Guild Wars 2

I am having trouble logging into the game, so I thought that I would quickly post this whilst the idea remained fresh in my mind.
Is it possible that GW2 is an allegory about the clash of nature and technology? Consider the Elder Dragons as symbols of nature (or Tyria) herself, whilst the sentient races are symbols of technology.
The catalyst for this clash was Abaddon’s amplification and dissemination of magic to the various sentient races of Tyria. Magic, in a sense, is knowledge and knowledge, in a sense, is a realm of opportunity for technological advancement. Thus, with their enhanced understanding of the world around them, the Tyrians began to terra-form Tyria herself.
The main way in which the sentient races performed this is with new tools developed from resources stolen from Tyria herself. They took water, minerals and other living beings in their quest for power – things intended by Tyria to sustain already present naturally occurring processes.
For the sake of this paradigm we can consider that Nature is a form of biotechnology. For example, a waterway serves to water trees which filter the air and in so doing a naturally occurring (when we say naturally occurring we mean to say that the sentient races had no hand in it’s creation) filtration system functions. But the races of Tyria were not content to remain subjects of such systems. These systems, macroscopic in scope, introduce a fair degree of uncertainty for sentient beings who in turn, possessing will and thus volition, are afraid of the “unknown” associated with disturbances to the aforementioned naturally occurring systems.
Abaddon no doubt knew this and in his desire to challenge his fellow “gods” played on the fears of the sentient races, satiating their desire for security by providing them with a way in which they could overcome power imbalances within nature. Thus began conflicts between the races themselves (because one’s first fear is of one’s enemies) and conflicts with Tyria herself (the kitten and pillage of things considered inanimate and lacking sentience).
So then, the gift of magic set in motion a conflict between nature and technology within Tyria.

Now the races no longer live in harmony with Tyria – save for one, of course: the Sylvari (more on this later).
It may be that the Elder Dragons are Tyria’s response to the kitten and plunder of nature wrought by the sentient races. Each Elder Dragon’s rise has resulted in the disruption of said races. The Dwarves were forced to become stone, the Asura to flee above ground; the Krait and the Quaggan have been displaced and so on and so forth. Moreover, the Elder Dragon’s have actually changed the face of Tyria herself. Primordus’s rumblings, for instance, are responsible for seismic activity underground and the (possible) formation of new landmass. Kralkatorik has transformed part of Tyria into crystal. Zaithan has raised the sunken landmass of Orr above the seas once more, swamping populated areas with tsunamis. Just as importantly, the wrath of the Elder Dragons is directed toward every sentient race except for the Sylvari (as Sylvari are beyond the corruption of dragon). Without a doubt, there is a special place in dragon for the hatred of the sentient races within Tyria (remember that the Elder Dragons are thought to be related to the extinction of a number of races who previously possessed advanced technological societies “surprise surprise” elevated to their positions by magic.

It is accepted that the Elder Dragons feed on magic, but we don’t really understand the origins of the Dragons themselves or why the presence of magic (supposedly) alone is enough to rouse them from slumber.
Considering that magic has led to the woes of the world of Tyria does go someway toward helping us to understand the origins of the Elder Dragons. Importantly, Tyria may be trying to “stamp out” the presence of magic amongst the sentient races (we could speculate that Tyria is a living entity, a plausible theory which remains as such for now).
What Tyria wants is embodied in the Sylvari.

It has been stated in the Angel McCoy interview that the Elder Dragons balance magic. Tyria’s ambient magic is always increasing, and if it reaches certain levels, it becomes dangerous too everyone by being extremely chaotic and uncontrollable. The Elder Dragons basically work as Tyria’s immune system to a degree. Once Tyria’s magic levels reach a dangerous degree, they wake up and start devouring magic. When it’s back to an acceptable level, or there is no magic to be found (incase of the Bloodstone), they slowly starve and go back to sleep.

Stephen
I hope that’s not the case. I’d hate to think this MMO is really a Captain Planet episode in disguise. :-/

Erukk
If that’s true that’s really lame.

Well, it is certainly possible, as you have amply demonstrated, to think of GW2 in allegorical terms, but I cannot imagine that any of the developers had that in mind. The story just doesn’t have enough depth for that kind of symbolism. And besides, there are plenty of non-sentient, non-magic-wielding lifeforms targeted by the “wrath” of the dragons (wolves, fish, spiders, etc.). Even flora and geological formations are twisted by the dragons, and all in a way that detracts from the cycles of nature.

@OP: Magic in Tyria is treated as natural. Aside from what Erukk has said (though some things are off from what we were told in the interview), there’s the ranger profession to consider – though it’s not in-game anywhere, the lore behind the profession is that over the past 250 years rangers had stepped back from technology, which led them to delving into magic in nature in order to keep up.

So it isn’t a “nature vs technology” case, but rather “nature consuming vs technology and nature” case, since the Elder Dragons are beaten by technology, or rather magitech.

Erukk.1408:

It has been stated in the Angel McCoy interview that the Elder Dragons balance magic. Tyria’s ambient magic is always increasing, and if it reaches certain levels, it becomes dangerous too everyone by being extremely chaotic and uncontrollable. The Elder Dragons basically work as Tyria’s immune system to a degree. Once Tyria’s magic levels reach a dangerous degree, they wake up and start devouring magic. When it’s back to an acceptable level, or there is no magic to be found (incase of the Bloodstone), they slowly starve and go back to sleep.

Angel’s interview actually tells us that the world’s magic rises because of the Elder Dragons. While they sleep, they release magic into the world; while they are awake, they consume it. Think of it like sweating in your sleep, then waking up to drinking that sweat (yes, not the best of pictures, but it’s kind of like that from how the interview tells us).

If we kill the Elder Dragons then, theoretically, the world’s magic will remain constant.

Furthermore, there’s a few assumptions you make

1. It’s not said that a lot of magic = dangerous.
2. They actually consume to starvation every time from our understanding, so you’re making them out to be a lot kinder than they really are. Possible, but not likely.

I would argue that there has to be a constant increase of magic in Tyria, because if there wasn’t; magic would already be balanced and constant, as there would be no increase or decrease in the level of magic. Then, there would be no need for the Elder Dragons, since they natural role is to keep the magic balanced.

There would have to be either an outside force or a natural production adding magic to Tyria to have it become unbalanced, and therefore the need for the Elder Dragons to constantly keep it in check.

Do we have any exact or approximate timeline on when Thaumanova reactor incident occurred? Is it possible to have happened much before than we realize, before Asura came to the surface upon Primordus’ initial stirring in the depths? Although it is stated that the incident happened recently, I don’t think we have any concrete info on how recent.

In a topic related to Thaumanova fractal, Colin (if I remember correctly) mentioned that the reactor incident has changed the entire world and that its impact on Tyria is much larger than we realize.

Is it possible that the release of the huge amounts of chaos magic was what actually caused the ED’s to rise this time to balance it? Maybe Inquest were actually conducting experiments on a bloodstone fragment (one of the two which are still missing) and it leaked magic that caused the incident in the first place. Just a weird theory that just popped in my head.

The Thaumanova reactor explosion happened about a few days before the Personal story kicks in, the Snaff Prize. The building itself cannot predate the asura coming to the surface, because A) we had access to the area it is located in in GW1 and we surely would not have missed it being there, and why would they build it there, on the surface when they are still an underground race who are nervous about the whole concept of that thing we call the “sky”?

The thing I think this “Elder Dragons consume magic for the greater good” thing fails at the point where they are consuming magical artifacts, not the magic in the world.

Basically, by eating tons of relics, they get stronger, but that doesn’t affect any magic users out there, who are tapping magic.

@Erukk: who says the Elder Dragons’ roles are natural? Because all I got from Angel McCoy is “they consume magikittenil there’s none left, then they hibernate during which they expel magikittenil the world’s saturated with it, where they wake again to consume it” – the Elder Dragons, from this, are indeed a cycle. But a self-replenishing one.

Remove the Elder Dragons, and magic is constant. That’s how I see the interview. Of course, it wouldn’t be so if the Elder Dragons radiate less magic than they consume, and consume the same amount each rise (meaning that there is a constant increase in the world’s magic, but the Elder Dragons hasten that increase while hibernating, perhaps so they can rise sooner – given SoS, I don’t think the Elder Dragons ever have intention of going back to sleep).

@phaneo: I think it’s supposed to be weeks/days before the personal story began. It certainly wasn’t before the asura surfaced, given how it happened due to asura – possibly due to Inquest, which is even younger than the race’s surfacing.

But it’s definitely recent as in, happened in 1325 AE.

@Gandarel: Honestly, I don’t read Angel’s interview as the Elder Dragons actions being “for the greater good”. And if that is indeed what Angel meant, then it contradicts the personality of all Elder Dragon minions, as well as Kralkatorrik’s own mental thoughts as portrayed in Edge of Destiny.

I don’t see the Elder Dragons as a “natural part of the world” but rather themselves using the natural part of the world to their benefit – they consume magic, regardless of form, but because there’s so many of them, they cannot remain active in the world so they consume magic, hibernate and release to rise sooner than they would otherwise, and then rise again.

Everything about the Elder Dragons and their minions’ personalities tell us “they are not good guys” (doesn’t mean they’re ‘evil’ per se, but they’re not good), nor do I get the impression that they hold any intention of going back to sleep once they had their full.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Erukk: who says the Elder Dragons’ roles are natural? Because all I got from Angel McCoy is “they consume magikittenil there’s none left, then they hibernate during which they expel magikittenil the world’s saturated with it, where they wake again to consume it” – the Elder Dragons, from this, are indeed a cycle. But a self-replenishing one.

Remove the Elder Dragons, and magic is constant. That’s how I see the interview. Of course, it wouldn’t be so if the Elder Dragons radiate less magic than they consume, and consume the same amount each rise (meaning that there is a constant increase in the world’s magic, but the Elder Dragons hasten that increase while hibernating, perhaps so they can rise sooner – given SoS, I don’t think the Elder Dragons ever have intention of going back to sleep).

Angel did in the interview…

Angel McCoy : Magic is the lifeblood of Tyria. The entire world is infused with it, and it flows through everything via ley lines that criss-cross the planet.
The natural role of the dragons is to keep this magic balanced. From time to time, in the long history of the world, the dragons have awoken and begun to draw the world’s magic into themselves, reducing the level of magic flowing through the ley lines.

When the dragons have consumed enough and thus reduced the world to a low level of magic, they go back to sleep. From then on, the magic leaks from them, back into the world at a reasonable rate. Eventually, it builds up in the world again, and the dragons awaken again to tip the teeter-totter back in the other direction.

I’m guessing that at least a small amount magic is essential for survival, since she said the whole world is “infused” with it. It would explain why the Elder Dragons keep a low magic level behind when they go into hibernation. “We embody magic” afterall.

It is the natural role of certain areas of the world to have tsunamis and hurricanes, it doesn’t mean we won’t fight it. It’s the natural role of certain areas to have massive forest fires, but we still fight them. It is in our nature to fight that which WE deem is evil. And things that destroy our lives are deemed by us to be evil, however neutral they may really be.

I wasn’t saying they were a good thing, just a natural thing.

And we will have to fight them, since, as Oola said, “We embody magic”. The entire world is infused with the stuff. The land, water, plants, living things, dead things, and more importantly us. All of those things are targets of the Elder Dragons corruption/balancing act, since they are all part of the greater magical whole of the world, and we will stay targets as long as the Elder Dragons are active.

A war of survival in the end. Though, with unclear outcomes if we actually do kill all the Elder Dragons.

We will not know if we even kill the dragon truly until Zhaitan’s body is finally revealed…

I’m kinda hoping he survived, although weakened, and retreated to the Ring of Fire. Then Anet can make another Zhaitan fight. One where we don’t just stand there and press a single button.

Crossing my fingers, but I’m doubtful that will happen.

Erukk.1408:

I’m kinda hoping he survived, although weakened, and retreated to the Ring of Fire. Then Anet can make another Zhaitan fight. One where we don’t just stand there and press a single button.

Crossing my fingers, but I’m doubtful that will happen.

The entire story from lv 30 onward was the Zhaitan fight. The big red button was the last act, a finisher, after a long arduous battle. Zhaitan was in downed state before you enter Arah story.

The whole set up is actually plausible as it is now. If we are to fight Zhaitan when it’s ready for us, we would just get instajibbed and turned into risen, and that would be the end. The player heroes are not omnipotent. It would take the biggest deux ex machina for us to slay him in combat.

Erukk.1408:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Erukk: who says the Elder Dragons’ roles are natural? Because all I got from Angel McCoy is “they consume magikittenil there’s none left, then they hibernate during which they expel magikittenil the world’s saturated with it, where they wake again to consume it” – the Elder Dragons, from this, are indeed a cycle. But a self-replenishing one.

Remove the Elder Dragons, and magic is constant. That’s how I see the interview. Of course, it wouldn’t be so if the Elder Dragons radiate less magic than they consume, and consume the same amount each rise (meaning that there is a constant increase in the world’s magic, but the Elder Dragons hasten that increase while hibernating, perhaps so they can rise sooner – given SoS, I don’t think the Elder Dragons ever have intention of going back to sleep).

Angel did in the interview…

Angel McCoy : Magic is the lifeblood of Tyria. The entire world is infused with it, and it flows through everything via ley lines that criss-cross the planet.
The natural role of the dragons is to keep this magic balanced. From time to time, in the long history of the world, the dragons have awoken and begun to draw the world’s magic into themselves, reducing the level of magic flowing through the ley lines.

When the dragons have consumed enough and thus reduced the world to a low level of magic, they go back to sleep. From then on, the magic leaks from them, back into the world at a reasonable rate. Eventually, it builds up in the world again, and the dragons awaken again to tip the teeter-totter back in the other direction.

I’m guessing that at least a small amount magic is essential for survival, since she said the whole world is “infused” with it. It would explain why the Elder Dragons keep a low magic level behind when they go into hibernation. “We embody magic” afterall.

I think you entirely misunderstand my point.

All Angel says is that it’s in the nature of the Elder Dragons to consume magic (and effect keep it balanced). But that doesn’t mean it is – as you said – part of the world’s natural order. If it were, then the world would have been created around/simultaneously with the Elder Dragons. And I cannot see those things being that old.

Erukk.1408:

I’m kinda hoping he survived, although weakened, and retreated to the Ring of Fire. Then Anet can make another Zhaitan fight. One where we don’t just stand there and press a single button.

Crossing my fingers, but I’m doubtful that will happen.

Or better yet, they add in a fifth Arah explorable path where you go with Ogden to study Zhaitan’s corpse. And in that update, ArenaNet does a retroactive improvement to the Arah story dungeon.

We don’t need two fights with Zhaitan, since the fight with Zhaitan is repeatable. Rather than keep the bad fight in, replace it/revamp it!

Heinel.6548:

The entire story from lv 30 onward was the Zhaitan fight.

Technically, lvl 50 on.

30-50 is just you rising ranks in your order.