The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

in Lore

Posted by: Stephen.6312

Stephen.6312

Most players are familiar with the origin of the word wurm: “Historical English-speaking cultures have used the (now deprecated) terms worm, Wurm, or wyrm to describe carnivorous reptiles (“serpents”), and the related mythical beasts dragons.” In GW2 we have a number of species of wurm such as Jungle Wurms, Plains Wurms, Ice/Snow Wurms, Undersea/Undersea Ice Wurms – even Draithor’s Wurms. Could they be related to the Elder Dragons?

There is a possibility that they are. Posters have long-suspected that at least one wurm is associated with an Elder Dragon: The Great Jungle Wurm of Wychmire Swamp in Caledon Forest. Their suspicions may be confirmed. Colin Johanson and Meelad Sadat have recently revealed the existence of a polycephalous Jungle Wurm dwelling in the Bloodtide Coast and as we know, Zaithan was a polycephalous Elder Dragon who, much like the recently-awakened Jungle Wurm “Bloodtide” was disturbed by what could be described as an enormous “thumper” – that is, the collapse of Orr. Furthermore, all of the Elder Dragons have arisen from somewhere under or close to the ground and have a loose affiliation with elements associated with rock, both its formation and erosion. Finally, Primordus is probably the best example of what could be a form of wurm, since he may not have wings and seems to content himself with subterranean activities (for now at least). These similarities suggest that wurms and Elder Dragons share a common ancestor.

But is there really any reason to associate the Great Jungle Wurm of Wychmire Swamp with an Elder Dragon?

From the outset, trying to argue that wurms are anything more than distant relations of the Elder Dragons is problematic. Within GW2, no wurms can be encountered that are openly labeled as corrupted – that is to say that there are no “Risen” “Branded” “Icebrood” or “Destroyer” Wurms, even though wurms such as Ice Wurms (dwelling in the Far Shiverpeaks) and Undersea Wurms (dwelling in the Sea of Sorrows) live in the midst of Elder Dragon territory and Zaithan seems capable of corrupting armies of grubs, which also inhabit the ground. This could just be due to resource constraints though. Still, if there is no evidence to suggest that resource-constraints are the reason for this absence, maintaining that argument does nothing to clarify the situation. (For an example of a successful argument in favor of resource-constraints, consider that although models of corrupted centaurs are not encountered in-game, concept art depicts them. The point is simply that such an argument must be backed by evidence.)
Alternatively, it could be that wurms are naturally resistant to a number of things, including magic, as wurms in GW1 often had “natural resistance”.

The only perplexing (current) example of a “corrupted” wurm in GW2 is a “Nightmare Vine”. Most likely this is what was once a Maguuman Jungle Wurm. If it can be corrupted, surely other wurms can too? Isn’t this evidence in favor of a resource-constraint argument? I think that this is unlikely, primarily due to the nature of Nightmare “corruption”. Nightmare forces presently include sylvari, sylvan hounds, husks, vines and spiders; not all of these creatures are converted in the same way. Granted, they are converted through fear, but whereas sylvari may turn to Nightmare because they fear something in the Dream, sylvan hounds are (probably) turned for fear of cruel sylvari; in like manner, spiders and vines are probably tamed (in a similar way to how Ogre’s tame their pets).

Because Maguuman Jungle Wurms are tamed into Nightmare Vines, they are not corrupted “magically” in the same way as every other Elder Dragon minion. Thus, at a fundamental level, Nightmare “corruption” differs from Elder Dragon corruption. (Players may remember the example of Honor’s Voice: She was corrupted by a servant of Jormag using magic rather than violence per se. The manner of her turning is a perfect example of true Elder Dragon corruption at work.)

The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

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Posted by: Stephen.6312

Stephen.6312

Taming Jungle Wurms is risky business. Most likely wurms are reared from hatchling; mature Jungle Wurms are harder to manage. Once tamed into Nightmare Vines they spit black ichor. This is probably the main reason why the Great Jungle Wurm is not a Nightmare Vine – despite it’s description as such in the Wiki. For the Great Jungle Wurm behaves much like a number of other prominent mature wurms around Tyria, most notably the Champion Ice Wurms of the Shiverpeaks, the Champion Plains Wurms of Ascalon, Issormir and Champion Giant Sand Wurms of the Mists. But most importantly, it doesn’t spit black ichor (in contrast the newly introduced Toxic Wurms do; note that they have been tamed by a faction of the Nightmare Court).

What are we to make of the Summoned Husks and Nightmare Hounds present at the Great Jungle Wurm’s spawning, then? Traditionally, the prevailing view has been that the wurm “summons” them. However, the husks and hounds spawn much sooner than the wurm. In the sequence of events, the wurm is the last creature to emerge. If indeed the wurm was behind the spawning of the husks and the hounds it seems very unusual that the Inquest have never taken the time to rear one in, of all places, the Crucible Of Eternity. It isn’t as though they can’t – they have bases throughout the Maguuma Jungle, the Maguuman Jungle Wurms’ native habitat. (Still, one point in favor of associating Summoned Husks with Jungle Wurms is that wurms in GW1 commonly “dropped” husks when killed. Thus, husks may be the various shed skins of Jungle Wurms.)

Gamarien’s fear that a “much darker force” is behind the Battle For Wychmire Swamp is probably the strongest counter to the argument against associating the Great Jungle Wurm with Summoned Husks. After all, when Gamarien finally faces the wurm he describes it as an “abomination” which “holds no sway over” him. What could be darker than an abomination? However, Gamarien is mistaken if he believes that the darkness behind the Battle has been defeated with the demise of the Great Jungle Wurm. As he himself states, "I thought this would end it, but I still feel darkness and death in this place, even with the Great Wurm dead”. Clearly, something else is behind it.

Opinions will remain divided, of course, over the nature of the relationships between the antagonists in the Battle For Wychmire Swamp meta-event. It is not my intention to overturn the traditional interpretation of the meaning of this dynamic event.

Returning to the relationship between wurms and Elder Dragons: Although the evidence thus far is scant, nonetheless the possibility remains that wurms and Elder Dragons are related. The peculiar details of this relationship are yet to be revealed but I’m sure many players are as excited as I am about the upcoming content.

The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

kitten it, wrote up a nice response just to misclick and bam, it’s gone. sigh Anyways:

Chances of wurms in total being related to the Elder Dragons is actually incredibly slim, particularly because of the fact that they don’t corrupt anything and in GW1, there was the Chaos Wurm which came from the Mists (nothing Elder Dragon related is in the Mists except where Sons of Svanir are involved – at least proven thus far). About the multi-headed argument, this fails short because of hydras in GW1, which had three heads. And about the lack of corrupted wurms – I’d like to put my hand into the “not enough resources/time” argument as there are concept art of Icebrood Wurm by Kekai Kotaki out there.

About the means of corruption being different for Nightmare Courtiers “taming” their “pets” and how the Honor’s Voice was corrupted… that is a void argument. One of the key things about the Elder Dragons is that each Elder Dragon corrupts differently. And besides that, the Honor’s Voice was corrupted in a non-standard way for Jormag. If you compare the standard means of corruption for Jormag (corrupting willing volunteers or mentally coercing victims to agree before corrupting – only the Sons of Svanir/Sons-turned-intelligent-Icebrood (like Kodan’s Bane in that dungeon) corrupt forcibly) to the standard means of corruption for Primrodus (congealing rocks forming and turning alive in pools of lava), or to Zhaitan’s standard means of corruption (radiate magic to corpses until they’ve absorbed enough, which is near instantly when around a lot of Risen), or to Kralkatorrik’s (physical exposure to his corruptive breath), then not a single form of corruption matches. To argue that corruption-through-torture cannot be Elder Dragon corruption because it doesn’t match a non-standard means of another Elder Dragon’s corruption is a fully moot and baseless argument to be had.

To the Great Jungle Wurm not acting like Nightmare Vines/Toxic Vines – I’d chock this up towards “level mechanics” instead. Most of the wurms you’ve cited are less than lvl 30 (sans the Edge of the Mists one which we know very little about), and Twilight Arbor’s wurms at 55, and the Tower of Nightmares was 80.

About no wurms in CoE – I would argue this is because of three things: 1) They obtained their plant creatures from the Nightmare Court in Sparkfly Fen and Mount Maelstrom and said courtiers are a splinter faction (just as the Toxic Alliance courtiers are a splinter faction) so they may not have spiders and wurms. 2) The Crucible of Eternity hardly has burrow-friendly floors. 3) Not all Jungle Wurms would be corrupted, by the theory, so they couldn’t just grab a local one, and I doubt they’d be easily able to grab one in the Maguuma Jungle and ship it over to the Steamspur Mountains… though maybe.

In regards to Gamarien’s closing bit – fun fact: the Great Jungle Wurm never dies. When the event resets, unlike most world bosses that have the corpse remain and then just simply disappear, the Great Jungle Wurm wakes up and burrows back underground. So we never kill it. Ever. And Gamarien’s just wrong about the wurm being dead.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

Woah… Do you have a video of that last bit happening, Konig? Because if so, it may very well be that the Great Jungle Wurm IS actually part of the multi-headed Wurm in Bloodtide Coast that we’ll be fighting shortly.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Sadly, I do not. Just use one of the event timers and find one that’s near to reset, guest over and sit and watch.

I just noticed it randomly one time and was just “O.O NICE TOUCH ANET!”

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

I just want to hop in and say :
Stephen, ArenaNet should consider a job for you : a “Bard”

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

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Posted by: SirMoogie.9263

SirMoogie.9263

kitten it, wrote up a nice response just to misclick and bam, it’s gone. sigh .

Depending on browser, the Lazurus plugin will help you out here:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/lazarus-form-recovery/
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lazarus-form-recovery/loljledaigphbcpfhfmgopdkppkifgno

It can’t recover anything you wrote, obviously; just what you’ve written after installing it.

The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

If the Great Jungle Wurm of the swamp is just another head of the Great Jungle Wurm in Bloodtide Coast that might mean that the Wurm itself might be the missing jungle Elder Dragon…..

If so then we have a huge nuisance on our hands.

The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Wasn’t it just said to be three headed? And that it’s body size is just the size of the zone (yes, “just” that size)?

I doubt that the Great Jungle Wurm is the same wurm as the three new ancient jungle wurm.

However this trifecta of heads has me wondering if wurms grow multiple heads if they get old enough… or is this guy just a mutation?

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

The EDs and Wurms: Relations?

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Posted by: FlamingFoxx.1305

FlamingFoxx.1305

He ate the bloodstone (This is a joke)