Guild Wars 2

it may seem trivial considering Zhaitan is dead, but the question regarding one of the most powerful undeads in Tyria are both Zhaitan and Palawa Joko. In the personal Story for the Sylvari there is another lich, soldier risen of Zhaitan called “Mazdak the Accursed”. Zhaitan is strong enough to control one lich but would we assume he control Palawa Joko, or was he strong enough to fight off Zhaitans control? What about his army of the dead though?
it isn’t relevant with the time line now, but in terms of lore the clash between two figures who control the domain of death this question does leave kitten.
What happened in Elona while Zhaitans power started emerging and how was Palawa Joko affected by it?

Joko fought Zhaitan, and kept the risen away from most of Elona. “…the dragon’s undead army wages war even now along the northern Elonian border, preventing all in Tyria from departing for other lands…for now.”

Risen aren’t undead, technically, or at least that’s what was shown to us originally (seems they’re backtracking for the sake of catering to popular theories or they intentionally gave false implications contradicting further false implications), and Mazdak was a risen more than undead. Zhaitan never usurped pre-existing undead, and Trahearne says that Zhaitan couldn’t control his minions.

Undead are dead bodies (you have to die to become one), risen are turned into dead bodies or are were dead before. Last one is more like switching clothes, though, as there exists magic to be turned back.

Though it is only a flimsy definition, as raising the dead seems to be possible in this world, so it’s mostly a thing connected to who influences you after you died

Kellach never died when turned into a risen, and there are plants that are corrupted by Zhaitan’s magic thus can be considered risen, but also do not die.

The main difference between undead and risen, though, is the same as the difference between icebrood and ice elementals or branded and earth elementals. And that’s magic corruption, enslaved will to an Elder Dragon, and most importantly: that they were something else before. That last bit seems hardest to distinguish for risen, but would you ever call an icebrood or branded an elemental?

Well, apparently Anet does for branded in the PoF previews… Oddly. So maybe the old established differences we saw before are no more.

all this points the were brought up bring me to another question then.
considering Ghosts are not affected by Zhaitans power but Zhaitan is the dragon of death and risen are still undead but not as undead as a zombie, but still count as dead that were risen or living being corrupted to be dead the question is how vast was Zhaitans control over other types of undead if could have. I mean, he did rise a dead nation from the bottom of the sea. Its like powers of Mordemoth over plants or Primoridus over fire and so on.

Maybe Zhaitan could dominate Palawa Joko, I don’t know, I don’t see a reason why not, but Zhaitan never had the chance to corrupt Palawa Joko.
I assume Zhaitan would have to fly personally to Elona to corrupt Palawa Joko if it was possible to do it himself, minions were just fodder. Either Zhaitan didn’t care or he couldn’t

exactly its something that should be answered i think during the next expansion sometime either by an NPC of the factions kittenearch the idea or a general thing

Ghosts are a little different from other undead, enough that some folks argue they shouldn’t be called undead at all. Zombies and skeletons and mummies are all bodies that have died and then started moving around again. Risen are the same deal, except that sometimes they skip the part where the corpse is inanimate and unconscious. Any of the above may or may not have the body’s soul still bound within the decaying husk. All of the above are dependent on magical intervention* altering the usual course of death in Tyria.

Ghosts, on the other hand, are just disembodied souls. It’s not ‘normal’ for them to remain in Tyria, and when they do it’s often the result of a curse, but it can also simply be that the spirit refuses to move on, or found a way to wander back into the world from the Mists. When magic is involved, it doesn’t also form embodied undead, and conversely, when necromancy creates disembodied undead they come in the form of wraiths or phantoms or shades, all visibly distinct from ghosts.

Undead start out as unconscious, which is why we’re said to ‘create’ them. Ghosts are conscious, so assuming magical control over them would be more like enslavement. Risen span that particular gap- they can either be created/revived as a subservient consciousness, or enslave an existing one.

*There are a few places in GW1, largely confined to Prophecies content, which mention zombies on the like forming without magical intervention, usually when their resting place is disturbed or they died particularly traumatic deaths- in other words, the same circumstances that give rise to ghosts. I suspect this is just a case of a ghost that refuses/can’t leave its body, effectively becoming the necromancer that reanimates the corpse, but we’ve never been told for sure.

The way I see it, there are limits to an Elder Dragon’s control, and can be resisted if the creature has enough force of will. Many Sylvari was able to resist the call of Moredremoth, Canoch and the Pact Commander in particular.

Joko is an S-class Necromancer, up there with the Kilbrohn; both easily having enough will power to resist the Dragons, and would likely only struggle in a direct confrontation.

As for his armies, turning them would probably be difficult due to way magic is used to create each army. Undead are bound to their masters, either directly through magical bonds, or indirectly channeled through objects of power. Control can be wrested if the new master can exercise greater power then the current one; with proximity often being a factor. Agents can often be used to relay and strengthen control due to their stronger bonds with their master, and usually become Commanders within the ranks of their armies.

While stressful on him, its not difficult to believe Joko was expending extra effort to make sure his armies remained under his control.

In Siren’s landing they likely call them undead because of the fact Zhaitan is gone and now more risen can’t be made.

Also IIRC, the ones calling them that are ghosts, not living people?

As for Palawa Joko, he’s literally the most powerful necromancer we’ve seen ingame/in the lore. As a lich, he was impossible to kill and had to be entombed to contain him by the original order of whispers, Turai Ossa’s personal guard.

edit: there are two other factors.

A: Joko has little interest in expanding his control past the borders of Elona (as he’s proven such. He wanted to conquer and rule Elona, and once he did that he ceased expanding.) Thus his efforts against the risen was more of a border patrol/holding line then warfare.

B: Zhaitan has shown no interest in going after Elona as well, as said above, the way I’ve seen it described was less war, more of the risen just moving outward from Orr and the Awakened sitting there fighting them back if they got close.

There is also I believe a line Trahearne says during personal story, which was undead minions/constructs were immune or protected from Zhaitan’s corruption turning them into Risen. I don’t know if that applies to undead beings like ghosts, skeletons, zombies, or awakened that were already undead when Zhaitan’s corruption hit them (By Zhaitan’s breath/presence, or his champions).

We do have instances were ghosts are present and are completely untouched by Zhaitan’s corruption, even though their bodies were.