Guild Wars 2

So we all know that in the beginning Humans ruled Tyria… And with the loss of Ascalon and the Rise of the Elder Dragons… They`ve lost almost everything…

But this is my question… How is the distribution of power in Tyria now??? The Lore says that humans are doomed to disappear from Tyria, Why? Cuz they have only Kryta left? Well the Norn only have the Lodge and Sylvari only the Pale Tree and so on????

So how is power distributed among the races???

Lets discuss how the races of Tyria will survive.. If they have to or continue to strengthen their voice over the world!

PS: Sorry for the grammar im dutch =]

I’ll comment on the rest later, but:

The Lore says that humans are doomed to disappear from Tyria,

The lore says no such thing.

Some of the crueler members of other races have claimed it, either as a method of bullying humans or out of the unspoken hope that they’re going to be assuming the dominance humans once had. Humans would say, however, that they’ve been through tough times before, and this is another rough spot that they’ll get through. Word of Dev, also, is that the gods regard this as the “coming of age” period for humans where they’re left to stand on their own feet – that suggests that the gods think humans are capable of handling their problems, and also that the gods might step in if they thought that was no longer the case.

As the moral of the HotW story goes, defeat isn’t getting knocked down, but in failing to get back up again. Humans have taken a few hard knocks, but they haven’t given up on pulling themselves back onto their feet. It’s one of the things we’ve been given as a human strength, in fact – human history both before and after GW1 has involved a number of times where humanity has taken a hit and recovered, so as a culture they have a belief that they can recover from anything that’s more ingrained than the other races.

draxynnic.3719:

I’ll comment on the rest later, but:

The Lore says that humans are doomed to disappear from Tyria,

The lore says no such thing.

Some of the crueler members of other races have claimed it, either as a method of bullying humans or out of the unspoken hope that they’re going to be assuming the dominance humans once had. Humans would say, however, that they’ve been through tough times before, and this is another rough spot that they’ll get through. Word of Dev, also, is that the gods regard this as the “coming of age” period for humans where they’re left to stand on their own feet – that suggests that the gods think humans are capable of handling their problems, and also that the gods might step in if they thought that was no longer the case.

As the moral of the HotW story goes, defeat isn’t getting knocked down, but in failing to get back up again. Humans have taken a few hard knocks, but they haven’t given up on pulling themselves back onto their feet. It’s one of the things we’ve been given as a human strength, in fact – human history both before and after GW1 has involved a number of times where humanity has taken a hit and recovered, so as a culture they have a belief that they can recover from anything that’s more ingrained than the other races.

Well i guess your right , but that still doesnt say anything about how the the power is divided between the races

A lot of it depends on technology and birth rates, Sylvari and Charr reproduce the fastest I believe, while Charr rely more on technology and a disciplined military force, this would be their advantages

Sylvari I believe have the fastest growing population, in only 25 years they have come to rival the other 5 playable races in power, I could see them taking over Tyria if they wanted to in the long run (unless their one weak point the pale tree was destroyed as they don’t have another way to reproduce, unless we start brining in the story of malck or whatever his name was)

Norn rely on brute strength and personal fighting prowess, currently I believe if any major race used their full strength against them they would lose, not on a 1v1 basis but a disciplined army vs a bunch of champion hunters would be interesting.

Asura they have a good possibility of being the next rulers of tyria as well, but I think their greatest danger is themselves ex. Thurmanova reactor, uncategorized fractal, malfunctioning golems ex.1 23 4, using other asura as disposable materials I believe something along those lines is said here .

Humans, personally believe technology may be their best way to go as well, get those watch knights working properly and have their own golem like soldiers.

Um… that event really only indirectly touches on asura at all. It’s about a charr who has developed a way to contain the Ascalonian ghosts, with a touch of asura magitech enabling a small part of the process. Certainly nothing about using other asura as ‘disposable materials’, a practice only done by the Inquest. Asura may be callous towards their assistants and whatever accidents might happen to them, but that’s another issue entirely.

As to the OP, power is distributed roughly evenly among the five playable races. Each is able to exert control over the lands surrounding their capital, but not so far out that they begin conflicting with another’s sphere of influence. It’s impossible to quantify such things, of course, but a few general observations can be made.

Asura have no possibility of being the next rulers of Tyria (though I can see one as the next ruler’s able right hand). Asura can’t even rule asura. Squabbles between themselves aside, asuran culture is so noncohesive that each krewe ultimately functions as a political body apart. The Arcane Council wields power only in the sense that it has the most bullyboys, both in the sense of Peacemakers and Arcane Eye, but while this is ideal for maintaining order and staying top of the pile, it is useless as a tool of conquest. Bottom line, as much as asura like to talk about their race’s assured dominance, they don’t have the political or military apparatus to back it up. The one exception being the Inquest, and organization that, while promising at first, has since attracted any number of enemies, both within the asura and without, which ties their hands rather severely. Technologically, the asura are top dog, but while that allows them to make themselves useful it isn’t something that can be leveraged for control.

Charr are the second-biggest wildcard. From what we see already in-game, I would say they are the strongest race- well-disciplined army,culture experienced in conquest, very centralized power structure, technological innovation second only to the asura. In addition to all that, though, while we’ve seen most of what the other races have, the charr have at least as much again as we’ve already seen somewhere to the north and east, in the lands of Ash and Blood. Beyond the guess that they aren’t as technologically advanced, we can’t say much about these other assets, but seeing as what we’ve seen is already better than what the other races have to offer, I’d say that a charr nation under a Khan-Ur is the only form of monoracial dominance Tyria is likely to see.

Humans- can’t say much about them, too many ifs. If they manage to get back on their feet, if they can expunge governmental corruption and power plays, if they can decisively drive back the centaurs, if the other races then give them room to breath for a bit, then we shall see if they’re in any position to be a power again.

Norn- Lots of potential individually, but will never dominate anything but their own stories. Perhaps some could be good shock troops or mercenaries, but much like the asura, actual rule is out of their character. They’re also in a vulnerable situation similar to what the humans once were, in that a lot of their power and culture depends on the patronage of their guardian Spirits.

Sylvari- biggest wild card. As Infamous touched on, there are any number of scenarios where sylvari dominate the globe, but here it’s less ifs and more outright questions: How long will the Pale Tree maintain this exponential birthrate? Once it ends, will it end for good, or just slow? How many other trees are there? What are their birthrates? How successful will the Nightmare Court be in the long run? How long can a sylvari live? Will Trahearne ever find his emotions? The list goes on and on. Far too many unknowns, so like the humans, I’d say check back in another century or so.

EDIT: Also, one huge caveat for the humans- last we’d heard, and we have no reason to believe this has changed, a different human nation held an entire continent with an iron fist. So here’s another if: if the Dragon Empire has the will and the means to enter a colonial stage, the charr might have a very good fight on their hands.

Yes Sylvari produce fast… But! I think if the Humans really want to… They can win a war with them… But even before that will happen the other races will interfere and i dont even think the humans even want to do that… So i think the power is divided equally…

Humans have been driven back and were in decay but never give up

Asura… Theyre just a population of independend crews that will never work together…

Norn almost same as Asura but these mighty warriors are Solo to be legendary… although i think they have a bigger chance of uniting than Asura…

Charr… Well when they will start a war it will only be with the Humans and i dont even think they can reach them by crossing the Shiverpeaks…

And Sylvari… They are kind of the peacekeepers of Tyria… Theyll never start a war, they will do everything to stop it when one starts… And even when they want to they wont succeed

@Aaron Ansari.1604
next time you are in the area when the event starts listen to the dialogue there is an asura there talking to the charr asking him what kind of inventor is he not keeping expendable assistants around, that is where I was making that assumption from.

Ah, yes. Still, disregard for underlings’ safety and willingness to let others take the risks does not equate to viewing someone as “material”.

yeah. Charr at the moment pretty clearly have the upper hand in terms of presence, and power. Their culture is spreading.
Their technology is top notch. It should be noted that even Asuran is not really above it. its an entirely different direction. magitech vs technology. the implications of that is hard to say. do Asurans actually understand physics and chemistry, or does alchemy cloud their understandings? is that even important in this magical world?
Regardless, tanks, submarines, motorcycles… Charr tech is pretty clearly more then a step above most other races. to the point its almost silly that any others are even a slight threat. including dragons and krait…

human wild cards. kryta is in bad shape. as the last human kingdom, even it is under major attack from krait and centaurs, and not doing so well.
But yeah. there are almost certainly human populations elsewhere. in general, the bazaar of the 4 winds, certainly has to be spending time SOMEWHERE.

Norn. Nomadic nature means they will almost never really be wiped out. they can just move someplace else. Same with their strong individualist nature. you can’t just wipe out a single Norn city, and think you ended them as a people. Their very nature is to spread out and mingle.

Asura are their own worst enemy as others noted. Heads in the clouds , too busy thinking of their own personal genius, to even consider some as simple as Skritt getting in the way.

Sylvari are kindof mary sueish a bit atm. Born with innate knowledge of the future, and full skillset. own worst enemy are other Sylvari that refuse to follow that determined destiny.
so either in the future, the tree is going to die, so that Sylvari do not have this magical upper hand with knowing the future, as well as having all the skills needed to fulfill it. Or the Sylvari themselves will just stop being born as the they have fulfilled their purpose of stopping the dragons.

Quaggan’s will obviously be the future kings.
Koda will probably survive the Jormag assault, and migrate to tropical areas. And build a new tropical polar bear island city. which will be pretty awesome.

Damash.1074:

draxynnic.3719:

I’ll comment on the rest later, but:

The Lore says that humans are doomed to disappear from Tyria,

The lore says no such thing.

Some of the crueler members of other races have claimed it, either as a method of bullying humans or out of the unspoken hope that they’re going to be assuming the dominance humans once had. Humans would say, however, that they’ve been through tough times before, and this is another rough spot that they’ll get through. Word of Dev, also, is that the gods regard this as the “coming of age” period for humans where they’re left to stand on their own feet – that suggests that the gods think humans are capable of handling their problems, and also that the gods might step in if they thought that was no longer the case.

As the moral of the HotW story goes, defeat isn’t getting knocked down, but in failing to get back up again. Humans have taken a few hard knocks, but they haven’t given up on pulling themselves back onto their feet. It’s one of the things we’ve been given as a human strength, in fact – human history both before and after GW1 has involved a number of times where humanity has taken a hit and recovered, so as a culture they have a belief that they can recover from anything that’s more ingrained than the other races.

Well i guess your right , but that still doesnt say anything about how the the power is divided between the races

Because that’s part of what I’ll comment on later. Still don’t have time for a detailed analysis, but to summarise: Of the playable races, charr are almost certainly the most powerful. Humans and asura are the next two – exact order is hard to say because they have very different forms of power. Then sylvari, then finally norn.

draxynnic.3719:

Damash.1074:

draxynnic.3719:

I’ll comment on the rest later, but:

The Lore says that humans are doomed to disappear from Tyria,

The lore says no such thing.

Some of the crueler members of other races have claimed it, either as a method of bullying humans or out of the unspoken hope that they’re going to be assuming the dominance humans once had. Humans would say, however, that they’ve been through tough times before, and this is another rough spot that they’ll get through. Word of Dev, also, is that the gods regard this as the “coming of age” period for humans where they’re left to stand on their own feet – that suggests that the gods think humans are capable of handling their problems, and also that the gods might step in if they thought that was no longer the case.

As the moral of the HotW story goes, defeat isn’t getting knocked down, but in failing to get back up again. Humans have taken a few hard knocks, but they haven’t given up on pulling themselves back onto their feet. It’s one of the things we’ve been given as a human strength, in fact – human history both before and after GW1 has involved a number of times where humanity has taken a hit and recovered, so as a culture they have a belief that they can recover from anything that’s more ingrained than the other races.

Well i guess your right , but that still doesnt say anything about how the the power is divided between the races

Because that’s part of what I’ll comment on later. Still don’t have time for a detailed analysis, but to summarise: Of the playable races, charr are almost certainly the most powerful. Humans and asura are the next two – exact order is hard to say because they have very different forms of power. Then sylvari, then finally norn.

I agree with this one. Charr is obvious. Even if Humans are in decay they still have some power in the world… Asura well they have a flying Pyramid and portals everywhere… The world need them and the others… Well i guess they just dont mind

Charr, for all ArenaNet claiming to want to keep the races on an even keel, are in at least the same state Tyrian humans were before the first Guild Wars broke out, and possibly better than anything Tyrian humans have beekittennce Doric’s time – they have what are effectively three nations in an alliance that, while not perfect, can probably be relied on to hold strong for the foreseeable future. This will probably become obvious once we see the full extent of charr territory. Each of these nations has a powerful military – my gut feeling is that Tyrian humans, if they didn’t have other problems, could probably defeat a single Legion, but at best they’d be matched by two and, as history has shown, can only hope to hang on to fortified positions against all three. Charr are also clearly the strongest in non-magical technology, but probably have less magic than the others (Flame Legion notwithstanding, of course).

Humans are the only other playable race that has a military tradition to match the charr, and have the distinction of having fought the charr to a standstill. They don’t have the technology of the charr or asura, but are catching up, and while subtle, there are indications that humans actually have greater intrinsic magical potential than asura (although the asura are better at making use of what they have). Mostly, though, it’s that the humans have the second most powerful military (behind the charr) and most well established military traditions – while this military is hard-pressed, it’s questionable whether any other race except the charr would have the ability to hold off the pressure Kryta is under and still hold the territory Kryta does.

Asura are a wild card, because they don’t hold power in the traditional means – their mastery of magical technology means they have the potential to be a powerful military force, but their general disunity stops them from actualising their potential. However, the small golem-backed military they do have means they can keep their holdings relatively secure, allowing their real engines of power to come into play – the ability to leverage influence through the value that other nations place on the technomagical goods and services they provide, and the threat that technomagic might present should the asura get annoyed enough at someone to use it offensively. If I had to commit, I’d probably say this puts asura higher on the scale than humans, but the very different forms of power makes them hard to directly measure against one another.

Sylvari come in fourth – in many ways, they’re like a younger and (currently) smaller reflection of human civilisation in the ways they exercise power. Haven’t had time to make as many enemies, but they don’t have the large and well-established military that humans have – in fact, when push comes to shove, the Wardens are probably on roughly the same level as the Peacekeepers, putting them definitely below both humans and asura. Considering their nature, though, this is probably subject to change over time as sylvari numbers increase, and as both sylvari and the Pale Tree develop their unique abilities.

Norn come in last because while individually impressive, the norn just don’t form a cohesive nation. They’re not really holding down territory beyond the outskirts of Hoelbrak – while they have homesteads dotted across the Shiverpeaks, the steads operate independently and do little to help one another or control the terrain around them. Most of the work keeping the Shiverpeaks relatively under control is undertaken by the Lionguard, the Durmand Priory, and the Pact – without the efforts of these outside organisations, it’s likely that by now Hoelbrak would be sandwiched between Jormag to the north and dredge to the south.

I’d agree with pretty much everything Drax said. The only remaining factor which may push humanity to the level of charr would be the way in which Cantha and Elona are handled. These countries could work to show that humanity is still very strong in the world of Tyria, or they could prove that humanity’s decline is everywhere. This all depends on how ArenaNet handles their unique situations.

Well, Elona is pretty much kittened right now as a source of human power, unless you count Joko as human, and/or Elona gets liberated when we get over there. Cantha is the real wild card there.

draxynnic.3719:

Well, Elona is pretty much kittened right now as a source of human power, unless you count Joko as human, and/or Elona gets liberated when we get over there. Cantha is the real wild card there.

we dont know about cantha, the reason we think theyre xenophobic is because of usoku, who would have died centuries ago, it may just be that we’re cut off due to EDs, or the emperor could be nice but the ministry of purity could have all the power and be using the emperor as a puppet or something, maybe he doesnt even know of the world outside his palace?

Usoku is not our only indicator. We know things were bad enough at the time of the rise of Orr- a century before GW2, and a century after Usoku’s reforms- that the Tengu left behind lands that in GW1’s time they were willing to fight to the bitter end to keep.

Personally, it is my hope that Usoku is still alive, a wizened immortal sitting on the throne of the most powerful nation to ever exist (while precedent shows that such a thing is within the realm of possibility in Tyria, I stress that there is no reason to believe that it has happened; this is simply my hopes for an intriguing Cantha).

I could have sworn I posted here last night…

Drax: Even if Elona is under a tyrant, it is still a human nation and another large human population base (unless Joko has done some major population culling to prevent uprisings). Plus, Joko is no more evil than some of the leaders that have controlled Kryta (Thorn I’m looking at you). So it is still, IMO, a plus to humanity’s ranking.

I would say Cantha is also likely a plus, but for all we know Cantha could turn out to be an enemy to Kryta, thus changing my opinion of them.

I think the Norns could be very powerfull if they would join together. Like the Nadir in Druss, The Legend or even the Mongols in real life.

I bet a livestock of beer that the one who will unite all Norn will be Braham, and he will shatter the tooth of Jormag .

@Getafix: That’s my whole point. After a century of noncommunication, Cantha now could be anything from a smoking crater to the most enlightened, egalitarian and diverse society on Tyria. We just don’t know.

@Narcemus: The point is that currently, whatever power Elona represents is effectively under Joko’s control, not human control. Regardless of what proportion of Elona’s population is of living humans, Elona’s power is Joko’s, not a human government.

Like I said, this might be changed if that political situation was altered, but right now Elona is as much human as the tunnels under Deldrimor during GW1’s time were dredge.

Norn dont only have hoelbrek, that’s just the main city. Sure they don’t have their home in the far shiverpeaks anymore, but I remember hearing somewhere ingame that there are other norn cities. Sylvari don’t only have the grove, it’s just they’re a new race and they’re rapidly expanding.

Humans on the other hand only have 2 major cities, connected by an asura gate, both are constantly under attack, and before the PCs came along, the humans were losing to the centaurs. So now, no humans are not in as much danger, but they were.

The only other thing the norn have that’s larger than a homestead is Cragstead, which is perhaps comparable to Beetletun. I’d be interested to see/hear your source for there being multiple cities- I’ve certainly never come across it.

Yes, humans only have two major cities- that’s one more than the asura, sylvari, or norn. Still, the number of population centers is only an approximate model of the races’ power. In the case of Divinity’s Reach and Ebonhawke, you’re seeing more of a vestige of past power than a current claim.

As far as the humans losing to the centaurs, that’s because they went into that war with both hands tied behind their back. The Ministry undercut the Seraph at every opportunity, both by the body’s indecisiveness and more directly treasonous actions by certain Ministers. Their performance is in no way reflective of their power.

Additionally, as of the end of the personal story, Kryta has the upper hand according to the interview in the last GuildMag magazine. The start of the personal story was essentially Kryta’s worst moment in the centaur war, and partially with the aid of the PCs, the centaurs have been put on the back hoof.

Regarding the norn – they have a lot of other settlements dotted across the Shiverpeaks, but there’s very little territory they control outside those homesteads. Kryta, by contrast, depending on the state of the map, controls most of Queensdale and up to roughly half each of Kessex, Gendarran, and the Hinterlands.

i remember being allies with the emperor and the royal guards back in guild wars 1, i also remember being against the ministry of purity while still being allied to the royal guards, if anet can pull this off when(if)ever they decide to release cantha, it’d be pretty awesome, and if they can get jackie chan to do a voice of a captain of the royal guards and have the captain’s uncle being a grumpy oracle, that’d be amazing, ooh ,one more thing, internet points for people who get that reference

Jackie Chan animated series…

I think one of the more interesting theories would be the civil war Cantha. Assuming they could go more into depth into the political intrigue and such. I felt disappointed at the lack of such in Kryta.