The most powerful beings?
I don’t think it’s that there has to be 6 gods, it’s more that the energy released when a god is killed has to GO somewhere. If Kormir had not absorbed Abaddon’s power then I think the implication is that it would have started tearing apart things…
If you look at the dialogue from the final GW1 Nightfall mission it sheds a tiny bit of light on the possibility of this.
The dragons on the other hand are absorbing power already in Tyria/are from Tyria or something like that, so it’s possible that their energy is just able to return to the land.
But yes I’m inclined to think the gods are the most powerful beings we are aware of.
I wouldn’t call them lazy though, Tyria was not their home, it is not their world, what obligation do they have to the races of Tyria to protect them? Absolutely none. We also don’t know their exact reasons for leaving. Perhaps they sensed the threat of the elder dragons, perhaps they were able to return to where they came from. Or went off travelling the Mists.
I think the implication is that when they first arrived in Tyria it was a little worse for wear, so it’s possible they just fixed things up a little, stayed for a while to make sure everything was on the right track and then decided that their work was done?
Just going to respond here as I read…
The Dream may possibly be older than the sylvari and the Tree. We don’t know enough to say for sure how old it is, though that’s a moot point here as it isn’t an entity/being.
We also don’t necessarily know that there are only Six gods. There might be more back wherever they came from.
While the gods may have arrived from the Mists, there rather scant evidence points to their apparent origin as another “tangible world”.
It’s not the position, but the power. While the gods themselves can be slain, their power is uniquely indestructible/undispersible.
That’s… arguable. It would be far more accurate to say that the other races were able to destroy an Elder Dragon with the aid of humans, and even that is assuming a fully even contribution spread. The sad fact is that Zhaitan was slain with asuran technology held aloft by a combination of asuran, charr, and human technology, and dragonfly wings.
The gods also didn’t aid in the destruction of Abaddon. That was an entirely human undertaking, with the exception of one centaur.
The GL, while powerful, does not seem to have near the power of the Dragons or gods. Both have been known to utterly alter the landscape of entire regions at a time; the GL in Arah just didn’t demonstrate anything near that potential.
As to rather the gods or the dragons are more powerful… I just don’t think we have enough to say. The memory of the actual exploits of the gods has been reduced to a handful of tales, and even those have proven to be mostly false. The only real means of comparison we have is the mark they’ve left on the geography, the changing of the Crystal Sea into the Crystal Desert and Desolation against the Rise of Orr and the shattering of the Shiverpeaks. By that measure, I’d say the dragons seem stronger… but even that isn’t necessarily accurate, because the dragons were rising from their tombs, which uniquely positioned them to change the landscape.
TL;DR: I’d say it’s a tie between the Gods and Dragons due to lack of evidence.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Remember that all beings and everything else comes from the mists in one way or another as a-net has described the mists as the “building blocks of reality”.
We know that Abbadon really did die, we know the Owl Spirit died and we know that an ED died. But we don’t know much beyond that as to the nature of the most powerful beings. There may be one type that rules over the rest or there may be a rock, paper, scissors scenario. Or it may not be easily measurable in an instance that mimic comparing apples and oranges. If it is an apples and oranges scenario, then any definition of “power” would be completely arbitrary. So the answer would be predetermined by the chosen definition.
My personal guess would’ve been that the EDs are stronger as we see with Primordius that he can create living humanoid like being on a regular basis making tons of them. I can’t find any situations in which the human gods created anything like that they changed living type of things into other living things but never created life from something without life (ex. tormented souls->titans, humans->margonites, kormir->goddess, and Ewan’s tribe->stewards of nature), though it has been suggested that when the human gods arrived on Tyria they did a bit of terraforming, which in that case they may have given life to plants and such.
On the position that there must always be six human gods it is possible that the same is true of the elder dragons, as we see from Tequatl’s evolution “Warmaster Narru who was dispatched by General Almorra Soulkeeper to investigate the reports theorizes that it may be a response to the Pact offensive in Orr; though whether this is the case remains to be seen.” makes it sound like (to me at least) that the pact may have killed Zhaitan at the point when Tequatl starts gaining strength to take up the mantle of the elder dragon of death?
Infamous Culverin(engi[Main]), one of every other class.
Karl Marx: “Go away! Last words are for fools who haven’t said enough!”
Karl Marx: “Go away! Last words are for fools who haven’t said enough!”
Infamous that is an interesting idea about the Elder Dragon potentially being replaced. Along those lines, we could also consider the possibility that Scarlet may be someone who is rising to become the replacement Elder Dragon. The problem with this logic is that at some point Guildwars 2’s story will end (hopefully being replaced by Guildwars 3 someday…?) so if we keep going through dragons, only for them to be replaced, we won’t ever be able to destroy them all. The only way this could work is if we realize the dragons can be forced to rest or we can change how they act.
TLDR: Most powerful being in GW2 is not known and resides somewhere in the mists its power level would certainly be equal or greater than any known entity. Example: A creature born off an Elder Dragon template, a Mists Demon Dragon.
My theory is we have not encountered the most powerful beings in the GW universe. If you were to look for the most powerful being you would probably find it somewhere deep in the mists. It is well established that within the mists things are generated based on templates and/or randomness. Most of the most powerful armies/creatures were created somewhere or have origins linked to the Mists. The Mists have few inhabitants.
Establishing premiss of theory: In the Mists there are 5 types of inhabitants
1) regular wild life probably created based on templates from worlds. (black widow spider found in underworld)
2) souls of the dead mainly found in gods realms and Hall of Heroes areas.
3) Monstrous beasts such as siege wurms, behemoths, fire drakes giant spiders, wind rider species. Some monstrous beasts are demons such as Aatxes and Smite Crawlers
4) Demons these come in many forms often based on templates from Tyria or other worlds. Demons come in many forms and shapes but there is one thing that separates them from the monstrous beasts is intelligence, increased magical ability in comparison to templates and strength. Example Torment Demons encountered in Nightfall looked like Great Beasts found in Elona and were just as intelligent as humans.
5) gods and godly entities not known.
Additional proof that the most powerful beings in GW1 are Demons born from the mists. All end game armies that were a threat were demonic in nature: Titans forged by the Fury and Torture Web Dryders (Demons). Realm of the Gods most dangerous enemies were considered Demons in the game. Abyssal, Dryders, Torment Demons.
More Evidance Not going into detail about characters look them up: Unique Named Demons in GW1 were very powerful for Example Kanaxi from the Deep, Dread Spawn Maw. The Darkness, and The Fury.
Concluding Points
Therefore the potentially most powerful being in the GW universe is a demonic beast or demon somewhere in the Mists not found. I would suspect somewhere akin to Ravenheart Gloom. Ravenheart Gloom is a place shrouded in darkness in the Realm of Torment and is theorized by the Order of Whispers and Forgotten keepers to be endless and connect to some other places unknown. This creature could be anything but to put it in terms we can understand. This entity could be born off an Elder Dragon template be a demon and be essentially a stronger bigger Elder Dragon.
I don’t think that demons are or can be based off of templates- the torment demons in a couple cases (the mesmer is the only one I can think of) had a vaguely similar pose and number of limbs as some of the great beasts, but in no way seem to be based off of them. Other than that I think you make some pretty good points.
The counterargument would be that all of those powerful demons you listed (save Kanaxi) are the subservient minions of either Abaddon, Dhuum, or Menzies, all of whom fall under the human gods umbrella.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
I would guess either Dhuum or Primordus.
Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs
I would guess either Dhuum or Primordus.
Based off of what O_o.
The PC in GW1 was able to subdue Dhumm and this is after Grenth had defeated/usurped him – so he clearly isn’t all that unbeatable, and there’s nothing to indicate that Primordius is any stronger or weaker than the other Elder Dragons…
Defending my my theory:
I did not want to originally over expand on my theory because nobody likes to read text walls. but since you argue against it I will counter.
I agree that not all demons share a connection with known tyrian creatures but there are enough for me make my argument.
“Creatures born from the Mists themselves. They often resemble twisted forms of other races.” GW1 wiki not the best source but community consensus is most resemble something from Elona. You named one the mesmer, necro and paragon demon can be closely matched to an Elonian species.
Mesmer=Ntouko Bird
Necro=Cobalt Mokele
Paragon=Centaur
Our interactions with demons are quite limited. to areas known as the gods realms. These demons are subservient to gods because gods are powerful and they likely have something to gain. Just like how humans would gladly serve the gods when called upon like our GW1 characters. It to me seems that powerful demons such as Kanaxi are a rarity and not the norm. As I said we do not meetings with said many rare strong demons.
Until we have more information that is where the theory has to end I agree with the rest of what you say. Many things point to the gods not being all powerful and the possibility of there being Domains that we do not know of containing said powerful beings
“Outside the world we know, other dimensions exist, realms beyond what we can see and experience. Civilized humans know that when they die, their souls pass on into the Mists, the realm of the afterlife. Some spirits linger in this world, or find ways to walk back into the realm of flesh…yet there are other creatures who watch them and wait, drawn to the energy of countless souls.
Sometimes souls are not enough. In dimensions alien to the physical world, sentient entities scheme of ways to enter the realm of flesh, dreaming of the havoc they can wreak. Just as ghosts can defy death by returning to the land of the living, demons find ways into our world, where they feast on suffering, despair, and the vital energy of intelligent creatures.
Demons are more than creatures of the Mists—they are made from the Mists themselves, bits of etheric matter that have gained malignant sentience and power. Whether they appear as monstrous humanoids, bestial abominations, or radically inhuman horrors, they share many of the same aspirations: the strong consume or dominate the weak, reveling in their feasts and victimization. As they are not native to the real world, demons hold an abiding hatred of its denizens. They are also ruthlessly intelligent, more than willing to enter into arrangements that allow them to routinely prey on humans and other foolish living creatures.” – Official Nightfall manuscript…
Note particularly the first bit in bold, it’s referring to them being MADE from the Mists, rather than just in the Mists. So I’m pretty sure they’re not necessarily based off things from other dimensions.
Vlad, comparing the visual shape of GW1 creatures with the shapes of demons isn’t really valid – a lot of creatures in the game have similar shapes because they use the same 3D model and skeleton in order to conserve resources. Also just because something looks vaguely similar does not mean it is related.
Regarding the second bit in bold – saying that demons are subservient to gods is a generalization. Yes we have demons that served under Abaddon, but other than that we can’t really say much. Especially since, as you pointed out, Kanaxai does not seem to be linked to a god, and then we have the Oni who may or may not be his followers. It seems as though demons are willing to do anything that allows them to consume souls, it’s not really being subservient when you’re acting only in your own interests. I would imagine they would just as easy betray or abandon any powerful being if it could no longer guarantee them souls to eat.
(edited by FlamingFoxx.1305)
So are demons pretty much like dementors from Harry Potter?
I suppose that’s not a bad comparison to make. Although I’m only going off what I know from the movies having still not read the books… xD
You could certainly look at it that way. The parallel isn’t perfect, but it comes surprisingly close.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
They have the ability to either suck out the happiness from people or, in the most severe cases, suck out and consume the soul of the victim (destroying all hope for an afterlife I believe).
Definitely Oink.
From the history of entire fantasy and sci-fi universes – Humans are most dangerous and terrifying creatures can ever exist.
80’s: Sylvari Necromancer (Main). Human: Thief, Warrior (PvP Main), Engineer. Charr Guardian