Guild Wars 2

Hey everybody,

as an RP player, I just recently stumbled into a discussion about how the Charr deal with remaining human artifacts in Ascalon. Some people seem to think that they are into absolutely destroying all remnants of Ascalonian might they can find, while others (including me) tend to think that they just don’t care much about most of it, for as long that there is no threat to their control over Ascalon.

This is how I see it: The High Legions destroy many Ascalonian ruins in order to make room for their own architecture and use them for demolition testing. They also keep shattered relics like Stormcaller as a demonstration of their own triumph, but they are – mostly – no longer afraid of ancient human powers.

This is, imho, portrayed pretty well by letting the Durmand Priory dig for artifacts in Ascalon Catacombs and in Serenity Temple (without any known restriction by the High Legions).
We also know that Rytlock – eventhough he might not be the best argument, being far from a stereotypical Charr – gave the idol of Balthazar (which is incredibly powerful) to the Priory, as well as left Magdaer to the hands of Eir Stegalkin (which is actually pretty stupid to give away, due to the fact that it caused the Foefire).

How do you guys think about it?

I’m pretty much with you there. The only remaining ruin they claim to care about is the Great Northern Wall, and that’s for the stated purpose of building a highway to better conduct troops and machinery from southern to northern Ascalon. I think that Rin being (relatively) intact despite having sat next to the Black Citadel for the last two hundred years is also pretty telling.

Pyken Square also has priory researching it.

I don’t think the Charr actively demolish the ruins much at alll. See the BC which is based off a chunk of the great wall, and in plains of ashford you can see their construct scaffolding/chains holding a section of the wall in place. Some charr settlements have bits of ruins in them as well, or are built around/on them.

The only place you can encounter them actively bombarding ruins is a portion of the wall which the ghosts viciously guard AND try to rebuild. So it’s mostly keeping the ghosts occupied.

If you do one charr storyline, you inherit a chalice of Rin (possibly one of the last), and it’s a valued treasure. Flame legion may destroy or corrupt/steal relics, but I don’t think Iron legion at least does.

As for the foefire thing, Eir wouldn’t know the ritual.. and may be a one time thing. Also having both blades doubles the chance of the foefire’s closing ritual being able to get completed to banish the ghosts for good

Kalavier.1097:

As for the foefire thing, Eir wouldn’t know the ritual.. and may be a one time thing. Also having both blades doubles the chance of the foefire’s closing ritual being able to get completed to banish the ghosts for good

Would be a nice change, although it would also be a big overhaul. Unless they change the lore to something like: ghost still remain but from no one they won’t come back once they’ve been put down. Kinda like how in Orr even after Zhaitan the Risen remain.

Well, it’s doubtful it’d happen in the near future. Besides, it’s part legend for that. unsure how well it’s even known among charr or humans.

Rytlock isn’t too abnormal for a charr. He’s just on the more tolerant and reasonable side of the line. 3 generations ago when LA was being rebuilt the charr gave a bunch of holy relics to kryta as a gesture of good will. Unfortunately peace treaties were delayed when Cobiah Mariner hijacked the ship and sold them to a private collector. According to Sea of Sorrows.

When it comes to the ruins of Ascalon:

The Iron Legion believes, rightly or wrongly, that the Foefire ghosts are strengthened by the ruins, and that eradicating them entirely will stop them from manifesting or at least substantially weaken them. Whether this belief is correct or not, there is an orchestrated campaign to destroy the ruins of Ascalon, but this is done out of a principle of making the land safe® rather than being motivated by the destruction of human culture and history… or at least that’s what they claim.

Petrus Crimsonhack in Ligacus Notos is scavenging for relics to sell them to humans.

draxynnic.3719:

When it comes to the ruins of Ascalon:

The Iron Legion believes, rightly or wrongly, that the Foefire ghosts are strengthened by the ruins, and that eradicating them entirely will stop them from manifesting or at least substantially weaken them. Whether this belief is correct or not, there is an orchestrated campaign to destroy the ruins of Ascalon, but this is done out of a principle of making the land safe® rather than being motivated by the destruction of human culture and history… or at least that’s what they claim.

Wasn’t that only limited to specific parts of/things in the ruins? I remember the statues in the Ascalon City meta, but for the most part charr seem to have no problem existing alongside human structures.

The only place I truly remember that happening is in one section of the wall, which involved the ghosts actively trying to repair and rebuild the wall and ruins.

Kalavier.1097:

The only place I truly remember that happening is in one section of the wall, which involved the ghosts actively trying to repair and rebuild the wall and ruins.

And that particular stretch was being cleared for a highway, not on account of the ghosts.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

draxynnic.3719:

When it comes to the ruins of Ascalon:

The Iron Legion believes, rightly or wrongly, that the Foefire ghosts are strengthened by the ruins, and that eradicating them entirely will stop them from manifesting or at least substantially weaken them. Whether this belief is correct or not, there is an orchestrated campaign to destroy the ruins of Ascalon, but this is done out of a principle of making the land safe® rather than being motivated by the destruction of human culture and history… or at least that’s what they claim.

Wasn’t that only limited to specific parts of/things in the ruins? I remember the statues in the Ascalon City meta, but for the most part charr seem to have no problem existing alongside human structures.

It’s also related to the heart at Barradin’s former estate, and may be elsewhere as well that I can’t recall.

Given that it’s being done for practical rather than ideological reasons, it’s probably something they only care about in areas where the ghosts are particularly active. If there’s no ghost problem in an area, there’s no need.

I was a little disappointed to find that they didn’t explore the ruins more. Ruins like Grendich Courthouse and Serentiy Temple were clearly recognizable and were nostalgic even, but many locations like Piken Square were just vaguely similar ruins filled with ghosts. Worst of all, some were just missing or plain wrong. There’s hardly any ruins for Ashford Abbey, King’s Watch just doesn’t exist anymore apparently, and the entrance to the catacombs isn’t even one of the two that existed in GW1, not to mention that the inside of the catacombs is completely different and much less impressive than in GW1.

King’s Watch is off the explorable map, but yeah, I’m really disappointed they didn’t put in Surmia or Drascir.

narwhalsbend.7059:

I was a little disappointed to find that they didn’t explore the ruins more. Ruins like Grendich Courthouse and Serentiy Temple were clearly recognizable and were nostalgic even, but many locations like Piken Square were just vaguely similar ruins filled with ghosts. Worst of all, some were just missing or plain wrong. There’s hardly any ruins for Ashford Abbey, King’s Watch just doesn’t exist anymore apparently, and the entrance to the catacombs isn’t even one of the two that existed in GW1, not to mention that the inside of the catacombs is completely different and much less impressive than in GW1.

Ashford Abbey was pretty destroyed in GW1 post searing. Not shocking that some places would get cleared out mostly by time or other factors.

Catacombs, well they were an expansive set of caves in the first game. Maybe the Ashford entrance collapsed, and they built another way into them.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

King’s Watch is off the explorable map, but yeah, I’m really disappointed they didn’t put in Surmia or Drascir.

Both are in the brand, just north of the shatterer fight.

Surmia would’ve been where Bria’s Manor is, and Drascir would be just east of the explorable Iron Marches. Neither of them have any sign remaining in GW2, though is suppose hypothetically it’d be possible to add Drascir in as a new area in IM, like they did with the guild puzzles.

Kalavier.1097:

Ashford Abbey was pretty destroyed in GW1 post searing. Not shocking that some places would get cleared out mostly by time or other factors.

Catacombs, well they were an expansive set of caves in the first game. Maybe the Ashford entrance collapsed, and they built another way into them.

There were two entrances. The one in Ashford Abbey and one north-east of the Barradin Estate. The one in Ashford was blocked in post-searing and the Barradin’s Estate entrance was inaccessible in post-searing.

In GW2 Ashford Abbey, the blocked doorway to the catacombs in open, but both the left and right entrances are missing. The area which should have the Barradin Estate entrance is instead a cave filled with flame legion, with no sign of a giant bridge or any gargoyles at all, like in pre-searing.

The only entrance that exists currently is located just east of the hill that was always full of bandits in pre-searing. There was never anything there in either pre- or post-searing, yet there are old ascalonian ruins there now. Why would the game designers put the entrance to the catacombs here, when there are two perfectly usable entrances already?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Surmia would’ve been where Bria’s Manor is, and Drascir would be just east of the explorable Iron Marches. Neither of them have any sign remaining in GW2, though is suppose hypothetically it’d be possible to add Drascir in as a new area in IM, like they did with the guild puzzles.

http://zoom.it/TWLx#full This map is what I’m going off of. The historical moment of Surmia is in the brand, as is Drascir’s ruins. Course, I don’t recall seeing much of ruins for Surmia anyway in gw1…

narwhalsbend.7059:

Kalavier.1097:

Ashford Abbey was pretty destroyed in GW1 post searing. Not shocking that some places would get cleared out mostly by time or other factors.

Catacombs, well they were an expansive set of caves in the first game. Maybe the Ashford entrance collapsed, and they built another way into them.

There were two entrances. The one in Ashford Abbey and one north-east of the Barradin Estate. The one in Ashford was blocked in post-searing and the Barradin’s Estate entrance was inaccessible in post-searing.

In GW2 Ashford Abbey, the blocked doorway to the catacombs in open, but both the left and right entrances are missing. The area which should have the Barradin Estate entrance is instead a cave filled with flame legion, with no sign of a giant bridge or any gargoyles at all, like in pre-searing.

The only entrance that exists currently is located just east of the hill that was always full of bandits in pre-searing. There was never anything there in either pre- or post-searing, yet there are old ascalonian ruins there now. Why would the game designers put the entrance to the catacombs here, when there are two perfectly usable entrances already?

Unless the cave that held the bridge collasped?

Also, I’ll check it out next time I’m in Ashford, but fairly sure the one entrance is collapsed/blocked. The other side is holed up as well.

As I said, maybe they built a new entrance to the Catacombs from there during the years past GW1, maybe in response to damage from the original entrances.

I’m using the same map, actually. Go That Shaman! The Historical Monument, though, was just outside the walls of Drascir, for the Six know what reason. Surmia itself is just to the north of the outpost, and there were pretty extensive ruins- about as much left as Ascalon City, though spread over a somewhat larger area.

Kalavier.1097:

Unless the cave that held the bridge collasped?

Also, I’ll check it out next time I’m in Ashford, but fairly sure the one entrance is collapsed/blocked. The other side is holed up as well.

As I said, maybe they built a new entrance to the Catacombs from there during the years past GW1, maybe in response to damage from the original entrances.

In Ashford, the left entrance just seems to be missing. In pre-searing, you would turn left and go down stairs to the res shrine, then go right. In current Ashford it just goes straight left too far with walls on all sides and no sloping down where there should have been steps. The other side of the remains were made as if the right entrance never existed at all. Instead of being able to go around the building like you could in pre-searing, the building is built into the wall.

I suppose it is possible that they built another entrance, but why would they take the time to remove the rubble from the doorway to the catacombs, then turn around and choose a random spot to dig down until they found catacombs?

Maybe a battle dislodged the rubble. Or, what seems like it could be possible is that the new entrance is for a section of catacombs beneath Ascalon city, while Ashford’s doorway is to another set.

This is the Gw1 catacombs. http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/2/2d/The_Catacombs_map.jpg You can see Ashford Abbey from it.

This is GW2 catacombs, the center of the map is roughly directly below the heart of the foefire, at ascalon city. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/e/ef/Ascalonian_Catacombs_map.png

Certain rooms do end up being similar, but they are actually in separate underground regions. It wouldn’t shock me to hear this was another section of the catacombs we simply didn’t get to explore in pre-searing.

edit: I dont think the one side goes too far. But it does end in a cliff. Could’ve been cave in/damage blocked that side off. As for the other one, the building isn’t built into the wall. It just has two pillars on the front which make it look that way. If you go inside you can see remnants of the building walls which are separate from the walls of the room there.

I think it was at some stage explicitly stated that the Ascalonian Catacombs dungeon in GW2 was a different section to that explorable in GW1 – broadly speaking, it’s the section that was actually under the city, while the GW1 catacombs were off to the west.

It’s definitely been canon for a long time that the catacombs were always much larger than what we could find – it was the catacombs that Vatlaaw used to get past the Wall, after all, and there were no explorable entrance north of the Wall unless you count the underground area in Gwen’s Story.

draxynnic.3719:

I think it was at some stage explicitly stated that the Ascalonian Catacombs dungeon in GW2 was a different section to that explorable in GW1 – broadly speaking, it’s the section that was actually under the city, while the GW1 catacombs were off to the west.

It’s definitely been canon for a long time that the catacombs were always much larger than what we could find – it was the catacombs that Vatlaaw used to get past the Wall, after all, and there were no explorable entrance north of the Wall unless you count the underground area in Gwen’s Story.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Because while two rooms ARE similar, the geographical location is completely off (and Anet is good about that for other things, why would they change the catacombs?) and enough details are changed that it doesn’t exactly match.

Would be a neat thing though, if they busted the rockwall/cliff in the abbey ruins and opened the original catacombs section.

edit: Weirdly enough, it looks as if there is a statue of kormir within the catacombs, in the lovers crypt.
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