The Mursaat
They were trying to keep the door shut because the Titans posed a threat to them… aka, they were killing innocent people for their own gains to protect their own people. I’m not really sure there is a clear good vs. evil line to draw there. But the Mursaat are definitely evil…
It’s what I loved about Guild Wars Prophecies, actually. In the end, running away from the charr, Ascalonians settled in Kryta, thanks to kindness of the White Mantle, but then afraid of them and the Mursaat, heroes joined forces with Khilbron, who pretended to be on their side, lead them to destroy the Mursaat, and used the players to release Titans.
In the end, it was THE PLAYERS who were the evil ones, unintentionally bringing destructive forces down on Tyria.
Or not, depending on one’s point of view, and how one likes to read the events, after all, we did save Tyria from Abaddon. But would he even POSE a threat if we didn’t help Khilbron in the first place?
It’s what was best – story could be told in many ways, always retaining the awesomeness.
I wish we would see similarly epic stories in Guild Wars 2, really.
Snip…
Yeah, when put in that perspective they are definitely not the “good” guys. But aren’t we all (societies/races/etc) only after our own self interest at the end of the day?
Snip…
Agreed, whole heartedly. I have never played the original, but I have been catching up on the lore. And i have to say, the lore and stories are AWESOME. Makes me wonder just what the heck is the deal with the living story.
Whether the mursaat were good or evil was a debate held for a while. Because we don’t know if their motives was “saving their own kitten” or “protecting Tyria – needs of the many over the lives of the few.” However, with Arah explorable we learn that in the previous ED rising, the mursaat had the best weapon against the Elder Dragons (their phasing out) but for still-unclear reasons, betrayed the other races, nearly committed genocide on the Seers, and then fled into the Mists to save their own kitten.
Them willingly killing others to escape a threat to themselves kind of removes the arguments for them being “needs of the many over the lives of the few” kind of individuals. Which, IMO, really downsized the quality of mursaat lore.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Meh, I never really saw the Mursaat as the good or “for the greater good” type, because that would imply a level of selflessness on their part. They were always evil, to me, in the sense they were selfish survivalists willing to do anything to protect themselves. Sure, they were trying to stop the release of the Titans into Tyria, but they were only doing that to protect themselves, not anyone else.
Can you blame them? I found that a very realistic and free of propaganda outlook on things on the side of Mursaat.
Every sane creature would care about survival of their species fist, and saying otherwise is pure bull kittenery. Mursaat simply chose pragmatism and over ideology, so would most of people.
And then, minions of evil Lichlord (that means US, players) killed them all to release untold evil on the world, and probably waking up Elder Dragons ages before the due time.
Pragmatism also states that they could have just phased out and left everyone behind. They didn’t have to commit genocide on another race condemning the rest of the races to likely death before leaving.
It’s what I loved about Guild Wars Prophecies, actually. In the end, running away from the charr, Ascalonians settled in Kryta, thanks to kindness of the White Mantle, but then afraid of them and the Mursaat, heroes joined forces with Khilbron, who pretended to be on their side, lead them to destroy the Mursaat, and used the players to release Titans.
In the end, it was THE PLAYERS who were the evil ones, unintentionally bringing destructive forces down on Tyria.
Or not, depending on one’s point of view, and how one likes to read the events, after all, we did save Tyria from Abaddon. But would he even POSE a threat if we didn’t help Khilbron in the first place?
As we later saw, Abaddon had multiple plans on his mind, the Titans, the corruption of Shiro and Nightfall. He wouldn’t have given up on destroying humanity and getting revenge on the other gods. If we hadn’t helped Khilbron getting the scepter, would he have managed on his own? We can’t tell, but he most likely wouldn’t have managed to open the door of Komalie. So yes, we let the Titans in, but we also destroyed them.
About the Mantle, i always thought that they didn’t invite the Ascalonians to Kryta for selfless reasons, but to be able to look for the Chosen among them. Ironically they themselves shielded the true Chosen from getting found.
During times of GW1 i had also assumed that the Mursaat had originally come from the Realm of Torment themselves, and had fled to Tyria from the Titans. After hearing about the Flameseeker Prophecies they must have had all the more reason to keep the Titans locked away. GW2 lore has disproven this, since the Mursaat had been around for much longer than the Fall of Abbadon. A pity, i liked the idea that the Mursaat had come from there.
[Yak’s Bend]
I always saw the mursaat as a group of protectors working their kitten off to stop the titans coming back and wiping tyria clean of all life. The mursaat didn’t push down into tyria and crush the other races and until saul created his “cult” that worshipped them with sacrifices they didn’t seem to care about any race at all.
Just stay out of their area and you’ll be fine. Its more like “why are those human thingies killing each other on the bloodstones? can’t they just open portals normally or something? I keep telling them don’t do that and they just bow a lot and nod. We really need a better translator than this saul guy”.
I always saw the mursaat as a group of protectors working their kitten off to stop the titans coming back and wiping tyria clean of all life. The mursaat didn’t push down into tyria and crush the other races and until saul created his “cult” that worshipped them with sacrifices they didn’t seem to care about any race at all.
Just stay out of their area and you’ll be fine. Its more like “why are those human thingies killing each other on the bloodstones? can’t they just open portals normally or something? I keep telling them don’t do that and they just bow a lot and nod. We really need a better translator than this saul guy”.
Umm…
The Mursaat were the ones that set up the human sacrifices. They needed a constant source of Chosen souls to power the soul batteries locking the Door of Komalie, to keep the titans at bay. While they probably didn’t need the White Mantle to that job, since they are a race of invisible super spellcasters, using them made the harvest of souls easy. They used the false religion to create a state of peace and order in the region, and the humans basically become cattle.
Come to think of it, Kryta without the Mantle and Mursaat was (and IS now since they’re gone) a boiling cauldron of war, banditry and so on. Hundreds, or even thousands die on daily basis while Jenna and royalty feast and spend giant sums of gold on festivals and idle gestures of power (Queens Festival, anyone? Royalty and “heroes” fighting made up enemies while soldiers and common folks die out there to their real foes)…
On the other hand, theocratic Kryta under the Mantle was a peaceful, orderly land where people were generally safe, only a handful (7 a month ((or even a year)), in the WHOLE kingdom of Kryta, if I remember right, but double check me, writing this without checking sources) died as a price.
Seems like a fair deal to me, from the perspective of the average citicen of Kryta.
PLUS the Mursaat, still being alive, could be a powerful force against Abaddon’s plans, they might not be our allies, but they are certainly Abaddon’s enemies.
And in fact, the whole Factions/NIghtfall stories might go really different, or not happen at all if the door of Komalie was still closed, we can’t know that.
But no! kitten EVIL Mursaat, sacrificing the few, so that many (including themselves) may live, and otherwise letting things unfold without imposing their rule on the populace. Those kittenS, right?
Come to think of it, Kryta without the Mantle and Mursaat was (and IS now since they’re gone) a boiling cauldron of war, banditry and so on. Hundreds, or even thousands die on daily basis while Jenna and royalty feast and spend giant sums of gold on festivals and idle gestures of power (Queens Festival, anyone? Royalty and “heroes” fighting made up enemies while soldiers and common folks die out there to their real foes)…
On the other hand, theocratic Kryta under the Mantle was a peaceful, orderly land where people were generally safe, only a handful (7 a month ((or even a year)), in the WHOLE kingdom of Kryta, if I remember right, but double check me, writing this without checking sources) died as a price.
Seems like a fair deal to me, from the perspective of the average citicen of Kryta.
PLUS the Mursaat, still being alive, could be a powerful force against Abaddon’s plans, they might not be our allies, but they are certainly Abaddon’s enemies.
And in fact, the whole Factions/NIghtfall stories might go really different, or not happen at all if the door of Komalie was still closed, we can’t know that.
But no! kitten EVIL Mursaat, sacrificing the few, so that many (including themselves) may live, and otherwise letting things unfold without imposing their rule on the populace. Those kittenS, right?
Problem is you’re saying life is more important than liberty…
Slavery, even if it saves lives, is unacceptable.
Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care
I troll because I care
Uhm… how about no.
Thousands of Chosen just like me were killed upon the Bloodstones. Our souls were captured inside the soul batteries and brought here to power the Door of Komalie. – Jacob Salinger
It is the responsibility of the White Mantle to oversee the other humans and impose upon them the rules and laws of the Unseen Ones. Those inside the organization receive special privileges (more food, better clothing, access to books) simply for abiding by the rules of the Unseen Ones and carrying out the orders handed down by the White Mantle high priest. – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kryta
There was order and “peace,” and you could get by if you believed in the Unseen Ones… but if you didn’t, you’ve might as well just died for denying the one true gods of Kryta. Then thousands were killed under the span of two years. Krytans would’ve been wiped out if the sacrifices were allowed to continue.
I don’t know what “hundreds, maybe thousands of people dying on a daily basis are you speaking of,” because that is in a biased speculation unsupported by any evidence. If you’re looking for those responsible for the exorbitant spending of gold and preventing of justice and the efficient functioning of the Krytan army, you only have to look as far as the Ministry and the more-than-likely White Mantle cultist/spawn Minister Caudecus. There are ministers in DR even kidnapping and experimenting on civilians with forbidden, dark magic.
@Obsidian: HIGHLY debatable. Reduction of rights for safety, security, and the provision of wealth is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. Democracy is turning into a cancer.
Scarlet’s Alliance Wars (a.k.a. “Guild Wars 2”)
A fantasy of sci-fi cyborg implants grafted into the desiccated flesh of Guild Wars’ corpse.
A fantasy of sci-fi cyborg implants grafted into the desiccated flesh of Guild Wars’ corpse.
(edited by Thalador.4218)
Krytan’s didn’t even know they are slaves. It’s at best arguable if slavery with a master that wants NOTHING from you, and takes care of you is better than freedom where your life expectancy is similar to mayflies. Just saying.
EDIT
Also, big thank you for correcting me, Thalador, I did mention I write from memory, and I have clearly been mistaken about the ammount of sacrifices!
My point is rendered mute then, expect for the current Krytan government preffering to spend bayon sums on festivals and shows of strength rather than spending them on actually solving the problem. After all, it wasn’t Caudecus who ordered the Queen’s Festival, was it?
(edited by zwierz.9012)
Yes, you’ve been “a little” mistaken about the scope of the mursaat’s evil. :P
Caudecus was the one who set up that terrible carnival in the Eastern & Western Commons, for obvious PR purposes and making himself be seen as a nice guy (“panem et circenses,” only cut panem and replace it with something bad like mortem). However, it was the Ministry that was adamant about throwing a party for the Queen’s anniversary.
Scarlet’s Alliance Wars (a.k.a. “Guild Wars 2”)
A fantasy of sci-fi cyborg implants grafted into the desiccated flesh of Guild Wars’ corpse.
A fantasy of sci-fi cyborg implants grafted into the desiccated flesh of Guild Wars’ corpse.
(edited by Thalador.4218)
Yes, I was bows and tip’s a headwear that is not changing into a baby cat.
I did say to double check me because I wrote without checking sources, which I won’t omit in the future.
(edited by zwierz.9012)
Krytan’s didn’t even know they are slaves. It’s at best arguable if slavery with a master that wants NOTHING from you, and takes care of you is better than freedom where your life expectancy is similar to mayflies. Just saying.
The mayfly life would still be better.
Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care
I troll because I care
(edited by Obsidian.1328)
Long story short, Mursaat betrayed the other races during an ancient fight against the elder dragons. Glint saved some of them by hiding them. The Seers declared war against the Mursaats, but the Seers were annihilated instead.
The Flame Seeker Prophecies, by Glint, is pretty much a curses against the Mursaat. It was Glint’s revenge against the Mursaat for their betrayal.
The Titans are servants of Abaddon. They were probably created during Abaddon’s war against the other 5 gods. They also demonstrated intelligent. It is unknown why they would want the Mursaats dead. But they do, seemingly independent of Glint.
Mursaats were afraid of the prophecy, so they made the soul batteries to protect the seals.
The players broke though the barrier for the soul batteries. The Lich, with the Scepter of Orr, broke the seals and released the Titans.
Most of the Titans went straight after the Mursaats and killed most of them. The players sneaked around and kill the Lich.
During the War in Kryta, the players killed the remaining Mursaats in Kryta. The few Mursaats that survived went into hiding.
Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
Then thousands were killed under the span of two years.
Possibly five years. It’s a common and VERY easily overlooked fact, but the Test of the Chosen began no later than 1067 AE . Saul’s return and spreading the White Mantle faith was much sooner than the charr invasion. Whether or not the sacrifices occurred so early on is questioned – and, IMO, unlikely given Saul’s attitude to the mursaat killing his people at the end of his BMP mission.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Well, as far as i can remember, we don’t know if the mursaat knew about the titans or what’s on the other side of the door of komalie.
If they knew, wouldn’t they have tried to find a better solution than human sacrifices? Or run away?^^ It seems the only thing they had to go by was Glints prophecies, so they had no idea what was going to hit them.
And another important thing: when did the door of komalie form?
Well, we know two? events that happend there, before we visited it in gw1.
1. The gods hide all bloodstones there
I hope they didn’t dump gigantic magic batteries right next to a door that leads to their brothers prison.
2. The volcano erupts and scatters the bloodstones
I guess this could be the reason for/the effect of the door forming. Maybe the door formed/could form because of all that magic beeing released from the bloodstones in one place.
Or it formed at a later date, but when did the mursaat find the door? Right afterwards to keep it closed forever? I don’t think so. I’m not sure, so correct me if i’m wrong, but i think we don’t know how the different agents of abaddons (those demons in orr/canthe and the titans in Hrangmer) made it into tyria. Well if the door of komalie was not sealed and only guarded by forgotten on one side for some time (maybe months, years?) his agents could have escaped through it. Of course, since he wasn’t so strong at this time, he couldn’t send a whole army through the door. I don’t know how his agents got to their destinations, but i guess they could have walked or used portals. (On a Side note: would a lava titan die while walking through the ocean?)
And just as he was getting ready to conquer Tyria, the mursaat sealed the door because glint had forseen their doom. So Abaddon had to tell his agents from orr to deal with the problem and finish off whoever was responsible for it. Or Khilbron decided on his own that he would punish all that dared to stall his masters plans.
So glint made sure that the mursaat got in abaddons way and because of that the mursaat were attacked by the titans. I think there was no former connection between mursaat and titans.
One one of your questions, Titans change to fit the effects of the zone that they are in. All the titans that came through were likely originally in the form of the fleshy demonic titans from the Realm of Torment before they came through and became fiery titans, and then went through the Lich Lord’s portals to become the different forms of Titans that we ended up fighting.
To add to what Narcemus said Souly, it’s quite possible that the Door of Komalie took a while to even be opened a tiny amount; Abbadon’s stay in the Realm of Torment was for a very long time after all.
Before Nightfall we only see two “outpourings” of Abbadon’s power; the Door of Komalie, a portal which lesser creatures seem to be able to manage quite easily (for example Glint) and sending one demon to Cantha. Not hugely world modifying stuff.
The Door of Komalie looks like a tear in the fabric of reality to me. I always thought it was Odran’s first portal (which is befitting with the sacrifices he’s said to have made to open his first portal).
@Mularc: About Abaddon sending mininos… there’s actually 3 cases prior to Prophecies itself, and 3 cases during or since Prophecies prior to Nightfall. In the first case, you have the Fortune Teller, Razekiel (spelling may be off), and the titan(s) who appeared before the Flame Legion – two of which occured 200 years prior to Nightfall (roughly); fun fact, that’s around when Odran opened his portals. The latter three was Khilbron opening the door of Komalie (which per Domain of ANguish dialogue was meant to be a massive invasive front led by The Fury), the demons attacking Tomb of the Primeval Kings via the Hall of Heroes and one large chaos rift, and finally the Dragon Festival 2006 which had minor chaos rifts.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Honestly completely forgot about the leadup Konig, thanks for reminding me.