Guild Wars 2

Very much so

And that Anise was in fact the queen. It is, in all honesty, a very clever way to protect yourself.

Huh. That’s an interesting development. And a very clever one, indeed.

Mine is a bit more sinister…hahaha. Same sort of thing, but Anise working for the White Mantle. But really, right now, her intentions are really vague. It’s really intriguing, the way she presents herself vs. the way she is being presented. There’s just so many mysteries surrounding her. And I’m particularly interested in her possible involvement in the murder of Minister Brios.

Same goes for Queen Jennah. What if… what if… she’s just an illusion? What if she’s that woman being tortured in Marjory’s backstory? What if they didn’t really anticipate Scarlet’s attack during the Queen’s Jubilee and the illusion was just conveniently there? What if, the reason why the Seraph spies at the Hidden Lake are taking so long to get recalled back to Divinity’s Reach is because the current ruling body isn’t really aware they’re there (secret mission and all). On the flipside, there’s the fact that Anise acts as an adviser as well as bodyguard for the Queen, so there’s still the possibility that she knows about the Seraph posted at Brisban Wildlands.

Another thing that’s been bothering me is the fact that the devs changed Jennah’s original costume design. From blue & gold (Shining Blade colours) to white & gold (White Mantle colours). I mean, sure, it’s probably done for purely aesthetic reasons…to create a distinction between characters, but why white and gold of all colours?

So many questions right now. And so many possibilities. Honestly speaking, the more I look at this right now, the crazier it all just sounds. : ))

Matthew Medina said this about the theory of her being an illusion:

“Haha, no my posts are not some “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” diversion. By all means, this is an interesting discussion. Although I think the evidence that Queen Jennah being real is fairly well established, I actually do enjoy reading the theories about her being nothing more than an illusion in the same way I’m fascinated by web pages which describe how we never landed on the moon, or that 9/11 was a cleverly orchestrated government plot. :-P
I too have argued that we need a “hide footwear” option on characters, but to no avail. We got the option to hide gloves/gauntlets not that long ago, and that was in response to a bug that was needed to be fixed. hint”

My tip on the Queen: Queen Jennah is actually hostage of the shining blades.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

My tip on the Queen: Queen Jennah is actually hostage of the shining blades.

No please,! I need some good guys still running in DR. As for now Reading all the posts i only trust Seraph under Logan command and shining blade as solid Royal guards

its beginning to be too realistic with “the world doesnt come in just black and White” scenarios. Let the Hollywood spirit with clear good guys bad guys flourish in Tyria

@Blurk: LMAO I see, I see… at least we got that out of the way. : ))

@Horst: Interesting theory. Either way, it’s almost undeniable that there’s something not quite right with the current Krytan government. Plus ANet has a penchant for adding some sort of betrayal in the stories, so who knows.

@Camarell: I’ve been hearing convos about how ANet wanted the story to have the same sort of ambiguous morality and the sense of “no one’s safe” like Game of Thrones. Not sure if this is true, but yeah.

Camarell.5648:

Horst Hortensie.5420:

My tip on the Queen: Queen Jennah is actually hostage of the shining blades.

No please,! I need some good guys still running in DR. As for now Reading all the posts i only trust Seraph under Logan command and shining blade as solid Royal guards

its beginning to be too realistic with “the world doesnt come in just black and White” scenarios. Let the Hollywood spirit with clear good guys bad guys flourish in Tyria

/Caudecus is the good guy

Ultimate twist.

He’s not actually bald.

SkeletalHorses.2108:

Huh. That’s an interesting development. And a very clever one, indeed.

Mine is a bit more sinister…hahaha. Same sort of thing, but Anise working for the White Mantle. But really, right now, her intentions are really vague. It’s really intriguing, the way she presents herself vs. the way she is being presented. There’s just so many mysteries surrounding her. And I’m particularly interested in her possible involvement in the murder of Minister Brios.

Same goes for Queen Jennah. What if… what if… she’s just an illusion? What if she’s that woman being tortured in Marjory’s backstory? What if they didn’t really anticipate Scarlet’s attack during the Queen’s Jubilee and the illusion was just conveniently there? What if, the reason why the Seraph spies at the Hidden Lake are taking so long to get recalled back to Divinity’s Reach is because the current ruling body isn’t really aware they’re there (secret mission and all). On the flipside, there’s the fact that Anise acts as an adviser as well as bodyguard for the Queen, so there’s still the possibility that she knows about the Seraph posted at Brisban Wildlands.

Another thing that’s been bothering me is the fact that the devs changed Jennah’s original costume design. From blue & gold (Shining Blade colours) to white & gold (White Mantle colours). I mean, sure, it’s probably done for purely aesthetic reasons…to create a distinction between characters, but why white and gold of all colours?

So many questions right now. And so many possibilities. Honestly speaking, the more I look at this right now, the crazier it all just sounds. : ))

The biggest interesting thing for me is the color changee in Jennah’s wardrobe. _

Shining Blade colors to White Mantle colors sounds kinda specific. Kind of amazing that you figured this out.)

If Jennah was kept somewhere shouldn’t she be able to call Logan through their magic bond?

but what really bothers me about the Queen is that even if the humans are at war with the centaurs, they are just outside DR, what does she do? She celebrate her 10 years of reign with an expensive celebration, opening a pavilion with games that was attacked by a crazy woman and now stay closed. It’s a money sink, a very bad investment in very bad time.
And she is 10 years on the throne, and she still have not a husband nor a heir. Does she think she will be forever young?
She is a bad Queen and she need to go.

idk, I think with the great collapse they determined they couldn’t build much there anyway so they made some pretty reinforcements to the area and simply changed it from being an unusable eyesore to a minimally useful fair ground.

Also yea, I’m having flashbacks to FFX-2 here imaging Kasmeer going “Logan! A Daddy!”.

I wish Jennah was actually a member of the White Mantle and that we will need to defeat her. I really don’t like her, so I call dibs for the first punch in her face!

Hey there everyone! Been a long time again!

SkeletalHorses found something interesting today. It’s from the Twitter feed of Arena Net writer John J Ryan.

https://twitter.com/John_J_Ryan/status/451126231413428224

Now, it’s really too bad the post is on April Fools and we know better than to trust anyone on that day, but here’s to hoping this is an actual post about actual work he’s done. Haha!

What do you guys think? Is he hinting towards the White Mantle? Or something else entirely? XD

Technically in my time zone it was posted on April 2nd. So I could argue with him that to me it was true!

But I guess we are heading towards something similar. I once asked Ree Soesbee about Livia’s whereabouts, she said “I can’t say anything about it now”, so I guess maybe the topic’s theory is right ^^

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Technically in my time zone it was posted on April 2nd. So I could argue with him that to me it was true!

But I guess we are heading towards something similar. I once asked Ree Soesbee about Livia’s whereabouts, she said “I can’t say anything about it now”, so I guess maybe the topic’s theory is right ^^

Hahahaha! If we were right that would be way more than what we expected when we first wrote up this theory. XD Would be quite awesome though if we were. XD

I for one would love to see the devs touch on things that exist within the Guild Wars universe that have such old roots. XD For me, it gives the world a really nice feel when you see all the deep lore touched on again. XD

Apparently there were some lore-documents switching hands yesterday about a certain mysterious religious sect.

Might be related, might not be.

https://twitter.com/John_J_Ryan/status/451126231413428224

lordkrall.7241:

Apparently there were some lore-documents switching hands yesterday about a certain mysterious religious sect.

Might be related, might not be.

https://twitter.com/John_J_Ryan/status/451126231413428224

Oooh, Mursaat.

“A certain” makes it sound like he is directly telling us it’s White Mantle, like when someone breaks a lamp and you say “well if a certain someone hadn’t broken the lamp we’d be able to see now.” Or maybe I’m reading in to it too much.

The thing was posted on 1st of april. I don’t buy it.

It doesn’t seem absurd enough to be an April Fools’ gag. It’s like “Hey honey, I got milk on my way home.” “Thanks dear.” “Just kidding, April Fools’!”

Gnat.9405:

Is it bad that I’m only checking this thread (and most others) just to see how Konig will blow it to smithereens?

I was going to leave it a couple of days before formulating a response to this thread, but on seeing this, I thought I’d weigh in now, even though 1) the comment was made three weeks ago and 2) I’m going to regret staying up late to do so tomorrow…

In short – While neither of us have been able to keep up so well with the forum lately due to RL complications, we and other members of the guild discussed the ramifications of Scarlet’s plot at around the same time and came to parallel conclusions. There are some minor flaws (technically, the Queen is supposed to be in overall charge of the Seraph, although the Ministry certainly can and does subvert officers within the Seraph to compromise that) but the overall flow of the theory is sound and along much the same lines to what we were thinking.

Anyway, working through things that have come up:

The ’It’s Too Human-Focused’ objection.

While ArenaNet is certainly trying to make the game more focused on the five races as a whole than on humanity, humans are still one of those races. It’s one thing to give everybody equal spotlight. It’s quite another to give one of the five (and the one that is still the most popular) none of the spotlight at all.

ArenaNet has already copped a bit of flak for going into Orr, the most significant location in the entire world for human lore, and given humans… basically, nothing. In the holy city of the human religion, the fact that humans had that religion and other races didn’t meant nothing, and other races took all of the spotlight. To go into the region that the White Mantle went into and then not give them any presence whatsoever would be a travesty, hopefully one they’re wise enough to avoid.

Secondly, the escape of the White Mantle into the Maguuma was set up after Guild Wars 2 was announced, so it’s reasonable to presume that they did so with plans to bring the White Mantle back in at some point. The role reversal – that the WM are not the subversives while the Shining Blade is the secret police rooting them out – is enough of a difference that this doesn’t feel like it’s invalidated WiK.

Finally, consider the Sinister Triad. Likely, the White Mantle is in alliance with the Inquest and the Nightmare Court as well, even if the other two (and many of the WM’s patsies) don’t realise just who they’re allied to, which brings the asura and sylvari into that plotline (plus, we already know the inquest has an interest in the mursaat). It’s also worth noting that there’s a sylvari personal story step that reveals that the bandits in Brisban aren’t common thieves – they think of themselves as revolutionaries aiming to bring down Jennah’s “corrupt” government. Malyck’s tree, and the possibility that the WM have been interfering with it, brings in another possible angle.

It’s also worth noting that, IIRC, a couple of ArenaNet’s writers have noted that they’d love to bring the WM back, but they don’t want to unless they can do it properly.

On the Symbols

To be honest, the WM symbol and the bandit symbol, to me, make me think of the Elves/Eldar in Warhammer, and the distinction between Eldar and Dark Eldar runes representing the same thing. One is organic curves and straight lines as befits a conservative culture – the other is all sharp points and jagged edges for the dark, edgy and violent Dark Eldar.

The two symbols may represent something similar. In GW1, the White Mantle was representing itself as the established government, a force for peace and security for all within the nation (who aren’t Chosen). In GW2, however, they’re basically looking to get most of their recruits from anarchists and delinquent gangs. Thus, their symbol has replaced – or been altered – to something less stodgy and conservative to something cool and edgy, the sort of thing their target audience would respond to.

However, when you analyse the elements, they both represent the same thing. The ‘halo’ semicircle across the WM symbol has those eight Y-shapes coming out of it – hinting at the feathery tendrils of the mursaat. In the modern bandit symbol, it’s a much more explicit image of wings. Either way, though, the underlying concept appears to be the same – you have the look of a figure with a robe and wings. A stylised representation of the mursaat – disguised enough that most people won’t see it, but those in the know will know it is there and take inspiration from their shared devotion to the Unseen Ones.

(will comment on page 2 in a seperate post, due to 3000chars)

Shiren.9532:

maybe they will even link it to the people Kasmeer’s brother gambled with (Tyria would become a really small place if they went that far).

Not necessarily. To me, the story of the Meades looks like a pretty clear-cut case of conspiracy to bring the family down – possibly because they found out something they shouldn’t, possibly because someone just had a grudge. A rival with power in the Ministry is an obvious culprit, but both want the removal of the Queen and both work hand-in-glove with the bandits… just how seperate are the White Mantle and the anti-royalist faction in the Ministry really?

On the Screenshots:

Most of those have been there since release. Not sure about the Priory one.

The Bloodstones:

Nitpick, but there were only five major pieces – four (the original four primary casters – elementalists, mesmers, monks and necromancers) plus the Keystone.

On the Queen’s Colours

I suspect this might actually be a case of the White Mantle having chosen colours that would make them more likely to be accepted, actually. The Krytan colours have actually been white and gold since long before the Mantle, as shown by the Krytan royal flag in GW1:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/1/1b/Kryta_banner.jpg

So Jennah’s white and gold is simply representing her family colours (and also, incidentally, those of the Seraph). So it’s likely that ArenaNet initially gave her the SB colours, and then realised that the current colours were more appropriate for her.

It’s also worth noting that the connection between the WM and white and gold actually isn’t all that strong in Prophecies. Knights and priests – probably the two that most Krytans would have the most experience with while the WM was still presenting itself as legitimate – are gold and white. Savants are gold and black, Scouts are white and green… and the Ritualists and Sycophants, which you’ll note are suspiciously absent from sections of the game where the White Mantle are still the good guys and thus care about their reputation – are predominantly red in the first case and green and white in the second. The signature “white mantle” that gives them their name is actually, in-game, only worn by their priests, which actually makes it a bit of a misnomer. It wouldn’t surprise me if they originally had another name for themselves, before they decided to go with the name given to them by the rest of Kryta.

Oh wow, been away for a while, real life caught up with us! 8D

Also got totally into the game because of the WvW tourney and the April Feature Pack so we haven’t been on the forums for a while.

Saw a reddit thread today discussing the very same thing our theory was so I remembered this thread!

Here’s to hoping people are still interested in talking about bandits and what not! <3

Something I just noticed today, from Marjory’s story,

He buried his face in his hands. “They took a…woman…into a cellar. They used dark magic on her. She screamed, but it was silent. Her mouth opened, but no sound came out. Her eyes…”

“Okay. Who did this?”

For the first time, the ghost boy looked straight at me, and he said, “Minister—”

When I first read that months ago I thought “oh, interesting, a Minister practising occultic magic”. But I’ve been reading around the bandits, separatists, and White Mantle on the wiki quite a lot recently, and it struck me just now that we already have a link between the Ministry and the occult. As has been noted already, the White Mantle seem to be behind at least some (personally, I suspect most) of the bandits plaguing Kryta, even if those bandits are not aware of it. Who else has been found giving bandits orders? None other than the good Minister Julius Zamon.

Between that and what Mendel saw, we can conclude with a fair amount of confidence that the White Mantle have infiltrated the upper echelons of the Ministry. I think the Ministry’s motivation goes beyond “they miss ruling Kryta, like they did when Jennah’s father was ill”, and is more “they miss ruling Kryta, like they did 250 years ago”. Jennah has no heir; if she is taken out then the White Mantle will once again rule Kryta.

One final thing: we’re told we’ll discover the identity of “E” in season 2. That means it’s likely that the circumstances behind Mendel’s death will also be explored. Which, if it involves the White Mantle, is exactly what has been said in this thread!

There are also connections between Caudecus and the bandits, as shown in the Missing Sister arc. The common hypothesis, in fact, is that Minister Zamon was acting on Caudecus’ orders, and was set up to take the fall (fatally) to prevent that link from coming out, including the trial by combat (as a conventional trial might have brought evidence of Caudecus’ involvement).

That said, I don’t think the Ministry-WM connection goes back as far as you suggest – if Caudecus had been WM all along, he probably would have done more during his regency (although he may have done so in secret, of course). What strikes me as more likely is that he might have struck up a deal with the Mantle since, or there may be Mantle infiltrators among lower-ranking Ministers in his camp.