Guild Wars 2

Lore is here and the Exalted are not mursaat but construct created by the Forgotten to be caretakers of Tyria.

Originally humans they turned in Exalted by the Forgotten after completing a trial. They are the legacy left behind by Glint and the Forgotten to secure a peaceful future.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-exalted-pure-dedication/

Reads like a fan-fiction.

The best fantasy settings have mystery and the unknown, Arena Net have been connecting everything even if it is not needed. We have humans and Glint yet again, where is the wonder when all the characters are always the same?

This just makes the world feel like a very small place. What next? Or main villain will be Traherne? Scarlet returns? More Glint?

Exalted seemed like a great addition till I read that piece.

As for it being the Mursaat city, it is a nice touch but could have been much more.

Really? There’s not enough mystery and unknown in the Guild Wars franchise? I heard some really weird comments on the lore, but that is just baffling.

EdwinLi.1284:

The Golden City we see is in fact the legendary Mursaat City Saul found mentioned in GW1.

That hasn’t been confirmed in the new Exalted lore article. In fact it says that the city was established by the Forgotten.

Vesuvius.9874:

EdwinLi.1284:

The Golden City we see is in fact the legendary Mursaat City Saul found mentioned in GW1.

That hasn’t been confirmed in the new Exalted lore article. In fact it says that the city was established by the Forgotten.

Sorry but that is my post before I edited it.

about 20 minutes ago I edited the post but the forums been extremely slow lately updating any editing by forum posters.

What I don’t understand is why they didn’t let us just figure this out in the game? Why did they have to write an article about it?

Under Glint’s instructions, roughly 300 years ago the Forgotten sought out human volunteers who shared their reverence for Glint’s dream of securing a peaceful future. After a rigorous set of tests and trials, the most worthy of these volunteers underwent a ritual that converted their bodies into pure magical energy which were then encased in golden metal armor. From this point forward, they were known as the Exalted.

What the kitten, ArenaNet. I really don’t see any good explanation for this. 300 years ago, the Forgotten had become a myth to most if not all of humanity. I wasn’t until the events of Prophecies that human civilization ran into them again (not counting Turai Ossa a few centuries before). So how is it that we never heard a word about this before? Sounds like another lore mess to me.

Edit: I’m also super annoyed by the fact that the Forgotten are now continuously presented as servants of Glint, where they were primarliy servants of the Six.

They are almost like these http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enchanted_armor

I wasn’t until the events of Prophecies that human civilization ran into them again (not counting Turai Ossa a few centuries before).

I don’t remember this line about human civilization. Do you have a source? Also, you believe Turai Ossa and his followers, but can’t believe that any others might have gone after. None at all?

And as mara pointed out, there eerily resemble Enchanted Armor.

I don’t understand how the Mursaat would just let the Forgotten start to build a city in what is essentially their territory (close to the Maguuma Bloodstone). I mean judging by the fact that the Forgotten worked for Glint, who in turn predicted the fall of the Mursaat, I would say they aren’t exactly on friendly terms. Not even counting the fact that the Mursaat actually went to war with another elder race (the seers) before, so it even has a precedent.
I already felt that the sudden Forgotten and Glint connection in LS2 was a little out of place. They were attached to Elona and the Crystal Desert in GW1, not Maguuma. That was more Mursaat territory. But having an entire forgotten-build city there seems a bit much.

Agroman.7190:

What the kitten, ArenaNet. I really don’t see any good explanation for this. 300 years ago, the Forgotten had become a myth to most if not all of humanity. I wasn’t until the events of Prophecies that human civilization ran into them again (not counting Turai Ossa a few centuries before). So how is it that we never heard a word about this before? Sounds like another lore mess to me.

Edit: I’m also super annoyed by the fact that the Forgotten are now continuously presented as servants of Glint, where they were primarliy servants of the Six.

Ah, how much did we hear about those massive magic-eating Dragons before the very end of Eye of the North? Why weren’t we told about those? We interacted multiple times with both Glint and Mursaat, both which knew very well that these Dragons existed, and yet they never said a thing about it. What is it with people and only wanting to have stories based on the very first installation ever released? Stories evolve, if they didn’t, we would have run out of stuff a very long time ago.

Turai Ossa wasn’t even aware of what the Forgotten were when he and his followers stumbled across them.

The Forgotten are called the Forgotten for a reason. They had been largely forgotten and turned into a myth of ancient times. It’s in the Prophecies manual. Sadly, I only have it in German so I cannot quote it adequately.

Edit: The last time that the dragons rose was over 10.000 years ago and deliberately kept a secret. That’s no comparison.

So a race of hidden lizard-men with very little actual influence over the world being forgotten is used as an argument that massive EXTREMELY strong and dangerous mountain-range sized Dragons (which multiple creatures we actually talk with have faced) were not talked about?

Feels like people have very different standards for different things here.

Agroman.7190:

Turai Ossa wasn’t even aware of what the Forgotten were when he and his followers stumbled across them.

The Forgotten are called the Forgotten for a reason. They had been largely forgotten and turned into a myth of ancient times. It’s in the Prophecies manual. Sadly, I only have it in German so I cannot quote it adequately.

Edit: The last time that the dragons rose was over 10.000 years ago and deliberately kept a secret. That’s no comparison.

It’s not impossible for humans that stumbled or even lived in the crystal desert to be selected by the forgotten to undergo these trials to become the exalted.

It’s not like they would need to have a big casting call go out to everyone in tyria.

Also, lordkrall is right to the point where stories evolve, new information is discovered causing what we thought to have known to maybe not be so.

Not to mention that there is no contradiction between the forgotten being largely myhtical and ..well.. forgotten, and still be able to find humans who were willing to undergo the ritual, and those humans that became exalted wouldn’t exactly go out and tell the world.

Agroman.7190:

Turai Ossa wasn’t even aware of what the Forgotten were when he and his followers stumbled across them.

But that’s not the point. If Turai Ossa was able to go into the desert and meet the Forgotten, why couldn’t others. Why couldn’t other humans that the Forgotten chose to take the trail?

If I had to guess the Forgotten may not have been discovered or mentioned because the Humans they chosen to become Exalted never returned to Human society so knowledge of the Forgotten never reached the outside world.

Of course those that did not pass the trial most likely died during the trials and a dead person can tell no tales after all.

On that note this may allow us to figure out what happened to Saul D’Alessio.

Maybe Saul found this city of Tarir and mistakened the Exalted as the Mursaat then went back to Kryta. After that returned to the Maguuma and as the lore stated he was unable to find the city again but he did find the Mursaat which he may have mistaken to be the Exalted.

lordkrall.7241:

So a race of hidden lizard-men with very little actual influence over the world being forgotten is used as an argument that massive EXTREMELY strong and dangerous mountain-range sized Dragons (which multiple creatures we actually talk with have faced) were not talked about?

Feels like people have very different standards for different things here.

Different standards indeed, if you really compare events that lore-wise are supposed to have happened just 50 years prior to GW:Prophecies to something that happened tens of thousands of years ago, before most of the dominant races of present day even lived upon Tyria and that left the planet pretty much wasted.

Concerning the rest – I’m not saying that it’s impossible that humans other than Turia Ossa and his followers came across the Forgotten before Prophecies. But the article states that the Forgotten explicitly searched for volunteers among the humans and that only the ‘most worthy’ were chosen. I don’t know what that sounds like to you, but to me it doesn’t sound like it’s supposed to be restricted to some unimportant, completely random group of humans that at some point met the Forgotten while travelling through the desert.

People still know about the Fall of Rome, but there is plenty of people that know nothing at all about of bunch of people living in the northern parts of Scandinavia for example.

The importance of a situation or creature is relevant to if it is talked about or not.

Agroman.7190:

I don’t know what that sounds like to you, but to me it doesn’t sound like it’s supposed to be restricted to some unimportant, completely random group of humans that at some point met the Forgotten while travelling through the desert.

Why wouldnt it. The crystal desert is one of the most hostile places in all of Tyria. Why wouldn’t the Forgotten use that as a basis?

Perhaps because it was, as far as we know, largely uninhabited by humans at that point.

@lordkrall:
You seemingly don’t realize that the previous dragon rise left Tyria in ruins and eradicated most life on the planet. The few races that survived this and kept the knowledge about it also kept it a secret. There isn’t even the slightest similarily in this.

Largely. There’s a difference between largely uninhabited and completely uninhabited. How many is ‘largely’ 90% 95% 99%? How many humans is 1%?

EDIT: Also, you say it is a lore mess, then follow it with as far as we know. Isn’t it logical that this information would be beyond the scope of your as far as we know?

What’s so special about the humans that they were the only ones chosen to become Exalted? Glint had an entire order of Dwarves at her disposal that were devoted to her and her ways. Why go so out of your way (by a whole continent) to abduct/manipulate groups of humans to go to Maguuma for your trials, their conversions, and city building?

Weird lore is weird. Let’s hope it makes more sense later on.

Agroman.7190:

You seemingly don’t realize that the previous dragon rise left Tyria in ruins and eradicated most life on the planet. The few races that survived this and kept the knowledge about it also kept it a secret. There isn’t even the slightest similarily in this.

But why would they? And why would that be all okay that they didn’t mention those massive threats, but there seems to be the worst thing ever that they didn’t mention these secret magical Warriors?

Erukk.1408:

What’s so special about the humans that they were the only ones chosen to become Exalted? Glint had an entire order of Dwarves at her disposal that were devoted to her and her ways. Why got so out of your way (by a whole continent) to abduct/manipulate groups of humans to go to Maguuma for your trials?

Weird lore is weird. Let’s hope it makes more sense later on.

I would guess because the Dwarves already had an anti-dragon mechanism?

lordkrall.7241:

But why would they? And why would that be all okay that they didn’t mention those massive threats, but there seems to be the worst thing ever that they didn’t mention these secret magical Warriors?

That isn’t the point here, is it? The point is that knowledge about it was lost. Which is a fact.

Plagiarised.2865:

Largely. There’s a difference between largely uninhabited and completely uninhabited. How many is ‘largely’ 90% 95% 99%? How many humans is 1%?

EDIT: Also, you say it is a lore mess, then follow it with as far as we know. Isn’t it logical that this information would be beyond the scope of your as far as we know?

The wording doesn’t sound like it was intended to be restricted to some desert people minority we never heard a word about before, which is why I assume that they didn’t waste a thought about the topic. And since it wouldn’t be the first time something is as sloppily added to previous lore as this, there is every right to be sceptical.

But that is how stories develop. No writer ever has every detail mapped out from the beginning. I have no doubt, this was not intended when that manuscript was written. But that is literally the method. The writers look back what they have given, find holes, and expand on them.

Tell me one thing added later that you cannot describe as sloppily added? Abaddon? Elder Dragons? Foefire?

Shiren.9532:

-snip-

Maybe the Forgotten had a reason not to choose the dwarves or themselves. I think you’re assumptions without knowing their reasoning.

Then again I’m looking at it from an in-universe perspective, and you seem to be looking at it from a real-world-writers perspective, asking why not use the characters already developed. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Agroman.7190:

That isn’t the point here, is it? The point is that knowledge about it was lost. Which is a fact.

So the knowledge, that existed in people that were PRESENT during the whole deal, was lost?

Clearly Glint at the very least had this knowledge.

Just gonna put this here; It’s from the “tarir city” post in HoT gen forum.

“EdwinLi.1284:
Well i have a hypothesis and this may allow us to figure out what happened to Saul D’Alessio.
Maybe Saul found this city of Tarir and mistakened the Exalted as the Mursaat. He went back to kryta tell the story of the golden city of Tarir and the Exalted. After that returned to the Maguuma and as the lore stated he was unable to find the city again but he did find the Mursaat. However, since both the Exalted had strong magical powers and both can fly Saul may have mistaken the Mursaat to be the Exalted believing the Mursaat were another form of Exalted.
Using Saul’s misunderstanding the Mursaat pretended to be the Exalted. This may also explain why Saul may have been taken away since Saul knows the location of the Exalted which serves Glint and the Mursaat were after all fighting against Glint’s flameseeker prophecies.”

Any of you lore masters know of anything that pokes holes in this theory?

EdwinLi.1284:

Lore is here and the Exalted are not mursaat but construct created by the Forgotten to be caretakers of Tyria.

Excuse me but….

CALLED IT.

But originally humans? Come on, that’s rather disappointing.

Aedelric.1287:

The best fantasy settings have mystery and the unknown, Arena Net have been connecting everything even if it is not needed. We have humans and Glint yet again, where is the wonder when all the characters are always the same?

It’s very obvious that ArenaNet are tying things into GW1 a lot with Heart of Thorns. And it’s also very obvious why – there were constant complaints about how GW2 doesn’t seem related to GW1 at all.

It was pretty obvious to me that the Exalted were going to be related to the Forgotten – Season 2’s finale made sure of that (the Forgotten seal).

But to say that Guild Wars has no mystery is ridiculous.

If anything, it has too many mysteries, and half of them are mysteries created by pure lack of information being told to players (e.g., mystery for players but not for characters – such as Mordremoth’s name) rather than it being a true mystery in the setting.

Agroman.7190:

Edit: I’m also super annoyed by the fact that the Forgotten are now continuously presented as servants of Glint, where they were primarliy servants of the Six.

Uh… you need to replay Prophecies.

Plagiarised.2865:

I wasn’t until the events of Prophecies that human civilization ran into them again (not counting Turai Ossa a few centuries before).

I don’t remember this line about human civilization. Do you have a source? Also, you believe Turai Ossa and his followers, but can’t believe that any others might have gone after. None at all?

I believe that Agroman refers to the dialogue of this quest. Though it doesn’t really state what he’s claiming.

Plagiarised.2865:

And as mara pointed out, there eerily resemble Enchanted Armor.

And people told me they didn’t.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I don’t understand how the Mursaat would just let the Forgotten start to build a city in what is essentially their territory (close to the Maguuma Bloodstone). I mean judging by the fact that the Forgotten worked for Glint, who in turn predicted the fall of the Mursaat, I would say they aren’t exactly on friendly terms. Not even counting the fact that the Mursaat actually went to war with another elder race (the seers) before, so it even has a precedent.
I already felt that the sudden Forgotten and Glint connection in LS2 was a little out of place. They were attached to Elona and the Crystal Desert in GW1, not Maguuma. That was more Mursaat territory. But having an entire forgotten-build city there seems a bit much.

Most likely happened after Prophecies’ events.

Anet likes to round things, so them rounding to “300 years” instead of saying “256 years” is understandable. Not desired, can be confusing to those who don’t remember their love of rounding, but understandable.

Agroman.7190:

Turai Ossa wasn’t even aware of what the Forgotten were when he and his followers stumbled across them.

Keep in mind that two groups of humans attempted to Ascend after Turai and before our PCs in GW1.

And we don’t know who they were.

It’s hinted that they were Ascalonians and the Seekers, but who are the Seekers? We still don’t know.

Agroman.7190:

Edit: The last time that the dragons rose was over 10.000 years ago and deliberately kept a secret. That’s no comparison.

10,000 BE according to the Priory’s best guesses. But evidence actually points to it being circa 2,000 BE.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Plagiarised.2865:

And as mara pointed out, there eerily resemble Enchanted Armor.

And people told me they didn’t.

Yeah, I remember that. People tend to try to warp lore to fit into what they want to see. They wanted mursaat, so they saw mursaat.

Ugh, the writers are utilizing Steven Moffat’s self-imporatnat style, but without actually explaining anything that came before it. Basically going “hey we are clever to switch things up with convoluted and cliche writing.” It’s already bad enough with the deus ex-machina sylvari and the Glint’s egg mcguffin. Here is another notch on that jump the scarlet nonsense. Also I hope this was not Glint’s only secret, because then the writers have already given it away before even the game launches.

Erukk.1408:

What’s so special about the humans that they were the only ones chosen to become Exalted? Glint had an entire order of Dwarves at her disposal that were devoted to her and her ways. Why go so out of your way (by a whole continent) to abduct/manipulate groups of humans to go to Maguuma for your trials, their conversions, and city building?

Weird lore is weird. Let’s hope it makes more sense later on.

Forgotten were followers of the Six Gods in large, while also curators of Glint. Humans were the only other race that were in large also followers of the Six Gods throughout history (though it’s known for naga, dwarves, and centaurs to follow one or more of the Six – Dwayna, Dwayna and Grenth, and Balthazar respectively). So it’s not so weird that humans were chosen. More so when humans weren’t around from the previous dragon rise.

Shiren.9532:

I don’t understand why they created the Exalted. What’s wrong with the mursaat, forgotten and seers?

None of those could really play a modern day allied role. The mursaat are villains, through and through, despite people trying to stick up for them; seers are pretty much extinct – the last member we knew of was last seen on an autopsy table overlooked by asura (thank you Zinn…); Forgotten have disappeared for as-of-yet unstated reasons.

Shiren.9532:

Doesn’t Glint already have the Brotherhood of the Dragon and the Zephyrites following her? Why did we need another faction that was created solely to serve her?

Brotherhood of the Dragon were due to turn to stone/die off with the return of the Dragons as prophecized. It wouldn’t be improbable to presume the prophet for that prophecy was in fact Glint.

As for the Zephyrites – they’re the spiritual successors of the Brotherhood of the Dragon, but who’s to say that the Zephyrites weren’t those tested, and those who didn’t succeed became known as the Zephyrites? After all “securing a peaceful future” matches what the Zephyrites are doing for themselves. Living in peace.

Shiren.9532:

It’s constantly portrayed now that the forgotten serve Glint rather than they were allies or liberators of her.

They were always depicted as curators, servants, and guardians of Glint. Rather than master-servant, it comes off to me more as mutual beneficiaries.

Shiren.9532:

Back to the exhalted – why? Why not simply have a handful of forgotten in Maguuma? Or some Brotherhood of the Dwarves that didn’t undergo the ritual?

The Forgotten were established as MIA. The Dwarves all underwent a different ritual – the Rite of the Great Dwarf.

Shiren.9532:

Especially a race that seems to have so much in common with another race of Maguuma – the mursaat.

Fun fact: Nothing actually stated that the mursaat were related to the Maguuma. Saul merely found a city in a forest. That’s the term used to describe the location: “the forest”. And there are many around Kryta.

Shiren.9532:

The exhaulted are only 300 years old – that dates them roughly 50 years older than the events of GW1. Why would Glint use humans? As others pointed out – she was noted as being forgotten to the humans, the dwarves on the other hand were not only familiar with her, but a faction of them served her at the time. Why not forgotten?

Anet loves to round. Remember in Edge of Destiny, Glint said that “300 years ago” the very humans she heralded as heroes against the mursaat came to kill her for finding out her history.

Shiren.9532:

Glint is a cool character but she is becoming a lot like Scarlet – seeping into lore and stories all over the place.

Glint is nothing like Scarlet, because unlike Scarlet, Glint is old, prophetic, and has reason to be doing all that she’s being connected to. She’s also flawed – something Scarlet wasn’t.

It would be more accurate to say Glint is becoming like Abaddon.

Zayd Akira.1942:

Just gonna put this here; It’s from the “tarir city” post in HoT gen forum.

“EdwinLi.1284:
Well i have a hypothesis and this may allow us to figure out what happened to Saul D’Alessio.
Maybe Saul found this city of Tarir and mistakened the Exalted as the Mursaat. He went back to kryta tell the story of the golden city of Tarir and the Exalted. After that returned to the Maguuma and as the lore stated he was unable to find the city again but he did find the Mursaat. However, since both the Exalted had strong magical powers and both can fly Saul may have mistaken the Mursaat to be the Exalted believing the Mursaat were another form of Exalted.
Using Saul’s misunderstanding the Mursaat pretended to be the Exalted. This may also explain why Saul may have been taken away since Saul knows the location of the Exalted which serves Glint and the Mursaat were after all fighting against Glint’s flameseeker prophecies.”

Any of you lore masters know of anything that pokes holes in this theory?

Honestly, it’s a pretty sound theory.

Works better than any other theory about Saul and the mursaat, in all honesty.

Shiren.9532:

I don’t understand why they created the Exalted. What’s wrong with the mursaat, forgotten and seers?

Doesn’t Glint already have the Brotherhood of the Dragon and the Zephyrites following her? Why did we need another faction that was created solely to serve her?

I’m also becoming confused by Glint’s story.

The seers, i am pretty sure, are extinct, the mursaat, well the war in kryta took a whole lot of them down, i believe it was only one known surviving member. The forgotten, no clue really, but they did have a hand in it, that’s something.

The brotherhood of the dragon, which were dwarves, are currently unavailable, due to the whole “turning into stone ritual to keep back primordus” as such, glint being a prophetic dragon, she may have known the purpose the dwarves would serve in the near future. The zephyrites were simply those to safeguard the precious cargo till it made it to the City of Tarir, and i dont think the transition from brotehrhood to zephyrites went smoothly enough to have them take care and look after the city, and fullfill it’s purposes (they do talk about a lot of raw magic uses to keep the city running) for 300 years (when the zephyrites didnt exist yet. So i can see why a new faction was created.

Shiren.9532:

Back to the exhalted – why? Why not simply have a handful of forgotten in Maguuma? Or some Brotherhood of the Dwarves that didn’t undergo the ritual? Why did we need an entirely new being that was never referenced before and had nothing to do with any of the Glint or Maguuma stuff in GW1? Especially a race that seems to have so much in common with another race of Maguuma – the mursaat. Maybe they are saving the maguuma reveal for raids (White Mantle resurrecting Lazarus/mursaat in the Spirit Vale using the Scepter of Orr?).

The exhaulted are only 300 years old – that dates them roughly 50 years older than the events of GW1. Why would Glint use humans? As others pointed out – she was noted as being forgotten to the humans, the dwarves on the other hand were not only familiar with her, but a faction of them served her at the time. Why not forgotten?

Glint is a cool character but she is becoming a lot like Scarlet – seeping into lore and stories all over the place.

Well we don’t know what happened to the forgotten between then and now, none has been spotted anywhere, do they still exist? Have they gone to the mists? Who knows.

Well, as i pointed out earlier, glint may have foreseen the prupose of the dwarves, the need for them to hold back and fight against primordus.

Stories evolve, new cogs are added to the machine. There were a lot of things not referenced in gw1, some things we were just not meant to know. (aka hadnt been come up with yet)

Wasn’t it speculated that the mursaat came from the isles of janthir? and the possible explanation someone here on the forums has given already isn’t half bad, it’s quite interesting really. We have one persons “memories”, a lot could have happened. Mursaat structures in gw1 didnt exactly have a nice golden look to them.

Maybe there is a reason why humans were chosen, certain elements about human physiology or aspects of the human mind that made them the perfect candidates to be transformed into the majestic custodians of Tarir.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Do you even know what dues ex machine means or refers to? Or mcguffin for that matter?

Sounds like you’re just spewing words without knowing what they mean, all for the sake of bashing. Which honestly just makes you sound like an idiot.

Dues ex machine, “God from the machine”, refers to when in Greek plays they would literally have a god appear out of thin air, with no reason for the god to appear, and fix all problems of the play and resolve the plot. The Glory of Tyria was the closest thing to a dues ex machine in GW2 because it was poorly established. The sylvari thing does not solve problems, does not resolve the plot, and does not appear out of thin air (if it did, there wouldn’t have been debates on the matter for three years).

A Mcguffin refers to an object served to drive a plot with no purpose other than the drive the plot forward – in other words, it’s something that’s not even needed for the main plot. Now, Glint’s Egg certainly resembles this, and this is poor writing on ArenaNet’s part, but if you actually dig into the plot then you find out that there is purpose to the egg beyond driving the plot forward.

And in all honesty, a mcguffin isn’t a bad thing in of itself.

The only part of your post that deserves any credit is the final sentence. If this is the whole “Glint’s legacy in the jungle” that was hinted at when HoT was revealed, then the potentially largest mystery of the game has been spoiled and shame on Anet.

So your opinions about some of the events with the Sylvari have been good quality writing in the game so far? I mean the things that happened with Traherne (especially with Caladbolg in his hands), Scarlet being a cartoon megalomaniac silver tongue technical genius, and the sylvari relations to mordremoth (one of the elder dragons being more power then the 6 “human gods”) is considered excellent writing?

As for the egg. Of course I don’t have high end faith that the egg is going to turn out to be a well rounded plot device. Considering inconsistencies that even happened in season 2 of the living story. You really think Arena Net is going to deliver a ground breaking story that rivals anything they have ever done before?

I’m sorry but you have been the one who have also pointed to many of these flaws before.

Sindex.9520:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Do you even know what dues ex machine means or refers to? Or mcguffin for that matter?

Sounds like you’re just spewing words without knowing what they mean, all for the sake of bashing. Which honestly just makes you sound like an idiot.

Dues ex machine, “God from the machine”, refers to when in Greek plays they would literally have a god appear out of thin air, with no reason for the god to appear, and fix all problems of the play and resolve the plot. The Glory of Tyria was the closest thing to a dues ex machine in GW2 because it was poorly established. The sylvari thing does not solve problems, does not resolve the plot, and does not appear out of thin air (if it did, there wouldn’t have been debates on the matter for three years).

A Mcguffin refers to an object served to drive a plot with no purpose other than the drive the plot forward – in other words, it’s something that’s not even needed for the main plot. Now, Glint’s Egg certainly resembles this, and this is poor writing on ArenaNet’s part, but if you actually dig into the plot then you find out that there is purpose to the egg beyond driving the plot forward.

And in all honesty, a mcguffin isn’t a bad thing in of itself.

The only part of your post that deserves any credit is the final sentence. If this is the whole “Glint’s legacy in the jungle” that was hinted at when HoT was revealed, then the potentially largest mystery of the game has been spoiled and shame on Anet.

So your opinions about some of the events with the Sylvari have been good quality writing in the game so far? I mean the things that happened with Traherne (especially with Caladbolg in his hands), Scarlet being a cartoon megalomaniac silver tongue technical genius, and the sylvari relations to mordremoth (one of the elder dragons being more power then the 6 “human gods”) is considered excellent writing?

As for the egg. Of course I don’t have high end faith that the egg is going to turn out to be a well rounded plot device. Considering inconsistencies that even happened in season 2 of the living story. You really think Arena Net is going to deliver a ground breaking story that rivals anything they have ever done before?

I’m sorry but you have been the one who have also pointed to many of these flaws before.

He never said anything about the quality of the story, just that your terms were misused.

Yeah, Sindex, you’re putting words into Konig’s mouth. As we all know, konig is one of the first people to criticize lore when appropriate. Plus, all Konig did was say you misused terms that quite frankly, people only seem to get from tvtropes.com. Come on, Konig even gives you examples of where in the lore those terms would apply!

Zelkovan.2630:

What I don’t understand is why they didn’t let us just figure this out in the game? Why did they have to write an article about it?

I feel the same.

Sindex.9520:

So your opinions about some of the events with the Sylvari have been good quality writing in the game so far? I mean the things that happened with Traherne (especially with Caladbolg in his hands), Scarlet being a cartoon megalomaniac silver tongue technical genius, and the sylvari relations to mordremoth (one of the elder dragons being more power then the 6 “human gods”) is considered excellent writing?

Well, it depends on which “some of the events” you refer to. But do take note that I never said there was good writing – just that none of it was a dues ex machina.

Trahearne was actually good writing. His fall point was in voice acting and lack of exposition (especially for non-sylvari PCs).

Scarlet was nothing but horrid writing, but nothing with her was a dues ex machina. Though the term mary sue is used a lot with her, it’s not an accurate term – villain sue is closer.

The sylvari relation to Mordremoth is bad in that ArenaNet made continuous contradictions between how sylvari function and how dragon minions – including mordrem – function. The relation itself is not bad. The reveal was bad and their attempt to hide it was bad. Whether or not the last critical piece of the “hero comes from the villain” trope is good or bad (that is, the reaction) has yet to be seen.

None of these are dues ex machinas, like you claimed.

Sindex.9520:

You really think Arena Net is going to deliver a ground breaking story that rivals anything they have ever done before?

No.

But I’m willing to be pleasantly surprised.

Sindex.9520:

I’m sorry but you have been the one who have also pointed to many of these flaws before.

I have pointed out flaws, yes. Many times, continuously.

But not those flaws because those flaws you “point out” are non-existent. And you overgeneralized what the flaw was, leaving it to be no better comment than “the story is bad”. Hence my question of “do you even know what you’re talking about?”

Again, I never said it was good writing, I merely said there was no dues ex machina and no mcguffin – in the sense you’re using.

Want a Dues ex Machina in GW2? Heart of Thorn’s Demo Story has it: Rytlock. THAT is a Dues ex Machina through and through. He’s gone, then he’s back and he knows what’s going on. Right.

And that is a quarter of the reason why I pray that story instance will not see any form of existence in the HoT storyline.

Want a McGuffin in GW2? While Glint’s Egg does come pretty close, a better one would be Magdaer. It was used to introduce the plot of the dungeons – the beginning of Destiny’s Edge’s reformation, and why we go out of our main plot’s way to put them together. But… whatever happened to it? It literally disappeared. It was also presented as a plot provider for the Ascalonian ghost situation… and abandoned in favor of a ritual that sends Rytlock into space-I mean the Mists.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Anet likes to round things, so them rounding to “300 years” instead of saying “256 years” is understandable. Not desired, can be confusing to those who don’t remember their love of rounding, but understandable.

Usually when they refere to GW1’s time they say 250 years. I mean it’s round enough. I can’t remember a single instance when GW1’s time was said to be 300 years ago.
But I do agree with you that it makes more sense that way. And I wouldn’t put it past them to write 300 when they ment 250, both Scott and Angel seem to be prone to little mistakes like that.

Edge of Destiny had Glint saying 300 years ago for when the Chosen tried to kill her. Presumed at first by folks to be a reference to the bonus mission, though there’s the potential that it was to be a future Beyond arc (Elona’s? Ascalon’s?) since she mention that they learned about her past.

Aah, I was expecting a topic like this. Always interesting to read all those theories. The general feeling I got after reading the blog post was something like “Oh, that does make sense.” It makes me want to explore the lore when HoT goes live.

I’m glad there is no link with the Mursaat, it felt weird to suddenly see them as a supporting race.

Konig I am going to concede on this one, because there is something you personally like about this latest article. Your personal opinion differs from mine, so I am going to leave it that. Instead getting into a war of words. Plus divulging into personal attacks is not entertaining for either of us.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Edge of Destiny had Glint saying 300 years ago for when the Chosen tried to kill her. Presumed at first by folks to be a reference to the bonus mission, though there’s the potential that it was to be a future Beyond arc (Elona’s? Ascalon’s?) since she mention that they learned about her past.

I went back and re-read it. Yeah she says 300 years, probably so it sounds more in line with her telling DE that she became Tyria’s guardian 3000 years ago. That blog post doesn’t need to be so “poetic”, but whatever, I guess you are right.

Mara.6782:

They are almost like these http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enchanted_armor

Yep pretty much. Just a very advanced version.
Not simple constructs but human souls encased in armor.
I am actually surprised how not bullkittenty the whole idea is lorewise.

Question: why does this golden city have the White Mantle symbol on its gate in the HoT trailer if it was made by the Forgotten and it’s not related to the Mursaat?

witcher.3197:

Question: why does this golden city have the White Mantle symbol on its gate in the HoT trailer if it was made by the Forgotten and it’s not related to the Mursaat?

Its not the White Mantle Symbol, its a different Symbol

Where were these folks when Glean needed protecting?

DarcShriek.5829:

Where were these folks when Glean needed protecting?

Sleeping/dormant/hibernating, apparently.

Sindex.9520:

Konig I am going to concede on this one, because there is something you personally like about this latest article. Your personal opinion differs from mine, so I am going to leave it that. Instead getting into a war of words. Plus divulging into personal attacks is not entertaining for either of us.

Once more, you’re putting words into my mouth – which, ironically, some would consider a personal attack.

I never said I liked anything about the article, in response to you. To be fair, I don’t really like anything about the article.

But I also don’t dislike anything – other than the unnecessary reveal before release – about it either.

But everything you said has no bearing on the article. You were bringing up unrelated writing, and then claimed I said said unrelated writing was good writing (which, again, I didn’t).

witcher.3197:

Question: why does this golden city have the White Mantle symbol on its gate in the HoT trailer if it was made by the Forgotten and it’s not related to the Mursaat?

While similar, those aren’t White Mantle symbols.