Guild Wars 2

You heard it here first!

I didn’t really have a concrete theory until I realized that Tequatl is a thing. After I fought him and realized he was blind (also: Sunless), just like Kormir. He’s also a lieutenant/champion, a weaker dragon. Assuming a new god (like Kormir) is not as powerful as a god who has had millenia to work his stuff, that makes sense.

The other dragons are similar to the human gods in theme, maybe not name and form.

Balthazar > Primordus (fiery-ness)
Grenth > Zhaitan (obvious)
Lyssa > Kralkatorrik (purple, crystal-like branded area and creatures)
Kormir > Tequatl (blind)

Now the last two I have the hardest time piecing together. The deep sea dragon we know nigh nothing about, except that it caused tentacled things to rise in rivers and lakes. I just thought that seemed naturey/viney, tentacles and growing and what have you, thus Melandru. A stretch, still, who knows.

Then Jormag/Dwayna. I just noticed a similarity in colors, the blue-white of Dwayna’s air-theme and of Jormag’s ice and snow theme. There could be seen similarities between healing and preservation and the same preservation that comes from being frozen forever, but that is also a stretch.

Melandru > Deep sea dragon
Dwayna > Jormag

It’s been stated that the dragons were here before the human gods. Perhaps they came to this world and claimed it, burnt it to the ground to start anew, then slowly went to sleep. It probably took some time for their minions to die out/be lost/calm down, which is why destroyers and the great destroyer is mentioned in dwarven lore. I postulate that they went to sleep and somewhat of an “other half” awoke, and thus came the six human gods. They create, preserve, bring life until the natural cycle is over and they fall back into their dragon form to destroy and start anew.

tl;dr : dragons are mindless destroyers, gods are creators – two sides of the same coin. Human gods fall silent then the dragons rise. Thematically similar.

Telquatl is a champion of the Elder Dragon Zhaitan, not an Elder Dragon himself.

/thread?

DSD would be Kormir as she replaces Abaddon who was God of water, Dwayna is life,Etc, the opposite of Grenth who is Ice/death

there were more then a 1000 years till Exodus and the aweking of Primordus

Dormedas.9524:

Telquatl is a champion of the Elder Dragon Zhaitan, not an Elder Dragon himself.

/thread?

First paragraph, literally the 3rd and 4th sentence of substance.

Dwayna is not ice that her son domain which if you don’t no is Grenth. his called prince of ice. Melandru a sea dragon, its doesn’t fit. she is more unless the pale tree if you ask me. but that a different story all togather.

It’s an interesting theory, but Tequatl isn’t Kormir, no way. Also, there’s tons of dragons like him at Orr, so it doesn’t make sense.

However, I’m not sure about them being the dragons. Sharing the same power or something like that? Makes more sense to me.

I think it would work better as this:

-Zhaitan: Abaddon/Kormir (Abaddon was behind Orr’s destruction, also Grenth is the god of death, not undeath)
-Jormag: Dhuum/Grenth (Ice, and also, Claw of Jormag is made of ice bones)
-Primordus: Balthazar (Fire)
-“Bubbles”: Dwayna (Air) and/or Lyssa (Water)
-Kralkatorrik: Melandru (Earth)

Another theory, I could see more possible, is human gods and elder dragons being opposites. The “flaw” of both theories is we need one more dragon, but who knows, maybe there’s a 6th out there.

Disco.6342:

Dormedas.9524:

Telquatl is a champion of the Elder Dragon Zhaitan, not an Elder Dragon himself.

/thread?

First paragraph, literally the 3rd and 4th sentence of substance.

Kormir ascended to become a god of the same magnitude (and purpose, technically) of Abaddon. While she may be relatively new to the gods, the powers she inherited are just as potent as those of the other gods. Keep in mind that more than a few generations have passed since she came to be a god and has seemingly moved away from humanity on Tyria just as all the other gods have. To the people of Guild Wars 2, Kormir is just as much a god as any other, and is enshrined that way in Divinity’s Reach.

According to the wiki , the Dragon Champions have all been created by their respective Elder Dragon, thus meaning that there is a dissonance between how Kormir is perceived by both the characters and the players and how Tequatl is perceived.

I can’t absorb alot of this because godhood is handed down from a couple of different gods, and the match-up’s with the dragons don’t make sense. For instance Grenth the Prince of “Ice” could have to do with either Zhaitan, and Jormag if it was true

meh sounds cool, but doesn’t work out

There’s a Sylvari scholar outside the Priory that relates that there are Jotun legends which tell of six ‘Swallowers’ who periodically rise up to devour the world. The OP’s assumption was my immediate thought as well.

Dormedas.9524:

Disco.6342:

Dormedas.9524:

Telquatl is a champion of the Elder Dragon Zhaitan, not an Elder Dragon himself.

/thread?

First paragraph, literally the 3rd and 4th sentence of substance.

Kormir ascended to become a god of the same magnitude (and purpose, technically) of Abaddon. While she may be relatively new to the gods, the powers she inherited are just as potent as those of the other gods. Keep in mind that more than a few generations have passed since she came to be a god and has seemingly moved away from humanity on Tyria just as all the other gods have. To the people of Guild Wars 2, Kormir is just as much a god as any other, and is enshrined that way in Divinity’s Reach.

According to the wiki , the Dragon Champions have all been created by their respective Elder Dragon, thus meaning that there is a dissonance between how Kormir is perceived by both the characters and the players and how Tequatl is perceived.

One thing that you have to remember, Grenth is just a Demi-God, the reason for this is Dhuum is not dead just locked up in the Hall of Judgement. Grenth only did what he did because of his father had fallen and Dhuum was just playing hard with souls.

When its come to Kormir, well after what the Hunger did to her and what the other God said was how she manager to get to where she was.

Even prior to release this was theorized (albeit I lean a little more towards hypothesized, but new info may substantiate it beyond that) and as others have noted, while there are loose parallels, they are insufficient to make any claims of gods being dragons or dragons being gods.

What is somewhat more likely is that both groups of entities tap into some of the same domains of magic and express it differently, while still appearing similar because, well, drawing from the same energy/magic well. (E.g. energy as light, magic as necromancy, energy as sound, magic as fiery explosions, etc.)

Lonami.2987:

It’s an interesting theory, but Tequatl isn’t Kormir, no way. Also, there’s tons of dragons like him at Orr, so it doesn’t make sense.

However, I’m not sure about them being the dragons. Sharing the same power or something like that? Makes more sense to me.

I think it would work better as this:

-Zhaitan: Abaddon/Kormir (Abaddon was behind Orr’s destruction, also Grenth is the god of death, not undeath)
-Jormag: Dhuum/Grenth (Ice, and also, Claw of Jormag is made of ice bones)
-Primordus: Balthazar (Fire)
-“Bubbles”: Dwayna (Air) and/or Lyssa (Water)
-Kralkatorrik: Melandru (Earth)

Another theory, I could see more possible, is human gods and elder dragons being opposites. The “flaw” of both theories is we need one more dragon, but who knows, maybe there’s a 6th out there.

Melandru is nature and as far we know Kralkatorrik isn’t earth
Bubbles is water and Abaddon is water (His favo place was the crystal sea)

you can make comparinsons, but it will never be right

I’m more inclined to the possibility that the two groups are drawing their powers from the same “coin” so-to-speak, and then they have cycles. One dawns, the other sets, and the process repeats.

We can even argue that there is a possibility of ‘balance’ here. If an elder dragon is killed and no one replaced it, a god may either weaken or gets stronger than the rest. Remember how in GW, Kormir has to take the place of Abaddon? Why is it that they always have to remain 6, not less? Could it be that, if there is one less god, a particular elder dragon counterpart will either get weaker or stronger than the rest of the two groups, causing imbalance?

Remember, (sorry going technical here) stories like this always end up with “(keeping the) balance”. If the scale tips to one side or one individual, it may spell doom to the world. Some stories like D&D ended up creating a “neutral” alignment or Ultima7 Serpent Isle introducing “Balance” keeping the balance between “Chaos” and “Order”. In U7, when the serpent named Balance died (or was killed? can’t remember), the serpents Order and Chaos waged war against each other and almost destroyed the Serpent Isle.

In D&D’s DragonLance, the Light and Dark pantheons have to always be equal. The Red (neutral) pantheon must never have one less god than the Light and Dark pantheons lest a war breaks out. (It’s fine to have the Red/neutral group to have one more god/goddess than the Light and Dark.)

I wouldn’t be surprised if GW/GW2 lore ended up that way – keeping the balance. 6 elder dragons on the other side, and 6 gods on the other side. Good and evil = story.

Personally, I think there’s no need to match up the two sides. It probably wouldn’t work that way. What is important is that, it has been established that both groups have 6 members which represents two different sides of a coin.

I can already disregard this theory.
Anyone NOT done his personal story yet, please don’t read any further.

Putting it between spoiler tags, just in case!

However I can agree that they look similar though. But there are 6 Human Gods and only 5 Elder Dragons. If they are from the same coin, does this mean there is an unknown 6th Elder dragon as well? This means that the Tengu must know this as well. Or should know it. Unless that Elder dragon is not that old yet.

wouw.5837:

Melandru is nature and as far we know Kralkatorrik isn’t earth
Bubbles is water and Abaddon is water (His favo place was the crystal sea)

you can make comparinsons, but it will never be right

Abaddon was water, Lyssa is water now.

Guys, there are six Elder Dragons.
We have the following:
Zhaitan
Primordus
Jormag
Kralkatorrik
Deep Sea Dragon (Bubbles)
1 Unknown.

We have 5 human gods so it doesn’t make any sense. Also, Tequatl is not an Elder dragon, he is simply a general for Zhaitan.

Speculations are that the 6th Elder dragon is the Pale Tree from which the Sylvari are born. This explains why you fight the dragon in your dream.

I’d be much more inclined to believe that the elder dragons ate the six gods, and that’s why when they got up they all went to such random places and then just… hung out.

Digesting a god is difficult and takes time.

For the record the disparity in numbers doesn’t mean anything. We saw that we could just write in whole new gods (and then kill them and promote military commanders to the position) with nightfall, and Grubb+Soesbee have said that things are often intentionally left vague so they can write in major things of importance without having to slog through a lot of annoying retconning.

Exroyal.9053:

Guys, there are six Elder Dragons.
We have the following:
Zhaitan
Primordus
Jormag
Kralkatorrik
Deep Sea Dragon (Bubbles)
1 Unknown.

We have 5 human gods so it doesn’t make any sense. Also, Tequatl is not an Elder dragon, he is simply a general for Zhaitan.

Speculations are that the 6th Elder dragon is the Pale Tree from which the Sylvari are born. This explains why you fight the dragon in your dream.

What do you mean by Five human Gods. The last I checked there are six and I help one Ascend In GW1 which is Kormir the new Goddess of order, spirit and truth.

I don’t think that they ARE the human gods, but they’re surely linked to them somehow.
I see them as a brutal and kind of corrupted form of the gods.
I see one clear link with Balthazar and Primordius through fire.
The rest of them are not as clear, let me explain.

Lyssa could be related to Kralkarorrik due to the crystal, purple and shape-changing nature of the beast. But the corruption could be linked to Abadon. Lyssa can be related with the deep sea dragon too because of her relation with water.

Melandru could be associated with the viny unknown dragon or with the deep sea dragon because of Melaggan, the Quaggan goddess that looks exactly the same as her. But again the deep sea dragon shares the abisal trait of Abaddon.

I would relate Dwayna with Zhaitan, they both give life, even though zhaitan gives it to things that aren’t supposed to have.

I could say that Jormag’s icy nature has something to do with Grenth.

I think this goes like this:
Balthazar -> Primordius
Lyssa -> Bubbles
Melandru -> Letuce
Dwayna -> Zhaitan
Grenth -> Jormag
Abaddon/Kormir -> Kralkatorrik

It seems more likely that the gods are being fed upon by the dragons, as opposed to the dragons actually being them.

During the Asura Story you cover how the Dragons consume vast amounts of magic around them, and with each of the Dragons having an element the same as each god, it’s possible that it’s just that.

Kronaxx.2789:

I can already disregard this theory.
Anyone NOT done his personal story yet, please don’t read any further.

Putting it between spoiler tags, just in case!

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

In a personal quest on Orr you have to go to the altar of Grenth and you summon one of the 7 avatars of Grenth. He tells you that the Keeper has fallen to Zhaitan and that Grenth wants him back. Basically this right here tells me that the Human Gods are not the Elder Dragons or dragons however you want to put it.

However I can agree that they look similar though. But there are 6 Human Gods and only 5 Elder Dragons. If they are from the same coin, does this mean there is an unknown 6th Elder dragon as well? This means that the Tengu must know this as well. Or should know it. Unless that Elder dragon is not that old yet.

There are six Elder Dragons.

Exroyal.9053:

Guys, there are six Elder Dragons.
We have the following:
Zhaitan
Primordus
Jormag
Kralkatorrik
Deep Sea Dragon (Bubbles)
1 Unknown.

We have 5 human gods so it doesn’t make any sense. Also, Tequatl is not an Elder dragon, he is simply a general for Zhaitan.

Speculations are that the 6th Elder dragon is the Pale Tree from which the Sylvari are born. This explains why you fight the dragon in your dream.

There six gods.

John Widdin.9618:

It seems more likely that the gods are being fed upon by the dragons, as opposed to the dragons actually being them.

During the Asura Story you cover how the Dragons consume vast amounts of magic around them, and with each of the Dragons having an element the same as each god, it’s possible that it’s just that.

Which brings us to the cycles. First there were the six Elder Dragons. Then when they went to slumber, the Forgotten brought the six gods from the mists. Then these six gods brought the human race to Tyria, dropped them off “south of Cantha”.

Now, the cycle has returned to the ED again, where are the six gods? Silent. Retreated behind the scenes. Silent.

Ironically, the six gods were also the gods of the Jotun and other elder races. So there’s a problem there, because the six gods were supposedly brought by the Forgotten from the mist.

Unless there was an overlap. When the ED are starting to go into slumber, the Forgotten brought the six gods over. Remember how in GW1, the six gods were still active but starting to keep their silence while the ED are starting to stir?

They probably are using the same pool of magical leyline. Two sides of the same coin. Two groups siphoning the same source of power.

The six gods are silent, and not doing much direct action, for a VERY obvious reason.

Look at what happened last time the gods fought anything, aka Abbadon.
-The Crystal Sea was turned into a vast inhospitable wasteland
-An entire civilization of people, the Margonites, was effectively wiped out
-The place were Abbadon fell created an ever expanding “doom area” called the Desolation, that is even more inhospitable then the Crystal Desert

The gods don’t fight the ED because doing so would doom most of , if not the entire, planet into turning into a wasteland.

The gods aren’t the Dragons, or sharing Dragon energy, they just know that fighting the dragon themselves is dumb.

Guys. I got this.

Dragons have been around for ages upon ages. Kormir was made a god like 250 years ago. Thus, she /can’t/ be a dragon.

[/SUPERTHREAD]

If Kormir is going to be any of the dragons it would be the DSD.

Kormir is the God of Secrets and her element is water, both aspects of the DSD.

There are definitely some thematic trends, though they don’t match up neatly enough to simply say the Elder Dragons are the human gods. However, if the theory that the Elder Dragons are merely feeding off of Tyria’s underlying power currents themselves, then it is very possible that the human gods were also previously using these same power currents and that would explain some of the thematic similarities.

This would also explain why the human gods have been waning as the Dragons have been rising. They could be losing out against the Dragons in competition for these sources of power.

The idea also ties in nicely with the Pale Tree and the Sylvari, as the Dream could be a manifestation resulting from her own tapping into of these deeper power sources. The power behind the Dream seems to go deeper than the consciousness of one being, no matter how old and cool and wise that being may be. In the Sylvari storyline, afterall, the Pale Tree goes so far as to read the future.

Jenosavel.1756:

This would also explain why the human gods have been waning as the Dragons have been rising. They could be losing out against the Dragons in competition for these sources of power.

The human gods haven’t been waning in power though, they have only become more distant, something that had been doing since the exodus.

furthermore the human gods were gods before they arrived on Tyira, the energy they have comes from a different source.

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

The human gods haven’t been waning in power though, they have only become more distant, something that had been doing since the exodus.

furthermore the human gods were gods before they arrived on Tyira, the energy they have comes from a different source.

In Movement of the World it states, “The gods of the humans have been notably distant these past two centuries, withdrawing into silence even as the world beneath them shattered. Although they still answer prayers, they do not intervene—even as Tyria crumbles and the human race calls out desperately for heroes to save them from their darkening struggle.”

While this doesn’t say the gods are less powerful, I think its implied. Even after physically withdrawing from Tyria the gods still exerted considerable influence in the world. Yet suddenly they stop intervening when their followers need them most? And it happens at the same time the Elder Dragons begin to rise? That’s a mighty suspicious coincidence, at the very least.

As to the gods coming from outside Tyria, I don’t think we actually know that? I may not be a total lore buff, but I’ve been paying attention for some time and consider myself pretty fluent in GW lore. Where is a source for the origin of the gods? I’m pretty sure their origins (minus Kormir, of course) are a mystery. I don’t mind being proven wrong, though, if you have some new lore I haven’t found yet.

We do know they brought the forsaken and humans into Tyria, likely (IIRC, not 100% certain) from the mists. But they themselves?

And the earliest history we have of the gods being active in Tyria is after the last known activity by the dragons. The dragons go to sleep and the human gods show up? Another interesting coincidence, at the very least.

I can’t wait to dig deeper into GW2’s lore. There are so many questions to look for answers to.

Jenosavel.1756:

snip

The gods became distant at Exdous, which was 1,075 years before Nightfall, and during Nightfall itself, which was 50 years before the first ED awoke, the gods told you, the player character, “this is stuff you have do to on your own, we gave you the power ages ago, now use it, we aren’t going to hold you hand anymore.”

This silence did not occur when the Dragons awoke, it was a series of events that started long before the dragons even first stirred.

http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/02/guild-wars-2-interview/
“The gods predate the humans, but not by much. "

“The full story of the origin of the humans has yet to be revealed. They arrived in the Tyria (the continent) sometime after they first appeared on Tyria (the world). It seems, from their previous appearances, that they have come up from the south, so the “human homeland” may be further south than Elona and Cantha. "

Furthermore, lore from the Arah dungeon states that the forgotten were not brought to Tyria by the gods.

The Forgotten existed alongside the Dwarves, Mursaat, Seers, and Jotun, and were allied with those races, and fought the Elder Dragons the last time they awoke.

I thought something like this but with a twist.

We have 6 gods:

Balthazar, Dwayna, Lyssa, Grenth, Melandru and Kormir.

We have 6 dragons:

Zhaitan, Primordus, Kralkatorrik, Jormag, Bubbles and the 6th.

We know that dragons consume magic.
We know that each dragon has a champion or more than one.
We know that the dragons predate the Six Gods.
We know that the Six Gods taught magic to the races of Tyria in 1 BE.

When i just joined University (History) i learned a fun fact that my teacher called “Sowing Meat”. When portuguese ships sailed across the globe during the discoveries they used to leave a few pigs on each island. Those islands were not ready for them, they were not part of that ecosystem, and then what happened when the portuguese returned a few years later on another trip ? Lots of pigs. Lots of meat. They didn’t need to take meat with them anymore, they could grab it during their trips.

Now, back to Guild Wars 2.

We have those six gods teaching magic to the races of Tyria and encouraging the humans to fight the Charr.

Now, let’s stop a moment. Let’s say those six “gods” were actually champions of the Elder Dragons or the Dragons themselves in other forms. We don’t know what happens when a Elder Dragon is defeated, but we do know that they were defeated once (The Jotun, Seers, Mursaat, Dwarves and Forgotten faced them before). What if they indeed go to the mists when they are defeated and are reformed there to start a new “cycle” ?

So this time they bring a new creature with them – humans – teach them magic and in turn they are worshipped as gods. And they set this new creature to fight other creatures of Tyria.

Why would they do that when unity is what the races need to stop the Dragons ? It got me thinking, they teached magic to the races so they could eat them after. They were preparing them for the feast.

Also, Kormir might seems to be a broken link on this line of thought, but it’s not. We’ve seen how she ascended. But we don’t know what happened after that. What if she was corrupted by the same power that created the Elder Dragons ? I will get to this later.

Now, let’s talk about the gods and their powers.

Balthazar → Primordus.

No brainer here. Fire and agression.

Grenth→ Jormag

Grenth, the god of darkness, death, and ice. Death and ice. Jormag is all about death and ice. His minions aren’t alive, they are made of pure ice. And even the dead can be used in his army as seen on Edge of Destiny.

Kormir → Zhaitan

Let’s take a look at Kormir now. A newcomer in the pantheon of the human gods, she is the goddess of goddess of order, spirit, and truth. How is this related to Zhaitan, and how can she be a Dragon if the dragon were created BEFORE the Gods ? What if whatever created the Elder Dragons have the power to empower new ones ? Pretty much like how the EDs themselves can create new champions ? If so he is perfectly capable of corrupting Kormir and giving her new purpose. Her dominion over spirits is twisted so she can create hordes of undead.

Dwayna → Kralkatorrik

Dwayna is the goddess of goddess of healing, air, and life. Kralkatorrik is a huge sandstorm of pure hunger. How are those related ? First, Kralkatorrik seemed to have a great dominion over storms (air) and life (Corrupting it to create new minions). Now, remember ol’ Shiro ? He was corrupting the power of Dwayna. What happened to that ritual ? Yep. Everything became jade. It seems that corrupting Dwayna power has the hability to… turn things to stone. Kralkatorrik seems pleased.

Lyssa → Bubbles

Another no brainer. Lyssa is the goddess of beauty, water and illusion. Seems fitting to a unknow dragon that stirred in the deeps of the ocean and wrecked havoc amongst the underwater races.

And now finally:

Melandru → The 6th Elder Dragon

Meleandru is the goddess of nature, earth, and growth. It fits the Inquest description on their lab of a nature dragon. And since we have a dragon of each element, a “nature” dragon seems fitting. And growth ? This might even fight the Pale Tree theory. I don’t believe that the Pale Tree itself is a Elder Dragon or one of it’s champions, but i’d say that they were created by the Elder Dragon and was “saved” by Ventari and Ronan. Pretty much like Glint could see the error of her ways. And thus the Sylvari were raised to FIGHT the Elder Dragons and unify the people of Kryta.

Now, who created the elder dragons? Or are they a simple force of destruction ? Maybe the world itself is trying to reach balance. Or maybe they give magic to the sentient races just to return and consume it.

And if they do have a creator and the hability to create new EDs, well.. Let’s say we might have another good enemy.

It’s all speculation and i don’t think it’s the case. But it’s fun.

I think the Elder Dragons ate the Human Gods. That would explain why they left the Humans completely.

Atlas.9704:

I think the Elder Dragons ate the Human Gods. That would explain why they left the Humans completely.

Don’t think so.
It seems to me that they left because they wanted to, or they are indeed the same creatures.

@Hexicz.8450 what are you talking about Kormir been water. that Lyssa domian. Kormir became the Goddess of Order, spirit and truth. Adaddon use to be the God of secrets and water. after Adaddon fall Lyssa only took one aspect of Adaddon domain which was water but couldn’t take the secrets only Kormir ascension made her trun secrets to truth, order and spirits due to her believe when she was a mortal that made all this possible.

“heard it here first” – more like I heard it back in 2007. It’s a nice theory at the start, but as I pointed out in another thread on this forum, it falls apart.

There being 6 dragons, and 6 gods, sure sounds good start. Primordus and Balthazar are both fire – check. Melandru and this mysterious 6th dragon seem to be planty – check. Abaddon and the DSD are both water (Abaddon was the god of water and knowledge before his fall) – check. Grenth… no, wait, better go with his predecessor Dhuum – he’s death and death alone (never associated with ice), so only fits Zhaitan. Kralkatorrik… well, purple, but he has nothing related to illusions… so… he fits no one. Dwayna – air and life… not in the dragons either. Jormag, ice… fits Grenth but he wouldn’t count – not an original god.

So you’re left with:

Primordus-Balthazar
Unkown 6th dragon-Melandru
DSD-Abaddon/Abaddon’s predecessor
Jormag-none
non-Dwayna
Zhaitan-Dhuum
Kralkatorrik-none
none-Lyssa

You can stretch it to say Jormag=Lyssa, both being mesmeric in nature in terms of magic (Jormag corrupts mentally), but it’s a bit of a stretch.

Atlas.9704:

I think the Elder Dragons ate the Human Gods. That would explain why they left the Humans completely.

The gods left before the ED began waking. They also don’t match up that nicely. Furthermore, later in the personal story, you actually deal with the gods’ servants – I think they’d probably give a bit of insight of their draconic masters if the gods were dragons.

Not to mention that all depictions of the Six are humanoid (if not outright human), and they were seen by mortals. Mortals would know if their gods were dragons, having seen them. Whichever statues are Malchor’s (I think they’re in Arah itself, at the temple which the Giganticus Lupicus guards, but I haven’t seen anything regarding past that beast) will show their true forms, according to lore.

This official wiki text proves, that the Gods cannot be the Elder Dragons.
Also, the Gods are good beings and the Dragons are evil, no doubt of that.

GW2W

The Elder Dragons are a mysterious race of draconic creatures more dangerous than any one threat Tyria has ever faced before. Older than the Six Human Gods’ presence on the world, and dating to the time of the Giganticus Lupicus (if not further), these ancient creatures have been sleeping for thousands of years, forgotten by the races of Tyria, and wrought havoc as they awoke.

As much as I detest the gods = dragons theory for being silly and impossible, I believe people are matching the dragons and gods up wrong.

If we look at the Crucible of eternity it has 6 color zones, each one has its own environment depending on on the dragon is represents. Also each god has his/her own color based on what type of magic they use, as magic is intrinsically tied to color.

If we use the color and environment combination we can match up the Dragons to the gods that way

Purple=Kralkatroik=Lyssa
Red=Balthazar=Primordus
Black=Zhaitan=Grenth
Green=Unkown=Melandru
White=Jormag=Kormir
Blue=bubbles=Dwayna

Each god has their own color, each color has its own dragon environment. Based on those two things the above list is as correct as possible.

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

Purple=Kralkatroik=Lyssa
Red=Balthazar=Primordus
Black=Zhaitan=Grenth
Green=Unkown=Melandru
White=Jormag=Kormir
Blue=bubbles=Dwayna

Except Grenth is ice, too, like Jormag, and Zhaitan was under the place Abaddon sank.

Lyssa is water in GW2, so not sure about that one, too.

Well first off, Abbadon did not sink in Orr, he was destroyed in what became known as the Desolation. You even go to the very spot he was cast down in Nightfall.

Secondly, the Dragons do not match up to the gods in terms of what magic they use, but what source they draw from.

In Guild Wars magic is intrinsically tied to color, mesmerism is purple, fire magic is red, nature magic is green, necromancy is black, etc. etc.

Drawing from the same magical, or at least a similar, source is what links the Dragons and the gods, if any link were to exist.

But, in the end, it really doesn’t matter because its provable that the Dragons and gods are not the same.

To be honest, I’d say grenth was jormag. (cold)

Judging by Zhaitans inability to hit the broad side of a barn in the final battle of Arah, I’m pretty sold on zhaitan being blind Kormir.

Kronaxx.2789:

I can already disregard this theory.
Anyone NOT done his personal story yet, please don’t read any further.

Putting it between spoiler tags, just in case!

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

In a personal quest on Orr you have to go to the altar of Grenth and you summon one of the 7 avatars of Grenth. He tells you that the Keeper has fallen to Zhaitan and that Grenth wants him back. Basically this right here tells me that the Human Gods are not the Elder Dragons or dragons however you want to put it.

However I can agree that they look similar though. But there are 6 Human Gods and only 5 Elder Dragons. If they are from the same coin, does this mean there is an unknown 6th Elder dragon as well? This means that the Tengu must know this as well. Or should know it. Unless that Elder dragon is not that old yet.

Am I the only one sane enough to read his “spoiler”? Which is a pretty obvious proof that this theory is with 99% sure NOT correct?
You all just go for “ha, you’re not right, there are 6 dragons, not five, herp-uhkitten” Just read the thing between the spoiler-tags and remember this part of the story yourself (if you chose this branch like I did).

Try 100% not correct, Mirodir. It is practically outright stated that Grenth and Zhaitan are opposing forces (not in those words, but they’re both vying for the same soul). Along with this, throughout the personal storyline, the servants of the Six Gods all denounce their gods (from Lyssa to Grenth).

The only priestess to not fully denounce their god is the Priestess of Dwayna – whom we see a sculptor of her true form at her Cathedral of Zephyrs (looks like a largos) crafted by Malchor (and during the event chain, possessed by him too). The priestess of Dwayna reveres both Zhaitan and Dwayna – so I’ve been told at least – but still as different entities.

Dragons are not the gods. This is now a proven fact.

I think it’s interesting to note that there are currently 5 playable races and 5 known dragons.
http://i.imgur.com/vKP7D.jpg strongly suggests that in a previous awakening of the dragons, 6 races were necessary to combat the 6 dragons. The Gods seem to want to stop the dragons, but can’t do it directly (the Dragon’s as consumptive foils to the Gods? The more the Gods use their powers, the stronger the Dragon’s hunger is to devour and reclaim that spent energy?).

Nothing concrete, but if i remember correctly during the event at the Cathedral of Eternal Radiance in Malchor’s Leap, the Risen Priestess of Lyssa shouts at you “The dragons will devour you just as they devoured our Gods”. I don’t know if thats a slip in the story or just rubbish. You decide.

Rubbish. The minions of Zhaitan are so fanatic that they believe every single lie he tells them. There are other minions that yell similar things, but it’s not true. They are probably trying to break the moral of their partially human attackers, using their former religious authority as basis.

Pohsib.7605:

I think it’s interesting to note that there are currently 5 playable races and 5 known dragons.
http://i.imgur.com/vKP7D.jpg strongly suggests that in a previous awakening of the dragons, 6 races were necessary to combat the 6 dragons. The Gods seem to want to stop the dragons, but can’t do it directly (the Dragon’s as consumptive foils to the Gods? The more the Gods use their powers, the stronger the Dragon’s hunger is to devour and reclaim that spent energy?).

3 months old, but I didn’t see this 3 months ago so…

It’s 5 races versus six dragons in the previous awakening – as it seems to be now, even. Few people know about the fifth and sixth Elder Dragon though (Order of Whispers seems to only know of five, while history denotes six, thus the Priory and Whispers know there were six, and the Inquest seem to believe six are still active).

@TheDood.8521 and BuddhaKeks.4857: There’s a few things to note which has brought my interest in that line:

1) Risen love psychological warfare, so they make lines that can’t be true or aren’t true a lot, just to weaken their enemies’ morale.
2) All priestesses during the meta events (and High Priestesses in Arah seer path) seem to hold different views for each god. Lyssa’s said to be dead, Grenth is denounced, and Dwayna is said to still be empowering her temple priestess – whether these are truths or not, it’s interesting to note how each god is treated differently.
3) The Priestess of Lyssa at the temple and the High Priestess of Lyssa in Arah say roughly the same thing.

Personally, I’m wanting to see if each temple priest and high priest’s lines about their respective gods match up. If they do, there may be some degree of truth in the priestesses of Lyssa’s words – that Lyssa may truly be dead. But I find it unlikely given the risen’s knack for lying.

I don’t hold the same theory as the OP. I don’t have a theory – just questions.

There seems to be some sort of natural balance or repeating history on Tyria:

Five races (Mursaat, Forgotten, Dwarves, Seers, and Jotun) survived the last awakening. Now five new ones (Human, Charr, Asuran, Sylvari, and Norn) battle the current awakening.

The six Elder Dragons are on some sort of reocurring sleep cycle.

It appears that there must always be six Human Gods. Kormir replaced Abbadon, and Abbadon replaced an unknown. Grenth has taken Dhuum’s place, although Dhuum has not been killed.

What all this balance means – I don’t know. However for the first time an Elder Dragon has been killed instead of “sated”. What does this do to the balance, if this balance exists? Do the Gods and Dragons share a connection since there are six of each? If there is a connection, how does killing Zhaitan effect the God associated with him? Will it cause the associated God to reappear?

Like many good stories, getting the answer to one quesion (Can an Elder Dragon be killed?) has spawned even more questions.

Uhm to be honest, there could have been EDs killed before, it was just done before the last cycle, meaning we have no records of it. Also there could be way more than six ED, as the Jotun path in Arah implies.

The Six human gods came to Tyria while the dragons were sleeping and they did not know of them. Except Abaddon who may found out about them. I don’t see any direct connection between EDs and gods, besides there number, but in fact as you said yourself, there are more than 6 gods too, it’s just the 6 that are worshipped by humans.

Besides that, the number of playable races in GW2 could easily increase, maybe even up to 8 (Tengu, Kodan, Largos). So this play on the numbers 5 and 6 makes sense now, but it could soon loose it’s meaning.

@Konig: That bit about psychological warfare is exactly what I said.

Sajuuk Khar.1509:

The six gods are silent, and not doing much direct action, for a VERY obvious reason.

Look at what happened last time the gods fought anything, aka Abbadon.
-The Crystal Sea was turned into a vast inhospitable wasteland
-An entire civilization of people, the Margonites, was effectively wiped out
-The place were Abbadon fell created an ever expanding “doom area” called the Desolation, that is even more inhospitable then the Crystal Desert

The gods don’t fight the ED because doing so would doom most of , if not the entire, planet into turning into a wasteland.

The gods aren’t the Dragons, or sharing Dragon energy, they just know that fighting the dragon themselves is dumb.

I don’t know too too much about the lore but I chuckled at this since apparently an elder dragon can be killed by firing a couple lasers at it. Imagine what a god can do?

That fight just ruined everything. I truly hope zhaitan isn’t dead.

Humans can and have killed a god too. Though he was also weakened like Zhaitan was and while the group lacked superior firepower, they had the blessing of the other gods (whatever that ment exactly).

Toxyn.9608:

Five races (Mursaat, Forgotten, Dwarves, Seers, and Jotun) survived the last awakening. Now five new ones (Human, Charr, Asuran, Sylvari, and Norn) battle the current awakening.

Huh. Didn’t know the quaggan, largos, skritt, hylek, grawl, and kodan don’t count as races.

Toxyn.9608:

The six Elder Dragons are on some sort of reocurring sleep cycle.

[…]

What all this balance means – I don’t know. However for the first time an Elder Dragon has been killed instead of “sated”. What does this do to the balance, if this balance exists? Do the Gods and Dragons share a connection since there are six of each? If there is a connection, how does killing Zhaitan effect the God associated with him? Will it cause the associated God to reappear?

Trahearne hints in his instance after Zhaitan’s death that there are many more Elder Dragons across the world, just now awakening. So there may be more than six. As Buddhakeks said, the Jotun Arah path also implies this.

There are only six to Jotun knowledge.

Furthermore, we can’t say no Elder Dragon ever died before – we can only say that there’s no mention of such in recorded history, which currently is limited to parts of jotun and dwarven history. The Forgotten, mursaat, seer, krait, tengu, and kodan (all being or are hinted at being ancient races) might know of some Elder Dragons killed before. Glint certainly knows killing an Elder Dragon is possible, so she may know of one killed in the past – too bad she died and we can’t ask her.

And the Elder Dragons’ awakening did not cause the gods to disappear, so why would an Elder Dragon’s death cause a god to reappear?

There’s also one or two more gods than the Six Gods: Koda and Mellaggan.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Humans can and have killed a god too. Though he was also weakened like Zhaitan was and while the group lacked superior firepower, they had the blessing of the other gods (whatever that ment exactly).

I like to imagine that the blessing preventing insta-killings by Abaddon, but gets stripped if you dance in front of him. But that’s just my humorous explanation for tying in an easter egg into canon lore.

Also, in the fight against Abaddon there were the etheric chains forged by Balthazar – and only by activating them could Abaddon be harmed.

There’s also the fight against Dhuum, aided by the seven Reapers, though we don’t kill him.

Na man, Abaddon just has some sick moves, I sure know when I get served. I think Abaddons unknown predecessor was John Travolta.