Guild Wars 2

I completed yesterday the story from the Head of the Snake. And by reading the Caudecus journal I found the references to the fake aspect used to resurrect Lazarus.

It was a topic several days ago with trying to figure who “Lazarus” is in fact, and I quoted from it:

Konig Des Todes.2086

The ritual which destroyed the bloodstone is an entirely SEPARATE event from the ritual to revive Lazarus!

This is my opinion too. And only one experiment succeeded. From Xera’s reaction: “He is almost complete. Even if I die, He will live.”, we can understand that Lazarus was not resurrected. And even if he is alive, he was too weak to absorb such an amount of magic released by the explosion.

So, only the entity emerged after the explosion remains. Who it is? Let’s see the facts:
1. In the first second of life he absorbed an enormous quantity of magic. He was this strong from the very beginning.
2. He states than Kryta is not interesting him and he has other higher plans. HM? Lazarus swore that Kryta will feel his revenge even after hundred of years. And now he claim he is not interested? Not very Lazarish :-)).
3. The mursats were powerful creatures, but even a full healthy Mursat is not able (in my opinion) to absorb the energy released by an exploding Bloodstone. Lazarus included.

To not make this post too long, my conclusion is that the entity who appeared after the explosion is not Lazarus. Is something more powerful than a merely Mursat. Who? In my humble opinion this can be only Abaddon.

He can absorb the magic contained in the Stone because the magic is his magic. He is powerful enough to do this.
This can solve some of the questions – the higher plans are to absorb the magic form the other Bloodstones and to settle the matters with the other gods. I think that a first step can be to erase the Forgotten from the world map.

If this supposition is true, then in this moment Marjory is already a follower of Abaddon. This guy is a master of deception :-)). And the devs can use Abaddon as a reason for the next power up of the specializations – something like a class will have access to several forms of magic.

I hope I did not just create a piece of SF :-)))

It’s been pretty much Word of Godded that Abaddon is gone, never to return. They may retcon that of course, but it does make it unlikely.

Menzies or some powerful demon, now…

draxynnic.3719:

It’s been pretty much Word of Godded that Abaddon is gone, never to return. They may retcon that of course, but it does make it unlikely.

Menzies or some powerful demon, now…

I agree he won’t be abbadon, but it would be fun to watch. There are a lot of links to abbadon in this story.

Abaddon is impossible, in the words of the gods, “he’s broken beyond the form of a thought”. Interesting wording as it means some aspect of him still exists. I think they did it so that they could still do some story involving him, but not have to worry about potential revival plots

draxynnic.3719:

It’s been pretty much Word of Godded that Abaddon is gone, never to return. They may retcon that of course, but it does make it unlikely.

Menzies or some powerful demon, now…

Menzies is indeed a good candidate. His Shadow Army already resembled the White Mantle in GW1 so him converting more White Mantle into Shadow Army members isn’t out of the question.

I am going to assume that we will see Menzies reveal himself and see Dhuum as well.

I’ve been wondering what Menzies looks like….

Well, it seems logic (at last for me) that absorbing the magic released by the Bloodstone explosion is not something a mortal can do. Even if that mortal is a Mursat. So only an entity having even greater powers than the Mursats remain. A god.

Although Menzies is a good candidate, the way the “resurrected Lazarus” appeared is not a Menzies like way of acting. He is the brother of Balthazar, and he is more involved in the war / chaos / destruction aspects. He had no involvement in the act of sealing the magic in the Bloodstones. Why to choose a resurrection way involving forces you cannot master?

A lot of details in the resurrection story points to an entity having deep knowledge about Secrets. And able to deceive everyone in order to make them to follow his plans. A very good Abaddon description.

The identity of the “resurrected Lazarus” is even more important now when the story suggests that a god may walk on the world.

It’s been established that Menzies will use treachery to accomplish his goals. Given his association with shadow, and that his greatest known servant is a mesmer, it stands to reason that he’d be happy to use deception as well.

When it comes to the question you raise of familiarity… while Abaddon was the god most associated with magic, I wouldn’t bet against any of the gods or their relatives (particularly a weaker one like Menzies, since there is evidence that the gods might have a maximum level of magic they can absorb) being able to absorb a large quantity of magic.

The big question is why would any of these people even pretend to be our ally and offer to fight the dragons? While it might be an exciting twist, there’s still the issue of wanting to kill the dragons. Now, I could believe that the mursaat would have wanted to help fight the dragons, as they tried to exterminate their race, too, but Menzies? Dhuum? OK, maybe Abaddon, but he’s dead/absorbed by Kormir.

There are a number of possible answers to that. They might want the dragons dead because, if left unchecked, the dragons might be a threat to them too. They might want the dragons dead simply so they can claim the dragons for themselves. Or they might not care about the dragons at all, but pretending that they do can help them get into a position where they can achieve what they DO care about.

I’ve been genuinely waiting for someone to post this thread. Let’s get into this!

Right after I completed Head of the Snake on the day of its release, I immediately jumped to the same conclusion: That whoever absorbed the magical explosion that could have potentially destroyed half of the continent, definitely was not a Mursaat, nor a Mantle, but someone with access to the very same knowledge the Seer, Abaddon, and the rest of the original Six had used when creating/learning about/realeasing magic from/shattering the Bloodstone.

Even the resurrected “Lazarus” talks about the White Mantle as if they were inferior creatures having no idea how to use the Bloodstones (“misguided White Mantle tinkering”), and now we know that he is not actually Lazarus. So who is he?

Since the release of GW2, there has been quite a few references to Abaddon, the God of Knowledge and Secrets. Back in 1326, Evon campaigned with an Abaddon fractal (to uncover the true story behind his fall!), and the Priory itself honors Abaddon by keeping a statue of him in their secret archives. What if Arenanet is actually considering bringing back that story in a way? What if, in fact, the original Pantheon of Six were warned by the Forgotten/Seers about the Elder Dragons, but Abaddon was the only one who cared to stop them? He probably spent countless hours studying the Bloodstone and learning the secrets of Tyria, and we don’t know what were his real intentions when he sourced back magic to Tyria. Maybe he saw the danger the elder dragons posed and he wanted to challenge them, but the other Five were afraid of “losing their divinity” in the eyes of their worshippers if it turned out they were not, in fact, almighty deities? What if, after his body was destroyed in his realm of inasnity, his spirit somehow survived, but imprisoned (guess where)?

A lot of questions can be asked, and we can theorycraft all day, but I am going to agree with the OP and suggest that “Lazarus” could be Abaddon. Or, my second guess, a certain someone who had enough time on their plate to study ancient Orrian magic (the same kind Vizier Khilbron studied), and learn how to absorb an entire bloodstone explosion.

Sidenote #1: Kormir absorbed the magic of Abaddon from his destroyed body. We do not, in fact know, if she absorbed Abaddon in his entirety.
Sidenote #2: Abaddon literally lacked a personality in GW: Nightfall. When we faced him, he had no voice, no personality. It would be a cop out, yeah, but Anet could actually say his soul wasn’t there.
Sidenote #3: The Forgotten are already gone for good.

After morde die, magic move torward bloodstonefen.

For long wm worked there and had help of inquest(seer knowledge(zinn’ and his desection of seer remains and infusion help in war of kryta).

They broke outer sheld of bloodstone. They observed increase in size of bloodstone inside, like a baloon with huge inscreases after zhaitan and morde deaths.

In ep4 human personal story was showed.
There are 4 other race’ personal story.

Player character from 5races, 5 player character, but player is one, so 5ascpects.

Lazarus splited into 5 ascepts.

Player using agony (at door steps).

How player will go into past, and meet Zinn and wm Neevda to twist Lazarus with self and back in that form to original timeline.

Death/Lose vs Dopelganger/Undead

Being in first person to all troubles in tyria – death – not normal – with anomalies.

When fighting with dopelganger with win you remain, what lose mean? you no longer have place in that timeline? Its agonize your existence.

Undead = constan at door steps = agony constant access. With help of Marjory, Livia, Eye of Janthir, Joko, Magdear, Scepter of Orr, Scepter of Elona.

Explosion being absorber – maybe – but it not necessary is laza/his impostor, it can be device or entity in other place/timeline – Ark or future Aurene or other future something/someone.

ArenaNet’s writers have gone on the record as saying that they considered a ‘redemption arc’ for Abaddon back when they did Nightfall, but decided to kill him off instead. We have Word of God that Abaddon is dead, dead, dead, never to return.

It’s not impossible that they’ve changed their minds since, but I consider that highly unlikely.

If there is a connection with Abaddon, it would most likely be through Razah. One of the big mysteries with Razah is that nobody, seemingly not even Razah himself, knew what Razah’s purpose was supposed to be: if there was some sane part of Abaddon that was looking to fight the dragons, Razah might be the result (or even it).

Regarding your sidenote #3: We don’t know that. We know that there is the speech of the Last Forgotten recorded in Tarir, and the Forgotten in question talks about fading from history… however, it’s not the first time the Forgotten have faded from history (it’s how they got the title, after all). The Last Forgotten could be the last one alive, the last one on Tyria, or simply the last one to interact with the Exalted.

It is far more likely that there are more Forgotten out there than that Abaddon is going to be recycled.

Cristalyan.5728:

It was a topic several days ago with trying to figure who “Lazarus” is in fact, and I quoted from it:

Konig Des Todes.2086

The ritual which destroyed the bloodstone is an entirely SEPARATE event from the ritual to revive Lazarus!

This is my opinion too. And only one experiment succeeded. From Xera’s reaction: “He is almost complete. Even if I die, He will live.”, we can understand that Lazarus was not resurrected. And even if he is alive, he was too weak to absorb such an amount of magic released by the explosion.

As I was quoted, I’d like to stress that even though the rituals were separate events that doesn’t mean that Lazarus wasn’t revived, nor would it mean Lazarus was too weak to absorb the bloodstone’s magic.

So, only the entity emerged after the explosion remains. Who it is? Let’s see the facts:
1. In the first second of life he absorbed an enormous quantity of magic. He was this strong from the very beginning.
2. He states than Kryta is not interesting him and he has other higher plans. HM? Lazarus swore that Kryta will feel his revenge even after hundred of years. And now he claim he is not interested? Not very Lazarish :-)).
3. The mursats were powerful creatures, but even a full healthy Mursat is not able (in my opinion) to absorb the energy released by an exploding Bloodstone. Lazarus included.

Cristalyan.5728:

-snip reasons why not Lazarus-

In my humble opinion this can be only Abaddon.

-snip reasons for Abaddon-

On top of what Drax said, I’d like to add that it was Jeff Grubb who stated that Abaddon is dead and never to return, but it was also Jeff Grubb who wanted Abaddon to be redeemed instead of killed. Which means even retcon is unlikely, since Jeff was – by all knowledge – the party that wanted Abaddon to remain.

As to your points about Abadodn more directly, in order:

• Abaddon, if he could survive, would be just as weak if not weaker than Lazarus – so saying it cannot be Lazarus because he was too weak would mean Abaddon was too weak too.
• Being uninterested in Kryta is actually reason why it wouldn’t be Abaddon. Abaddon’s goals during the Exodus were, best to our knowledge, to rule Tyria – this means he’d rule over Kryta.
• While we do not know the limitations of beings absorbing magic, given that Kormir – a mere human – could absorb a gods’ essence, that would hardly prevent a mursaat from doing similar with bloodstones. Further, Kormir is pretty strong reason to believe Abaddon cannot come back, as his very being was absorbed by Kormir – for Abaddon to return, Kormir must be possessed (thus Abaddon returns in Kormir’s body) or fall from godhood.
• The Bloodstone did not have Abaddon’s magic. It was magic from Tyria from before the last Dragonrise (empowered by the magic stolen from Zhaitan, and further by magic released with Zhaitain’s and Mordremoth’s deaths).
• Forgotten are already gone from Tyria.
• I would not label Marjory as a follower of Abaddon; Abaddon’s method of deceiving people into following him was by tricking them into falling from grace and offering them a form of salvation (such as Shiro Tagachi’s story). Marjory has not gone this route.

I want to stress the bit about Kormir. At the end of Nightfall, Kormir states this about herself and Abaddon:

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, it seems logic (at last for me) that absorbing the magic released by the Bloodstone explosion is not something a mortal can do. Even if that mortal is a Mursat. So only an entity having even greater powers than the Mursats remain. A god.

If a mortal can absorb the divine magic of a god, why couldn’t a mortal absorb the material magic of a bloodstone?

Cristalyan.5728:

Although Menzies is a good candidate, the way the “resurrected Lazarus” appeared is not a Menzies like way of acting. He is the brother of Balthazar, and he is more involved in the war / chaos / destruction aspects. He had no involvement in the act of sealing the magic in the Bloodstones. Why to choose a resurrection way involving forces you cannot master?

To be honest, we do not know “Menzies’ way of acting”. We never saw him. Menzies might be Balthazar’s brother, but Menzies was more about dishonorable combat – treachery, tricks, and indiscriminate destruction, which rather fits the deceptive Lazarus.

Cristalyan.5728:

A lot of details in the resurrection story points to an entity having deep knowledge about Secrets. And able to deceive everyone in order to make them to follow his plans. A very good Abaddon description.

Not really seeing that “deep knowlege about Secrets” nor do I see this as being very Abaddon-esque machinations, which are about having layers of plans on top of layers of plans, leading one failure to lead into a victory. Xanatos gambits, in other words.

And that’s not what “Lazarus” is doing.

Adamixos.6785:

Maybe he saw the danger the elder dragons posed and he wanted to challenge them, but the other Five were afraid of “losing their divinity” in the eyes of their worshippers if it turned out they were not, in fact, almighty deities?

But it is Abaddon who had done things which could have led to the Elder Dragons waking early (higher magic in the world).

Furthermore, evidence points to divine magic being immune to dragon corruption and consumption, so the Six Gods would have no reason to fear except for the possibility of getting beaten down with pure strength…. which is exactly what happened when they fought Abaddon. So… To prevent a situation they feared happening they made that situation a reality?

Doesn’t make much sense there. o.o

Adamixos.6785:

What if, after his body was destroyed in his realm of inasnity, his spirit somehow survived, but imprisoned (guess where)?

His spirit would have survived… inside of and merged with Kormir.

But I guess that’s to say his soul didn’t survive in canon lore. In the same sense, neither did Kormir’s.

Adamixos.6785:

Sidenote #1: Kormir absorbed the magic of Abaddon from his destroyed body. We do not, in fact know, if she absorbed Abaddon in his entirety.
Sidenote #2: Abaddon literally lacked a personality in GW: Nightfall. When we faced him, he had no voice, no personality. It would be a cop out, yeah, but Anet could actually say his soul wasn’t there.
Sidenote #3: The Forgotten are already gone for good.

On 1. We do, after all “his power, his knowledge, and his will” are all within Kormir now. His will being the key part.

If Abaddon could survive independently, then he would be a kittened (no knowledge) slave (no free will).

On 2. Abaddon’s personality was presented similarly to the Elder Dragons – through the background lore rather than upfront and personal. He did have personality, but it was kept awesome by him not opening his mouth (unlike the cool, silent video game characters who are put into shows and movies – Legend of Zelda show and Mortal Kombat movies anyone?).

However, on the cop-out part: Canon lore is that his soul was there and his body wasn’t – until Nightfall, where he began rebuilding his body from the Realm of Torment’s landscape itself (this is why he’s just a head and two arms which look nightmarish – he was literally turning the landscape into a new body).

On 3. Technically, it’s just the Forgotten in the world of Tyria that are gone. The Forgotten we saw in the Realm of Torment could still be there – or moved on to other areas of the Mists.

Though there is chance that some Forgotten remain in the world, just not in the known world.

Konig Des Todes.2086

1. Abaddon, if he could survive, would be just as weak if not weaker than Lazarus – so saying it cannot be Lazarus because he was too weak would mean Abaddon was too weak too.
2. Being uninterested in Kryta is actually reason why it wouldn’t be Abaddon. Abaddon’s goals during the Exodus were, best to our knowledge, to rule Tyria – this means he’d rule over Kryta.
3. While we do not know the limitations of beings absorbing magic, given that Kormir – a mere human – could absorb a gods’ essence, that would hardly prevent a mursaat from doing similar with bloodstones. Further, Kormir is pretty strong reason to believe Abaddon cannot come back, as his very being was absorbed by Kormir – for Abaddon to return, Kormir must be possessed (thus Abaddon returns in Kormir’s body) or fall from godhood.
4.The Bloodstone did not have Abaddon’s magic. It was magic from Tyria from before the last Dragonrise (empowered by the magic stolen from Zhaitan, and further by magic released with Zhaitain’s and Mordremoth’s deaths).
5. I would not label Marjory as a follower of Abaddon; Abaddon’s method of deceiving people into following him was by tricking them into falling from grace and offering them a form of salvation (such as Shiro Tagachi’s story). Marjory has not gone this route.

Well, for me, a God is an entity existing for all the time without a point of starting (born / created / invested). If a God has a starting point (he was born / created / invested) that means he will inevitably have an ending point. And this contradicts the idea of God. A God is not mortal. So, to be a real God one of the requirements is to be eternal (no starting point / no ending).

And now, let’s see:
1. Abaddon is surely alive. He was not killed (in fact nobody can kill a God – he is eternal). He was sealed. I think this was the meaning of the word “absorbed” – Kormir acts as a prison or as a guardian. Too weak :-)) In the history they say that the energy released by the body of the defeated Abaddon was enough to destroy the world. And Kormir absorbed it to avoid the destruction. Weak or strong are meaningless words when describing a God. We simply can not measure how powerful a God can be.

2. Being uninterested in Kryta can be a proof that the resurrected “Lazarus” may be in fact Abaddon. Do you suggest that a God known in the entire world with countless worshipers may be in fact interested to be the ruler of a small country? And from what I know, Abaddon was already sealed in the Realm of Torment when the Exodus took place. It seems more plausible for Abadon to plan his escape from that Realm rather than to rule Kryta.

3. Kormir absorbed Abaddon’s magic – here I have serious questions. Let’s see what the history says:
" After venturing into Realm of Torment, and defeating the fallen god’s generals Vizier Khilbron and Shiro Tagachi, the Sunspears turned to the gods for aid in defeating Abaddon. The representatives of the gods only gave Kormir a gift, the nature of which was unclear. After his defeat, Abaddon’s power threatened to run out of control and bring about Nightfall regardless, which is when Kormir realised the purpose of the gift. She absorbed Abaddon’s power, becoming a goddess."

In my opinion, we can have two possible situations here:
– Kormir used the gift as a recipient to seal Abaddon’s power. And not Kormir, but the gift absorbed the magic. That means something godly in nature absorbed it. Not a merely mortal. In this case Kormir is not a Goddess, she is in fact a Guardian.
- Kormir used the gift to turn herself in a goddess. That means a Goddess absorbed the magic and not a merely mortal. I’m not too favorable for this idea because in these circumstances, Kormir does not meet the definition of a God. She has a beginning. She will have an end. She is not eternal. So, even if she absorbed Abaddon using the gift, she is not a true Godess. She is the prison where Abaddon is kept. The only godly aspect is the gift received from the Gods.

4. The Bloodstone did not have Abaddon’s magic – I have doubts.
From what I know, Abbadon granted magic to the mortals in Tyria. And magic existed in a world created by the Gods. That means, at least parts of that magic was his magic. Because I think it is absurd to consider that in a world created by the Gods exists something independent of the Creation act – with other words the magic was not created by the Gods but existed independent of them. That can turn the Magic in a God too.

6. And finaly – Marjory. :-)) She is extremely vulnerable to Abaddon’s trickery: She followed “Lazarus” in an attempt to find a way to resurrect her sister. Abaddon (most probably) is aware of this. He can say that he knows a way to help Marjory (and in fact he may know – he is the God of Deep Knowledge and Secrets). It will be very difficult for Marjory to resist such manipulation.

The problem with this, Cristalyan, is that you’re assigning an Earth meaning to a Tyrian creature. The humans may worship the Six like gods, but they aren’t necessarily gods in the sense that we know them to be. In fact, we’ve never seen the gods themselves; no human has in over a thousand years. We’ve seen their emissaries when we prayed at their statues in GW1, and we’ve seen their avatars through the dervish transformations, but neither of those are necessarily the gods themselves.

Another assumption you have is that gods must be eternal, always existing and never ending. That might be the case for monotheism, but most polytheist cultures (and humans are clearly that) don’t have that same belief. You needn’t look farther than classical mythology to find gods being born all the time. Only Gaia, the Earth, and Ouranos, the sky, were creatures that were always there, and Ouanos was defeated by his children. Then there’s the case of Maia, one of the titans. There was a prophecy that she would birth two children of Zeus: a daughter, then a son that would defeat him as he defeated his father. To stop that, Zeus swallowed Maia whole and this is how Athena was born. Homer also mentioned that the gods could be wounded; if a creature can bleed, it can usually be killed.

Abaddon was pretty soundly defeated during Nightfall. There was no indication he split himself into facets like Lazarus did, and his godly essence was absorbed by Kormir. There’s really nothing left for him to resurrect into the body.

Regarding the bloodstones, Abaddon did not create the magic but instead unsealed it from the stones and gave it to the mortals. He might have guided humans in how to use magic, but it was there all along, kind of like how metals like iron and uranium were underground long before we knew how to use them.

Finally, I think you give Marjory too little credit here. Yes, she was fascinated by Lazarus, and I can’t blame her. If he really is back from a centuries-long nap, that’s an aspect of necromancy that any practitioner of the art would be interested in. If he’s really an imposter, her detective skills might have been itching and she wanted to seem like she fell for it to figure out what he’s really up to. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if she had figured it out long before we show up to rescue her, and I’ll be disappointed if she hadn’t. Belinda hasn’t been mentioned since she entered the sword, and I’m pretty sure Marjory has accepted that her sister is dead. After all, no one has really come back from the Mists that entered it through death.

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, for me, a God is an entity existing for all the time without a point of starting (born / created / invested). If a God has a starting point (he was born / created / invested) that means he will inevitably have an ending point. And this contradicts the idea of God. A God is not mortal. So, to be a real God one of the requirements is to be eternal (no starting point / no ending).

Don’t got time to respond to full post but on this I want to say this:

You are taking the concept of a monotheistic god and utilizing it for a polytheistic setting. In almost every (if not every) polytheistic mythology, every single god has a birth, ages, and dies. Immortality is not divinity, except in the case of Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

We know outright that how you define a “god” is not how the game defines them. Grenth, Kormir, and yes even Abaddon all have defined beginnings. Grenth was born half-god from Dwayna; Abaddon is outright stated to have had a predecessor just as Kormir and Grenth did. To quote:

You may have wondered why I was being chased so vehemently by Abaddon’s hunters, and I believe it is as simple as this: I do not believe Abaddon to be an eternal god. There were other gods before him, before he was imprisoned here. And I believe that while the power he uses cannot be destroyed, he may be supplanted, as he supplanted his predecessor.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Apostate

So the very canon lore we have means that Abaddon is not a god by your definition – but he is very much a god in the setting of Guild Wars. But rather, they fall under similar categories of godhood as your typical polytheistic gods, which took gods to be either a mantle of power (akin to kingship but with literal universal-altering abilities added on) or as a race (with capabilities beyond mortal abilities). In Guild Wars’ case, it’s more of the former.

Will respond to your other points later.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If a mortal can absorb the divine magic of a god, why couldn’t a mortal absorb the material magic of a bloodstone?

To play divine advocate, there’s a strong inference that Kormir had a divine gift that allowed her to do that, while we see the typical effect of too much bloodstone magic in humans and other modern races. That said, it’s possible that with the right resources, a mortal could pull it off.

Annnd… ugh. If I had a gold for each time someone has tried to apply a monotheistic definition of godhood to a polytheistic setting…

Now that I have time for the full post…

1. He is outright stated to be dead by ArenaNet. You cannot get greater confirmation that Abaddon is dead than that. Therefore, Abaddon is surely dead (until ArenaNet decides to change what they said out of the game). As per “nobody can kill a God” – see my previous post. You’re stuck on the monotheistic concept of God (you even capitalized it), rather than the polytheistic concept of gods. We’ve seen/heard of gods die in GW’s setting more than once. Kormir never said that Abaddon was “absorbed” – you literally pulled that out of someone’s kitten (or rather, either you pulled it out of your own, or someone pulled it out of theirs and handed it to you). Gods can be measured in strength – after all, Abaddon is stated to have been capable of defeating two gods in a one-on-two fight, but incapable of beating all five. This means there is a limit to the strength of each god, ergo it is measurable.

2. Abaddon wanted to rule the world. This means that, in turn, he wanted to rule every nation within the world. So he would, indeed, be interested in “a small country” (also, I’d note that nothing says the Six – let alone Abaddon – was known in the whole world, and his worshipers are most definitely limited). Further, he’d have to start somewhere – Kryta, the last human nation of continental Tyria, would be a fine place to start. He was indeed sealed, and his escape attempt was Nightfall; if Lazarus were to be Abaddon, then he had escaped so I don’t see what that has to do with his interest in Kryta.

3. You quoted the GW1 PC’s journal, rather than going after the actual mission that we witness. If you “look at the actual mission”: you’ll see that Kormir very much changed. It isn’t that “she became a guardian” nor so much that “she became a god” but rather it is a case of “she merged with a god”. Two became one. And again, your “definition of a God” is monotheistic, not polytheistic.

4. You may have doubts, but it is 100% canon lore that the original Bloodstone was created thousands of years before the Six even stepped foot on Tyria (world); it’s also 100% canon that all Abaddon did to it was release magic. None of his magic was put in – instead, the other gods took some of Zhaitan’s magic into the Bloodstones. You are also taking GW1 lore that’s been proven false – that the Six Gods created Tyria – as if it were still true. Tyria existed thousands of years before the Six Gods ever knew about it let alone walked upon it.

5 (you had 6 but no 5?). You’re mixing speculation as fact, first off. We don’t know why Marjory followed “Lazarus” beyond the fact she felt a strong tie of necromancy in him. As a necromancer, it’s only natural she’d be interested in powerful necromancy. There is absolutely nothing that truly hints to Marjory wanting to resurrect her sister. I also think you give Marjory too little credit – she’s a detective and a long hater of conspiracies. If Lazarus truly is fake like Caudecus believed (note: we have enough knowledge to believe Caudecus was lied to and therefore wrong about the inability to revive), then “Lazarus” would be full out a conspiracy, something Marjory hates. And she’d be smart enough to figure it out in time.

Rather than Marjory following Lazarus, if he is a fake I think it is more likely that we’ll find that she has been imprisoned (they wouldn’t kill a major character off-screen) and replaced with a fake herself.

Rognik.2579:

The problem with this, Cristalyan, is that you’re assigning an Earth meaning to a Tyrian creature. The humans may worship the Six like gods, but they aren’t necessarily gods in the sense that we know them to be.

They actually do match “an Earth meaning” of god… specifically a polytheistic god.

Why is it that people always assume the monotheistic god is the only type of god for there to be? Even in modern societies, there are even major religions that are polytheistic still being practiced (mostly eastern religions, such as Hinduism and Shinto). And that’s not to mention non-major religions out there.

In fact most religions in all of history have been polytheistic – there may have been a few others, but in large the three Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) and their many divisions are the only monotheistic faiths in the world.

Is it possible Justiciar Bauer is “Lazarus”?

Yes, it is possible and that’s my current theory. As explained here (and following posts).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Canon lore is that his soul was there and his body wasn’t – until Nightfall, where he began rebuilding his body from the Realm of Torment’s landscape itself (this is why he’s just a head and two arms which look nightmarish – he was literally turning the landscape into a new body).

Are you sure about that? Canon lore is also that the chains that hold his hands were forged by Balthasar himself. If he didn’t have hands from the very beginning, who put these chains later on? Balthasar came down just to check in? I find that unlikely

Considering the chains are magical, not physical- they fade out throughout the fight and we have to reforge them by killing monoliths- I don’t see any reason they couldn’t have been binding Abaddon’s essence. No body required.

Any charr will tell you that “gods” can be killed.

Tanith.5264:

Any charr will tell you that “gods” can be killed.

in the defense of the gods, the charr have never faced a true one. Their belief that all gods can be killed most likely stems from the fact that all gods they killed were powerful beings or impersonators pretending to be gods. Remember they had a cult worshipping the titans, so thats about how little power a creature needs for the charr to think they’re gods

My thoughts on this:

- Kormir was blessed by the the 5/6 gods before she went on to absorb a godly essence so, if Lazarus is weak and Abaddon is weaker (as Konig said) then they may not be able pull off the same feat that Kormir did.

About who Lazzy really is:

- I think it’s Modremoth. He’s able to implant his mind into things, if the timelines line up, he died during the ritual, he knew about the baby dragon from the very beginning. When the baby was attacked by green/molten dragon minions, he appeared. Knowing that we are the ones that finished him off, he intends to use us to take down the other Dragons so he can get more powerful and then turn his attention to us.

- Or it’s Glint. Because again, the Mursaat knew where the baby Dragon was, it knows the commander, and it has bigger plans than taking over Kryta.

- Or finally, it’s the Colossus from the fractal. As soon as we set him free he was transported into Lazzy’s body. 10/10 for story telling Anet!

I don’t see it being Glint (who was both female and not humanoid at all, unlike Lazarus). Why would she hide her identity from the PC? Lazarus came by himself, so if the figure isn’t really Lazarus, he’d have reason to hide his identity from the PC.

It being Mordremoth is an interesting idea, truth be told, and fully plausible since we know he planted a seed in Trahearne’s mind – he could easily have done such to another minion. The main problem is appearance, but if he knows some mesmer illusion-making, that’d be solved. On an side: Mordremoth died about a year before the attack on Stronghold of the Faithful.

I don’t think it makes sense for Lazarus to be Mordremoth. Why would he protect the egg? To possess her? I don’t think so. I think his mind-planting abilities only reached to plant creatures, as you never saw him possess mammals. That would also mean he wouldn’t be able to do anything to Aurene. And so if he wants her dead, he could just leave the destroyers to do so.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t see it being Glint (who was both female and not humanoid at all, unlike Lazarus). Why would she hide her identity from the PC? Lazarus came by himself, so if the figure isn’t really Lazarus, he’d have reason to hide his identity from the PC.

It being Mordremoth is an interesting idea, truth be told, and fully plausible since we know he planted a seed in Trahearne’s mind – he could easily have done such to another minion. The main problem is appearance, but if he knows some mesmer illusion-making, that’d be solved. On an side: Mordremoth died about a year before the attack on Stronghold of the Faithful.

Well if your spirit is reborn in a new body, your voice isn’t going to stay the same, is it? And as Glint is a seer, it’s quite possible that she would hide her identity for #Reasons.

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Dirame.8521:

My thoughts on this:

- Kormir was blessed by the the 5/6 gods before she went on to absorb a godly essence so, if Lazarus is weak and Abaddon is weaker (as Konig said) then they may not be able pull off the same feat that Kormir did.

About who Lazzy really is:

- I think it’s Modremoth. He’s able to implant his mind into things, if the timelines line up, he died during the ritual, he knew about the baby dragon from the very beginning. When the baby was attacked by green/molten dragon minions, he appeared. Knowing that we are the ones that finished him off, he intends to use us to take down the other Dragons so he can get more powerful and then turn his attention to us.

- Or it’s Glint. Because again, the Mursaat knew where the baby Dragon was, it knows the commander, and it has bigger plans than taking over Kryta.

- Or finally, it’s the Colossus from the fractal. As soon as we set him free he was transported into Lazzy’s body. 10/10 for story telling Anet!

On a serious note, I do get a similar vibe from the Cliffside fractal and the new raid wing. It almost looks like they could be from the same area of the world. With fractals being broken sort of reveries of past events and what not, it would be pretty awesome to find that same area in one of the future raid wings.

Dirame.8521:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t see it being Glint (who was both female and not humanoid at all, unlike Lazarus). Why would she hide her identity from the PC? Lazarus came by himself, so if the figure isn’t really Lazarus, he’d have reason to hide his identity from the PC.

It being Mordremoth is an interesting idea, truth be told, and fully plausible since we know he planted a seed in Trahearne’s mind – he could easily have done such to another minion. The main problem is appearance, but if he knows some mesmer illusion-making, that’d be solved. On an side: Mordremoth died about a year before the attack on Stronghold of the Faithful.

Well if your spirit is reborn in a new body, your voice isn’t going to stay the same, is it? And as Glint is a seer, it’s quite possible that she would hide her identity for #Reasons.

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Glint is a dragon.
A dead dragon.
On what basis do you make the claim that the spirit of Glint lives on?, even in this fantasy world nothing just continues existing as a ghost without a catalyst? And do you even know what a Seer is? it’s a race, not a class, Glint is not a Seer, Glint is a dragon. If she survived (which is like the opposite of a propability) she wouldn’t be hiding out as a mursaat. thats not her MO.
ergo, Glint is less than a possible option.

Does Glint look this? I need to update my glasses, it’s been 2 years, but I don’t think my eyesight is that off

You’re close, he’s actually Balthazar. And Jennah/Anise are Lyssa. And Kasmeer is Kormir..

Sirlath.1672:

You’re close, he’s actually Balthazar. And Jennah/Anise are Lyssa. And Kasmeer is Kormir..

Long ago, the nations lived in harmony, until the flame legion attacked. When the world needed him the most, the Khan’Ur disapeared. my brother and I found a young charr, called Rytlock, he’s still young with a lot to learn, but I believe he can save the world!

Amaimon.7823:

Glint is a dragon.
A dead dragon.
On what basis do you make the claim that the spirit of Glint lives on?, even in this fantasy world nothing just continues existing as a ghost without a catalyst? And do you even know what a Seer is? it’s a race, not a class, Glint is not a Seer, Glint is a dragon. If she survived (which is like the opposite of a propability) she wouldn’t be hiding out as a mursaat. thats not her MO.
ergo, Glint is less than a possible option.

In the entire franchise of Guild Wars, nothing is truly dead until the mists has erased them. Is it not Rytlock that ushered in a new profession which can channel the powers of long dead champions?

The Ghostly Hero is a dead Turai Ossa is he not? And yet he was in the Tyrian plain of existence to help us complete Ascension in GW1. The entire cascade of spirits that we’ve encountered in the entire game, quite a few of which you can see in the Raid, are they not sitting on this plane of existence rather than in the mists?

So there is plausibility for it to be Glint. That said though, on WP’s video, a commenter mentioned that it could be Glint’s scion, the baby dragon we defend in the challenge mission in GW1 and I think that suggestion is even more plausible than Glint.

Amaimon.7823:

Does Glint look this? I need to update my glasses, it’s been 2 years, but I don’t think my eyesight is that off

Glint is a seer with a small ‘s’ not a ’S’eer with a big ‘S’. She can perceive future events. What would you call a person who can predict the future? Are they not called seers? or prophets?

I really like the idea of Lazarus being Abaddon, mainly because this does seem like something Abaddon would do. Especially when Lazarus says “we have more virtuous pursuits to attend to”, Abaddon would very much like to keep magic a thing in Tyria. The Elder Dragons would like to consume Tyria and its magic. That would make the dragons an enemy to Abaddon and would give him the conviction to oppose them, and further more make an alliance with the Commander(since the Commander has had a hand in laying to dragons down).

As for Abaddon being dead… perhaps the artifact that was switched out as an aspect of Lazarus, was actually one of Abaddon’s artifacts. In the Personal Story, we have a mission where we are going into a lost temple of Abaddon to thwart Shaitan’s minions from getting Abaddon’s relics. What if a piece of Abaddon survive in one of them?

Finally, I think Abaddon is one of the most interesting and misunderstood characters in the GW universe. While he was the villain in Nightfall, was he really evil, or was he just driven into madness by his prison. His actions in Nightfall made it seem as if we were just trying to keep him from breaking out. I’m not saying Abaddon is a saint either, but then again, is anyone character in this game infallible?(Heck, in Nightfall, we made an alliance with Palawa Joko in order to hunt Abaddon, which restored him to power and allowed him to now rule Elona. So, we that played through Nightfall are the reason Elona is a place of undeath lol)

Amaimon.7823:

Dirame.8521:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t see it being Glint (who was both female and not humanoid at all, unlike Lazarus). Why would she hide her identity from the PC? Lazarus came by himself, so if the figure isn’t really Lazarus, he’d have reason to hide his identity from the PC.

It being Mordremoth is an interesting idea, truth be told, and fully plausible since we know he planted a seed in Trahearne’s mind – he could easily have done such to another minion. The main problem is appearance, but if he knows some mesmer illusion-making, that’d be solved. On an side: Mordremoth died about a year before the attack on Stronghold of the Faithful.

Well if your spirit is reborn in a new body, your voice isn’t going to stay the same, is it? And as Glint is a seer, it’s quite possible that she would hide her identity for #Reasons.

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Glint is a dragon.
A dead dragon.
On what basis do you make the claim that the spirit of Glint lives on?, even in this fantasy world nothing just continues existing as a ghost without a catalyst? And do you even know what a Seer is? it’s a race, not a class, Glint is not a Seer, Glint is a dragon. If she survived (which is like the opposite of a propability) she wouldn’t be hiding out as a mursaat. thats not her MO.
ergo, Glint is less than a possible option.

Does Glint look this? I need to update my glasses, it’s been 2 years, but I don’t think my eyesight is that off

Dunno where you get the whole “ghost needs a catalyst” as that’s kind of disproved by, well, every single ghost there is.

And you know what a Seer is, but do you know what a seer is?

here’s a hint

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Amaimon.7823:

Dirame.8521:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t see it being Glint (who was both female and not humanoid at all, unlike Lazarus). Why would she hide her identity from the PC? Lazarus came by himself, so if the figure isn’t really Lazarus, he’d have reason to hide his identity from the PC.

It being Mordremoth is an interesting idea, truth be told, and fully plausible since we know he planted a seed in Trahearne’s mind – he could easily have done such to another minion. The main problem is appearance, but if he knows some mesmer illusion-making, that’d be solved. On an side: Mordremoth died about a year before the attack on Stronghold of the Faithful.

Well if your spirit is reborn in a new body, your voice isn’t going to stay the same, is it? And as Glint is a seer, it’s quite possible that she would hide her identity for #Reasons.

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Glint is a dragon.
A dead dragon.
On what basis do you make the claim that the spirit of Glint lives on?, even in this fantasy world nothing just continues existing as a ghost without a catalyst? And do you even know what a Seer is? it’s a race, not a class, Glint is not a Seer, Glint is a dragon. If she survived (which is like the opposite of a propability) she wouldn’t be hiding out as a mursaat. thats not her MO.
ergo, Glint is less than a possible option.

Does Glint look this? I need to update my glasses, it’s been 2 years, but I don’t think my eyesight is that off

Dunno where you get the whole “ghost needs a catalyst” as that’s kind of disproved by, well, every single ghost there is.

And you know what a Seer is, but do you know what a seer is?

here’s a hint

All ghosts are:
- Foefire
- killed by bloodstone ritual
- having a destiny or duty of higher level, having something that bound them to stay (very few examples, but look at Turai Ossa)
I can’t think of, or remember any other source of ghosts

all of them had a catalyst, the didn’t become ghosts just because they didn’t want to die. And okay, yes, I concede the seer part, I thought the first to mention them was talking about the people who led the first elder races. Yes, she was a regular seer (to which I wonder if she knew it was her own end, then and there).

ClickToKill.8473:

I really like the idea of Lazarus being Abaddon, mainly because this does seem like something Abaddon would do. Especially when Lazarus says “we have more virtuous pursuits to attend to”, Abaddon would very much like to keep magic a thing in Tyria. The Elder Dragons would like to consume Tyria and its magic. That would make the dragons an enemy to Abaddon and would give him the conviction to oppose them, and further more make an alliance with the Commander(since the Commander has had a hand in laying to dragons down).

As for Abaddon being dead… perhaps the artifact that was switched out as an aspect of Lazarus, was actually one of Abaddon’s artifacts. In the Personal Story, we have a mission where we are going into a lost temple of Abaddon to thwart Shaitan’s minions from getting Abaddon’s relics. What if a piece of Abaddon survive in one of them?

Finally, I think Abaddon is one of the most interesting and misunderstood characters in the GW universe. While he was the villain in Nightfall, was he really evil, or was he just driven into madness by his prison. His actions in Nightfall made it seem as if we were just trying to keep him from breaking out. I’m not saying Abaddon is a saint either, but then again, is anyone character in this game infallible?(Heck, in Nightfall, we made an alliance with Palawa Joko in order to hunt Abaddon, which restored him to power and allowed him to now rule Elona. So, we that played through Nightfall are the reason Elona is a place of undeath lol)

There is some dispute about the condition of Abaddon, but it is generally agreed upon that he was “consumed”. He merged with Kormir to become a new god, in which Abaddon’s mind/consiousness was most likely 100% erased/taken over. In either event, the devs have made it 100% clear that to them, abaddon is deader than dead, and can and will not ever return.

Amaimon.7823:

All ghosts are:
- Foefire
- killed by bloodstone ritual
- having a destiny or duty of higher level, having something that bound them to stay (very few examples, but look at Turai Ossa)
I can’t think of, or remember any other source of ghosts

There are the ghosts around Hidden Lake in Brisban Wildlands, there are pirate ghosts in a mini-dungeon in Gendarren Fields and I think there’s another pirate ghost group in Sparkfly Fen. More recently, there’s a ghost around Ember Bay and there’s the bandit ghosts robbing the lumber camp or the ones near Noran’s Cabin in Lake Doric. I think these ghosts only had unfinished business as motive to stick around, rather than dramatic forces.

Amaimon.7823:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Amaimon.7823:

Dirame.8521:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t see it being Glint (who was both female and not humanoid at all, unlike Lazarus). Why would she hide her identity from the PC? Lazarus came by himself, so if the figure isn’t really Lazarus, he’d have reason to hide his identity from the PC.

It being Mordremoth is an interesting idea, truth be told, and fully plausible since we know he planted a seed in Trahearne’s mind – he could easily have done such to another minion. The main problem is appearance, but if he knows some mesmer illusion-making, that’d be solved. On an side: Mordremoth died about a year before the attack on Stronghold of the Faithful.

Well if your spirit is reborn in a new body, your voice isn’t going to stay the same, is it? And as Glint is a seer, it’s quite possible that she would hide her identity for #Reasons.

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Glint is a dragon.
A dead dragon.
On what basis do you make the claim that the spirit of Glint lives on?, even in this fantasy world nothing just continues existing as a ghost without a catalyst? And do you even know what a Seer is? it’s a race, not a class, Glint is not a Seer, Glint is a dragon. If she survived (which is like the opposite of a propability) she wouldn’t be hiding out as a mursaat. thats not her MO.
ergo, Glint is less than a possible option.

Does Glint look this? I need to update my glasses, it’s been 2 years, but I don’t think my eyesight is that off

Dunno where you get the whole “ghost needs a catalyst” as that’s kind of disproved by, well, every single ghost there is.

And you know what a Seer is, but do you know what a seer is?

here’s a hint

All ghosts are:
- Foefire
- killed by bloodstone ritual
- having a destiny or duty of higher level, having something that bound them to stay (very few examples, but look at Turai Ossa)
I can’t think of, or remember any other source of ghosts

all of them had a catalyst, the didn’t become ghosts just because they didn’t want to die. And okay, yes, I concede the seer part, I thought the first to mention them was talking about the people who led the first elder races. Yes, she was a regular seer (to which I wonder if she knew it was her own end, then and there).

There are ghosts around that just stay to watch their families or whatever, not all related to bloodstones or foefire. If that falls under ‘destiny or duty of a higher level’ then that just means just about anything can make you a ghost.

Rognik.2579:

Amaimon.7823:

All ghosts are:
- Foefire
- killed by bloodstone ritual
- having a destiny or duty of higher level, having something that bound them to stay (very few examples, but look at Turai Ossa)
I can’t think of, or remember any other source of ghosts

There are the ghosts around Hidden Lake in Brisban Wildlands, there are pirate ghosts in a mini-dungeon in Gendarren Fields and I think there’s another pirate ghost group in Sparkfly Fen. More recently, there’s a ghost around Ember Bay and there’s the bandit ghosts robbing the lumber camp or the ones near Noran’s Cabin in Lake Doric. I think these ghosts only had unfinished business as motive to stick around, rather than dramatic forces.

On top of that, there’s another pirate ghost group in Harathi, another ghost in Harathi who pops up just to chat about her friend who visits her tomb, another group of ghosts in Harathi who haunt Saul’s false tomb, dolyak ghosts in Harathi who terrorize bandits who disrupt their graveyard… and that’s one zone. Restless souls are everywhere in Tyria.

That said? Not a single one of those ghosts has displayed the ability to possess a new body. The very closest we’ve come are Bria’s shadow fiends, which are more properly nightmares, not ghosts- the relationship between nightmares and ghosts is unclear, but even if a ghost can become a nightmare there seems to be a fundamental difference between the two. If Glint was still around, absent some serious mesmer shenanigans, she’d be a spectral dragon speaking with an echoing version of the same voice she used in life.

Amaimon.7823:

All ghosts are:
- Foefire
- killed by bloodstone ritual
- having a destiny or duty of higher level, having something that bound them to stay (very few examples, but look at Turai Ossa)
I can’t think of, or remember any other source of ghosts

How about every other Crystal Desert ghost in GW1. Every Desolation ghost in GW1. Every Ascalonian ghost in GW1 (this being before Foefire).

The ghosts in Godlost Swamp in Queensdale. The ghosts at Fort Salma (during S2). The ghosts around Hidden Lake or Aurora’s Remains in Brisban Wildlands. Or the dolyak cave and pirate cave in Harathi Hinterlands. Or Fort Cadence in Sparkfly Fen. Or the small inlet of lost souls in Mount Maelstrom. Or Romke and his crew in Cursed Shore. Or Malchor in Malchor’s Leap.

I could go on and on. There are thousands of ghosts that are naturally occurring. No spell causing them to remain, nor them being sealed then let loose, or having a higher purpose.

In fact, the ghosts that you listed are the minority of the ghosts we see in GW lore.

Amaimon.7823:

all of them had a catalyst, the didn’t become ghosts just because they didn’t want to die.

Most ghosts we see become ghosts because they were killed in a way that they do not comprehend that they’ve yet died, thus have not moved on to the Mists. Or they’re tied by unfinished business (aka super-generic ghost-existence reasons).

As said, Foefire and Bloodstone ghosts are the minority when it comes to ghosts… even in GW2 (and not a single ghost in GW1 – of which there are very many indeed).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As said, Foefire and Bloodstone ghosts are the minority when it comes to ghosts… even in GW2 (and not a single ghost in GW1 – of which there are very many indeed).

I wouldn’t say minority… the Foefire in particular accounts for a huge chunk. Add that with the sudden flood from the bloodstone and I wouldn’t be surprised if the two together accounted for two-thirds of the ghosts we see in GW2.

That said, the principle point here is that ghosts can quite easily form without these disasters. It’s just that the sheer scope of them skews the data.

Konig, I’d love to here your thoughts on my earlier comment (as seen below)

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Also, the death of Modremoth poured more magic into the Bloodstone right? And was that around the time when the White Mantle managed to crack it to take pieces? of it or was that earlier? I’m uninformed about how the timelines line up.

But if my suspicions are correct then there is more plausibility that an aspect of Modremoth is in Mr Mursaat.

The closest thing we could theoretically get to Abaddon would be in the form of a “revenant legend”; in other words nothing more than just a resonance of his soul still lingering throughout the Mists, but nothing more than an echo.
In addition, we could still interact with him–and the other human gods–in the infamous “Abaddon fractal”.

It’s highly improbable, if not impossible, that the mursaat we interacted with is Abaddon in disguise; in fact, I doubt it even is someone in disguise.
The whole point of Lazarus not complying to his historical swearing is pretty clear: he has been reborn, he can now see the “bigger picture”; the races of Tyria are just “tiny cogs” in the totality of the All and plain vengeance would be shallow. Him abandoning the typical mursaat nomenclature, specifically the designation of “the Dire”, can be intended as a further indication of this.

How was Lazarus able to absorb the power of a bloodstone though? When thinking about that, it’s useful to consider that “the sacrifices at Salvation Pass were meant to heal him”; whatever the “healing process” implies, it’s possible he also grew stronger in the process–who knows how many souls were used? One thing seems sure however: Lazarus was influenced and changed by that, the “ritual of awakening” was a preparation for the final act, “the ritual of renewal”–the two are intertwined.

In relation to the bloodstones, we also know the mursaat knew how to handle those quite well, using them to manipulate souls to their advantage. Moreover, it’s interesting that when transported into the “demon’s realm” by the Eye of Janthir, during Deimos’s encounter, we can witness some kind of crystalline formations reminiscent of mursaat’s constructions (jade constructs and whatnot), which in return resemble bloodstones. In addition, during that same final encounter, we can witness crystals very similar in appearance to bloodstone fragments “flying out” of demonic tears–I really doubt the similarities are unintentional here, but I’m digressing.

Dirame.8521:

Konig, I’d love to here your thoughts on my earlier comment (as seen below)

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Also, the death of Modremoth poured more magic into the Bloodstone right? And was that around the time when the White Mantle managed to crack it to take pieces? of it or was that earlier? I’m uninformed about how the timelines line up.

But if my suspicions are correct then there is more plausibility that an aspect of Modremoth is in Mr Mursaat.

I think they were able to crack it before, but there was a pulse of energy associated with Mordremoth’s death which was partially responsible for Gorseval and entirely responsible for Slothasor.

draxynnic.3719:

Dirame.8521:

Konig, I’d love to here your thoughts on my earlier comment (as seen below)

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Also, the death of Modremoth poured more magic into the Bloodstone right? And was that around the time when the White Mantle managed to crack it to take pieces? of it or was that earlier? I’m uninformed about how the timelines line up.

But if my suspicions are correct then there is more plausibility that an aspect of Modremoth is in Mr Mursaat.

I think they were able to crack it before, but there was a pulse of energy associated with Mordremoth’s death which was partially responsible for Gorseval and entirely responsible for Slothasor.

This. The timeline is a bit… unclear… but between the raid and the journals, we can ascertain that:

*The Mantle drilled into the bloodstone and began harvesting shards before Zhaitan’s death. At this point bloodstone crystals also began to grow in the surrounding clearing. When Zhaitan died, ‘hundreds of new crystals’ popped up, the rate of the Stone’s growth increased, and it’s implied that the magic within grew more volatile.

*Mordremoth’s death seems to have unleashed something described as a ‘windstorm’. The blast shocked loose many of the spirits bound in the bloodstone, who seemed to largely drift east, where they formed Gorseval. It also spiked ambient magic levels, and accelerated the spread of the crack in the bloodstone, which coupled with increased mining by the Mantle’s slaves eventually led to leaks powerful enough to change the weather and cause bloodstone madness. Either the ambient magic, or the leaking bloodstone, or both, mutated Slothasor during this time.

*Wings 2 and 3- Salvation Pass and Stronghold of the Faithful- occur, seemingly in short order and just before Head of the Snake kicks off.

Dirame.8521:

Konig, I’d love to here your thoughts on my earlier comment (as seen below)

But before the attack on the Stronghold of the Faithful, Modremoth dieing kicked off something big for the White Mantle/Bandits in the area right?

Mordremoth’s death did affect the area (separated some spirits, resulting in Gorseval and the river of souls in Spirit Vale; also fed more magic in the area, resulting in Slothasor/slubling mutations), but it didn’t kick anything off for the White Mantle’s activities.

Dirame.8521:

Also, the death of Modremoth poured more magic into the Bloodstone right? And was that around the time when the White Mantle managed to crack it to take pieces? of it or was that earlier? I’m uninformed about how the timelines line up.

But if my suspicions are correct then there is more plausibility that an aspect of Modremoth is in Mr Mursaat.

Timeline of events can be found via the journals in Bloodstone Fen

• First entry, mentions the communications between Bauer and Caudecus which we see personally in Confessor’s End. Marked 75 Zephyr, 1325 AE (meaning Confessor Esthel – aka chapter 2 of personal story – happened shortly before then).
• First cracks in the bloodstone happened between 2 Scion, 1325 AE and 5 Scion, 1325 AE.
• Zhaitan’s death happened “a few days” before 60 Zephyr, 1326 AE.
• Discovering that “implanting” shards in people boosts them happened in 65 Scion, 1326 AE.
• Heart of Thorns began (Pact Fleet destruction) in 31 Zephyr, 1328 AE. Mention of * Mordremoth’s death (HoT end) recently happening is marked in 74 Zephyr, 83 Zephyr, and 70 Phoenix, 1328 AE, despite being nearly 100 days apart (I suspect the “Phoenix” mention was a typo and meant to be Zephyr).
• Matthias left for Salvation Pass in 72 Phoenix, 1328 AE. Oddly, 2 Phoenix, 1328 AE marks an entry mentioning Matthias having already left – probably a typo, forgetting the 7.
• Mention of a raid on Salvation Pass killing Matthias made on 13 Zephyr, 1329 AE.
• Mention of attack in Stronghold of the Faithful as well as preparations for ritual that exploded the Bloodstone made on 17 Zephyr, 1329 AE.

So the cracks began well before the personal story completed even.

Something I had forgotten about, which becomes a bit more relevant with the Lazarus discussion, is a line from Bauer written on 2 Zephyr, 1329 AE: “Our supreme leader arrived today.”

He can’t be talking about Caudecus, who arrived after the explosion which occurred on 17 Zephyr. So is he talking about Lazarus? Therefore confirming the ritual did work? Or is he talking about someone else, while still praising the Unseen Ones?