Guild Wars 2

I know this probably isn’t the smartest question, but humor me. Do you think the Mursaat will ever make a comeback in GW2? More importantly, do you think that They can become a playable race? I honestly doubt it, but I would love to be able to play as one of Tyria’s most beloved creatures. Maybe they realize they can help stop the Elder Dragons as well…and BOOM!!! New playable race. What do you guys think?

As a GW1 vet, I can’t explain just how much I’d be disappointed in Anet if they went and made the Mursaat a playable Race.

In Prophecies, these guys were freakin’ terrifying. When you first encountered them, with no infused gear, and you just dropped dead in a few seconds left going ’Wtf was that? What just happened? What the hell did this thing do?!". The difficulty curve that was created after the Desert from the guys and the stone summit was actually painful. They were one of the few enemies in games that I genuinely did not like to fight (this is pre-factions/nightfall era).

Further Anet continued this tradition of making them painful not only with the last mission in the War in Kryta Guild Wars Beyond content, but they added to the story of these guys in GW2. We found out that they not only fought alongside the other races, but they abandoned them when the going got tough.

These guys are villains. The only thing thing they care about is themselves. When the Flameseeker Prophecies were found out about, they did everything they possibly could to prevent them in fear of the genocide that awaited them if they failed. They did not care about how much blood they spilled so long as it wasn’t their blood being spilled.

And all of that would be wiped away to make these guys a playable race. Anet would have to make us empathize with them (a la Charr), they would have to completely 180 their personality from self-serving and selfish to something akin to the Asura’s ‘self-serving’ but still willing help.

The story of the Mursaat, and ultimately their defeat, was that they could not help the other races. Their view of being superior to all other races is what led to their downfall. They could not finish the war against the Dragons because it was not achievable by themselves alone so they phase shifted away from the plane to protect themselves. They saw humanity not as a potential equal, but as fodder for the Bloodstones to keep their race alive(despite this still having a beneficial effect of keeping Titans out of Tyria, the Mursaat did so only because doing otherwise would have meant the end of themselves). Everything they have done was done purely for themselves, everyone else be kitten They’re like the Inquest, only instead of being a ‘faction’ of a race, it is their entire race.

Do I want to see them in game again? Yes, very much so. However this race of villains, which is precisely what they are, are amazing specifically because they are villains. I hope that Anet never make these iconic bad guys anything but what they are.

Will the mursaat return? Most likely. Lazarus is likely to return, if not others.

Will they be a playable race? No. Their entire story is focused around being selfish jerks who don’t give a kitten if other races go extinct so long as their life is safe. That’s why they betrayed the Seers and nearly wiped them out before fleeing the world when the Elder Dragons last rose despite their magic being the most effective against the dragons and their minions. This is also why the mursaat killed thousands of Krytans within five years just to prevent the Flameseeker Prophecies from fulfilling. This is why Lazarus went and infused his body into faithful follower and killed them to reform.

The mursaat are a pitch black race of selfish evil.

Furthermore, in Prophecies almost all mursaat were wiped out. Lazarus was literally intended to be the last one as of Eye of the North’s development (so said John Stumme) though this changed in War in Kryta – but all added mursaat were then killed off, leaving Lazarus to be the last again (though they may add others, who knows, but a whole race of mursaat? No, not likely to happen, let alone as good guys).

If Anet went and made the mursaat a playable race, they’d be tossing their lore into a ten foot deep ditch and burying it – at that point, I’d almost say Blizzard’s better with their lore than Anet. Almost. It’s already two feet down and slowly, ever so slowly, going down.

I’m kind of iffy on this subject. While I would very much love for them to be a playable race, since they were my favorite race in gw1, they are simply too powerful lore wise for that to happen.

Norn are MUCH stronger than humans…
Charr are much stronger than humans…
Asura are much smarter than humans…
Sylvari are… hmm… uncorruptable than humans…?

The mursaat can still kill them all with basically a single glance. Heck, their jade creations can kill them all as well. For them to become a playable race, Anet would have to overhaul the entire race while keep the bare bones the same. Then, they would have to explain their evil acts in gw1, like they did with the Charr. Though to be fair, almost anything can beat the Charr’s whole “Abaddon made us do it” excuse. It seemed almost all the bad guys got to use that in gw1.

Some players would still be kitten that if they get included as a playable race, because they see the playable races as the “good guys”, and the Mursaat are so clearly bad guys to them. I would argue that without the unifying force of the Elder Dragons; the playable races wouldn’t nearly be a peaceful with another as they are now, if not outright at war with one another.

Honestly, how friendly do you think the charr will be towards Ebonhawke when the Flame Legion, Ascalonian Ghosts, and the Dragonbrand are gone? All three of these threats are appearing to slowly be defeated. The Flame Legion have lost their leaders, and are only able to hold on because of the alliance with the dredge. The Ascalonian Ghosts may be disappearing with the discovery of Magdaer. And the Dragonbrand will eventually disappear with the death of Kralkatorrik. Leaving the Iron Legion with only 2 possible enemies, the ogres, and Ebonhawke. I wouldn’t like to see what it looks like when the Iron Legion have their sights on only 2 enemies rather than 5.

Smodur is pretty forward thinking. It would behoove the humans to support him politically and help him stay in power.

Anet turned the Charr into a playable race, so turning Mursaat into one is possible although highly unlikely imo. I always assuned we would see them again, if only in very small numbers, and maybe only Lazarus (with whom i, like probably many other players, have a score to settle). But evil nature does not stop Anet, one just retcons stuff away.

And about the Charr and Ebonhawke, it feels like Anet will not let another war happen between Charr and humanity. From the background information it would seem to be likely that the Charr would seek new enemies once the available ones are defeated, but it is still a long way till then, and the ingame perspective is “we all become big friends with one another”. Cooperation between different races and organizations and overcoming differences for the sake of a greater good are some of the main themes of the game.

It’s the theme of the game yes, but it’s also the theme of the charr to look forwards to new conquests.

i agree there probably won’t be another war but this is due to specific personalities within the game universe. And the story will make sure those types of personalities remain on top. But there is still plenty of charr and humans who aren’t big friends with one another. Smodur is described by A-Net as “forward thinking” for considering the treaty with Ebonhawke and Rytlock’s loyalties are still questioned even after the treaty.

edit: And we currently have two races who’s long term goals are to rule Tyria. Asura and Charr.

The question Smodur would be asking, should the other threats be eliminated, is whether the Iron Legion would stand to gain more from a resumption of hostilities than they would lose?

My gut feeling, should the truce prove reasonably stable, is no, for the following reasons:

First, the truce provides for opportunities. Trading of goods and knowledge is one. Another is the opportunity to use human lands as a launchpoint for claiming new lands somewhere else – I don’t think anyone else is going to complain much is the charr carve out a new domain out of centaur territory north of Kryta or, should Elona be liberated, out of the wilderness to the east of Elona.

Second, resuming hostilities carries danger. The charr have had the upper hand for the last two centuries, but humans remain the only force – apart from the dragons – that have given them a run for their proverbial money. Additionally, the war between humans and charr has been one marked by decisive events that the other side didn’t see coming until it was too late – with the Iron Legion having pretty much achieved what it wanted out of the war, they’d probably prefer to avoid the risk that resuming hostilities might give humans the opportunity and motive to pull out some other nasty surprise.

Finally, the reaction of the other races needs to be considered. Previously, for the younger races in the region, the war between humans and charr was just something that was – the origins of the conflict were old enough and murky enough that an outside observer couldn’t really say who was in the right or wrong, at least not with enough certainty to interfere. Now that there’s been a peace, though, if one side breaks the truce without provocation, they’re going to be viewed as aggressors and truce-breakers by the other races… which may lead to economic or even military consequences.

I’d say yes they will probably return, no they should not be playable, but I would love to see another war between the seer and the mursaat, seer all the way!

Infamous Darkness.3284:

I’d say yes they will probably return, no they should not be playable, but I would love to see another war between the seer and the mursaat, seer all the way!

Since both races are speculated to be near extinction, or possibly outright extinct in the Seers case, that would be kind of hard to do. Unless it would be Lazarus vs. the last Seer, one on one, Mortal Kombat style, with infusion to be fair.

It would be fun for the players that haven’t played gw1 to get a taste of the mursaat’s spectral agony, outside of FotM, since I can easily see Lazarus’ return get a multi-month living story arc. White Mantle army, with jade constructs to bolster their forces, raiding Kryta.

Oh… That would be fun. I can imagine all the angry ranting and QQing coming from all the people.

Tbh I still can’t see any reason the mursaat can’t return, the krytan civil war making them extinct would just be questionable.

Also Lazarus’ story is completly irrelevent to whether or not the race is extinct.

Questions that don’t seem to have a definitive answer: Do the mursaat reproduce like other species? Do the mursaat eat? Where do they live? How high can they fly or hover? Do they live in the jade see or where does all the jade come from? Do they only have one colony? Why do they all dress the same, have they no sense of individuality? What’s under the mask?

I don’t think the Mursaat have anything to do with the Jade Sea. This is for a couple of reasons.

The Jade Sea being petrified being a recent phenomena in the game’s history that was caused by Shiro Tagatchi. But more, we have no knowledge that the Mursaat ever went as far south as Cantha or even Elona for that matter. Though being ‘unseen’ I guess is evidence enough to say they could be there just hiding more and being less intrusive.

The other issue I have is that the Jade Constructs, despite being called Jade Constructs… well don’t actually look like they’re made of Jade until the WiK where they introduced the more powerful Jade Cloak. I’d wager that for the most part, they’re made of Obsidian, which would make sense considering their huge base of operations in the Ring of Fire that we went and destroyed.

Though it is possible that they are in fact, made of Jade, I’d find it more likely that if that’s the case the stone probably came from the area north of Kryta. Jade may not be specific to the Jade Sea in that Jade is a regular stone. The only reason why Jade from the Jade Sea after it was petrified was just the most abundant source of it that we know (being an entire sea being made of it an all.

Now… to answer your previous question I think some things can be said of the Mursaat considering what we know of them and the artwork that’s been produced. Do they eat? Likely, but it’s not something we would consider ‘eating’ in a conventional sense. Here we see that they don’t appear to have mouths beneath those masks they wear, and so I’d wager that their physiology would probably consume something less tangible than food. Being an advance race of spellcasters perhaps they syphon ambiant magic for nourishment? We don’t really know, anything we say about the Mursaat diet would at best be speculation.

How do they hover about? Well they all do have fluttery little feather wings, but I’m not certain if these are functional. We do know that the wings are organic/part of their body and not part of their armor. Again, I would mark this up to ‘magically superior race’. Why walk when you float around like a bauss?

Lastly for their dress code, I actually see them very much akin to the Altmer of the Elder Scrolls Universe. They have an overarching philosophy of perfection. They likely all dress the same because they see their garb as the perfect aesthetic for their race. What we know of them is that they have a superiority complex and won’t stop at anything to show just how much better they are. Why else were gold and flashy things like they if not to depict themselves as Masters over other races. Alternatively, we only ever fought Mursaat. We don’t know if this was the uniform of those Mursaat trained for battle or if this is in actuality their every day dress. The only ‘cities’ if you want to call them that, were military installations on the Ring of Fire. These weren’t homes, they were fortresses built to defend the Ring of Fire from anybody who tried to get to the bloodstone and fulfill the Flame Seeker Prophecies. So I don’t think it would be unheard of to suggest that these Mursaat were all part of some kind of Military (sort of like Generals over armies of Jade Constructs and the like).

Ratphink.4751:

Lastly for their dress code, I actually see them very much akin to the Altmer of the Elder Scrolls Universe. They have an overarching philosophy of perfection. They likely all dress the same because they see their garb as the perfect aesthetic for their race. What we know of them is that they have a superiority complex and won’t stop at anything to show just how much better they are. Why else were gold and flashy things like they if not to depict themselves as Masters over other races. Alternatively, we only ever fought Mursaat. We don’t know if this was the uniform of those Mursaat trained for battle or if this is in actuality their every day dress. The only ‘cities’ if you want to call them that, were military installations on the Ring of Fire. These weren’t homes, they were fortresses built to defend the Ring of Fire from anybody who tried to get to the bloodstone and fulfill the Flame Seeker Prophecies. So I don’t think it would be unheard of to suggest that these Mursaat were all part of some kind of Military (sort of like Generals over armies of Jade Constructs and the like).

I agree fully with the last sentiment. All of the Mursaat that we saw were in the invasion force, so it makes sense that they would have very similar military uniforms to each other. Especially since they were all scholar class professions.

I think they wont but not beacuse there evil i mean look at the charr there worse and yet u can play them i think not beacuse of the over poweredness if ur not infused.

Kyle.7243:

I think they wont but not beacuse there evil i mean look at the charr there worse and yet u can play them i think not beacuse of the over poweredness if ur not infused.

The Mursaat are a lot more evil than the Charr were.
The Charr are a grey area, it was the Shaman Caste who were “evil”, and you have to keep in mind that humanity took the lands of Ascalon from the Charr who were the original inhabitants.

The Mursaat are just malicious and pure evil.

Actually, despite the common misconception, the charr were not the original inhabitants of Ascalon – they came from east of the Blazeridge, and effectively made a n shape around the Blazeridge Mountains, annihilating all threats along the way.

The only ones we know were in Ascalon originally would be the grawl – though there’s (minor) indication that the dwarves were there before the charr. Which would explain how the jotun ruled the Shiverpeaks in the distant past but the dwarves were around and not subjugated at the time.

And I wouldn’t say the mursaat are “pure evil” even though they are pretty close.

Just a race of “in the shadows backstabbers/genocide causers” kinda like a whole races of Menzies’. Sadly though, genocide seems to be somewhat acceptable in Tyria as long as you face your enemy directly. I mean no one is putting the Charr or the Humans down for warcrimes…

Probably largely because those warcrimes happened generations ago. While some religions may disagree, it’s not really fair to punish the current generation for something that their ancestors did centuries ago.

Narcemus.1348:

Just a race of “in the shadows backstabbers/genocide causers” kinda like a whole races of Menzies’. Sadly though, genocide seems to be somewhat acceptable in Tyria as long as you face your enemy directly. I mean no one is putting the Charr or the Humans down for warcrimes…

Not that I support or approve of what the Mursaat did to the Seers, we still don’t know really anything about the cause of their war, or even when it exactly happened (though we can get a couple educated guesses about when). Until we know all of this, it’s a little too easy to label the Seers the innocent little snowflakes, and the Mursaat evil genociding wrongdoers.

Ree Soesbee: There have been a lot of questions about the Seers and their ancient war with the mursaat. Sadly, these aren’t questions we can answer at great length without giving away some very deep secrets of the Guild Wars world. I can say that they are one of the oldest races of Tyria, dating back long before the Gods brought the humans to the world; to the time of the writing of the Tome of Rubicon. In those ancient days, the Seers fought against the mursaat, but they were in turn defeated by their enemies, and their civilization lost to the ravages of time.

The bolded part kind of suggests there might be more to the Seer/Mursaat war than we might think. Though I would speculate, it would be around the creation of the Bloodstone, since that was one of the big reveals in Arah. Making an object that can absorb, contain, and seal away all the (uncorrupted) magic of an entire continent, and possibly the world?

That doesn’t take power, that takes POWER power. We haven’t seen anyone or anything doing something like that or of that magnitude since.

I think it gets mentioned in the mursaat arc, actually (I haven’t had the chance to do it myself, but someone who has might corroborate). The mursaat found a way to escape from the elder dragons and essentially abandoned their former allies – the seers took affront at this and tried to force the mursaat to, basically, not be so selfish. They failed, the mursaat left, and it was up to the seers and forgotten to take the steps necessary for survival (the forging of the original proto-bloodstone and the emancipation of Glint).

This does mean, however, that it’s not clear that the mursaat were actually directly responsible for the fall of seer civilisation – it’s possible that the mursaat going from ally to enemy left the seers vulnerable to the dragons, and that’s how the seer civilisation was destroyed. I don’t think there’s actually anything that specifies that the mursaat committed genocide on the seers, just that the seers have a major grudge against them.

The best we know of the mursaat/seer war is that “the mursaat betrayed the other races before fleeing the world” – and they only returned from the Mists “to be known as the Unseen Ones” so the war had to be that “betrayal.” And if it’s a betrayal, the mursaat were the ones in the wrong (most likely).

Though we’re also told in Prophecies, iirc, that the seers fell because they didn’t have a defense to Spectral Agony. That would mean the mursaat caused so much death directly that it left them too wounded to continue on as a civilization.

I’ve gone looking for that line, and can’t find it. I think it’s just something that’s been inferred. Even then, though, the seers losing the war because they had no defence against Spectral Agony could have been because they were unable to mount a credible offensive against the mursaat before the mursaat escaped, not that the mursaat necessarily counterattacked.

(Don’t get me wrong – I think the seers were probably still justified, under the circumstances. Just that we don’t actually know that the mursaat destroyed the seers directly.)

Given that the Mursaat, more than anything, seemed to be concerned with their own survival, I do wonder if they instigated the war in the first place.

If they did, you would think they would only do so if they thought the Seers were a threat to their survival in some way – and enough of one to risk going to war with them.

Granted, so much of the Mursaat’s history is shrouded in mystery, but their motives always struck me primarily as survival at any cost. They didn’t kill Chosen out of anger, revenge, or spite, but instead to survive at a race at any cost – even if it meant the death of thousands of innocents. They are a horribly selfish race, willing to kill and murder if it means a better chance for survival – but unlike, say, the Charr from GW1, they don’t seem interested in war for the sake of conquering their enemies.

This makes me think that if they were, in fact, aggressors in instigating the war with the Seers, they must have had some reason to believe the Seers were a significant threat to their survival (not that the reasoning in any way justified it) and the best way to address that threat would be to wipe out, or at least cripple the Seers.

Caledore.6271:

This makes me think that if they were, in fact, aggressors in instigating the war with the Seers, they must have had some reason to believe the Seers were a significant threat to their survival (not that the reasoning in any way justified it) and the best way to address that threat would be to wipe out, or at least cripple the Seers.

Very likely, and we may already have the justification for their betrayal. Just think of the bloodstone: the seers took away a significant portion of the other elder races’ magic (I speculate that was the first step in the fall of the jotun), so the mursaat might have been scared kittenless of losing their almighty powers of phase out and spectral agony. In my book, that would be a hell of a big reason to wage war on former allies.

It should also be kept in mind that we know basically 0 of the seer as a race, their culture, and their beliefs. They might not have been pure in intent as many of us assume without hesitation.

For instance, they could’ve been like how the Protheans were in Mass Effect: for 2 entire games the whole galaxy believed them to be noble and peaceful watchers and rulers of the Milky Way…

What if the seers had a sinister plot in mind with the collected magic after the Elder Dragons were gone/returned to hibernation?

I whole heartedly agree that the Seers may not have been a fully noble race either. Except for recent circumstances there aren’t many blacks and whites in the Guild Wars universe. I can personally seeing the Bloodstone being part of the Seers being selfish themselves. We know that the mursaat were definitely the magical power behind the original alliance. I can see this being a small problem growing out of control. First the mursaat study how to leave Tyria through their magic and the Seers learn of this. Because of the mursaat actions, the Seers study the creation of the Bloodstone as retribution for attempting to leave. The mursaat feel this threat against them and rise up in battle. The Seers create infusion to protect against spectral agony, but not before it’s too late. The Mursaat leave the world, and the few remaining Seers activate the Bloodstone sucking magic out of Tyria. Mursaat become trapped in the mists until a certain Lord Ordan opens a portal that they can travel through back to Tyria. That last part is mostly theorizing on the possibility of a Mursaat civilization within the mists.

Narcemus.1348:

We know that the mursaat were definitely the magical power behind the original alliance.

Do we? Apart from the dwarves, none of the elder races were slackers magically speaking – but they all brought something different to the alliance. I think I have seen mention somewhere that the mursaat magics were most effective used in battle directly against the dragon minions (Spectral Agony) but that’s just one aspect.

What does seem to be the case is that when the mursaat decided to leave, they were taking something with them that the other races needed. It may have been their ability to Spectral Agony the dragon minions, or it might have been that their research into going out of phase with Tyria was something that was supposed to be shared among all the elder races, but the mursaat kept it for themselves and abandoned the others.

Frosch.7809:

Anet turned the Charr into a playable race, so turning Mursaat into one is possible although highly unlikely imo. I always assuned we would see them again, if only in very small numbers, and maybe only Lazarus (with whom i, like probably many other players, have a score to settle). But evil nature does not stop Anet, one just retcons stuff away.

And about the Charr and Ebonhawke, it feels like Anet will not let another war happen between Charr and humanity. From the background information it would seem to be likely that the Charr would seek new enemies once the available ones are defeated, but it is still a long way till then, and the ingame perspective is “we all become big friends with one another”. Cooperation between different races and organizations and overcoming differences for the sake of a greater good are some of the main themes of the game.

The Charr were not villains though….if anything Humans were more villainous than the charr. When humans arrived in Tyria, they basically made camp in Ascalon and pushed the Charr north, and said get the kitten out. The Charr are just trying to take back what is rightfully theirs, thus causing the seering, and then to get back at the humans, the sinking of Orr and the Gods. Humans are just too stubborn to “lose”, when they have a place in Kryta to call their own now.

History is murky, especially since we’ve never really been given the human side of that story… and the charr weren’t actually there first (the grawl were). The concept of ‘let bygones be bygones’ comes into play here – nobody in the real world would say that one country would be justified in nuking another because they lost a war nearly twelve centuries ago. In addition, we only received the information that the charr used to live in Ascalon after ArenaNet decided to make them playable – until then it basically appeared as if the charr decided to try to wipe humans off the map purely for puppies and giggles.

Additionally, the centaurs would say they have just as much of a right to kick humans out as the charr. The only place that humans can really call their own is Orr… but that’s not really tenable right now.

There is no angels versus demons here. Merely mortals reliving the wars of the past.

Jordo.5913:

The Charr were not villains though….if anything Humans were more villainous than the charr. When humans arrived in Tyria, they basically made camp in Ascalon and pushed the Charr north, and said get the kitten out. The Charr are just trying to take back what is rightfully theirs, thus causing the seering, and then to get back at the humans, the sinking of Orr and the Gods. Humans are just too stubborn to “lose”, when they have a place in Kryta to call their own now.

Okay, I’ve heard this brought up time and time again. Frankly. Not buying it.

Yes, the Humans kicked the Charr out of Ascalon. So what? Do you think the Charr haven’t done similarly to other cultures? They’re a Militaristic Expansionist culture. They tried to kick the Norn out of the Far Northern Shiverpeaks and failed.

Secondly, humans never ate Charr prisoners. Or pit Charr Prisoners into death battles against monsters with no weapons for sport. Or used them as slave labour. Or attempted genocide against the entire species of Charr.

Yes, I will say the Charr attempted to wipe all humans out of Tyria. I would argue they did not have knowledge of Elona or Cantha, and therefore after the searing when they pushed past the Northern Wall the Charr attempted to finish humanity off once and for all. Or are you going to tell me they had land claims on both Orr and Kryta as well (I’m sure the Centaurs would have something to say about that).

Were it not for the Mursaat and the efforts of Ascalon, the Charr came very close to successfully wiping out humans from the continent of Tyria. Not only that they scorched the land, destroying everything just to ‘get their land back’.

I will not say the humans are innocent of war crimes, of which I think Adelbern stepped too far in cursing the very people he had sworn to protect. But to go and say the Humans were more villainous than the Charr is ridiculous. And before I get a ‘but that was the Flame Legion’ as a common get out of Jail Free card, I will say that if the Flame Legion get to be blamed for all of Charr’s atrocities then humans get to blame Adelbern for the attrocities he’s committed that wasn’t in the name of all humans everywhere.

End of the story though, the Charr were not by any stretch friendly. Just in the contact with the Norn alone, it showed that if they thought they could conquer you, they would.

Very well said!

On the Flame Legion card – all of the charr at the time supported the Searing, and even now most charr see the Searing as a good thing and view the key figures of the invasion of Ascalon as heroes. The only thing the charr back then objected to was that the Flame Legion was doing it in the name of a third party rather than purely for the charr.

Let’s not sugar coat the charr. They are mightily militaristic and they are brutal to their enemies. Their goal, like the asura, is to be the alpha species in their territories. And that’s okay. In some ways they are more lenient than the asura who eventually want to dominate all other species.