Guild Wars 2

There exists a “Great and Gorgeous Mesmer Collective”, of which Lady Kasmeer Meade is a member. When the veil surrounding Viathan Lake (later discovered to be concealing the Tower of Nightmares) was identified to be a mesmer illusion, the collective sent Lady Meade to investigate.

Certain extremely powerful Mesmer spells are known only to the most elder members of the Mesmer community, and are kept a secret from outsiders.
(takes from the wiki.)

I find this interesting. I wonder how old this “Organization” is, what powerful Mesmer spells they posses, and who are the elite members. I also wonder how and why Kasmeer was chosen to become a member. How powerful is Kasmeer, and is Countess Anise a member?….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mesmer_Collective

[tinfoilhat]

The Mesmer Collective WANTS you to THINK they exist as a form of reverse psychology so you actually believe they don’t exist when they do!!!!

#chemtrailsrlegit

[/tinfoilhat]

I could tell, you, but then I’d have to Confuse you.

We literally know next to nothing about it. That entry is really all we know of it, and the name is what Jory calls it not its actual known name. There’s really only two mentions of it ever – the casual mention by Marjory before the Tower of Nightmares was revealed, and in an interview with Angel McCoy in which she said that they wouldn’t want people to know the full capabilities of mesmers (to avoid paranoia and distrust of the magical field).

We’re right here

It would be so great if we got to see more of these. Some insight in the lore of the professions would be great.
It’s strange though how this group of extravagant flashy mages is so well hidden while the order of whispers is just standing around ever corner, saying hello to everyone who passes by and always wears their trademark uniform in broad daylight. Aaand what a shock it was to finally know that the real identity of the big order of whispers chief Spoilerwas a high-ranking member from the order of whispers!

This isn’t the first time we’ve seen a profession-specific organisation like this. There was also the Order, which was a guild of necromancers. We don’t hear anything about it after pre-Searing (I think?), which would mean either it stopped existing at some point between 1070 and 1072, or that it is exclusively for Ascalonian necromancers (I will say that Elementalist Aziure seems to be at least affiliated with the Order, but everyone else involved is a necromancer). We also have the Flaming Scepter Mages, who are comprised exclusively of elementalists, the assassin guild Obsidian Flame, and Shauben, who are all warriors. Each of these guilds are for humans, and specific to the nation that they are from (Ascalon, Cantha, Istan, respectively). So this sort of arrangement isn’t unusual. What is interesting is the way that Jory makes it seem like this “Mesmer Collective” is the organisation that mesmers belong to. Does that mean it could be multiracial? Rereading the Angel McCoy interview might be a worthwhile start; the discussion of magic seems to raise the question of what commonalities might exist between mesmers of different races.

I hope that this organisation is exclusive and deliberately mysterious. I’d be annoyed if it was played out that way and then it turns out my mesmer was a member the whole time. Players should have access to the same information as their characters in roleplaying games.

You do several quests for the necromancer order post searing, involving killing one pre-searing trainer, and attacking another (He escapes and forms a cult later. Verata).

The thing with order of whispers is, yeah you know their generic members… but they have people EVERYWHERE. In the other two orders, as bartenders, hell I came across one at the Seraph fort in north-west Gendarren fields, his job was to inspect the fort and see about improving the structures, and he was a whisper member.

IMO, Order of Whispers purposefully has a public front to throw people off. A Mesmer collective likely doesn’t have a public front, like the necromancer order didn’t really have a public face. OR it’s simply a gathering of mesmers, but otherwise has no real goals/objectives. So instead of having missions or objectives, it’s more like “Hey, this is weird. ask Bob who is in the area to check it out for us.”

The Mesmers have come so far since GW1!
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/21705316/run-mesmer-run_tshirt

~Milly

Tamias.7059:

There was also the Order, which was a guild of necromancers. We don’t hear anything about it after pre-Searing (I think?), which would mean either it stopped existing at some point between 1070 and 1072, or that it is exclusively for Ascalonian necromancers (I will say that Elementalist Aziure seems to be at least affiliated with the Order, but everyone else involved is a necromancer).

We have mention of it in two post-Searing quest chains – one around Oberan and the other around Verata. The Order likely survived in Kryta, since some of its members were going there.

This said, given that Aziure seems to be part of it, despite common belief long ago nothing actually says it is a guild of necromancers – let alone exclusive to Ascalonian necromancers.

Tamias.7059:

What is interesting is the way that Jory makes it seem like this “Mesmer Collective” is the organisation that mesmers belong to. Does that mean it could be multiracial? Rereading the Angel McCoy interview might be a worthwhile start; the discussion of magic seems to raise the question of what commonalities might exist between mesmers of different races.

I hope that this organisation is exclusive and deliberately mysterious. I’d be annoyed if it was played out that way and then it turns out my mesmer was a member the whole time. Players should have access to the same information as their characters in roleplaying games.

Honestly, the way it’s been presented – even by Marjory – makes it feel like it’s something unique to human mesmers, and at that certain mesmers. Marjory may only know of it because of her ties to Kasmeer and the Ministry (and Priory, and other detective contact affiliates).

Kalavier.1097:

You do several quests for the necromancer order post searing, involving killing one pre-searing trainer, and attacking another (He escapes and forms a cult later. Verata).

As said, “the Order” isn’t necessarily “the necromancer order”. For all we know, it could have been the Order of Whispers infiltrating Ascalon, since they always refer to themselves as “the Order” (they certainly have shared tendencies and goals). But most likely, it was just a discontinued story plot – there were many for Prophecies.

I suppose that Queen Jennah would probably be with them as well then

For all we know, the “order” of GW1 is the mesmer collective, or another branch.

Also, to expand on Order of Whispers, the members in GW1 all had the same uniform. Though their faces were always hidden. Seriously though, you find their members everywhere. I can across a lionguard that was a member, but I’d never suspect if I hadn’t been whispers and thus had the cord-word option.

Kalavier.1097:

Also, to expand on Order of Whispers, the members in GW1 all had the same uniform.

False.

And GW1 made it a point to say that those we meet are only those who wish themselves revealed because they’re footsoldiers against demons and we’re allied. Jurah said he has men linked to the Clanmarshals of Istan, but we never see any men drapped in red robes around there.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Kalavier.1097:

Also, to expand on Order of Whispers, the members in GW1 all had the same uniform.

False.

And GW1 made it a point to say that those we meet are only those who wish themselves revealed because they’re footsoldiers against demons and we’re allied. Jurah said he has men linked to the Clanmarshals of Istan, but we never see any men drapped in red robes around there.

What I was meaning was the ones we know about, forgive me for missing that guy because he was in the mission line I didn’t do as primary much of the time :P.

Likewise how in Gw2, the ones we plainly can see as any character in the order are the ones who are in uniform, while there are many NOT in the whispers uniform but part of the order.

Well we only know that Kasmeer is a member. I also have a theory that The Collective works in secret among the inhabitants of the continent of Tyria. I also want to pay attention to the title in quotes, “GREAT and GORGEOUS Mesmer Collective”….. I think it would be safe to assume this Organization, is made up of the Human race. Not to call, Charr, or Asura ugly lol, but I think it would be safe to assume if they have the likes of Kasmeer, then the rest of the members possibly could also be attractive humans.. maybeee norn or sylvari?…

Purecura.1795:

Well we only know that Kasmeer is a member. I also have a theory that The Collective works in secret among the inhabitants of the continent of Tyria. I also want to pay attention to the title in quotes, “GREAT and GORGEOUS Mesmer Collective”….. I think it would be safe to assume this Organization, is made up of the Human race. Not to call, Charr, or Asura ugly lol, but I think it would be safe to assume if they have the likes of Kasmeer, then the rest of the members possibly could also be attractive humans.. maybeee norn or sylvari?…

Do note said title comes from Marjory, not Kasmeer.

And it’s said in kinda a joking tone IIRC, as in Marjory poking fun at Mesmers being so pretty :P

Personally, I have a theory that it might be a front for the Shining Blade – there are some indications that ArenaNet had been thinking of the Shining Blade as a mesmer-heavy organisation (the Masquerade light set was originally described in concept art as Shining Blade armour…) and the two best-known mesmer NPCs outside of the biconics are, of course, Jennah and Anise. That’s not to say that Kasmeer is Shining Blade – the Blade may be manipulating her along with everyone else they manipulate – but I suspect that the Collective, whether by design or by infiltration, is now basically an arm of the Shining Blade.

I’m also inclined to think it’s a human organisation, or predominantly human-dominated. Asura and norn are too individualistic on the whole to be so organised, sylvari are new, and the charr-human truce is even newer (and the Collective doesn’t appear to be a Multi Racial Organisation that transcended the charr-human conflict in the way that the Order, Vigil, and Priory managed to).

Again, standard disclaimer – this is my inference, no hard information to this effect has been given.

Either ArenaNet dropped this not thinking it would turn into one of the biggest GW2 conspiracies yet, or they’ve deliberately done it to stir things up. However because of the fact the particular part where Marjory mentions this Mesmer Collective is not voice-acted, so we can’t know if she was being sarcastic or not.

Marjory’s exact words: “The Great and Gorgeous Mesmer Collective, or whatever they call themselves”

“Or whatever they call themselves” could be indicating its sarcasm, or she is simply disregarding them due to their (possibly) low prominence and visibility.

They Collective was formed because they didn’t think it was fair for one mesmer to dominate an entire army with the skill “Panic”.

The Mesmer Collective is just a magical shoehorn used to wedge Kasmeer into the Tower of Nightmares release.

Tanith.5264:

I could tell, you, but then I’d have to Confuse you.

The first rule of the Mesmer collective is …

Also, does the “great and gorgeous Mesmer collective” sound totally camp, or what?

I now have a desire to roll a Mesmer who dresses like a pimp and speaks with an effeminate, fake, upper class British accent.

Wanderer.3248:

Tanith.5264:

I could tell, you, but then I’d have to Confuse you.

The first rule of the Mesmer collective is …

Members must look fabulous at all times! (Even if it’s only an illusion.)

Shiren.9532:

The Mesmer Collective is just a magical shoehorn used to wedge Kasmeer into the Tower of Nightmares release.

Hardly. The two showed up because Marjory is a detective and the veil was a mystery to be solved. Detectives love mysteries – that’s why they do the job they do.

There wasn’t a need for a mesmer collective just to “wedge” Kasmeer and Marjory into that plot.

I’d rather know more about the Modus Sceleris

“Or whatever they call themselves”

Could indicate:

-They are an elite board of mesmers that tries to exert their authority over others. And Kasmeer is less than awed by them.

-Kasmeer isn’t a member but she was either commissioned or hired by them.

-They are big enough to be known about but too small to be the topic of any great conversation like the Orders or the Pact.

I’d guess they are in fact a human organization. A committee who sees themselves as responsible for regulating mesmer related things within human borders. I doubt they span across the other races since the other races mesmers can have such a drastically different background than humans.

The “Great and Gorgeous Mesmer Collective” is almost certainly going to contain Anise and Jennah. Add one or two other friends from court or the Shining Blade and you’ve already got enough for Marjory’s humorous description. There doesn’t need to be a hidden organization.

The mesmers at Jennah’s court are probably not taught their skills at school like the Asura. It is more likely to be personal instruction from elders. Put a few students and tutors together and you begins to have a collection of people with secret skills, but it isn’t a secret organization as such.

My pick is that Marjory was just being sardonic, and there is no real collective, as Stooperdale said.

Humans in GW1 did have a history of having magical academies. We don’t see any of them in-game, but we don’t see many regular schools ingame either – they might well still be there somewhere we don’t see.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This said, given that Aziure seems to be part of it, despite common belief long ago nothing actually says it is a guild of necromancers – let alone exclusive to Ascalonian necromancers.

Known necromancer members of the Order:

• Kasha Blackblood
• Oberan the Reviled
• Verata
• Morgan

Known non-necromancer members of the Order:

• Aziure

The Order being not only for necromancers is one explanation for Aziure’s membership, but given that every other single member we know is a necromancer, I think it’d be more sensible to treat her as an anomaly.

With such a small sample size, it’s impossible to say with certainty one way or the other, really. However:

“One of our Order, a promising Necromancer named Verata, has been experimenting with new ways to enhance and maintain summoned minions. […]”

If the Order was for necromancers primarily or solely (with one exception), then it seems weird to point out that Verata is a “promising Necromancer”. Why not “promising member” or just leaving that out entirely if the Order is for necromancers, thus implying that he would be a necromancer anyways.

It wouldn’t be the first time that there’d be redundancy surrounding those characters. We also have the necromancer Verata the Necromancer, and the necromancer Necromancer Morgan.

That’s… like saying “King Adelbern” is redundant because, hey, he’s a king so why bother putting king in the name?

Verata “the Necromancer” and “Necromancer” Morgan are titles of their profession. No different than Doctor Phillip or Mike the Janitor. Not a case of redundancy – not like what the above quoted line would be without removing implieds (per the idea that The Order is a Necromancer-only guild):

“One of our Necromancer Order, a promising Necromancer named Verata, […]”

Or for ultimate redundancy:

“A necromancer from our necromancer Order, a promising Necromancer named Verata the Necromancer, has been performing necromantic experiments on new ways to enhance and maintained summoned necromancer minions.”

Yeah… fun times.