Guild Wars 2

Now that we know that the Nightmare Court wasn’t created via dragon corruption, how do you guys think they came to be? It’s established that Nightmare Court members are “corrupted” somehow and that it’s a one-way street. This sounds similar to dragon corruption, and that was the popular theory before Anet’s lore post. If they’re corrupted but not dragon minions, what are they?

Personally, my guess is that the “Nightmare” is some sort of byproduct of Mordremoth’s attacks on the Dream. The Pale Tree was able to repel him, but wasn’t able to stop him from damaging some parts of the Dream, hence the Nightmare.

The Nightmare was said to also act as protection against Mordremoth, so it being a “byproduct” doesn’t make much sense.

What it is fully depends on what the Dream is. Some of the more sane Nightmare Courtiers simply claim that the Nightmare is ‘darkness’ while the Dream is ‘light’, and these saner Courtiers tend to be willing to do good more often than the not-so-sane ones like Tiachern if he falls to Nightmare.

There hasn’t been a connection established between Mordremoth and the Nightmare court, perhaps there isn’t one as Konig suggested. It’s weird because Sylvari do seem to be able to be corrupted by the Nightmare, and in many ways, it’s similar to how Mordremoth corrupted Sylvari. However Scarlet Briar was never a nightmare courtier, in fact she made fun of Caithe and Faolain because I guess she thought their feud was pointless, she also knew that Caithe knew what the Sylvari were, and we have no clue how she found out. The point is Scarlet was an agent of Mordremoth, she was plugged into ley line energy, which at the time they had no idea that the ley lines contain at least some dragon magic, all of that, exposing her to Mordremoth.

Another bit of a difference is if I remember, Scarlet refers to Mordremoth as a dark entity, I don’t think there’s any mention of the Nightmare court communicating with a any sort of Dark Entity, which is weird because go forward to Mordremoth’s mind, there’s this black, dragon-ish visage, that’s clearly the dark entity Scarlet was referring to.

I think that if the Nightmare Court is related to Mordremoth, it would be similar to the sons of svanir, where they aren’t necessarily minions, but begin to practice the ideologies of the dragon. I suppose it’s possible the Nightmare Court could have been devised by Mordremoth to weaken the Pale Tree’s independence in preparation for his awakening. There does seem to be a Glint-Kralkatorrik relationship between Mordremoth and the Pale Tree, it would seem clear that the Elder Dragons do not like their creations to defy them.

And lastly, the Nightmare Court seems to have it’s own agenda, that honestly, really only cares about them liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, could this help Mordremoth’s plans? Absolutely. I would even say there’s probably a lot of overlap. Neither Mordrem-Sylvari or Nightmare Court accept the Pale Tree as their master, that’s definitely a common enemy.

Mushroomz.4280:

And lastly, the Nightmare Court seems to have it’s own agenda, that honestly, really only cares about them liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, could this help Mordremoth’s plans? Absolutely. I would even say there’s probably a lot of overlap. Neither Mordrem-Sylvari or Nightmare Court accept the Pale Tree as their master, that’s definitely a common enemy.

This is not entirely true. First of all, the goal is not liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, but liberating Sylvari from all oppressors (which means the firstborn, the tablet, but also, as Faolain points out, Mordemoth). Secondly, they do not want to get rid of the pale tree, they need the pale tree. They just want to change the pale tree.

The recent Guild Chat episode had something rather interesting in a “blink and you’ll miss it” moment, essentially. When they showed the concept art for Stavemaster Adryn, one of the three Mordrem Guard Commanders, the concept art was titled Nightmare Seer in the lower right corner. This made me think back on how Colin Johanson once called these minions the Mordrem Court instead of Mordrem Guard, which may have been an alpha name for the group before they settled on the finalized version. Was Adryn originally a Nightmare Courtier before being turned (it was originally implied in an earlier vid that the three Commanders all came from the Pact fleet, but maybe some Courtiers sneaked aboard?), or does “Nightmare Seer” hold deeper significance and a connection between the Nightmare and Mordremoth? Or maybe it’s just a cool placeholder name…

It would be a shame if the writers explained the Nightmare away as just being somehow tied to Mordremoth attempting to influence the Dream as it would make more sense to me, and make the narrative more interesting, to have the more reasonable Courtiers actually be right about the Nightmare simply being the Darkness to the Dream’s Light, which is why Malyck’s Tree being tied to neither, being Twilight or something along those lines, makes it so intriguing to both Dreamers and Courtiers alike. It would be intriguing to see both the Dream and the Nightmare generally fight for the same cause but simply use different methods to achieve the goal of opposing the dragons with the Nightmare being more ruthless and pragmatically “evil” than the more benign Dream. It would also tie into Celtic mythology, which the sylvari draw inspiration from, where Darkness wasn’t necessarily ‘evil’ per se but just a different, even if somewhat scary, way of looking at the world from a different perspective.

There are still quite a few mysteries about the Dream and Nightmare that should be explored, and I feel delving deeper into Malyck’s unresolved story could help us shed some light on that, the mystery of the cave the seeds were found in, as well as maybe show a race between Dreamers and Courtiers to try to make Malyck’s Grove side with either of their factions, and this other Grove being cautious/curious of either path their cousins offer them (Malyck notwithstanding as his positive experiences with Dreamers and bad experiences with the Knight of Embers would have him oppose all Nightmare Courtiers, likely including even the more moderate ones like Duchess Crysanthea who fought alongside us in Dragon’s Stand, on principle). That way we could not only explore the whole Dream/Nightmare stuff, the cave and the seeds stuff, but also discuss the Nightmare Court on a deeper level. But maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part.

Diovid.9506:

This is not entirely true. First of all, the goal is not liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, but liberating Sylvari from all oppressors (which means the firstborn, the tablet, but also, as Faolain points out, Mordemoth). Secondly, they do not want to get rid of the pale tree, they need the pale tree. They just want to change the pale tree.

There’s actually a chance that the Nightmare Court could’ve rejected the Pale Tree rather violently if the Knight of Embers had delivered what she had learned about Malyck to Faolain. The sylvari PC states the following in the early Personal Story mission Snuffing Out Embers:

<Character name>: If Faolain finds out, she won’t need the Grove. The court will burn the Pale Tree to the ground and find one they can more easily twist to nightmare.

Granted, this is only the PC’s assumption, which is supported by Trahearne or Caithe (depending on which one you chose to go with in an earlier mission), but it is nevertheless a potential course of action the NC could take if they learned the truth.

We still haven’t learned what Faolain was doing so far in Magus Falls and what she’d been up to in the past 2-3 years since her rather quick departure from Twilight Arbor. Did she have a chat with Scarlet (depending on the timeline of when the Aetherblades began building their base in TA) who may have known Malyck’s secret and told her, after which she left to find Malyck’s Grove to gather new followers once her subordinates began their power struggle for leadership over the NC back in Caledon Forest and beyond? Did Faolain spy on Caithe and sneak aboard the Pact fleet when she lost sight of her, did she work alongside Duchess Crysanthea before being imprisoned by mordrem, or did she act all by herself while Crysanthea had her own goals? Too many unanswered questions there, and I feel we’ll likely never find out the truth after Faolain was quickly shoved aside in the story of Heart of Thorns without giving her any room to develop as a character.

Kossage.9072:

Diovid.9506:

This is not entirely true. First of all, the goal is not liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, but liberating Sylvari from all oppressors (which means the firstborn, the tablet, but also, as Faolain points out, Mordemoth). Secondly, they do not want to get rid of the pale tree, they need the pale tree. They just want to change the pale tree.

There’s actually a chance that the Nightmare Court could’ve rejected the Pale Tree rather violently if the Knight of Embers had delivered what she had learned about Malyck to Faolain. The sylvari PC states the following in the early Personal Story mission Snuffing Out Embers:

<Character name>: If Faolain finds out, she won’t need the Grove. The court will burn the Pale Tree to the ground and find one they can more easily twist to nightmare.

Granted, this is only the PC’s assumption, which is supported by Trahearne or Caithe (depending on which one you chose to go with in an earlier mission), but it is nevertheless a potential course of action the NC could take if they learned the truth.

I’m well aware that that could’ve happened. The point is that it didn’t happen (yet).

Diovid.9506:

Mushroomz.4280:

And lastly, the Nightmare Court seems to have it’s own agenda, that honestly, really only cares about them liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, could this help Mordremoth’s plans? Absolutely. I would even say there’s probably a lot of overlap. Neither Mordrem-Sylvari or Nightmare Court accept the Pale Tree as their master, that’s definitely a common enemy.

This is not entirely true. First of all, the goal is not liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, but liberating Sylvari from all oppressors (which means the firstborn, the tablet, but also, as Faolain points out, Mordemoth). Secondly, they do not want to get rid of the pale tree, they need the pale tree. They just want to change the pale tree.

Ehh, I don’t know, there’s different factions, some of the Nightmare Court, one of the bosses in TA, I forget his name, literally talks about burning down the Pale Tree, but you are right that many want to convert it to their side. We know there are different factions in the Nightmare Court, and even radical factions such as the Toxic Alliance faction. There’s much talk about embracing their ‘true nature’ and that true nature would be being a minion of Mordremoth. I feel like it just depends on who you’re talking about.

Mushroomz.4280:

Diovid.9506:

Mushroomz.4280:

And lastly, the Nightmare Court seems to have it’s own agenda, that honestly, really only cares about them liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, could this help Mordremoth’s plans? Absolutely. I would even say there’s probably a lot of overlap. Neither Mordrem-Sylvari or Nightmare Court accept the Pale Tree as their master, that’s definitely a common enemy.

This is not entirely true. First of all, the goal is not liberating Sylvari from the Pale Tree, but liberating Sylvari from all oppressors (which means the firstborn, the tablet, but also, as Faolain points out, Mordemoth). Secondly, they do not want to get rid of the pale tree, they need the pale tree. They just want to change the pale tree.

Ehh, I don’t know, there’s different factions, some of the Nightmare Court, one of the bosses in TA, I forget his name, literally talks about burning down the Pale Tree, but you are right that many want to convert it to their side. We know there are different factions in the Nightmare Court, and even radical factions such as the Toxic Alliance faction. There’s much talk about embracing their ‘true nature’ and that true nature would be being a minion of Mordremoth. I feel like it just depends on who you’re talking about.

Except what they mean by being true to their nature is being free from the tablet. They have (or at least had) no clue they were meant to be minions of Mordremoth, the only Sylvari that knew before the events of HoT were Caithe, Scarlet and Wynne (and maybe Aerin). If the courtiers knew their true nature was being a minion of Mord, most would not say they want to embrace their true nature.