Guild Wars 2

So who do you all think is the strongest of all the elder dragons?
I think Primordius of course as the name implies and you do not send him to be the vanguard unless he is the strongest. Also it could mean he finished his job last time faster then his brothers or maybe his children again implying he is stronger.
Also his champion the great destroyer awoken quite often in history more then he should. All this make me think he is the stronger.
Who do you all think is the strongest?

I think there is very little to go on to answer the question. I hope either Primordus or the DSD. These Elder Dragons are out of sight (because they are either underground or underwater) which makes them potentially very dangerous and gives them a shroud of mistery which they can use to their advantage.

I actually don’t think there is a strongest ED per se. I know in the HoT story they say that Mordremoth is even stronger than Zhaitan, but I atleast I understood it as “stronger right now”. Unlike Mordemoth Zhaitan was actually weakend and starved in a very long, ressource heavy campaign. Which is implied to be the only reason, along side specifically designed weapons, that we could kill him at all.
Mordremoth wasn’t weakened, however since only awoke about a year prior, I also don’t think he was at full strength yet. Still stronger than Zhaitan, because Scarlet directly fed ley-line energy to him, but not as strong as say Primordus who has been doing his thing, dwarves aside, mostly undisturbed for about 200 years now. Imagine if he found a ley-line convergence down there (not too unlikely since they are underground). That way he could be much stronger than Zhaitan was pre-starving. But maybe he hasn’t found any ley-line magic too feed on, maybe all he got was the old asuran and dwarven cities.
In other words, I think the strength of an ED is solely dependent on how much magic he consumed, so anyone could be the strongest, but also anyone can be weakened if you know how.

Mordremoth was not stated to be the strongest, but rather the most dangerous. Meaning his activity was the most directly harmful to central Tyria. The other dragons haven’t recently been interacting much with Tyria. Kralkatorrik got pretty beat up trying to kill Glint… Bubbles and Primordus are MIA still, and Jormag likes snow. He’s building a snow fort for the best snowball fight of GW2 history. Jormag is looking to rival Grenth and Dwayna’s annual snowball fight!

Back the point, most dangerous and most powerful are not the same. The other dragons just don’t happen to be messing with us for the moment, so they’re hardly dangerous. All of the dragon’s are immensely powerful, and as time goes on, you can expect the last ones will be stronger and stronger as there will be more uncontested magic for them to devour. They’re only getting stronger.

Elder Dragons gain strength by how much magic they consume, per lore as I understand it. As we are told in Hidden Arcana, the longer a dragon is awake the more powerful it becomes.

That means that the ones who had access to the most magic for the longest time become the most threatening.

Typically, because of this, I’d argue Primordus – he was the first to awaken by all accounts, and is deep underground which means he’d probably be close to many ley lines. Furthermore, he has six Rata Sum-like citadel cities of the asura that were abandoned to munch the magic from. That’s a huge power boost.

However, I’m going to argue, instead, that the DSD is the strongest. For three reasons:

First, as we’ve recently been led to believe, the DSD apparently awoke around the time Primordus did – like Kralkatorrik, Primordus awoke on its own thus woke up late, which would place its awakening close to when the DSD awoke like how Kralkatorrik awoke close to when Mordremoth did. Either way, we know the DSD was second to awaken per The All cinematic in S2 and the trial of strength in HoT both following the same order which for the other five is the awakening order.

Secondly, the DSD pushed out the krait of their homeland. Not only that, it pushed out the karka. That means its forces are more powerful than either the krait and karka – powerful enough to make a civilization claimed to be as ferocious and threatening as the charr run with its tail between their non-existent legs. His forces even make the largos decide to train their apprentices on the shores of Tyria instead of in their homeland which its attacking currently.

Thirdly, on top of the two above, it had the Krait Obelisks to munch magic from. During S1, the Obelisk Shards are said to function a lot like the Bloodstone Shards – they’re storing powerful magic… and the DSD has access to hundreds of them unhindered for at least 50 years.

Finally, in the Infinite Coil Reactor, some Inquest are talking about how huge the captured minion for the Zone Blue is – that’s the DSD’s sector. A simple minion is huge. And with size, there’s also often pure massive strength just from the fact that they’re large and weigh a lot.

But ultimately, the strongest will be the last one standing because, quit simply, it means that it had the most time to consume magic that isn’t consumed by other Elder Dragons (and the fewer Elder Dragons, the fewer competition). As it stands, the torch likely goes to Primordus or the DSD, but if we kill them both and leave Kralkatorrik for last (which would go against the Pact MO which is ‘kill the most immediate threat first’) and give Kralkatorrik enough time to consume the magic of the world then Kralkatorrik’s strength will rival what Primordus or the DSD or any other had individually.

@adormtil: Primordus isn’t a ‘vanguard’ – the Great Destroyer was Primordus’ ‘vanguard’ if there ever was one, in the same light that Drakkar and Svanir were Jormag’s, Glint was supposed to be Kralkatorrik’s, and Scarlet was Mordremoth’s.

The Elder Dragons are not allied – they’re just not actively aggressive either.

Primordus was first to awaken, but not the vanguard for the other Elder Dragons.

As to the Great Destroyer “awoken quite often in history more then he should” – this is false. There’s only two points in history the Great Destroyer was known to be awake: during the previous dragonrise, and to start up the current one. The Great Destroyer – like Drakkar, Glint, and most likely others – is just a herald dragon champion; a champion intended to wake up early (or remain active, like Glint did) to give their Elder Dragon a ‘wake up meal’. Every dragon, as best we can tell, except Kralkatorrik had one – and Kralkatorrik lacked one only because Glint betrayed him.

@BuddhaKeks and Mushroomz: Zhaitan and Mordremoth were never ‘the strongest’ nor even ‘the most dangerous’ but rather they were ‘the most immediate threat’.

And this is because, unlike the other Elder Dragons, they had a head start. Zhaitan awoke in a kingdom full of corpses and magical artifacts to consume, while Mordremoth was given leyline breakfast in bed.

I’ve never said in my post that either Zhaitan or Mordremoth are the strongest. I just said that the HoT story informes us that Mordremoth is even stronger than Zhaitan. Which I interpreted as Mordremoth being stronger at that point compared to Zhaitan when the Pact attacked him above Arah.

Guys guys, it’s obvious that bubbles will be the strongest due to the terrible underwater combat

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I’ve never said in my post that either Zhaitan or Mordremoth are the strongest. I just said that the HoT story informes us that Mordremoth is even stronger than Zhaitan. Which I interpreted as Mordremoth being stronger at that point compared to Zhaitan when the Pact attacked him above Arah.

And what we said is that they don’t say Mordremoth is stronger than Zhaitan. They present him as being a more dangerous threat – as well as the most of the ED (at the time) – which is not the same as stronger.

They said Mordremoth is a bigger threat because it was able to spread so far so fast and could attack anywhere from underground…

Ignoring the fact that Primordus can do the same, and that even Zhaitan had attacks from underground (assault on Chantry of Secrets anyone?)…

The more I observes the story, the more I facepalm at these things.

Primordus seems to be quite well inactive does he still fights the dwarfs? Or maybe the killed him?

adormtil.1605:

Primordus seems to be quite well inactive does he still fights the dwarfs? Or maybe the killed him?

Or maybe the Stone Dwarf are still fighting it till this day….

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I’ve never said in my post that either Zhaitan or Mordremoth are the strongest. I just said that the HoT story informes us that Mordremoth is even stronger than Zhaitan. Which I interpreted as Mordremoth being stronger at that point compared to Zhaitan when the Pact attacked him above Arah.

And what we said is that they don’t say Mordremoth is stronger than Zhaitan. They present him as being a more dangerous threat – as well as the most of the ED (at the time) – which is not the same as stronger.

While I don’t recall the exact instance*, I’m 100% certain the word “stronger” not more “dangerous” was used to describe Mordremoth in comparison to Zhaitan. The one who said was actually the PC, while talking to one of Destiny’s Edge (Canach maybe, but I’m not sure). It was one those answers you give in the chat box or whatever that dialog thingy is called, so it wasn’t part of the voice acted dialog. However I’m not playing the english language version, so a translation error is within the realm of possibility.

*had to think about it a bit, but I think it was the dialog you can have with DE right before Hearts and Minds. It may have been Rytlock’s conversation that led to the PC saying that Mordremoth is even stronger than Zhaitan.

Each elder dragon is going to be stronger than the last because killing one releases its magic back into the world.
This has been hinted, (but not clearly shown) to have a major impact on the rest of them until now with the cinematic that glints egg was clearly affected. It also could be a logical lore explanation as to why dragon Champs all got buffed after a while.

So if a dragon dies, the rest get stronger. Whoever goes last is gonna give us a hell of a time.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

While I don’t recall the exact instance*, I’m 100% certain the word “stronger” not more “dangerous” was used to describe Mordremoth in comparison to Zhaitan. The one who said was actually the PC, while talking to one of Destiny’s Edge (Canach maybe, but I’m not sure). It was one those answers you give in the chat box or whatever that dialog thingy is called, so it wasn’t part of the voice acted dialog. However I’m not playing the english language version, so a translation error is within the realm of possibility.

*had to think about it a bit, but I think it was the dialog you can have with DE right before Hearts and Minds. It may have been Rytlock’s conversation that led to the PC saying that Mordremoth is even stronger than Zhaitan.

I’m referring to dialogue throughout Season 2, where the PC repeatedly calls Mordremoth just ‘the greatest threat’. Such as during Summit Invitations:

Braham: And then, our people will have two dragons attempting to destroy us all. We have to challenge the greatest threat first.
PC: Exactly. Right now, Mordremoth is wreaking the most damage upon Tyria.

That kind of conversation is repeated for every meeting with world leaders throughout The Dragon’s Reach parts 1 and 2.

I don’t recall any statement of Mordremoth being stronger than Zhaitan in HoT though…

The better question of who is the strongest Elder Dragon is: Which dragon given the same resources would be the strongest? As proven by earlier discussion Elder Dragon powers varies by access to food and length of activity.

Therefore we should look into the powers of each Elder Dragon and their weaknesses.

Bubbles not much information on it other than it drove Largos Krait and Karka to the surface. Karka being fairly strong species lends credit to Bubbles capacity to be powerful but hard to rank.

Kralky created the dragon brand but we should consider that all Elder Dragons seem to do great feats on their awakening. so we will discount this. Kalky beats glint in combat. Considering that GW1 heroes best Glint in combat that does not make him seem strong. Karlky’s minions do not seem to have overtly oppressive features that make them threatening over other dragon minions. The Dragon Brand is said to be expanding by npc. I consider this a plus to Karlky power level. If it is expanding then Karlky corruption is dangerous in that it grows expanding his area of influence indefinitely. Kralky seems to have vulnerable mind and vulnerability to his own body.

Primordius in theory has very threatening minions when compared to other dragons. They are a hive mind based army therefore highly effective in army based combat provided destroyer leading them is a good at commanding them. Destroyers are literally made of some kind of magical magma lava stuff. Lore wise that means attacking destroyer with weapons should make your weapons melt. Destroyers in GW1 were fairly oppressive to fight and tough to kill. In GW1 this is seemingly retconned. Destroyers forced almost the entire Asuran race to the surface. In theory Destroyers are dangerous foes. but with their downgrade in GW2 not so sure. Supposedly Dwarfs are still fighting destroyers underground. That is a hit on Primordious because of his lack of success in winning. Conclusion Destroyers are contenders for most dangerous minions, in theory.

Zhaitan’s power level is hard to peg. In theory he had access to very powerful people to turn into risen. Legendary pirate commanders, magically adept Orrian priests, etc. In the end we did not see this translate into military power tactically. Zhaitan did not win any key engagements against the pact and eventually got killed by a laser designed to kill him.

Mordremoth very hard to kill. We sort of kill him dues ex machina style near the end in the mind duel. If there was no access to the dream to defeat his mind. It is theorized he cannot be killed without wiping out every Mordrem creature capable of being its vessel. Mordremoth itself demonstrates a high degree of intelligence and sense of purpose compared to other Elder Dragons based on presentation. He himself destroyed entire pact air fleet along with the Sylvari he corrupted. Mordrem guard act intelligently with some semblance of military tactics. They are still not considered on par or miles close with us the pact commander in military strategy.His minions are semi dangerous. His corruption methods are not much more pervasive than other dragons given the resources available. Conclusion Mordremoth itself if anything neigh impossible to kill without access to the Dream. He seems more intelligent than his peers.

Jormag is interesting one his corruption method is fairly passive. The sanguinary blade though is anything but passive if it can be demonstrated that Jormag can corrupt in this process in a larger scale or his minions produce more blades. It would not bode well for Tyria. Jormag lost a tooth to a powered up Norn. since no comparative analysis for how powerful that Norn was compared to other things its hard to judge this event. Jormag’s primary minions are Norn. Lore wise a Norn warrior can defeat an entire Charr warband. So in this fact Jormag’s primary minions are fairly dangerous individually.

Based on these facts. I would Say most dangerous minions goes to either Jormag 2nd to Primordious. If more information comes out on Bubbles he might be up there. Mordremoth wins hands down on being hardest to kill as he is neigh impossible to kill. from Zhaitan and Mordremoth it has been demonstrated that it takes entire armies + technology to defeat an Elder Dragon itself. It is hard to judge which Elder Dragon is the most powerful in this sense but from what is seen in game Mordremoth’s avatar seemed the strongest of them all based on known dragon information. We should note though that Mordremoth is well fed in this instance.

Vlad.1739:

Primordius in theory has very threatening minions when compared to other dragons. They are a hive mind based army therefore highly effective in army based combat provided destroyer leading them is a good at commanding them.

All dragon minions are hive-mind based. Every single one.

Which is why the sylvari, whom are not, is an oddity amongst dragon minions.

Part of why everything about Mordremoth makes him an oddball to the other six.

Vlad.1739:

Destroyers in GW1 were fairly oppressive to fight and tough to kill. In GW1 this is seemingly retconned. Destroyers forced almost the entire Asuran race to the surface. In theory Destroyers are dangerous foes. but with their downgrade in GW2 not so sure. Supposedly Dwarfs are still fighting destroyers underground. That is a hit on Primordious because of his lack of success in winning. Conclusion Destroyers are contenders for most dangerous minions, in theory.

To be fair, everything that was tough in GW1 is now easy in GW2. Wurms were great massive and lumbering beasts that were fairly tough individually to a full party – the incubi would slaughter any ill-prepared party. In GW2, wurms are laughable and the incubi have been renamed as bats (same appearance, different names) and we all know how stupidly easy bats are.

Further, we only fight the very beginning breaches of destroyers on the surface – as we see with risen and mordrem, the further from the territory the minions go, the weaker they are – unless brought in army-size by a dragon champion.

And the dwarves underwent a ritual that made them specifically capable of fighting destroyers well. So knocking Primordus down for not being the dwarves (which is hinted he has in S2 by saying that Ogden is the last dwarf and not simply the last dwarf on the surface) is a bit unfair.

Vlad.1739:

Mordrem guard act intelligently with some semblance of military tactics.

So did the Orrian risen… something that a lot of players seem to forget – and ArenaNet clearly did themselves too. Mordrem Guard are said to be intelligent, but all we see of this so-called intelligence is patrols, fortifications, leadership, and taking corpses. The risen did all of these.

It wasn’t highlighted as being special. Because at the time, it wasn’t. Why the Mordrem Guard are so special for being ‘intelligent’ is beyond me. They’re no more talkative than our “Death, good!” friends in Orr.

i tink it depends on the surroundings.
Bubbles is probably stronger than Primordus in the sea, but s/he’d be very weak if s/he’d be in Primordus’ realm.
I hope in one of the future expansions we get to see a fight between two dragons.

Why would they fight now there is even more to eat and a lot to share. For example they barely overlap and that is because Primordius has a lot of underground territory but they stay out of each others way.