Guild Wars 2

I’m a huge fan of Guild Wars, been playing since Guild Wars 1, etc. I’m also a huge fan of fantasy novels, and to me the world of Guild Wars seems very poorly fleshed out. Let me give some examples.

Religious Diversity=Religious Tolerance? Since when? Even if we already let go the fact that the Humans and Charr have hated each other for a VERY long time, yet have no issue with 3 fairly new races showing up, we still have to contend with the fact that each of the 5 major races has a completely different belief system. Yet, in Tyria there seems to be total religious acceptance and a near total lack of racial biases, beyond the occasional salad joke about the Sylvari or the longstanding Charr/Human conflict. This seems completely ridiculous that I have yet to see a Norn arguing with a human about the Spirits of the Wild versus the Six gods, or an Asura debating the eternal alchemy with a Charr.

Politics is the root of all evil…except in Tyria. Besides some personal story missions that involved some Human political intrigue, and the obvious difficulties with the human-charr treaty, there’s almost no mention of politics at ALL in the game. For example, how does the human ministry work? How are ministers appointed to their positions? How do the Sylvari govern themselves at all? What are the actual political borders of the 5 races’ territories? What about the Asura and Sylvari? Their nations are rather close to each other, and yet there’s no record AFAIK of any sort of regional conflict.

Those are just two examples that I could think of that really bug me. If I’ve missed anything relating to these two things feel free to correct me.

Generally if there is a potentially world ending threat most political squabbles are a bit less important.

And yet most of the nations have sat there and done nothing towards ending the Elder Dragon threat until Guild Wars 2 begins. In fact, none of the nations actively contribute anything to the fight, it’s all the Orders.

I have to agree everyone is either friendly to the other races or has the potential to become friendly. The Grawl become friendly as do the Dredge and the Centaurs have an npc in LA that hints at the Centaurs becoming friendler. As soon as we elimante the Elder Dragons I cannot currently see much possabilty for the game to contuine.

To the issue of religious tolerance, its a simple matter of the different religions not seeming to be seeking converts. Humans place themselves above others because of their religion but don’t seek to convert them because the gods favor and bless humans. The Asura acknowledge the other deities but incorporate them into the eternal alchemy. Norn spirits aren’t gods but strong spirits who you should model your life after. More like saints. The Charr dislike everyone regardless of religion. Finally, none of the races can outright deny any of the others religions because in documented history the gods were physical beings that walked across Tyria. Sure their divinity can be questioned but the fact remains that they exist.

Not every charr is happy to be friends with humans (and vice-versa). Like centaurs, dredges, frogs, monkeys… they have “the potential”. So there always be a faction in a war and every nation have to treat not only the elder dragons but internal problems. So you can see a problem with politcs inside the walls of their nations (charrs vs flame legions, humans vs centaurs, etc…).
It´s not necessary to put a politic problem in cities with a multicultural diversity like lion´s arch.

And the religion, you must go to Brazil, and see what a multireligion people can be. We can even have fusion between religions forming new religions. Just like Tyria. You can see in their cities the segregacionism, even some NPCs can respond different to you because you are of another race, but in Lion´s Arch the multicultural ambient turn the religions intolerance off.

Gordunk.7289:

And yet most of the nations have sat there and done nothing towards ending the Elder Dragon threat until Guild Wars 2 begins. In fact, none of the nations actively contribute anything to the fight, it’s all the Orders.

That’s not entirely true nor their fault.

The humans have been too busy with the centaurs after the initial flood of Risen; the High Legions are preoccupied with ghosts, Flame Legion, formerly Ebonhawke and now the Dragonbrand; sylvari are new and have been proactive against the Elder Dragons for a while; norn are more or less in a civil war of Sons of Svanir vs. those just trying to live a legend and are not very united in the first place to really be a nation to fight an Elder Dragon. Only the asura have really had the chance to strike at an Elder Dragon but haven’t done so – probably partially due to themselves not being entirely united even if moreso than the norn (and also because they’re more intending to rule the world).

As Alex the Precise said, the diffrent religions aren’t in competition with each other.

Then again, there are pretty much only 2 religions (for the major races, at least) – the human gods and the Norn’s spirits; the Asura’s eternal alchemy is more of a concept trying to explain the universe than a religion per say, Charr are outright atheistic and Sylvari are pretty agnostic.

Also since both the human Gods and the Spirits of the Wild have been proven to exist (that whole “Kormir becoming a god” and “Owl sacrificing itself” thing respectively, just to give some examples) I don’t really see how they would compete with each other in a meaningful way.

I’m not exactly a lore buff on the minor races, but the only ones with any religion I can think of would be Hylek and their Sun thing, the Quaggan worshipping Melaggan (who’s been confirmed by the devs to be Melandru) and the Grawl worshipping basically anything powerful (The Mighty Oooh and that Grawl cave in Wayfarer Foothills come to mind).

I’m reminded of Agent Smith’s comments in ‘The Matrix’. We humans apparently just can’t handle the idea of a world not filled with conflict and troubles – it doesn’t feel realistic to us -_-;

It’s important to note two things about Tyrian religions, I think: one, that they tend to be polytheistic (having more than one deity); two, that they tend to be racial gods specifically. Polytheistic religions tend to be more tolerant than monotheistic religions, because believing in one does not preclude the existence of another. This is related to my second point – we have our gods, they have theirs. It makes sense. The Six are patrons and protectors of humanity, and always have been. To a human, the Spirits of the Wild are the norn gods, filling the same niche for a different people. There’s not problem believing in both of them – one of them’s just not ours.

Religions don’t have to clash. That’s most likely to happen if believing in one necessarily makes the other either false, or dangerous. There’s nothing that says ‘the Six are the only true gods, they want us to smite followers of other idols!’ Similarly, the Eternal Alchemy is an all-encompassing belief which can incorporate other gods just fine. There’s no real basis for religious conflict other than existing racial conflicts that religion might get dragged into.

As for politics, there’s evidence of political tensions among many races – just because it doesn’t conveniently break out into a coup as soon as we get there, doesn’t mean there’s no tension. The three legions work together but there are lines along which conflict could break out if, for instance, Smodur declared himself Khan-Ur and elevated Iron above the others. Ministers in Kryta are working to undermine the monarchy, but there are also common people who’d prefer a council, or a democracy, or who are die-hard royalists. Those discussions go on plenty without plot-relevant battles breaking out for our convenience.

Gordunk.7289:

How do the Sylvari govern themselves at all? What are the actual political borders of the 5 races’ territories? What about the Asura and Sylvari?

You seem to forget that people who say “Less violence, more violets.” need no such petty thing as a government, for they are good incarnate, and politics surely are beneath them (sylvari are SOOO lame).
Also, in asura personal storyline there is some politics, SPOILER, the arcane council uses the arcane eye as a de facto secret police to control the population (they try to cover up prof. gorrs research about the dragons, as in their opinion they are of no danger, and the research would only upset the population). When you confront head of the council he outright states that.
Another thing is, asura aren’t a race to care much for how much territory they control, they are just happy to do research in the allspark.
But aside from that, I agree, politics aren’t covered much in GW2 (less so than in GW1 anyway, but then again there was actually a surprising amount of politics and intrigue there).

Dessan.9420:

You seem to forget that people who say “Less violence, more violets.” need no such petty thing as a government, for they are good incarnate, and politics surely are beneath them (sylvari are SOOO lame).

Defending a favourite race here! But really, there probably aren’t so many sylvari in the Grove that they couldn’t make decisions by consensus if necessary, since they’re a new and relatively small race. On top of that, the Pale Tree has the kind of authority among sylvari that would usually be reserved for a God Emperor – if she commanded something, the large majority of sylvari would do it, I think, just on principle. She brought them into the world, she is a sort of leader of the Dream, the sylvari go to her for guidance in everything. Why wouldn’t they trust her judgement?

For interpersonal conflicts, I imagine the sylvari prefer to settle things between individuals. They have no kin or clan to get involved in a personal conflict, and their ideals of chivalry lend themselves well to an honourable, one-on-one solution, whether by duel or just argument.

Don’t the Luminaries/Wardens provide the governing structure? If not them, they have the Pale Tree

Lets not get real-life religion mixed up with in-game religion here. In real-life, religion is much more complicated since it is impossible to prove or disprove “God’s” existence.

Whereas in the game world, Gods do exist. Charr knows their “Gods” exist and have killed them. Humans know their Gods exist and worship them. Other races such as Asura/Norn also know of their existence. It’s a lot harder to motivate yourself for religious war when said God is so…non-mysterious, and not very hostile at all to the other races.

The humans worship their gods because their gods were physically present and took care of them for generations. The Norn worship their Spirits because (same deal) their spirits defend and empower them. The Charr see all ‘gods’ as tyrants and would happily punch any being in the face who tried to assert itself as a god over them; at best they just ignore any god or spirit. The asura see gods/spirits as just another type of cog in the Eternal Alchemy.

There is no reason for the different racial beliefs to fight, since outside of the Sons of Svanir and Flame Legion there aren’t any religious nutjobs in Tyria trying to force people to conform to any sort of worship they don’t want to.

Pietoro.2014:

There is no reason for the different racial beliefs to fight, since outside of the Sons of Svanir and Flame Legion there aren’t any religious nutjobs in Tyria trying to force people to conform to any sort of worship they don’t want to.

Good point. The ones that do do this are already creating conflict so…..

A-net to OP: You’re welcome :P

Alex the Precise.3654:

To the issue of religious tolerance, its a simple matter of the different religions not seeming to be seeking converts. Humans place themselves above others because of their religion but don’t seek to convert them because the gods favor and bless humans.

There was a human priest in Hoelbrak. He was there to convert anyone including Norn to the Six Gods.

runeblade.7514:

There was a human priest in Hoelbrak. He was there to convert anyone including Norn to the Six Gods.

Yes, I’ve encountered him and he’s quite an anomaly – certainly not normal human priest behaviour I would say, he’s the only missionary of the Six that I’ve ever heard of. I’d love to know more about him and why he’s there doing that, but I don’t think there’s much further context in the game right now. Because he’s so unusual, I feel he must have his own reasons!

6 Gods and perhaps 6 Dragons? …is there a link here?

No
Match them up for us

Mystic Starfish.2586:

No
Match them up for us

Since no one has ever done this I’ll match them for you:

Dwayna (life) – Zhaithan (Bad life)
Balthazar (fire) – Primordius (Bad fire)
Grenth (Ice) – Jormag (Bad ice)
Lyssa (shifting) – Kralkatorrik (Bad shifting)
Abaddon (water) – Bubbles (Bad water)
Melandru (growth) – Brambles (Bad growth)

What exactly is shifting?

And as was stated before, if you are going to use Abaddon you have to use Dhuum. Otherwise you have to use Kormir. Either original gods or new gods not mixtures, otherwise it makes no sense. In that case it would either be Dhuum =/= Jormag because Dhuum has no correlation to ice, or Kormir =/= Bubbles because Kormir has nothing to do with water.

To be honest, the problem is that the gods are not eternal or stable, only their domains of power are – and those domains tend to manifest differently under different minds, hence Kormir’s manifestation of the power she took up is rather different to Abbadon’s. I always consider her a goddess of light (the light of truth, etc), whereas even before he went bad Abbadon was a god of shadows, of the hidden (ocean depths, etc). Since both of these come from the same power, it’s hard to see it as consistent enough to match up to any of the (much more straightforward and consistent) dragons.

Near total lack of racial biases? Have you met the Separatists, or the Charr rebels, or the Flame Legion, or the Dredge government, or just been to Ebonhawke? Ebonhawke provides prime examples. Doesn’t ring true at all.

As for regional quarrels between the Sylvari and the Asura, it wouldn’t make sense to me. The Sylvari are a small population, and the Asura aren’t likely to care about macho region-politics rather than science. They recognise that the strength of their society isn’t based on its size.