Guild Wars 2

the cancellation of the Utopia campaign made me feel uneasy, will we ever see it in a future expansion? does the location still exist?

There is still a good portion of the globe that we have no been able to visit. I would not be surprised.

I believe, off hand, that the Utopia campaign was to be set in the Isles of Janthir. These isles are on the in game map, in the north western corner.

Although a large amount of the art and such fits much of the Tarnished Coast area, perhaps a sign that the people of Utopia once existed on Tyria?

Narcemus.1348:

Although a large amount of the art and such fits much of the Tarnished Coast area, perhaps a sign that the people of Utopia once existed on Tyria?

By “tarnished coast area” you mean “Asura”

The “native” artchitecture was basiclly co-opted wholesale for the Asura
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Native_Architecture%22_concept_art.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Andes_Temple%22_concept_art_2.jpg

Interestingly this pic:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22The_Hub_of_Time%22_concept_art.jpg

Seems to have been a big inspiration for the black citadel

the Isles of Janthir are actually associated with the White Mantle, Utopia’s land would be west of Tyria

There is no land west of tyira, it goes off into a coast almost directly after the in-game map.

Utopia, if it went anywhere, would have most likely been south of Cantha IMO, in the human’s supposed homelands.

@Vejuz: Extremely unlikely. Not only are they too small (not a continent), they appear to be rather barren – which wouldn’t fit with the jungle/aztec theme of Utopia.

@Sajuuk: I’m pretty sure Yitsul means off the coast of Tyria to the west (the common speculation for where Utopia was to be located). I don’t see why you’d think that it must be physically connected to a previous explored continent (especially given that Cantha wasn’t to Tyria :P).

I’d agree that the lands to the west were to be Utopia’s placement – though truth be told, there’s nothing to support such a claim – and if we were to use the globe of Tyria we see, there’s a two-piece continent to the west of Tyria.

Alternatively, I’d argue for east of Tyria. Why? We were told that Nightfall would have hints to the next campaign (Utopia), and in Nightfall one can find Ascalonian ruins in the Desolation as well as undead charr (Awakening Defilers) as well as the Preserved Iris Flower, and Ascalonian ghosts (explorers and researchers with no real reason in the area) in the Desolation, all of which hinted to Ascalon and Gwen all together and thus would point to somewhere near Ascalon – best place to go would be east (other than, you know, north) – (though I’d actually argue that Bahltek and Prince Mehtu’s dialogue of a disappearing island were the real hints, but these three things are not unlikely).

I despise that map for so many reasons, mostly becuase of how many things are wrong with it.

I hope arenanet is reading this, I want to see the red man in this game eventually

“mostly because of how many things are wrong with it” – however, the only thing that’s wrong with it, is Frostgorge Sound and Janthir Bay/Isles of Janthir, really. The land directly north of the central continental Tyria.

That’s not a lot wrong. As far as we know, the minor alterations of Cantha and Elona are intended to be post-tidal wave and kitten Elon effects. And it’s the best example we have for what the world looks like (and given the Order of Whispers have spread themselves throughout, and still have access between Tyria and the outside world, it’s most likely ~80-90% accurate – and I’d say ~95-99% accurate on the general scale (that is, ignoring lack of the more finer details not seen outside continental Tyria)).

Honestly I would consider this map to be around as accurate as maps from the late renaissance perhaps closer to the American revolutionary era (considering certain races’ advanced technology). But honestly if you view such maps you will see Europe is extremely well defined, but the further out you get from Europe the more inaccuracies appear. I would view this Tyrian map to be similar, I mean Tyrians can only create maps from a ground perspective, we have no evidence of them having the ability to create satellites like we have today to give us the world as it truly is.

I would like to point out that on this map, from what I can tell, there is no Isle of Janthir and also the Battle Isles are still above ground. Now on the Battle Isles it could just be assumed that they still exist by Tyrians because of the fact that no one can get there. But still this point towards the inaccuracy of the maps as well.

I’ve already denoted in my previous post about the lake of the Isles of Janthir or Janthir Bay – as well as the inland sea made by Jormag (there’s also not much water for the arctic sea to be). It’s likely that northern Tyria is unexplored by the Order of Whispers and thus poorly detailed.

As for the Battle Isles – keep in mind that the land of the isles didn’t lower, but they were merely affected by the tidal wave. It’s likely that they resurfaced afterwards and, in fact, I’d be surprised if this wasn’t the case. Also take note that Cantha’s been changed, and there’s implication that the Whispers has contact with Canthans.

Yet why should the Battle Isles re-emerge when areas such as Lion’s Arch never did? I am not saying it couldn’t, but a very large amount of land did stay underwater because of the rising of Orr.

I suspect that due to the Battle Isles being so far from any continent, the flooding might have been more temporary. The lack of a major continental shelf could mean that the sea level may have risen for a short time, long enough to force an evacuation, but short enough that they didn’t stay submerged permanently. Lion’s Arch was part of mainland Tyria. Some of the flood waters did recede, but not entirely.

There’s also the fact that the ruins of Lion’s Arch seem to have sunk – that is, they possibly were pushed towards the sea at some point (weaker foundations? draw back from tsunami?). Keep in mind that in GW1, Lion’s Arch wasn’t surrounded by cliffs.

No, but the city itself was quite a bit lower than the land outside. I remember specifically walking up out of the city and off north many times to farm War in Kryta bounties for Oppressor’s Weapons. It seems that a good part of these cliffs can be explained as merely sediment being washed into the area over 250 years, and also perhaps backwash from when the tsunami waters receeded. They more than likely washed away sediment from the nearby hills and settled it down around the foundations of the Lion’s Arch Keep, and eventually covering most of it.

But still, given how low the ruins of LA are, if they were the same level as in GW1 then most of Gendarran Fields should be flodded – far more than the appearance of Lake Gendarr (aka the little Giant’s Basin) does.

True, and it most likely has a similar situation as the Temple of Ages, which stood over a swamp for centuries and is suddenly now underneith.

Am I the only person that thinks Doern Vasquez is from the place where Utopia would’ve been?

What’s your reasoning for that?

Obviously, Doern was a conquistador in the Aztec lands of Utopia.

Well, the name doesn’t seem to be from a place we know of, and he avoids telling you where he comes from, I just assumed.

Maybe that’s because he’s an order of whispers agent and he’s extremely secretive, lol. But you didn’t hear it from me!!!

skims through thread

sees that broken mess of inconsistency that’s usually referred as a map

D:

my biggest issue with that map has always been the tarnished coast area, but that’s just one of many.

But… the tarnished coast is actually seemingly perfectly accurate to the world map?

the “tarnish” goes at least twice as much as it should go. try comparing side by side. on that map, lion’s arch and pretty much every playable map above it should still be flooded. the flood goes as far as divinity’s reach (you can use the two big lakes as directions). there’s also a huge chunk of land that shouldn’t be there either. divinity’s reach is at the edge of the northwestern coast, but according to that map, there’s still a whole lot of land beyond that (and as such, no isles of janthir).

I wish we had access to the Tarnished Coast.

oh, keep in mind that what i call the tarnished coast is the whole sea of sorrows area, because, well, the whole area seems pretty tarnished to me, and it’s coastal :P

The Tarnished Coast is the southern shore of the Maguuma Jungle. The Sea of Sorrow’s is not the Tarnished Coast, at all – a part of the Tarnished Coast (which is land) does touch the western Sea of Sorrows (which is water), but what you’re referring to is the southern Krytan coast.

Though now I see what you mean for Lion’s Arch being flooded – though it’s not as horrible as you claim. It’s merely from the lesser Giant’s Basin to the Sea of Sorrows being connected (from Lion’s Arch’s bays to Lake Gendarr and the body of water in Harathi Hinterlands – which why the hell is there a mountain in the middle of the former Giant’s Basin!?)

There’s no issue that I see with Divinity’s Reach, except a missing river north of it connecting the two lakes formerly the greater Giant’s Basin. Of course, due to the size (covering large areas while also very small details), it’s bound to have some fine-print inaccuracies (e.g., the lack or misplacements of the smaller lakes and islands).

Narcemus.1348:

Maybe that’s because he’s an order of whispers agent and he’s extremely secretive, lol. But you didn’t hear it from me!!!

And that means he won’t say which continent he comes from to another Whispers agent? Doesn’t that sound stupid to you? And I now realise it’s Velasquez not Vasquez. :P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Tarnished Coast is the southern shore of the Maguuma Jungle. The Sea of Sorrow’s is not the Tarnished Coast, at all – a part of the Tarnished Coast (which is land) does touch the western Sea of Sorrows (which is water), but what you’re referring to is the southern Krytan coast.

Though now I see what you mean for Lion’s Arch being flooded – though it’s not as horrible as you claim. It’s merely from the lesser Giant’s Basin to the Sea of Sorrows being connected (from Lion’s Arch’s bays to Lake Gendarr and the body of water in Harathi Hinterlands – which why the hell is there a mountain in the middle of the former Giant’s Basin!?)

There’s no issue that I see with Divinity’s Reach, except a missing river north of it connecting the two lakes formerly the greater Giant’s Basin. Of course, due to the size (covering large areas while also very small details), it’s bound to have some fine-print inaccuracies (e.g., the lack or misplacements of the smaller lakes and islands).

i’ll stand corrected on the naming (though i stand by the point that the whole bay area of the sea of sorrows is very tarnished :P), but i still think it’s the most glaring flaw with that map.

i didn’t mean that it flooded divinity’s reach, i meant as high as DR, if you lay cartesian coordinates on that map. and from my understanding, even during the flood, the waters never went that far. and even if they did, what kind of cartographer draws a map based on a natural disaster? that would be like mapping japan during the earthquake last year and saying insert name of the city because the forum is censoring it is underwater.

AlexMc.2083:

Narcemus.1348:

Maybe that’s because he’s an order of whispers agent and he’s extremely secretive, lol. But you didn’t hear it from me!!!

And that means he won’t say which continent he comes from to another Whispers agent? Doesn’t that sound stupid to you? And I now realise it’s Velasquez not Vasquez. :P

Nope, Order of Whispers is very secretive :P Plus did you ever ask him where he came from?

Actually yes, you can – at the end of the level 38, I believe, story step – once the issue with Demmi is settled and you’re chosing your racial sympathy. In the instance you chose your racial sympathy, you can ask Doern if he’s from Kryta where he goes “No, no – wait, yes! Kryta, the human nation, right?” Where you then get the dialogue option “You don’t look Elonian, Canthan perhaps?” And he responds with a “that’s classified information” or something. I don’t recall the exact wording, but he makes it pretty obvious he’s not from continental Tyria.

Ah, well that is interesting, sadly I haven’t played order of whispers yet. Though in general you can’t just ask people where you are from. It would be interesting to see if perhaps someday we can visit the rest of the known Tyrian world.

I think Utopia would fit well west and northwest of Maguuma.

PS: Hate that map too.

Except that west of the Maguuma is, quite literally, coast line. There’s not much left off of the map for that direction.

^ make them islands. i wouldn’t mind a tropical archipelago-like scenario.

It would make more sense for Utopia to be part of the continent to the west of Tyria, or perhaps the land to the east of Elona. Honestly we’ll not know until we go there, if we go there. But honestly it makes little sense for it to be north or south too much further as you would be growing closer to the northern and southern poles.

The areas that spark my curiosity are attached.

The areas right of Ascalon spark my curiosity because Humans expanded westward upon arrival to Tyria; so perhaps there are more human kingdoms. I’m sad though, Ascalon has always been my favorite kingdom in any game (wish Kryta and Ascalon could trade places). As for the awkwardly drawn islands to the far left, they just look enticing.

South and west of Ascalon on that map is crystal desert (right most red circled area) then desolation (connected to Orr via scavenger’s causeway) and then Elona (not shown) The map seems not fully expanded upon yet.

The other circled area is all new yet could be a wrap around from an undiscovered portion of Elona from GW 1. Like what is beyond the map where Prince Mokka’s theater is located, which we can’t reach in gw1 yet see on our map.

You guys are way off, here, I took the liberty of highlighting the map for you guys so you could accurately see the features as laid out. Istan is clearly just off the coast of Elonia, the risen Orr is apparent and the only real problem with modern Kryta is the squished-in feel of the Sea of Sorrows.

Arc.5862:

You guys are way off, here, I took the liberty of highlighting the map for you guys so you could accurately see the features as laid out. Istan is clearly just off the coast of Elonia, the risen Orr is apparent and the only real problem with modern Kryta is the squished-in feel of the Sea of Sorrows.

Elona* (sorry just had to be an kitten /p>

Ryuujin.8236:

Narcemus.1348:

Although a large amount of the art and such fits much of the Tarnished Coast area, perhaps a sign that the people of Utopia once existed on Tyria?

By “tarnished coast area” you mean “Asura”

The “native” artchitecture was basiclly co-opted wholesale for the Asura
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Native_Architecture%22_concept_art.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Andes_Temple%22_concept_art_2.jpg

Interestingly this pic:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22The_Hub_of_Time%22_concept_art.jpg

Seems to have been a big inspiration for the black citadel

Ditto.

Although I would add some of the Utopia ideas were also used for the Sylvari, especially the way they look and act.

First off all to get a bit on topic. Utopia is a cancelled expansion. It was cancelled in favor of EotN and GW2. many good ideas have been re-used but when it comes to discussing lore, lore isn’t lore yet untill it is published. So in my opinion Utopia is what the names implies, it doesnt exist.

There is also never said that it would have been a continent (thats just assumption cause every campaign released those days was a continent, though in the case of elona one could argue that, and Cantha is rather small compared to the elona-tyria-and much more-continent). The only guess is that artwork that was allready development was replaced to the tarnished coast. But it might have always been planned to be there.

Will we ever visit the lands of Utopia?? no, or atleast not as we know it. If we visit it, it will be nothing alike how it was planned, the reason is that the good things they made is re-used and the rest is rubish. So basicly, Utopia is a continent of failures and wrong idea’s I have no intention to go there to be honest

Not to mention, I’d really hope that they would go to Cantha or Elona first before that place, and even those two seem to be years out (although with some storyline twists Elona could appear on the scene earlier if they wanted.)