Guild Wars 2

I’ll just start out and say that the writing in Guild Wars 2 isn’t perfect. What the first game and the novels built were ultimately misguided in this title. However, it’s not as terrible as some people believe it to be, but it honestly requires some fixing.

So today I come here to the forums in order to hear everyone’s opinions on what is the best and worst story contents in the game. I’m going to provide my own breakdown on the matter and I would appreciate if you could take your time to read it with an open mind. I’ll divide this thread into several subjects to properly organise them.

Due to the Forum’s limitations, I’ll have to update this regularly for the next few hours. I’d apreciatte if you guys could stop posting until the thread is properly finished. I’ll add a warning once it is fully completed.

There will be Spoilers, obviously.

Story issues:
- Racial
- Base Game/Personal Story
- Season 1
- Season 2
- Heart of Thorns
- Season 3

Other issues:
- Cutscenes
- Voice Acting

Racial:

Racial Storyline, or Act I, had a lot of potential. It could’ve shown us how the races behaved in the world of Tyria and show us their differences. Instead, we got some rather poor and very simplistic storylines that are completely ignored in the later run.

From Level 10 to Level 30 we find our characters voyaging into adventures that hold barely any meaning and that are wrapped up quite quickly. They don’t manage to explain the world around them properly and are easily forgettable. We also spend so many hours developing relationships with several factions and characters only to never seem or hear from them again accordingly.

Personal Storyline:

Being someone who’s has over twenty characters in-game, I’ve done all possible outcomes that the game could offer.

The Orders don’t start off that bad. They attempt to show us how each Order works and put a big emphasis on the mentor figures. Sadly it starts to become a bit too obvious as to what’s stored for the Mentor figures.

It seems like the sacrifice was most likely intended for Warmaster Forgal Kernsson but somehow it was decided that all of the three characters should die in what it’s probably one of the worst moments in the whole game. T
- Tybalt sacrifice comes out as a poor excuse of an attempt to make us players feel something for once. Why would Tybalt die? He had just discovered his purpose; that he matters and that all of those years feeling like a third-wheel were no longer important because he now knew he was more than capable of assisting the Order and others. Why would someone throw everything they’ve fought hard for just like that?
- Why would a sylvari wish to see the Mists if it was already possible to do around that time through the portals located in Lion’s Arch? It’s not even what happens to them upon death. She was still a young, curious explorer who had a lot left to learn… and then she just dies.

Then we meet Trahearne. It was obvious from the start that the Story was meant for a Sylvari. The Sylvari are the new race that eventually reveal a huge role in the world of Tyria due to the dragon’s awakening.

Right after our sylvari character awakens we are tasked with a burden that only one other character shares. We are meant to defeat the dragons. We meet Trahearne very early on and we get to see some development in that character; his motives, hopes and past. If you play as the other races, Trahearne is instantly thrown at our faces with no explanation. He starts bickering as a walking wikipedia, spitting out exposition and acting as our best friend for no apparent reason.

Suddenly, Trahearne takes the player away from the spotlight and is rewarded for most of the player’s accomplishments. Even though it is his goal to cleanse Orr, it feels off-putting. Unless you’re a Sylvari and take a deeper look into things you’ll come to understand that Trahearne needs this share of spotlight, and that he soon hands it over when finished.

Now, Orr. Orr is my least favorite moment of the entire game. After completing it by myself several times and even with friends, I can’t help but to feel that it was incredibly rushed. The game tries to take itself too seriously only place some cliché and unfunny jokes that completely destroy the mood of the moment.

We don’t really feel what’s in stake. Something essential is lacking; even the voice-acting shows a huge decline in quality during these last story instances. The silly attempt to make us think that Logan died was completely pointless. The battle against Zhaitan is one of the most underwhelming battles that a game has ever offered to me. Everything feels so rushed. And after some research I’ve discovered that this was indeed the case due to time constraints.

[Continuation.]

Season 1:

Living World Season 1 is the longest season that ArenaNet has delivered so far. Sadly I was unable to properly experience it. I had had to use the Fractals, Wiki and YouTube as means to witness it. I’ve also spoken to some people and did a fair bit of research and read some articles that ANet wrote down in their website time to time.

I’m not going to condemn this season. The biggest flaw was the fact that they actually thought that creating “live content” for a MMORPG was a good idea to begin with.

ArenaNet took a lot of risks. They wanted to push their limits and try to deliver their best in short periods of time. Season 1 is still the best when it comes to battles, events and even characters.

Sadly they didn’t manage to properly introduce the new villain. Scarlet had potential, and it was better developed in the following season. She caused a lot of damage but it was poorly explained. It didn’t help much that she nearly became a Mary Sue stereaotype perfect at almost everything with an endless amount of resources.

he destruction of Lion’s Arch was a really bold move nonetheless. Too bad it’s now locked away from players… probably forever.

Season 2:

The second Season is probably my favourite one.

The story is more coherent and surprising. It didn’t explode as the first one, but at least there was placed a bigger focus when it came to growth of the bigger picture. ArenaNet knew what they wanted and where things were heading to.

Trying to help each of the races in some of their issues and exploring Caithe’s past memories were entertaining. Even though the huge plot-twist was foreseen by many, it was still well-delivered. They managed to turn two grinding maps into exploreable and reasonable ones, if only for a while. If it wasn’t for S2 I wouldn’t have even bothered with the Silverwastes.

Yes, I realise that the pacing in this Season is probably the slowest one of all episodes so far, but I believe that it’s worthwhile. Taking things a bit slower while focusing on the character’s relationships and dispositions while still supplying important plot details and fresh alternatives to gameplay is what made me realize that this is probably the best out everything ArenaNet has given to us players so far. The small Easter Eggs, the overall feeling and the nice little touches in detail were substantial.

Heart of Thorns:

Oh boy. I’m not going to beat the horse any further, so I’ll be quick with this one. Heart of Thorns was a disappointment.

The original idea for this expansion was promising but it got scrapped. The expansion itself caused a lot of controversy even before it was released. Most of the promises weren’t delivered and the writing was dreadful.

A key plothole surfaced thanks to this expansion: the Revenant class. There’s barely to little no explanation as to where they came from and how they managed to spread out the way they did. The lack of a special cinematic or clarification when a new character is created ends up breaking immersion and purpose. The roleplaying community itself refuses to even accept their existence.

Everything felt rushed from start to end. Characters died and it felt anticlimactic and unnecessary. It didn’t help that both the performance and the whole scheme of the maps were bad. Many players felt lost, overwhelmed and underpowered in the new maps. The story was, again, rushed. Obviously ArenaNet tried to deliver it as soon as possible to live it up to the hype that Season 2 had started. It’s really a shame. HoT was another piece of content with a lot of potential that was eventually torn apart.

[Continuation.]

Season 3:

I don’t really have much of strong opinion for Season 3. I’m not enjoying it as much. It can’t be easy to build up to a new expansion while trying to make it up for the failures of the previous one. The trailers are done in a way to generate excitement. Despondently, each map ends up falling into the same kind of concept and idea.

It feels like it was just another attempt to bring out something new without thinking things through. Players were excited to see old Guild Wars 1 plot details returning, but what was the point of all of this if they ended up being overcooked? I’ll honestly never forgive the Deus Ex Machinima move that performed during the end of Episode 5. That was just a clear sign of lazy writing.

Also, can’t forget that all story contents weren’t well implemented and, like everything else in the game, never properly iterated. Basically, there are several separate storylines on several separate timelines occurring in the same universe, and the resulting in mess, especially when it comes to visuals. Wandering around the new Lion’s Arch while you’ll technically in the old adds to some confusion when new players are experiencing the game. Can’t also forget that the current timeline is 1328 but most of the world still acts and behaves as if it’s 1325.

Cutscenes:

Another issue that I have with the story is that ArenaNet can’t seem to make up their mind when it comes to the cutscenes. So far we’ve had a lot of types.

1. Original Cutscenes. It was back when characters were located in front of a painted background that would represent the current environment. Characters apply basic emotion, but it still accomplishes to deliver how they would act and feel regarding to what’s happening. If it wasn’t done so poorly when it comes to direction it might’ve worked out perfectly.
2. Text. This was a thing for the majority of Season 1 and Season 2. Our characters would move on with the plot through text without ever speaking.
3. In-game cutscenes. There was a share of these in the base game, but it was mostly a thing during the first two seasons. These cutscenes were created by developers who used custom animations and facial expressions for those specific scenes. They relied on the current graphical setup of the player and it’s honestly my favorite type of cutscene. Sadly, ArenaNet wasn’t capable of properly placing our characters into this setting.
4. In-game dialogue. This is now the norm. Our characters will speak as we play. It’s probably the cheapest way that ArenaNet has found in their way into moving with the plot. Characters won’t do any complex animations and a basic lip-sync method was placed. Players are free to move around as they wish while characters interact with one another.
5. Pre-rendered cutscenes. This start happening during Heart of Thorns. They are cutscenes that were previously rendered by ArenaNet and are shown in a smaller resolution. Even though they are indeed a good process, sadly we will never be able to ever see our characters.

The Voice Acting:

Guild Wars 2 has a list of insanely good actors. I’ve seen most of the cast in a variety of games and I’m familiar with their work. But it appears that some actors received a rather poor direction when it came to recording a few scenes.

I’m aware that the gaming voice acting company is going through a strike due to some issues with publishers and even developers, but this wasn’t an issue a few years ago. You can easily find numerous threads complaining about some of the actors.

Another major issue is the lack of racial diversity. It seems like later in the game out character will apparently share the same kind of mentality regardless of their species, gender and class.

I know that some instances do have some changes, such as Eir’s speech, but that’s just a small example. Again, in the end of Episode 5 of this current season, humans and charr react exactly the same way to a deity that one is rather more familiar than the other. I understand that our characters have developed in the course of nearly four years’ story-wise, but this is just unreasonable.

Others:

Some may not agree with me while others will. This is all that I can think up at the moment. I would be able to deliver a better analysis if I was willing to replay the whole game. Unfortunately, I do not have the spare time to do so. If you have anything else to add, please do not hesitate to do as I look forward to hear from you.

The problem with the writing is simple.

They are doing too much and yet not enough at the same time.

They are trying to make as much use of the limited time they have to produce awesome cinematics. However, that comes at a cost to the size of the cinematics, which also means a cost to the exposition and thus world/character building.

It’s something i hope they grow and learn from personally. Maybe one day we’ll have a good 10 minute cinematic that has a decent exposition or action sequence that explains on-goings rather than just dropping bombshells because both types are needed. If it becomes a “burden” due to technology perhaps do what’s been done with raids and use that technology to allow people who want to bypass the cinematic to do so or learn from a competitor and allow people to watch all cut-scenes they’ve unlocked via a journal.

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

I prefer Season 1 to all others. I liked Season Two the least. Season 3 is okay. Looking forward to Season 4.

zealex.9410:

Cutscenes better than ever so far.
Va improved from before but nothing mindblowing, deff an up in quality.

Racial: the story can use alot more emphasis on racial aspecs but that might take from the overall quallity so idk.

Season 2 was good imho (it captured the idea of the events effecting the entire tyria the best )
Season 3 is supperior in terms of quality because cutsenes better vo (pc voice acting)
it can use alot less deus ex taimi imho tho. The episodic nature ad how each episode is its own thing makes it feel abit disconected and like the story isnt going anywhere specific atm so im w8ing on ep 6 to see. Each epsode on its own is good tho. It also feels rather disconected from the actual world.

Characters: Marjory is acting how i would expect her to act given the current events that have taken place .
Same with braham even tho alot of ppl will disagree and say a norm doesnt act like that there the arguement that braham isnt a normal norm and he didnt experience a normal life or events so far so acting differently makes perfect sense (although i hope he can grow from this stage and show us how true norms act).
Taimi can go drink bleach (kidding but man the ex machina and her writing some times drive me mad)
Cannach is a legend.
The first rev charr (forgot his name) is mia so yeah…
Hot in comparison to ps is a huge up. The story has a tone on it you feel like you are in a hurry to do what you gotta do but plotholes and some thing that were missing on the final product bring it a bit lower for me. Still leagues better than ps and far more memorable moments in the hot storyline (including the final fight). There are tho alot of things that should ahve been in ther and their absence hurts the overall story. Things like the revenant and ofc the elite specs which there no explanation as to how any of these came to be.

Could you please erase your post and write it again? It’s getting in the way of ther other ones and they were needed to be in order.

Sartharina.3542:

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

and suddenly dropping a deus ex machina on you had what value ?

When we are talking about writing the value is in the build up. Something the story has greatly been lacking.

TexZero.7910:

Sartharina.3542:

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

and suddenly dropping a deus ex machina on you had what value ?

When we are talking about writing the value is in the build up. Something the story has greatly been lacking.

They could learn a few things from SWTOR.

RandomWolf.3986:

zealex.9410:

Cutscenes better than ever so far.
Va improved from before but nothing mindblowing, deff an up in quality.

Racial: the story can use alot more emphasis on racial aspecs but that might take from the overall quallity so idk.

Season 2 was good imho (it captured the idea of the events effecting the entire tyria the best )
Season 3 is supperior in terms of quality because cutsenes better vo (pc voice acting)
it can use alot less deus ex taimi imho tho. The episodic nature ad how each episode is its own thing makes it feel abit disconected and like the story isnt going anywhere specific atm so im w8ing on ep 6 to see. Each epsode on its own is good tho. It also feels rather disconected from the actual world.

Characters: Marjory is acting how i would expect her to act given the current events that have taken place .
Same with braham even tho alot of ppl will disagree and say a norm doesnt act like that there the arguement that braham isnt a normal norm and he didnt experience a normal life or events so far so acting differently makes perfect sense (although i hope he can grow from this stage and show us how true norms act).
Taimi can go drink bleach (kidding but man the ex machina and her writing some times drive me mad)
Cannach is a legend.
The first rev charr (forgot his name) is mia so yeah…
Hot in comparison to ps is a huge up. The story has a tone on it you feel like you are in a hurry to do what you gotta do but plotholes and some thing that were missing on the final product bring it a bit lower for me. Still leagues better than ps and far more memorable moments in the hot storyline (including the final fight). There are tho alot of things that should ahve been in ther and their absence hurts the overall story. Things like the revenant and ofc the elite specs which there no explanation as to how any of these came to be.

Could you please erase your post and write it again? It’s getting in the way of ther other ones and they were needed to be in order.

a small suggestion make "placeholder posts on future thread you make so you can secure the spots you want.

TexZero.7910:

Sartharina.3542:

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

and suddenly dropping a deus ex machina on you had what value ?

When we are talking about writing the value is in the build up. Something the story has greatly been lacking.

it doesnt also need to be of 10 minutes it just needs a proper build up. Imo it doesnt matter that balthazar didnt make amazing sense from the getgo so long as they make it work in the furture.

Cutscenes better than ever so far.
Va improved from before but nothing mindblowing, deff an up in quality.

Racial: the story can use alot more emphasis on racial aspecs but that might take from the overall quallity so idk.

Season 2 was good imho (it captured the idea of the events effecting the entire tyria the best )
Season 3 is supperior in terms of quality because cutsenes better vo (pc voice acting)
it can use alot less deus ex taimi imho tho. The episodic nature ad how each episode is its own thing makes it feel abit disconected and like the story isnt going anywhere specific atm so im w8ing on ep 6 to see. Each epsode on its own is good tho. It also feels rather disconected from the actual world.

Characters: Marjory is acting how i would expect her to act given the current events that have taken place .
Same with braham even tho alot of ppl will disagree and say a norm doesnt act like that there the arguement that braham isnt a normal norm and he didnt experience a normal life or events so far so acting differently makes perfect sense (although i hope he can grow from this stage and show us how true norms act).
Taimi can go drink bleach (kidding but man the ex machina and her writing some times drive me mad)
Cannach is a legend.
The first rev charr (forgot his name) is mia so yeah…
Hot in comparison to ps is a huge up. The story has a tone on it you feel like you are in a hurry to do what you gotta do but plotholes and some thing that were missing on the final product bring it a bit lower for me. Still leagues better than ps and far more memorable moments in the hot storyline (including the final fight). There are tho alot of things that should ahve been in ther and their absence hurts the overall story. Things like the revenant and ofc the elite specs which there no explanation as to how any of these came to be.

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Sartharina.3542:

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

and suddenly dropping a deus ex machina on you had what value ?

When we are talking about writing the value is in the build up. Something the story has greatly been lacking.

it doesnt also need to be of 10 minutes it just needs a proper build up. Imo it doesnt matter that balthazar didnt make amazing sense from the getgo so long as they make it work in the furture.

It’s not just about Balth. There’s quite a few stretches in the story that leave a lot to be desired. From a machine that’s used to view the eternal alchemy being turned into a polarizing energy matrix, that was already heavily under guard from the arcane council who would have blocked any attempts to move it just as an example. None of that was remotely explained outside of “Oh look Taimi and Genius”. Genius only gets you so far, especially when dealing with your Elder who doesn’t respect you as a person, let alone trust you. Then there’s Batman whose somehow innately aware of an arrow used to slay dragons that had been lost to time yet he suddenly knows it’s exact location ?

I could go on for quite a while about these large scale plotholes that could have been fixed with more time put into the story and explaining the world state and allowing the characters to grow naturally as opposed to poorly using tropes and other literary devices.

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Sartharina.3542:

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

and suddenly dropping a deus ex machina on you had what value ?

When we are talking about writing the value is in the build up. Something the story has greatly been lacking.

it doesnt also need to be of 10 minutes it just needs a proper build up. Imo it doesnt matter that balthazar didnt make amazing sense from the getgo so long as they make it work in the furture.

It’s not just about Balth. There’s quite a few stretches in the story that leave a lot to be desired. From a machine that’s used to view the eternal alchemy being turned into a polarizing energy matrix, that was already heavily under guard from the arcane council who would have blocked any attempts to move it just as an example. None of that was remotely explained outside of “Oh look Taimi and Genius”. Genius only gets you so far, especially when dealing with your Elder who doesn’t respect you as a person, let alone trust you. Then there’s Batman whose somehow innately aware of an arrow used to slay dragons that had been lost to time yet he suddenly knows it’s exact location ?

I could go on for quite a while about these large scale plotholes that could have been fixed with more time put into the story and explaining the world state and allowing the characters to grow naturally as opposed to poorly using tropes and other literary devices.

Iirc taimi only used the basis of what the machine did and create something entirely new that had the ability to manipulate the magic so she didnt quite took the thing. Dont forget taimi worked with that machine for quite sometime back in se 2. But there was a basic train of though first with specer and the realisation of how dragon magic works the hypothesis of since omads machine can view these diff types of magic maybe theres a way to make a machine based on omad creation that manipulates that. Now the way she made it is missing but its not like with braham she woke up 1 morning and she made the machine out of thin air or came up with the theory about elder dragon magic.

I am not aware if that scroll was idd lost in time but supposedly his source gave him the leads to where this scroll was, if that is left untouched then yes that will be bad but theres always the window to turn the events in a way where his source plays a bigger parts and its revealed to have tried to manipulate events. At least he didnt wake up and know of its existance and location thank god for that.

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Sartharina.3542:

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

and suddenly dropping a deus ex machina on you had what value ?

When we are talking about writing the value is in the build up. Something the story has greatly been lacking.

it doesnt also need to be of 10 minutes it just needs a proper build up. Imo it doesnt matter that balthazar didnt make amazing sense from the getgo so long as they make it work in the furture.

It’s not just about Balth. There’s quite a few stretches in the story that leave a lot to be desired. From a machine that’s used to view the eternal alchemy being turned into a polarizing energy matrix, that was already heavily under guard from the arcane council who would have blocked any attempts to move it just as an example. None of that was remotely explained outside of “Oh look Taimi and Genius”. Genius only gets you so far, especially when dealing with your Elder who doesn’t respect you as a person, let alone trust you. Then there’s Batman whose somehow innately aware of an arrow used to slay dragons that had been lost to time yet he suddenly knows it’s exact location ?

I could go on for quite a while about these large scale plotholes that could have been fixed with more time put into the story and explaining the world state and allowing the characters to grow naturally as opposed to poorly using tropes and other literary devices.

Iirc taimi only used the basis of what the machine did and create something entirely new that had the ability to manipulate the magic so she didnt quite took the thing. Dont forget taimi worked with that machine for quite sometime back in se 2. But there was a basic train of though first with specer and the realisation of how dragon magic works the hypothesis of since omads machine can view these diff types of magic maybe theres a way to make a machine based on omad creation that manipulates that. Now the way she made it is missing but its not like with braham she woke up 1 morning and she made the machine out of thin air or came up with the theory about elder dragon magic.

I am not aware if that scroll was idd lost in time but supposedly his source gave him the leads to where this scroll was, if that is left untouched then yes that will be bad but theres always the window to turn the events in a way where his source plays a bigger parts and its revealed to have tried to manipulate events. At least he didnt wake up and know of its existance and location thank god for that.

Taimi literally say’s that’s Omads machine in the story, the only one of its kind. So sorry to burst that bubble it’s not a replica which really begs the question as to how the heck she was even able to come into possession of it. Again onto Batman, it goes to further showcase the problem. Which source, where, why, and the bigger question he somehow had all this knowledge and no one else could (Say for instance The Order of Whispers, the organization built on knowing most ancient secrets) ? I know what you’re implying, however for a narrative you cannot feasibly be that intentionally ambiguous when the item in question has such value to the story.

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Sartharina.3542:

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

and suddenly dropping a deus ex machina on you had what value ?

When we are talking about writing the value is in the build up. Something the story has greatly been lacking.

it doesnt also need to be of 10 minutes it just needs a proper build up. Imo it doesnt matter that balthazar didnt make amazing sense from the getgo so long as they make it work in the furture.

It’s not just about Balth. There’s quite a few stretches in the story that leave a lot to be desired. From a machine that’s used to view the eternal alchemy being turned into a polarizing energy matrix, that was already heavily under guard from the arcane council who would have blocked any attempts to move it just as an example. None of that was remotely explained outside of “Oh look Taimi and Genius”. Genius only gets you so far, especially when dealing with your Elder who doesn’t respect you as a person, let alone trust you. Then there’s Batman whose somehow innately aware of an arrow used to slay dragons that had been lost to time yet he suddenly knows it’s exact location ?

I could go on for quite a while about these large scale plotholes that could have been fixed with more time put into the story and explaining the world state and allowing the characters to grow naturally as opposed to poorly using tropes and other literary devices.

Iirc taimi only used the basis of what the machine did and create something entirely new that had the ability to manipulate the magic so she didnt quite took the thing. Dont forget taimi worked with that machine for quite sometime back in se 2. But there was a basic train of though first with specer and the realisation of how dragon magic works the hypothesis of since omads machine can view these diff types of magic maybe theres a way to make a machine based on omad creation that manipulates that. Now the way she made it is missing but its not like with braham she woke up 1 morning and she made the machine out of thin air or came up with the theory about elder dragon magic.

I am not aware if that scroll was idd lost in time but supposedly his source gave him the leads to where this scroll was, if that is left untouched then yes that will be bad but theres always the window to turn the events in a way where his source plays a bigger parts and its revealed to have tried to manipulate events. At least he didnt wake up and know of its existance and location thank god for that.

Taimi literally say’s that’s Omads machine in the story, the only one of its kind. So sorry to burst that bubble it’s not a replica which really begs the question as to how the heck she was even able to come into possession of it. Again onto Batman, it goes to further showcase the problem. Which source, where, why, and the bigger question he somehow had all this knowledge and no one else could (Say for instance The Order of Whispers, the organization built on knowing most ancient secrets) ? I know what you’re implying, however for a narrative you cannot feasibly be that intentionally ambiguous when the item in question has such value to the story.

She discovered Ommadd’s machine in the leyline hub during Season 2. It’s pretty clear that no one else knew quite what it was. She had time to work with it, and presumably, brought it back to the hidden lab.

Vayne.8563:

She discovered Ommadd’s machine in the leyline hub during Season 2. It’s pretty clear that no one else knew quite what it was. She had time to work with it, and presumably, brought it back to the hidden lab.

Again, not possible. That was resolved in S2 when Phlunt and the Arcane Council took control of the machine.

Even if we presume she had time to somehow work on it, she stated that the machine used in the most recent episode was ommadds… The only one of its kind in existence. Which begs the question how she got the machine out of the Arcane Council’s hands, let alone past the supervision of Phlunt who literally has 0 respect for her.

TexZero.7910:

Vayne.8563:

She discovered Ommadd’s machine in the leyline hub during Season 2. It’s pretty clear that no one else knew quite what it was. She had time to work with it, and presumably, brought it back to the hidden lab.

Again, not possible. That was resolved in S2 when Phlunt and the Arcane Council took control of the machine.

Even if we presume she had time to somehow work on it, she stated that the machine used in the most recent episode was ommadds… The only one of its kind in existence. Which begs the question how she got the machine out of the Arcane Council’s hands, let alone past the supervision of Phlunt who literally has 0 respect for her.

I don’t know why you think the Council had any knowledge of Ommad’s machine. What they took was the device she built, from parts you got for her, that allowed them to do something. While the machine was near there, there was no indication that the council was there looking at anything but her machine.

Sure in the real world they would have looked around and tried to figure out what everything there was, except that there’s Asuran crap everywhere there are Asurans and they probably don’t have time to stop and analyze every single thing, particularly with the waypoint dilemma going on.

In short, there’s no indication Phlunt had any knowledge of Omadd’s Machine.

Vayne.8563:

TexZero.7910:

Vayne.8563:

She discovered Ommadd’s machine in the leyline hub during Season 2. It’s pretty clear that no one else knew quite what it was. She had time to work with it, and presumably, brought it back to the hidden lab.

Again, not possible. That was resolved in S2 when Phlunt and the Arcane Council took control of the machine.

Even if we presume she had time to somehow work on it, she stated that the machine used in the most recent episode was ommadds… The only one of its kind in existence. Which begs the question how she got the machine out of the Arcane Council’s hands, let alone past the supervision of Phlunt who literally has 0 respect for her.

I don’t know why you think the Council had any knowledge of Ommad’s machine. What they took was the device she built, from parts you got for her, that allowed them to do something. While the machine was near there, there was no indication that the council was there looking at anything but her machine.

Sure in the real world they would have looked around and tried to figure out what everything there was, except that there’s Asuran crap everywhere there are Asurans and they probably don’t have time to stop and analyze every single thing, particularly with the waypoint dilemma going on.

In short, there’s no indication Phlunt had any knowledge of Omadd’s Machine.

Phlunt was there during the entire machine calibration test and attack and knew directly where her invention came from. He even hard 4 Arcane Council guards present when he seized Taimi’s work during The Dragon’s Reach part 2. Now, you can try to write this off and say, oh they clearly only meant her work but that’s shotty writing when its painfully clear given Phlunt and the Council’s involvement that there’s no way they’d let that machine sit freely or be moved without consent. None of which was ever showcased or even spoken of.

Everybody is a noble prize writer in this forum…

story cant appeal to everyone , i personally dont like being the commander and the main character but i can live with it

vier.1327:

Everybody is a noble prize writer in this forum…

Don’t have to be a noble prize writer to have valid criticism of sub-par writing.

I know that may come off as a shocker, but here’s another one for you. Those same noble prize writers feasted of similar criticism before reaching their acclaimed status. Criticism and Critiquing is how one improves and grows.

TexZero.7910:

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

Sartharina.3542:

10 minute cinematics are too long to be of value.

and suddenly dropping a deus ex machina on you had what value ?

When we are talking about writing the value is in the build up. Something the story has greatly been lacking.

it doesnt also need to be of 10 minutes it just needs a proper build up. Imo it doesnt matter that balthazar didnt make amazing sense from the getgo so long as they make it work in the furture.

It’s not just about Balth. There’s quite a few stretches in the story that leave a lot to be desired. From a machine that’s used to view the eternal alchemy being turned into a polarizing energy matrix, that was already heavily under guard from the arcane council who would have blocked any attempts to move it just as an example. None of that was remotely explained outside of “Oh look Taimi and Genius”. Genius only gets you so far, especially when dealing with your Elder who doesn’t respect you as a person, let alone trust you. Then there’s Batman whose somehow innately aware of an arrow used to slay dragons that had been lost to time yet he suddenly knows it’s exact location ?

I could go on for quite a while about these large scale plotholes that could have been fixed with more time put into the story and explaining the world state and allowing the characters to grow naturally as opposed to poorly using tropes and other literary devices.

That calls for more gameplay, not a godkitten 10-minute “OH GOD LET ME SKIP THIS kitten” cutscene. Ideally, no custcene should be longer than one minute.

It would probably be difficult to earn a Nobel Prize for MMO story-telling. Though, there may be a different award to be won.

There’s always the ‘Community Creations’ sub-forum. Anything posted there gives ArenaNet rights to use in the game.

Good luck.

Racial: I would have liked different reactions or comments for different situations as well, but I guess that would be too much work (within their release schedule). SWTOR’s individual storyline was also scrapped with the expansion and narrowed down to one overall narrative, even though it happend in GW2 with Zaithan already. Not saying it as an excuse for everything.

Voice Acting + Dialogues: I’ve mentioned it a couple of times but the Commander’s dialouges around the DW’s team has become more and more awkward. He/she stammers around (all the aehm, uhm etc) and the overly-careful choice of words makes it rather awkward. Not saying he/she should become some cold-blooded military drone.
I’m fine with the Voice Acting itself overall, though. I like the male Sylvari voice as it sounds quite sophisticated (British English?), whereas the female Sylvari sounds as if she’s permanetly stressed out and somehow on the edge.

Story + Characters: I don’t have really high expectations as long as I’m entertained. With the current Episode, I wasn’t THAT happy but cannot really explain it reasonably. The reveal left me completely indifferent (as someone who doesn’t participate in speculations, meta-analysing stuff and plays and and “rates” it as it is written. So on a shallow surface level more or less).

I certainly didn’t share the general complaint about Trahearne, even though non-Sylvari Commanders becoming instant friends with him was indeed rather out of nowhere in retrospec.
I was also rather okay with DE2 in HoT pre-LS3. I’m positively biased in favor of Taimi and Caithe, so I won’t comment further on it. But as much as some people may loathe Taimi, I thought it was greath that she’s been one of the stable DW members so far, instead of some old “Commander vs. the rest of the world” situation, you may or may not know from other stories, until everyone else has sorted out their individual problems. But to be fair, I’m anything but a drama fan. Drama has its place in general, but can also easily be done wrong and thus becomes annoying. Rox NEEDS more exposition as many other players have requested in the past.

The main issue for me is the episodic nature and I think that is what is hurting the story a lot. Whilst the Personal Story was poorly written, certainly from a dialogue point of view, being one large campaign meant it kept things together and quite simple. That meant despite the quality of writing, it was easy to follow what was the current story thread and for the main, players seem to have enjoyed it first time through. GW1 had the same – where the writing may have dropped, the continuous nature of the story meant we didn’t have to wait half a year for the quality to jump back up. Epsiodic writing needs to take this into account.

Whilst the quality of the dialogue and the writing has improved season upon season, the story itself is getting convoluted and the main narrative is now lost for S3. With so little being told in an episode, we are having to wait months and in some cases years for any sort of pay off to the myriad of threads and strands being thrust upon us.

S3 alone has brought in;
- Lazarus, who wasn’t Lazarus, but no real explanation or motivation as to why
- The White Mantle and Caudecus’ plans for to takeover Kryta
- Rise of Primordus
- Rise of Jormag
- E – a thread nearly 4 years old!!!!!!
- Kasmeer/Jory relationship
- Braham going off alone
- Breaking of Jormags tooth – a massively significant event worthy of its own arc, glossed over
- Taimi’s research and techno babble and how she seemingly can do what entire races, Orders and research teams have failed to do
- The fall and Rise of a God thrown in seemingly at random
- The sudden temporary defeat of 2 Elder Dragons
- Aurene and her training and whatever her significance may or may not be. (surely The Exalted can tell us?)
- The forming of the new Guild
- Rytlock’s story

That’s a lot for 5-6 episodes with only the White Mantle/Kryta being tied up rather neatly. We have too many central stories and narratives, rather than a single clear thread and neatly told side stories being wrapped up around them. If Balthazar and the Gods are the main story, that should have been built in earlier, rather than setting up Lazarus just so they can tick off Mursaat as “covered” then discarding him utterly for no reason and having every episode throw up a new plot thread, with only episode 4 showing any kind of pay off.

Anet need to realise they have the story all plotted out, but we only see the bits they hand us every 3 months and so it’s going to look a convoluted mess to some of us.

I’m probably being a bit harsh with the criticism, considering I have largely enjoyed S3, but that’s more down to the maps, the little bits of lore in the maps and the much improved game mechanics inside the story. I will also give credit to the dialogue, because that has continued to move forward in leaps and bounds from the days of the PS and S1.

I have a good amount of thoughts on this matter but I will share what one of the writers said a few years back on how they intended to deliver the plots of Living World. I couldn’t find the quote, but Randulf actually commented on a thread regarding this discussion. He probably remembers the quote.

“Think of the Living Story as similiar to how Game of Thrones is written.” (something along those lines.)

They intended to deliver suspenseful twists and surprises that were to keep the player guessing during each episode. Unfortunately (in my opinion), this never delivered like they intended due to plot holes, retcon, and stories being driven in all sorts of directions.

This should be taken as hearsay, but if my memory serves me correctly, the first living stories were evolving as they were being written/developed. They had an intended focus, but there was never a set in stone direction.

Lastly (again take this as hearsay), ArenaNet thoroughly encouraged staff to theorize their own ideas on where to take stories, lore, etc. I believe this led to many different directions happening at once with no clear direction on where to take the overarching story.

This was a few years back and I don’t follow the development process and seldom play (2 episodes back). I’d imagine Mike has changed things up a bit since then.

Happy Gaming,
Dan

I remember the quote and it is one I still disagree with 3-4 years on, since they are different mediums (plus I’ve plenty of other issues with GoT storytelling, but that’s by-the-by).
TV can pack continuous, engaging story into a single 1 hour episode. In Season 3 we have 2 instances per episode which prob make up an hour, but due to gameplay, are restricted by how much story can be told. Which means it needs to get to the point quick and be punchy. So far, I don’t think it’s delivering that consistently enough and as you say, is going off in all directions.

Episode 4 for me got it spot on. Episode 1 was also another great example, but has been undone in Epsiode 5 now we know the reveal there was irrelevant and just a curveball for the sake of throwing in the Mursaat which players wanted to see.

Honestly I am a bit ticked that there is no Race specific dialogues involving certain race specific events nor past choices in Zhaitan Arc. However, I guess this is mostly due to how players can skip the Zhaitan Arc and just jump into Season 2 to Season 3 storyline thus the story may have issues if they did go through Zhaitan Arc and complete certain storyline points to reference their actions.

EdwinLi.1284:

Honestly I am a bit ticked that there is no Race specific dialogues involving certain race specific events nor past choices in Zhaitan Arc. However, I guess this is mostly due to how players can skip the Zhaitan Arc and just jump into Season 2 to Season 3 storyline thus the story may have issues if they did go through Zhaitan Arc and complete certain storyline points to reference their actions.

Technically, none of your choices ultimately mattered during the Zhaitan Arc. Regardless of what you chose to do, you are the Pact Commander and Slayer of Zhaitan, even if you don’t run through the personal story. You can skip LS2 and you start out exactly as you did if you ran through it. You are still chasing after Caithe who has the Egg.

If you played Charr, you basically say good-bye to your warband and never see them again at the point when you joined an Order.

For another instance, no matter if you chose to do the Apatia storyline during the My Greatest Fear story arc or not, the Pact ends up with the Krait Blue Orb by the time the Battle of Fort Trinity comes around. The idea is that even though you , the Commander, didn’t do it, someone else, maybe less important, did.

That said there are certain race-based dialogue sprinkled throughout LS. If you are playing an asura character, when Taimi and co. are examining Scarlet’s room during LS2, Taimi has a few extra lines of dialogue that reference the fact that you were the Snaff Prize winner.

The previous LS episode basically ran with the idea that the human noble, commoner and grew up on the streets options all happened as Caudecus had a hand in manipulating all the events in those early storylines.

The problem with gw2’s writing is simply that the story goes too fast and tries to do too much at once. There are too many plot elements being introduced and left unexplained, all for the sake of the twist.

For me, the thing with twists in a story is that I already anticipate the reveal in my head. I already see it happening. It’s NOT about shock value.

The main problem with the storys atm is that there doesn’t seem to be any fact checking too many contradictions or too many loop holes, gw1 whilst wasn’t the best story in the world it felt great,kept attention,kept a decent pace.

Gw2’s writing team lost a lot of heavy hitters and they seemed to have replaced those heavy hitters with Sunday book reading club.

I wish Anet would be more focused in their storytelling. Right now it seems like they’re just throwing in any idea they can think of to see if it sticks. That means that no single plotline is getting the attention it deserves, and what should be important turning point moments quickly become irrelevant or fall by the wayside when the plot suddenly whiplashes in a totally different direction. Rather than half a dozen false starts and side stories, I’d rather see a simpler but more solid narrative arc with a build up leading to a resolution.

It seems they’re trying to make it all payoff with no breaks from the action – but without the leadup that’s merited to make it meaningful, the payoffs don’t count for as much.

I also think Anet needs to remember that even though they know in advance how their story all fits together, the audience does not, and it’s not like episodic television where you only have to wait a week between installments with a long hiatus coming only at the end of a season. There are months between every episode of living story, so with so many plot threads left in the air at any given moment, it can be a very long time before an idea is revisited, and by that point it’s hard to remember or care what’s going on.

What it all boils down to for me with the plot is that I would rather see Anet do less but do it better rather than do more but make it all so superficial. I think the pendulum has shifted way too far toward quantity of ideas over quality of ideas, and it would be easier for me to stay engaged if it could swing back a bit.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

I wish Anet would be more focused in their storytelling. Right now it seems like they’re just throwing in any idea they can think of to see if it sticks. That means that no single plotline is getting the attention it deserves, and what should be important turning point moments quickly become irrelevant or fall by the wayside when the plot suddenly whiplashes in a totally different direction. Rather than half a dozen false starts and side stories, I’d rather see a simpler but more solid narrative arc with a build up leading to a resolution.

It seems they’re trying to make it all payoff with no breaks from the action – but without the leadup that’s merited to make it meaningful, the payoffs don’t count for as much.

I also think Anet needs to remember that even though they know in advance how their story all fits together, the audience does not, and it’s not like episodic television where you only have to wait a week between installments with a long hiatus coming only at the end of a season. There are months between every episode of living story, so with so many plot threads left in the air at any given moment, it can be a very long time before an idea is revisited, and by that point it’s hard to remember or care what’s going on.

What it all boils down to for me with the plot is that I would rather see Anet do less but do it better rather than do more but make it all so superficial. I think the pendulum has shifted way too far toward quantity of ideas over quality of ideas, and it would be easier for me to stay engaged if it could swing back a bit.

Hear hear!

@Anakita Snakecharm: Well said.

I’d also add my usual criticism about the almost exclusive focus on NPC drama over “this is my story”, and about the scarcity of racial dialog options — anything to make me feel like my character actually has a place in this.

I suppose it is connected to the “all over the place” feel of the story. If you’re cramming half a dozen plot threads into as many episodes in which the actual bits of storytelling are heavily padded with combat, there’s going to be very little room for “superfluous” things like roleplaying options for the supposed protagonist.

The major problem with ANet’s writing is they don’t follow this principal: “SHOW, DON’T TELL.”

Trahearne, Scarlett, and even Taimi to some extent, are all victims of ANet’s “tell” philosophy. They simply show up, and we’re TOLD why these characters are supposed to be so great. Why they’re the most knowledgeable. Why we should respect them.

That’s not good storytelling in an interactive narrative. The characters come off as Mary/Villain Sues. They aren’t respected because we haven’t interacted in a way to make us respect them. When characters are sewn into the storyline so that we see their accomplishments – we SEE what they are capable of – then it will be more impactful when something great or terrible comes of them.

But then again, ANet’s writers are just going to kill off every other character for shock value, so best not to get too interested in them anyways. You likely won’t have time.

Also, the missing charr warband is ABSOLUTE BULLKITTEN. Why are my warbandmates not in my home instance? I can’t go visit them? They wouldn’t follow me on adventures? I can’t even summon them with my racial elite? That makes no sense.

The early story arcs are more important than people generally give them credit for. A lot of the characters from those arcs actually appear later in the game (especially in Orr).

Also, some characters becoming completely useless and bipolar.

Marjory and Kasmeer don’t seem to share a bond beyond the kiss, and Marjory is just annoying to the point of making Canach look like the soul of the party.

Kasmeer is just there for fanservice.

Taimi is cute but I feel she just doesn’t cares about anything until it’s too late and she is just used as a pedal to get last minute solutions.

Canach… Why is he even in the group?

They are wasting Rox’s character, and Brahm is now an kitten

To be honest they could kill everyone except Taimi and nothing would ever change, as she’s just the Mary Sue that helps us find how to do things while our character becomes less and less important.

Aldath.1275:

Also, some characters becoming completely useless and bipolar.

Marjory and Kasmeer don’t seem to share a bond beyond the kiss, and Marjory is just annoying to the point of making Canach look like the soul of the party.

Kasmeer is just there for fanservice.

Taimi is cute but I feel she just doesn’t cares about anything until it’s too late and she is just used as a pedal to get last minute solutions.

Canach… Why is he even in the group?

They are wasting Rox’s character, and Brahm is now an kitten

To be honest they could kill everyone except Taimi and nothing would ever change, as she’s just the Mary Sue that helps us find how to do things while our character becomes less and less important.

Oh no! Characters with real flaws! Or do you prefer characters that are perfect in every way? In which case, what difference would there be left between characters?

I agree with you, but imo HoT wasn’t so bad as you say. I am aware they skipped lot of topics (Nightmare Court especially- who the heck is Chrysanthea?), but it wasn’t so bad. I didn’t like that the characters died- Eir…. I don’t care about Trahearne, because he was meant to be dead in his Dream.

In HoT our enemy wasn’t Mordrem, not Mordremoth, but Caithe- everytime we saw the dialogue against her- everytime somebody had regrets etc and I think these regrets aginst Caithe hid the real villain- Mordremoth.

The most horrible lack between Personal Story and other LS and HoT is that the commander tricks the Orders as the trash- he has his own team and do everything with them- what is annoying, I would love to get the episodes with the Order you chose in Personal Story, for example I would love to see the Master of Whispers- Riel again (she has really pretty eyes).

So I just wanna play with my Order and depend on them and their researches, not just Taimi the little teenager.

Vesuvius.9874:

Aldath.1275:

Also, some characters becoming completely useless and bipolar.

Marjory and Kasmeer don’t seem to share a bond beyond the kiss, and Marjory is just annoying to the point of making Canach look like the soul of the party.

Kasmeer is just there for fanservice.

Taimi is cute but I feel she just doesn’t cares about anything until it’s too late and she is just used as a pedal to get last minute solutions.

Canach… Why is he even in the group?

They are wasting Rox’s character, and Brahm is now an kitten

To be honest they could kill everyone except Taimi and nothing would ever change, as she’s just the Mary Sue that helps us find how to do things while our character becomes less and less important.

Oh no! Characters with real flaws! Or do you prefer characters that are perfect in every way? In which case, what difference would there be left between characters?

Real flaws? Nothing listed there is a real flaw, it’s just a product of bad writting. This looks like “The Room”, that weird movie where all characters were supposed to be important and have a personal story, but end up getting in the way and the writter in the end forgets about why those characters were there and become stupidly awkward.

What can I bring to this discussion about LS3 storytelling?

I think it’s not so bad as you are telling.

You are focusing on bad aspects of the story (there is really many of them).

I wrote in one of my topics that LS3 has his most important points, let me write the part of it here:
Living World 3 is all about:
1) The origins of Dragon’s Watch- sending invites, talking with old friends,
2) Discovering Dragons’ secrets in Rata Novus,
3) Glint’s Egg- Aurene in fact.

Even the first announcement of LS3 showed what is the points of it (look above).

Lazarus’ thread WAS NOT the point of LS3, it just appeared during the more important things than Lazarus. Anyway ANet gave some hints that Lazarus is not what seemed to be (Caudecus said he is a false god, the White Mantle follower who was standing near Caudecus when Lazarus appeared had the Hound of Balthazar’s shield.).

But well if he was a God- Balthazar, they could’ve do this better, but they did not, well, he is a God, so we can’t expect he will start to tell everything to us- to the people who attacked him surprisingly.

I just wanna remind you that the God appeared on Tyria after more than 1300 years!!!

For Egg’s hatchling we waited really long and LS3 made this event really epic and amazing- Aurene maybe is not perfect-looking, but we have a new Dragon.

I don’t like how you are complaining and saying that everything was bad, storytelling is bad, characters behave bad…. Ehhh, this tires me and suicide calls.

Focus on the points of LS3- Aurene, Dragon’s Watch and the problems of this guild, the discoveries about the dragons (now we have the hard proof that Order of whispers was right all the time about that we have to put Dragons to sleep).

I don’t like how Taimi suddenly knows everything, but if Phlunt would never know about the secret lab, Taimi would never realise that killing another dragon is bad for Tyria and it may destroy Tyria in fact.

Lazarus’ thread was bad to LS3, but it made LS3 more interesting and really complicated. Anyway it was never the point of LS3, just the additional thread for storytelling so I am not surprised that they tricked it a bit like trash.

You can say everything about LS3, but they really made the good story- the problems with Jory, Braham made the story great.

The Taimi’s researches made the story amazing and I always waited for the chapters with Taimi, because even if she is wrong sometimes she is an amazing character, and great thing for story (dont care if she is gonna be like Scarlet), and I hope she is gonna be like Snaff, like Zojja, like the geniuses, who made so much good in Tyria, who fought with Dragons, with enemies. Taimi is just a hope for Tyria and she has really hard task to do, but I hope she will work with Phlunt, because Phlunt (maybe he is a jerk), but he is really clever asura and he has so much to give as Taimi has.

I am just waiting who is gonna die in LS3- PLEASE NO ANOTHER SYLVARI- THAT IS BORING AS H*LL!!!!!

Demmi’s death was really sad!! But well I expect one more death in LS3.

If it’s gonna be a Sylvari again (I will be angry) it seems Caithe is gonna die, but we have 2 more chaarcters who might die in LS3- Rox and Braham.

Anyway let’s wait for the end of LS3 and then say what was bad, what was good.

I suppose we will get lot of answers in Episode 6.

What about the mysterious “E”- we are getting some news from her/him. If he/she wanna be incognito and help us, I don’t mind. I like that we have a mysterious good soul, who helps us, our allies. And I doubt we will know who is she/he. And better for the story is never to find out who is “E”.

Aldath.1275:

Marjory and Kasmeer don’t seem to share a bond beyond the kiss

I have been replaying Season 2, and honestly I felt that the characters were much better written then than in HoT or Season 3, which is weird since everything else in writing has improved since Season 2.

Naturally this includes a bond between Marjory and Kasmeer. Or who remembers that Rox has the superstition of spitting for luck?

It’s almost like Anet’s writers are incapable of focusing on multiple aspects of storytelling at once…

Aldath.1275:

Canach… Why is he even in the group?

Technically, he isn’t. He was assigned by Anise (aka forced into the role) to work with us during HoT and Season 3, and now that he’s no longer bound to service (part of his repentence from his criminal actions in Season 1), he left. He may show up again, out of a sense of camaraderie and strategic alignment.

Aldath.1275:

To be honest they could kill everyone except Taimi and nothing would ever change, as she’s just the Mary Sue that helps us find how to do things while our character becomes less and less important.

They actually managed to subvert the Mary Sue trope with episode 5, with Taimi’s massive blunder.

Which was, surprisingly, well done.