of lupicus and the previous Dragon rise, since waiting for 8,000 years to rise and then only waiting 3,000 seems weird, although one could explain that away due to the tampering of the Gods with the bloodstone.

Still though, isn’t there evidence pointing to the jotun having surviving multiple Dragon rises? If so, either there are more Dragon rises than we know of or the Jotun have an extremely looooooong history reaching back over 10,000 years.

Narcemus.1348:

Still though, isn’t there evidence pointing to the jotun having surviving multiple Dragon rises? If so, either there are more Dragon rises than we know of or the Jotun have an extremely looooooong history reaching back over 10,000 years.

Maybe for the Jotun that are around now, but that could have been possible for the more advanced society that the Jotun use to be. Espeically since they seemed to prefer to carve their history/legends/whatever deep into large runestones instead of items of less durability like paper, cloth, or leather like most people. As long as nothing catastrophic happens to them, those runestones can last for thousands of years.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

winterchillz.2564:

Once seen as harbingers of destruction and death, a race that had the power to destroy their own gods, only to rise as saviors of Tyria and put forth the biggest hero of them all – Rytlock Brimstone.

The charr didn’t destroy their own gods. Humans did it – twice. But the charr like to omit that part of history.

To be fair, Pyre Fierceshot was involved in killing the Destroyers. And there was a charr involved in dismembering the titans… and Pyre might also have been involved in killing the titan in the Burning Forest.

However, in both cases it was humans doing the proverbial heavy lifting, and the charr probably could have only heard about the stuff in the Realm of Torment if a human had told them…

Rednik.3809:

In the world with multiple sentient races you cannot spread all over Tyria by being peaceful. Though, I guess they probably repeated (or, to be more correct, did it first time) human invasion scenario, where gods initially gave them power, helped with initial push, and then left Tyria.

You find asura spread pretty much throughout core Tyria, and there are no recorded asura wars of conquest since they emerged from the Depths. Now, the Inquest aren’t exactly typical, but it’s evidence you can expand without displacing others.

It’s more likely, though, as others have said, that the Forgotten spread so far because they were one of the few races in Tyria that maintained a civilisation after the last dragonrise. Other races would either have been devastated by the Elder Dragons, coming out of hiding along with the Forgotten, or not even present yet.

It’s also worth noting that we don’t actually know for sure that the charr are native. We presume they are, since there’s nothing that says otherwise and as far as we know they have no sponsors who could have brought them to Tyria. However, there’s no recorded history that we know of, from the charr or otherwise, that indicates they were around during the last rise. Could just be that they were omitted and that the records of the charr were destroyed along with whatever civilisation they had prior (if their previous civilisation was destroyed by dragons and they had no help from anyone else, it would explain why they regard powerful beings as enemies to be fought and destroyed), but it could also be that there’s another twist to be revealed in a part of history that hasn’t been filled in.

I think it would be neat to know Charr prehistory. Like, how old is the race, and if they existed during the last dragon rise, why do they seem to be the only civilised race doesn’t have any mention of it. Or if they didn’t get civilized until afterwards, what was that process like? All this assuming, as Drax mentioned, they’re native Tyrians. Which I assume they are.

It’s probably the best assumption, but…

In some ways, it might be more interesting if they weren’t. What if they were also native to the human homeworld, and their hatred of the gods comes from the early charr blaming the gods for losing their original homeland?

There actually are charr ancient history that mentions of the Elder Dragons as of Season 2.

I liked that they arent as the kahjit of elseweir where the female kahjit were just humans with tail and fut ad a catface.. Female charrs are fiece and dont look like stupid exotic dancers (unlike most other fame models. either exotic dancer or supermodel and 3,4 semi old faces.. ) Nah, the cahrr looked like fierce beats..Warriors, no time for stupit tifftaff.. Charr and asuras are great because they are different and different from the usually stupid the beast(male) and the model (female) design that 890% of fantasy race design everywhere else..

but hey, anet, great job kittening that up..

There’s multiple ways a thing can happen. For instance, instead of assuming that each territory was uninhabited by all but one major species, it may have been that the entire land was inhabited by scattered tribes of different species. If this is the case, conquering can still happen by any of the native species. And that conquering would most likely follow some geographical route as the politics, geography and military advantages and organization dictate.