Guild Wars 2

Darek.1836:

Dang with that description I wish I lived in Cantha

And you eventually will, my friend.

There are no Samurais in Cantha. I don’t understand the obsession with making Cantha a Japanese ripoff when Tyrias has clearly not followed our historical path with the Mongols/Russia beings the pioneers of industrialization. The Tengu already fill the Samurai niche.

Second, a full human campaign is unlikely. Therefore, either Cantha will have relaxed its position, they will have the other races as slaves or the map will take us beyond the Canthan borders.

A Canthan expansion could have multiple races, some perhaps based in peripheral areas or ‘underground’ and secretive, with a personal story concerned with overcoming the Empire’s xenophobic position. Could be a big plot point to overcome in the effort to unify the races.

The Dredge were considered a pest that was very difficult for them to get rid of even during the GW1 timeline. The Kurziks weren’t exactly welcoming the little guys with open arms when they showed up in their forests.

So I won’t be in the least bit surprised if the molemen have managed to maintain some foothold in the Echovald Forest. They seem more stubborn than a Norn when it comes to leaving a place they’ve started calling home. Especially considering at their movement into Cantha was one of their first attempts at making a free state away from the Stone Summit.

They’ve always been based on communists since GW1, tbh- it was really apparent in Factions with Molenin and how they operated. Likewise, in GW1 (I can’t remember if it was all Prophecies, Factions, and Eye of the North or just Factions) they had a trophy drop called ‘The Dredge Manifesto’.

That was in Prophecies, during the Sorrow’s Furnace quest chain.

Narcemus.1348:

That was in Prophecies, during the Sorrow’s Furnace quest chain.

They were Dredge in GW1! kitten why did I uninstall GW1.

Mole race…bad eyes…enslaved by dwarves…gain freedom…run into big humanoids that probably look like giant dwarves…

I’d shoot too.

I think the Dredge are rabidly xenophobic because . . .
- The Stone Summit enslaved them with magic and forced them into manual labor. The Deldrimor Dwarves did not care about them, either, so there were no actual allies there.
- When they got loose after the events in Sorrow’s Furnace they at least in part tried running to Cantha. (Somehow…) and the Kurzicks told them to “go jump in the Jade Sea” pretty much.
- Later, they wound up north in the Far Shiverpeaks and were enslaved . . . again . . . by some people trying to unearth an old undead spellcaster.

During the time of Guild Wars 2:
- The Norn aren’t happy with the Dredge pretty much claiming anywhere they want to mine as “our lands”. The Norn would rather not have the Dredge mining operations disrupting everything, and besides . . . Norn are better. So tough luck Dredge!
- The Charr are almost as xenophobic as the Dredge when it comes to their homelands, just look how they treat the Ogres south of Ascalon City. And the Dredge claim places the Charr want to use for their own resources . . . so it’s a combination of “this is our land, not yours” and “that’s OUR ore to use”.

Beyond that, few races really deal with the Dredge on a large basis. The Inquest wants to use them like the Stone Summit did, only without the slavery and they’re okay with bartering off more advanced technology . . . but not in teaching Dredge how to make it. Humans don’t really rate on the Dredge radar besides “more outsiders!” and since the outsiders they’ve known so far mostly have been at the least “not allies” and at the most “out to get us” . . .

. . . again, can’t really blame the Dredge for pretty much lashing out at anyone they see who isn’t Dredge.

Except it was a group of humans that killed the Stone Summit Taskmasters and lead to the Dredge getting free. I mean in this process hundreds of dredge were killed at the players hands. And they didn’t do it to save the dredge, but to bring down the Stone Summit, but still..

Garenthal.1480:

Didn’t Arena Net claim they wanted to distance themselves from allowing lore to be driven by references to popular culture?

When did they say this? I’ve been playing this game for more than a month and I always thought the races to be strongly tied or influenced by pop culture races (real and mythical)/demographics, or certain time periods in human history similar to how races are in WoW.

Norn = Vikings/Norsemen
Humans = Medieval Europe
Sylvari = Elves/celtic lore
Asura = ?
Charr = Chinese? (basing on how your home instance is called a “Canton” plus the Charr’s industrialization)

Hylek = Aztecs (due to worship of the sun, names of Hylek characters, etc)
Tengu = Native Americans (due to how their regions are named, etc)
Grawl = Native Americas as well? (due to shamanism, etc)
Skritt = Ghettos
Ogre = ?
Quaggans = Mentally Challenged

They prefer to reference the Charr being roman. I personally see them as a concoction of Roman/Mongol/Industrial Era England.

Narcemus.1348:

They prefer to reference the Charr being roman. I personally see them as a concoction of Roman/Mongol/Industrial Era England.

Oh yeah.. you’re right – especially with the references to legions and such. +1 to you!

tengu are supposed to be asian inspired
but, i forget what the larger point of this topic is >.>
oh yeah, pop culture references
It’s true, they made this game more in itself referencing, since it has a whole 6 years of a previous game to go off of. But in that game, there was a much more comedic take on characters, so some of that seeps into GW2. I think when they say they want to leave out pop culture references, they mean things like Kilroy Stonekin (Leeroy Jenkins), and stuff of that nature.

The Charr social structure is more like Sparta’s, where the young are raised for the sole purpose of being fighters. Their pursual of technology doesn’t really fit with that very well, though, because technology often comes with a focus on scientific education at a young age.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I think the Dredge are rabidly xenophobic because . . .
- The Stone Summit enslaved them with magic and forced them into manual labor. The Deldrimor Dwarves did not care about them, either, so there were no actual allies there.
- When they got loose after the events in Sorrow’s Furnace they at least in part tried running to Cantha. (Somehow…) and the Kurzicks told them to “go jump in the Jade Sea” pretty much.
- Later, they wound up north in the Far Shiverpeaks and were enslaved . . . again . . . by some people trying to unearth an old undead spellcaster.

During the time of Guild Wars 2:
- The Norn aren’t happy with the Dredge pretty much claiming anywhere they want to mine as “our lands”. The Norn would rather not have the Dredge mining operations disrupting everything, and besides . . . Norn are better. So tough luck Dredge!
- The Charr are almost as xenophobic as the Dredge when it comes to their homelands, just look how they treat the Ogres south of Ascalon City. And the Dredge claim places the Charr want to use for their own resources . . . so it’s a combination of “this is our land, not yours” and “that’s OUR ore to use”.

Beyond that, few races really deal with the Dredge on a large basis. The Inquest wants to use them like the Stone Summit did, only without the slavery and they’re okay with bartering off more advanced technology . . . but not in teaching Dredge how to make it. Humans don’t really rate on the Dredge radar besides “more outsiders!” and since the outsiders they’ve known so far mostly have been at the least “not allies” and at the most “out to get us” . . .

. . . again, can’t really blame the Dredge for pretty much lashing out at anyone they see who isn’t Dredge.

Totally agree. I was really bothered when I started playing GW2 and discovered that the Tyrian Tengu were suddenly consistently allies (considering the only Tengu who didn’t attack humans on sight in GW1 were in Cantha), but we were still fighting the dredge. I am all for a storyline which lets us FINALLY give the dredge a good home, safe from people who want to kill/enslave them just because they’re there.

Zaxares.5419:

That’s exactly why I avoid attacking any Dredge Excavators I run across. They’re not bothering why, so why attack them?

Oh good, I’m not the only one who does that. :P

Terazeal.1976:

Wow. I thought the dredge were actually unique and interesting and it turns out that they’re simply another case of the game ripping off reality. Great.

Most culture in MMORPG lore is derived from research based in reality. I hope you don’t find this disappointing.

pyronix.4081:

Tengu = Native Americans (due to how their regions are named, etc)

Ummm…you may not realize that a Tengu is a Japanese mythical creature. They’re not even “asian-inspired,” but are particular to Japan’s mythology. So, yeah, not based on Native American culture and mythology.

Klawlyt.6507:

Kittentails?! Really?! Censorship is going too far.

The first time I heard one exclaim “For the Moletariat!” I almost spewed beer all over my monitor. Come on, having a race parody communist Russia is way cooler than naming quests after Bob Dylan songs, and I really like Bob Dylan.

They do a better job then Blizzard in this department at least. I still remember coming across Haris Pillton or w/e they named that blood elf. I personally love this kind of thing when added tastefully to a game, in regards to the Dredge I’d say very well done.

azureai.9764:

pyronix.4081:

Tengu = Native Americans (due to how their regions are named, etc)

Ummm…you may not realize that a Tengu is a Japanese mythical creature. They’re not even “asian-inspired,” but are particular to Japan’s mythology. So, yeah, not based on Native American culture and mythology.

Lol, and I thought I might be the only one who shouted that every time someone in GW1 opened their mouth.

pyronix.4081:

Garenthal.1480:

Didn’t Arena Net claim they wanted to distance themselves from allowing lore to be driven by references to popular culture?

When did they say this? I’ve been playing this game for more than a month and I always thought the races to be strongly tied or influenced by pop culture races (real and mythical)/demographics, or certain time periods in human history similar to how races are in WoW.

Norn = Vikings/Norsemen
Humans = Medieval Europe
Sylvari = Elves/celtic lore
Asura = ?
Charr = Chinese? (basing on how your home instance is called a “Canton” plus the Charr’s industrialization)

Hylek = Aztecs (due to worship of the sun, names of Hylek characters, etc)
Tengu = Native Americans (due to how their regions are named, etc)
Grawl = Native Americas as well? (due to shamanism, etc)
Skritt = Ghettos
Ogre = ?
Quaggans = Mentally Challenged

Charr are more native then Chinese. They’re warrior culture plus the dance screams native islanders, anything north of Aussie land yet south of Asia’s main body. Plus they used to worship fire/lava, sound Hawaiian to anyone else?

If anything I see the Asuran as being a distinct Asian culture. They work in krewes to get a single task completed and then split up. They value intelligence over everything, including social interaction. They see themselves above others, such that no race is better then them. Their also the most technologically evolved race.

The longer this conversation goes on, the more of a stretch it becomes. Yes, the dredge are rather caricatured in places, and someone had fun making terrible puns. They are one of the more light-hearted inclusions in GW2. But taking inspiration from the real world for fantasy races is not the same as pop culture references. If you look hard enough humans somewhere will have used almost any idea you come up with, and humans are the only example of a sentient, intelligent race with culture that we have to go on, so of course there are influences.

The fact is that most Guild Wars 2 races have a mixture of influences, meaning they are not direct ports of anything in history, but created out of lots of different historical examples that work well together. That’s why the charr aren’t exactly like the Romans, the Spartans, the Mongols or anyone else – but they do have bits of those cultures.

Also, speaking as someone from the South Pacific, though not of Pacific Island ancestry: “native” is not an ethnicity. I was very confused as to what you meant, and now I am vaguely insulted. Also also, saying that ‘Asians’ (as if it’s one thing) “value intelligence over everything, including social interaction” is an insulting, stereotyped generalisation.

Charr are culturally much more similar to the Mongols and Romans with industry than anything else.

I see the Asura being a society run and planned by mathematicians than any real world culture.

pyronix.4081:

Garenthal.1480:

Didn’t Arena Net claim they wanted to distance themselves from allowing lore to be driven by references to popular culture?

When did they say this? I’ve been playing this game for more than a month and I always thought the races to be strongly tied or influenced by pop culture races (real and mythical)/demographics, or certain time periods in human history similar to how races are in WoW.

What they meant is that they didn’t want the standard: humans/elves/dwarves/orcs/etc. setup that WoW, LotR and so many other fantasy stories use. That’s likely one of the reasons they ended the Dwarven storyline.

And to be honest, yes, there are some stereotypes to many of the races but no, they’re not carbon copies. The Norn are more than just Vikings, the Asura aren’t like WoW’s gnomes, and the Charr are definitely not orcs.

Raine Akrune.8416:

Charr are more native then Chinese. They’re warrior culture plus the dance screams native islanders, anything north of Aussie land yet south of Asia’s main body. Plus they used to worship fire/lava, sound Hawaiian to anyone else?

The dance the Charr do is the Hawka war dance use by the Maori, the natives to New Zealand, to intimidate. It’s really perfect for the aggressive, warlike Charr.

I’ve argued before that the Charr are truly reminicient of the Japanese: Forced to capitualte to a technologically superior foreign culture (Humans for the Charr, Comodore Perry of America for the Japanese); followed by a stuningly rapid improvement in technologies (or magic) and industrialization; then a rapid expansion into neighboring territories for resources to support that industrialization under the guise of traditional ownership.

But I’m sure a lot of historical comparisons can be made to the Charr or any other fantasy race ever made.