Guild Wars 2

All the threads about the Pale Tree have so far (that I read) only focussed on the Pale Tree as being a creature that is on Tyria ‘now’ and ‘for the first time’. But as history points out, the dragons are a cyclical event… what if the pale tree is part of the cycle?

Could it be that at least some of the Plant creatures (while true, ‘not sylvari’) in GW1 would have been created by a previous ‘pale tree’. One that might have taken a different approach to it’s creatures. For one, one could argue that the Oakhearts and other ‘Hearts’ might have been created on a previous cycle. Possibly together with some other plant creatures in GW1. The Pale Tree has shown to be capable of creating different kinds of creatures, so why not the previous Pale Tree…

In a similar sense, ‘how old are the Centaur?’ … could it be that their reverence for a Mother Tree and Spirits of Nature, comes from a time where they were a lesser race and happen to live in the same area the previous Pale Tree grew? In a sense, would the old teachings that also inspired Ventari be teachings of a previous Pale Tree.

The whole ‘where do the seeds come from’, would also be solved. They would simply come from a previous Pale Tree, guarded by the ‘most sentient’ plant creatures that pale tree produced then. So why weren’t there any Sylvari on the world already? Well it is said the Pale Tree mimicked what it found around itself. So if the previous tree would have been in a mostly pristine forest, could it not be assumed it would produce offspring mimicking that, with quite possible some creatures that would more or less resemble ‘elementals’…

This then mostly leads me to question the life expectancy of Dragon Minions as well… Because Mordi also makes these plant like critters. What happens to them if the Dragons return to slumber? We have seen from the defeat of Zhaitan that they do not drop ‘dead’ to the ground. So arguably some, if not a large part, of the plant creatures might also have been ‘Mordrem’. Now seeing Aloe Husks are said to ‘maybe’ be in Pre-Ascalon because of magical experiments in wizards tower, could it be that these experiments are similar to what scarlet tried to do in her ‘tower of madness’, or what the Asura did in CoE.

On the same line would be that these plant creatures are ‘said’ (GW1 wiki) to sprout due to an abundance of Magic present. Well what if the Pale Tree is itself is ‘in essence’ of similar origin, only then on a more ‘global’ scale. See if the Dragons arise when they have practically bled out all their magic, and they are part of a cycle to clean it back up. What if that access of magic then also causes the sprouting of the Pale Tree. In this sense the Pale Tree is not a dragon, it is a side effect of the abundance of magic, which then becomes part of the whole cycle…

Dragons slumber -> magic bleeds into Tyria (along rivers of magic ?) -> excessive amount of magic on Tyria -> Pale Tree Sprouts + First Dragon starts to awaken -> Pale tree grows and produces plant creatures -> More Dragons awaken -> Dragons consume the majority of magic -> Pale Tree Dies off -> Dragons go to slumber -> Minions stick around ?!?

wow I actually like this theory. May I ask what inspired it?

What is bugging me with the theory that other Pale Trees existed in the past is that there’s no record anywhere of it.

You’d think something like that would have at least been recorded by the Dwarves and Forgotten. Or at least mentioned by Glint.

To the OP: That hypothesis is possible since the Pale Tree was a sapling during Eye of the North. The whole storyline of Eotn is about Primordius’s awakening.

There is pre-GW2 lore that seems to indicate the possiblity that Sylvari existed in the past. Check this out:

“And it was that a tribe of godless humans wandered the land. Where camped did they lay waste, senselessly destroying everything nearby.

And so the tribe set out to find another camp, when suddenly sprouted a wall of thorny branches, which blocked their exit.

Then saith Ewan, leader of the tribe, “Know ye our ways. Whosoever does magic in this tribe shall be put to death.”

Yet none comes forward. Then, from the earth grows forth a large tree, and unfurling its branches, reveals the upper torso of a woman. Saith She, “I am Melandru, the Mother of earth and nature. Henceforth I bind ye to these lands. When they suffer, so shall ye suffer.”

And as She saith, so was it done. From their limbs sprouted branches, and the blood in their veins was the sap of trees. Then was Ewan and his tribe converted, and became they stewards of nature."

— Scriptures of Melandru, 48 BE

I got this tidbit from http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Melandru AND http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ewan

Of course, this bit of Melandru lore was written from an ancient human’s POV. It sounds as if the writer had encountered Sylvari that exhibited similar behavior to the Nightmare Court.

Also, back in GW1, there were humanoid vegetable monsters in the Meguuma area. I wonder if those guys are related to our GW2 Sylvari.

Leallax.1482:

wow I actually like this theory. May I ask what inspired it?

Seeing the long version starts roughly when I was born, I will save you my live’s story and go straight to the short version… :P

I played GW1 since beta, as well as GW2, so there is a lot of residual information. The thing that sparked it, I think, was when I figured… ‘Ok, the pale tree is not a dragon, It might not even be an intended champion of a dragon, so what is it…. Ok wait, these dragons are a cyclical event, what if the pale tree too is a cyclical event, so ok, that would mean this previous tree would have made sylvari. Well, we have no account of those, what does the pale tree do really… well in one of the earlier dev talks about the Pale tree it was said she created sylvari (like humanoids) because that is what she found around her when she grew up. Ok, so hold it there, she makes what she finds around her, if that wouldn’t have been humans or any other high sentient being it would be what ever else she found… but in plant form…

Thus I was reminded of all the plant life on Tyria, and due to parts of this episode revolving around the Maguma, and close to the Henge, also somewhat to the Druids. But these were drawn back human spirits. So then what else. Well Oakheart and the like, aloe seeds, and some other hideous plant creatures (Thorn Stalkers). Which I would have to say: I linked to the Seed of the pale tree prior to GW2 coming out, on a different forum, to a cave that ‘might’ have been the cave where Ronan found the seed in ’Ettin’s back’ which is also the location of Ventari’s refuge.

anyways, so, I once again searched for ‘plants’ on gw1wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Plants then saw the http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unnatural_Growths … and linked that to Scarlet and CoE – still fresh in my mind. But also, the mention of ‘high concentration of magic’ and the whole ‘role’ the Dragons are said to fullfill, then obviously made me think: What if it is this magic that effected a tree to become a ‘pale tree’ … And I think I made the full circle now … still longer than I expected, but hey, at least I left my whole life out of it ;D

Also @Redstar, then I came to think of what else could point towards there being a cyclical ‘pale tree’. Well, what else lives in the dense jungle. In both GW1 and GW2 it’s mostly Centaur as ‘original population’. So, Ventari was a centaur, and he apparently was inspired by a much older teaching of peace and love. And also, they refer trees very much… well that is convenient, a lesser race that lives in the Maguma Jungle that warships trees and spirits of nature…

Mostly then at Redstar, well see, there wasn’t that much going on in the Maguma Jungle by the looks of it. Only truly old structures that I know of, are the ‘likely’ Mursaat ruins where now lies Rata Sum. And a Baltazar’s statue deep in the forest. And as that older Pale Tree might not have made actual sentient creatures to begin with, how would the sentient creatures of those days know what they were. More then likely they would have linked them to Mordremoth… In that sense, Glint wouldn’t have known about that Pale Tree either… I mean ‘how would she?’. Apparently the only creatures that might have come into contact with the tree may have been the Centaur. Who then, like the Grawl of today worshipping things, started to worship the tree, it’s teachings may then have inspired the whole ‘religious belief’, which then would have inspired Ventari, which in turn inspired the new tree. Though she might not have needed said inspiration to begin with…

@kta, that reads more like the origin of the Druids though, turned into ‘Oak Hearts’ to then after death turn into ghost like Oak Hearts revered to as Druids in GW1. But I will say that in that sense Melandru does sound like a possible candidate for being a ‘previous’ Pale Tree, sprouted during the last rise of the Dragons.

This is pretty close to my thinking on the matter.

As another consideration: the Wardens in Echovald, and their relationship to Urgoz.

Very interesting. It’s very possible as a lot of the land was unexplored in Guild Wars by humans dew to hostile races and wildlife.

On a side note, would the undead in Guild Wars be the first minions of Zhitan? And kilbran like a Dragon champion/worshiper?

In regards to the OP, I would like to say that I mostly posted this theory for offering ‘a different perspective’, not necessarily one that has to be true. So basically an alternative amongst other possible ways to see the Pale Tree …

For me the whole vision, with the order of lighting up the orbs, in relation with the awakening sequence of the Dragons themselves, and what the Champions are (deducted) supposed to achieve (w/e that is) to truly awaken their Dragon, still makes the Pale Tree a high candidate for a champion of Mordremoth, with a severe case of ‘the Glint’.

Aka. The Glint ‘infection’ brought on by the circumstances of the Tree’s upbringing, caused it to not fulfil it’s duties as a Champion of Mordremoth, and due to that Mordremoth’s slumber (even though being the ‘4th to be lit up’) took it way longer than intended and was it the 6th to actually wake up.

As an explanation for the whole vision, in relation to actual affairs, that fits very well… still though until we can get some more information that can confirm one or the other, I personally think it is a good thing to look beyond that and come up with other hypothesis that can make sense as well. Be it though, that this hypothesis needs another explanation for the vision…

BrotherBelial.3094:

On a side note, would the undead in Guild Wars be the first minions of Zhitan? And kilbran like a Dragon champion/worshiper?

Well that all depends on whether or not minions stick around after their dragon returned to slumber…

And depending on your point of view, if all magic is consumed by the dragons and then ‘bled’ out again over time, in their ‘colour’. Is then any object infused with it, or any spell using said magic. Or indeed any ‘minion’ created, in a sense linked to said dragon??

So at first I wouldn’t go that far, personally I think the relation between the un-dead in GW1 with Orr (through the Orr emblems) may have had more to do with the spell that sunk Orr, than it having to do with Zhaitan ‘persee’ (even though he was right below there bleeding his un-dead magic into the world). In a sense I would say that the un-dead in GW1 were more like the Ascalonian Ghosts we see ‘today’ in GW2.

Arghore.8340:

In regards to the OP, I would like to say that I mostly posted this theory for offering ‘a different perspective’, not necessarily one that has to be true. So basically an alternative amongst other possible ways to see the Pale Tree …

For me the whole vision, with the order of lighting up the orbs, in relation with the awakening sequence of the Dragons themselves, and what the Champions are (deducted) supposed to achieve (w/e that is) to truly awaken their Dragon, still makes the Pale Tree a high candidate for a champion of Mordremoth, with a severe case of ‘the Glint’.

Aka. The Glint ‘infection’ brought on by the circumstances of the Tree’s upbringing, caused it to not fulfil it’s duties as a Champion of Mordremoth, and due to that Mordremoth’s slumber (even though being the ‘4th to be lit up’) took it way longer than intended and was it the 6th to actually wake up.

As an explanation for the whole vision, in relation to actual affairs, that fits very well… still though until we can get some more information that can confirm one or the other, I personally think it is a good thing to look beyond that and come up with other hypothesis that can make sense as well. Be it though, that this hypothesis needs another explanation for the vision…

BrotherBelial.3094:

On a side note, would the undead in Guild Wars be the first minions of Zhitan? And kilbran like a Dragon champion/worshiper?

Well that all depends on whether or not minions stick around after their dragon returned to slumber…

And depending on your point of view, if all magic is consumed by the dragons and then ‘bled’ out again over time, in their ‘colour’. Is then any object infused with it, or any spell using said magic. Or indeed any ‘minion’ created, in a sense linked to said dragon??

So at first I wouldn’t go that far, personally I think the relation between the un-dead in GW1 with Orr (through the Orr emblems) may have had more to do with the spell that sunk Orr, than it having to do with Zhaitan ‘persee’ (even though he was right below there bleeding his un-dead magic into the world). In a sense I would say that the un-dead in GW1 were more like the Ascalonian Ghosts we see ‘today’ in GW2.

Well seeing that Drakar could corrupt svanir while it slept, surly all the dead body’s falling on to Zhitan may have been animated by his champion. And Kilbran corrupted like Svanir. After all they where after the Scepter of Orr which is/was a power full magical weapon. So much so it “teleported” it’s self away to stop its self from being destroyed by the Volcano erupting. If the undead in Guild Wars had stuck to Orr then I would agree they where like the Foefire ghosts. But they act differently, they are after something magical, like the undead in the PS feed magical items to the mouths of Zhitan. It could be that the Scepter of Orr is a weapons so power full that I can brake the hold that a dragon has over a minion as Kilbran showed in the Sanctem Cay mission