Guild Wars 2

What’s cool in GW2 is the dark undertone to lore and the dungeons – there’s some seriously twisted stuff there like that Inquest dudes Dragon research, and Baelfire turning himself into a god, and all of the Orr stuff and Jormah/Kralk stuff. The world is literally collapsing and going to the kitten around people.

However I think GW2 focuses too much on being funny and cutesie, which boxes of fun and celebrations and toymakers all of the time.

This world should be dark and dangerous – humanity lives in 2 cities, the Norn have been driven South, the Charr are struggling against the Dragonbrand and Flame Legion and the Sylvari are having a civil war. The world doesn’t reflect the actual lore we are told which is a big shame I think.

I disagree that GW2 has a dark undertone. It’s all pretty upbeat and light hearted. And many of the villains and evil groups in the game, are not all that cruel, and fall into bad-guy cliches a lot (including twirling their mustache). I don’t see a dark crumbling world at all. It all seems rather tame if you ask me.

GW1 was a lot darker. Human sacrifice, the realm of torment, the underworld, and war in Kryta.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I disagree that GW2 has a dark undertone. It’s all pretty upbeat and light hearted. And many of the villains and evil groups in the game, are not all that cruel, and fall into bad-guy cliches a lot (including twirling their mustache). I don’t see a dark crumbling world at all. It all seems rather tame if you ask me.

GW1 was a lot darker. Human sacrifice, the realm of torment, the underworld, and war in Kryta.

I mean the lore implies pretty dark things but doesn’t carry through with the actual storylines and gameplay.

And Super Adventure Box made things even worse with all this glowing stuff

The lore certainly does allow for a very dark undertone. It’s a shame that the writers apparently prefer creating dark atmosphere but with comedic story plots. It’s like taking a pinata and putting it in a Marco Polo game.

Yeah. It can work, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t look weird.

Exactly what turned me off in this update. The ONLY dialogue at the start, besides Opening Ceremony and idle talk of Braham and Rox in the pavilion, was the minstrel and the drone. Which was just a comedic touch. And then they got another one at Closing Ceremony. And another one at every step you take in Scarlet’s Funhouse.

It was good in Southsun Cove, it was funny and I liked it. Still like it, but when they try to picture chaos and destruction with them and the playful manner of Scarlet… it all seems like a big joke.

The Minstrel 2.0 (Mc-whatever will never be able to hold a candle to Maklain the Minstrel) and Job-hobo-tron remind me of Bulk and Skull from the original Power Rangers. A comedy side-story that gets directly involved in problems.

Problem is, Braham and Rox is also a comedy routine, as well as Motto, and lets not forget Faren.

Yes, there’s comedy all over the place. And not that good comedy. It will give you a small chuckle at best. I wish they’d ramp up the dark mood every now and then, make a threat really feel like a threat, and not like an episode of The Smurfs. You can have humor in there, but sparingly. There’s moments for comic relief, and there’s moments for drama and suspense. Don’t mix the two, or you might harm both.

It’s like having a juggling clown at a funeral. They should allow the drama to play out for a change, without disrupting it with silly humor all the time.

THIS.TOPIC.

Thank you OP. Tyria doesn’t take itself very seriously. ANet tries too hard to be funny, and it spectacularly fails to accomplish this.

Take for instance Zojja. Although I am a fan of Felicia Day, and at the beginning I thought she was a good casting choice, when playing asura I realized they had made a mistake. Felicia Day is too quirky, energetic. The ED threat is very real, very close, and mortal; yet Zojja is always making jabs (and puns) about this.

By comparison, and please bear with me for this, World of Warcraft has a very strong narrative. You see interesting motives for characters interactions: lust for power, pride, deceit, revenge… and there are factions and individuals pulling their own threads of one single conflict in very different directions, be it for personal gain or other goals. That makes the story and lore development much more interesting.

In Tyria, EVERYBODY is happy all around, getting together to fight dragons. There’s no conflict, no interests. In all seriousness, when I played the Personal Story that involved Trahearne cleaning Orr, it kept foreshadowing that the guy was creepy and knew Orr well (perhaps too well), insinuating that he may betray the Pact… but that is never delivered. Instead, he gets to be the hero, which is not that interesting. He’s not even a flawed hero, an individual who had shortcomings and we helped overcome them so he could be great. Nope. Just a do-gooder.

The only betrayal there was from ANet to us players. What happened to “This is your story”? I always feel like a spectator watching some heroes steel my thunder. LS has absolutely zero input from us. Ellen Kiel, Rox, Braham… there’s not a single instance that I can remember, from LS, that mentions our character as DOING something.

Yeah, you are spot on regarding Trahearne. During the Living Story we keep running into situations where an interesting plot “could” develop, yet never does. During the human story, there’s a part where you and Logan set a trap for the White Mantle (I’ve brought up this example many times). And things work out exactly according to plan. No one betrays anyone, the plan is executed flawlessly, and you duke it out with the Mantle. So many opportunities for a clever plot twist, yet so much wasted potential.

This reminds me of some of the final quests of the pact storyline, where it is suggested that there’s more going on then just the corruption of Zhaitan. I don’t remember the exact wording, or the quest. But I do distinctly remember that things finally got interesting and mysterious… only to end up not resolved, or not that mysterious at all. Maybe it was during the vision of the Pale Tree, when you talk to the Orrian king.

Yeah, I want to say you are prolly thinking about the dream vision of Orr. The reason I say that is because I thought it too. In my mind, it sounded like the king was saying Orr was corrupted by something other than the dragon. This to me meant that perhaps the Vizier’s magic was still corrupting the land, or something else darker and more evil that we do not know about. As it turns out the dragon just corrupted a pool of water that corrupted the rest of Orr, and it wasn’t him itself that was the source of the corruption, but the water. I was a little disappointed there.

Agreed absolutely with the OP.

Funny stuff is good sometimes, but it doesn’t end up being memorable, and doesn’t make for compelling plot. They need to be riskier, and take a page from GW1.

A lot of the humor harms the way a lot of the races are portrayed as well. I feel the strongest in this regard about the Norn, who have been reduced to drinking and boasting comic relief characters.

But back to Scarlet, the humor harms the process of establishing her as a convincing villain. To establish a good villain, you need to do only a few things: Have the villain succeed at a devious plan (beat the hero), have the villain do something cruel (kill of a beloved side character), demonstrate that the villain is a challenging opponent to the protagonist (that’s us…. I hope…. please let it be us this time around!).

A good example of how to establish villains the good way, or the bad way, are the Indiana Jones movies (I’m sure most of us have seen those). In Raiders of the Lost Ark, Toht is instantly established as a villain, because he is a menacing guy, and we see him as a menacing adversary to the hero. But then compare this to Kingdom of the Crystal skull (which was aweful), and we have a villain that is constantly plagued by silly side gags, and failing at being a villain. She doesn’t do anything cruel, and constantly is made fun of.

Scarlet suffers from this same problem. Amidst the chaos at the pavilion (which felt some what menacing) they take the time for funny banter for Hobo-tron, and then later Faren shows up in his underwear again (Some what funny how this is a running joke, but it harms the moment). Had she actually killed off Faren, you would have instantly had drama, and a villain that feels menacing.

Oh, there would have been an uproar on these forums if either Faren or Jennah had died. But did we really have to show that Faren was alive and well? And especially so soon after the attack? Why not keep us in suspense? Why not actually make her kill someone we care about?

Who? I don’t have a connection to Faren, I don’t have a connection to Jennah, I don’t have a connection to anyone in Destiny’s Edge. Why? Because they did not bridge us to them.

The only character that I felt a connection to was the Vigil norn, Warmaster Forgal.

I think someone said it best, above: “missed opportunities”. I remember in my human story, I had a sister who I rescued rather early on. Where is she now? Why can’t she be involved?

Rhaegar.1203:

Who? I don’t have a connection to Faren, I don’t have a connection to Jennah, I don’t have a connection to anyone in Destiny’s Edge. Why? Because they did not bridge us to them.

The only character that I felt a connection to was the Vigil norn, Warmaster Forgal.

I think someone said it best, above: “missed opportunities”. I remember in my human story, I had a sister who I rescued rather early on. Where is she now? Why can’t she be involved?

I agree that personal touch is lost.

At least for us humans, Jennah, Anise and Logan have been around since early levels in the story. I don’t know how the other races must feel!

I think there is a personal connection with Faren at least. With the noble human story line, he really feels like… that -one- friend who has always gotten by on having looks and/or money and has no common sense or real world skills whatsoever—but for some reason, you always have fun with him.

Honestly, I think that someone should have at least been -injured-. I partially feel as though there is an inference that Scarlet might have forcefully taken advantage of Faren (‘Scarlet likes to play with her toys, and she plays rough.’) but everything about the situation is such nonsense, its not like he’s going to have PTS or anything. It’d be cool if a character, I don’t know, lost an eye or a hand or something, and from now on had a hook hand or an eye patch or a SCAR, even in new personal story threads. Anything to show that it doesn’t wrap up neatly like a sitcom every two weeks.

I always feel that every good story, no matter if it’s a book, a film, a game or anything else, needs humor in it, no matter how dark it is. Just look at The Dark Knight, it’s incredibly dark and moody, but it still has some genuinely funny parts, like Lucius chewing out that Wayne Enterprises accountant who asked too many questions.
That gives a pretty good balance, since as the reader/viewer/player you don’t want to feel depressed all the time by what you are experiencing.

However Guild Wars 2 is as far away from this kind of writing, as they could possibly be. Anet doesn’t seem to take Tyria seriously anymore. And if they don’t do that, why should I as a player take Tyria seriously?
I really miss the writing from Nightfall, it was by far the best they ever had. Of course it wasn’t perfect, but it had a pretty good balance between dark (Kormir’s eyes getting eaten, the lost battle of Gandara, the ghost of Dunkoro’s son etc.) and humorous (Koss, Prince Bokka, Palwa Joko etc). They even managed to fiddle in a kitten love traingle. Not perfect, but still better than that cheesy Heart’s of the North drama… yuck!
I also really like the War in Kryta. It had everything it needed to have, drama, tension, humor and a pretty good conclusion. And they did this with the very small live-team, which didn’t have much resources!
Why then, does the living story fail in this regard? Well it didn’t always, I think Flame&Frost was quite good to be honest. It was too slow at the start and I don’t like Rox and Braham, but overall it gave us a rather dark story, dark enough to balance out the humor. Sadly they completly lost this balance right now. Not that I don’t appreciate good humor, I love it, but when I started my adventures in Tyria back in 2005 I fell in love with the rather dark atmosphere, not with some wacky villian-sue and an ensemble of comic reliefs.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yes, there’s comedy all over the place. And not that good comedy. It will give you a small chuckle at best. I wish they’d ramp up the dark mood every now and then, make a threat really feel like a threat, and not like an episode of The Smurfs. You can have humor in there, but sparingly. There’s moments for comic relief, and there’s moments for drama and suspense. Don’t mix the two, or you might harm both.

It’s like having a juggling clown at a funeral. They should allow the drama to play out for a change, without disrupting it with silly humor all the time.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I always feel that every good story, no matter if it’s a book, a film, a game or anything else, needs humor in it, no matter how dark it is. Just look at The Dark Knight, it’s incredibly dark and moody, but it still has some genuinely funny parts, like Lucius chewing out that Wayne Enterprises accountant who asked too many questions.
That gives a pretty good balance, since as the reader/viewer/player you don’t want to feel depressed all the time by what you are experiencing.

However Guild Wars 2 is as far away from this kind of writing, as they could possibly be. Anet doesn’t seem to take Tyria seriously anymore. And if they don’t do that, why should I as a player take Tyria seriously?
I really miss the writing from Nightfall, it was by far the best they ever had. Of course it wasn’t perfect, but it had a pretty good balance between dark (Kormir’s eyes getting eaten, the lost battle of Gandara, the ghost of Dunkoro’s son etc.) and humorous (Koss, Prince Bokka, Palwa Joko etc). They even managed to fiddle in a kitten love traingle. Not perfect, but still better than that cheesy Heart’s of the North drama… yuck!
I also really like the War in Kryta. It had everything it needed to have, drama, tension, humor and a pretty good conclusion. And they did this with the very small live-team, which didn’t have much resources!
Why then, does the living story fail in this regard? Well it didn’t always, I think Flame&Frost was quite good to be honest. It was too slow at the start and I don’t like Rox and Braham, but overall it gave us a rather dark story, dark enough to balance out the humor. Sadly they completly lost this balance right now. Not that I don’t appreciate good humor, I love it, but when I started my adventures in Tyria back in 2005 I fell in love with the rather dark atmosphere, not with some wacky villian-sue and an ensemble of comic reliefs.

I fully agree with you both. I don’t know if the tone should be darker. But it should be more serious.

Everything is sort of neutral. The Charr aren’t bad, the humans aren’t bad…they are just on opposite sides…I kind want to see more evil in the world and more good. rather than everything being grey

The world doesn’t feel very dangerous

There’s so much lore that is awesome. but doesn’t feel very implimented

Agreement from me as well. Good humor, used well, can improve most any story — sadly, but what we have is (for the most part) neither good nor used well. As much as I tend to roll my eyes when people act like a game can only be “mature” and interesting if everything grimmedarque and shades-of-gray, I do think GW2 could use some darker, more serious elements, definitely more “real” danger, and less shallow humor.

Very good point made also about how certain storytelling aspects are diminished because 1) there really aren’t any negative consequences and 2) even if someone does die, we have little to no opportunities to “bond” with any NPCs so it’s hard to care. That really must be changed. Don’t just throw random superpowered crap at us without it having any actual impact — even a stupidly ZOMGmegasuperduperimba “threat” like Scarlet has no real credibility that way. Don’t have a parade of shallow NPCs that we can barely remember the names of, give us the time and opportunity to really get to know and have meaningful, in-depth interactions with our allies and friends.

I do want to take this game, this setting and this story seriously. Please Anet, help me do it, and do it yourselves.

Ok, so how do we get this thread noticed by TPTB?

fnordette.4139:

I think there is a personal connection with Faren at least. With the noble human story line, he really feels like… that -one- friend who has always gotten by on having looks and/or money and has no common sense or real world skills whatsoever—but for some reason, you always have fun with him.

Honestly, I think that someone should have at least been -injured-. I partially feel as though there is an inference that Scarlet might have forcefully taken advantage of Faren (‘Scarlet likes to play with her toys, and she plays rough.’) but everything about the situation is such nonsense, its not like he’s going to have PTS or anything. It’d be cool if a character, I don’t know, lost an eye or a hand or something, and from now on had a hook hand or an eye patch or a SCAR, even in new personal story threads. Anything to show that it doesn’t wrap up neatly like a sitcom every two weeks.

Faren is a human noble storyline character?

Wow that’s news.

I mean, we get to know Jennah, Anise and Logan, if we’re lucky enough to be humans, but only the nobles get to know Farah.

They need to pick a strong cast of recurring characters that everyone can get attached to, like Destiny’s Edge + the major players for each faction/race + some background characters to add flavour and emotion.

I disagree. I am 100% for characters from the personal story returning to the scene, especially those who dropped off the face of Tyria after their arc was finished. It’d go a long way towards rectifying one of the biggest shortcomings of the personal story.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I disagree. I am 100% for characters from the personal story returning to the scene, especially those who dropped off the face of Tyria after their arc was finished. It’d go a long way towards rectifying one of the biggest shortcomings of the personal story.

I think this would be cool. If they’ve got characters already they might as well have them return instead of making up new ones.

The problem with killing off someone, like Faren, is that it would interfere with the personal story and would make no sense whatsoever to the new players. Also, if that character has a role in it that creates conflicts with the cohesion, it’d be a mess. Faren was well played during this arc and devs have said the will start to blurr the line between PS and LS. Hopefully we will see more.

PS was really a BIG mistake for this game, in all senses, in my opinion.

Missions from GW1, in my opinion, do not differ a lot from what PS in GW2 came to be. If we were to understand that PS instances are, very much like Missions in the original game, frozen in time, there would not be a conflict.

The problem is that ArenaNet seems to be treating their instances – not just the PS ones, but dungeon ones too – as happening “in the now” (to use their own wording that I saw once).

Which creates all kinds of time paradoxes.

What also bothers me, is that a lot of the personal story and the dungeons, hinges on characters from the book. And I do not care for the books. I think those two should remain entirely separate. I realize that the books are a great bit of merchandising, and they allow the writers to expand on the lore a bit in ways that would not be possible in the game. But the way the books and the game are intertwined, bothers me. It was as if the writers expected us to like Destiny’s Edge, because they expected that we had read the books.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It was as if the writers expected us to like Destiny’s Edge, because they expected that we had read the books.

Well said Queen. ANet writer’s need to learn a little hubris. They might have thought they wrote this epic story, but tons of us know better. Covering their ears and eyes to that fact won’t get them anywhere with the players.

The novels were fun to read, but TBH, they were what I expected from tie-in works: underdeveloped characters.

I liked Killeen better than anyone in Destiny’s Edge.

To be quite honest with you I don’t find this world dark at all, it can get a bit like that with ghosts but everything else seems light hearted. Yes I don’t really find anything in this world really that scarey.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What also bothers me, is that a lot of the personal story and the dungeons, hinges on characters from the book. And I do not care for the books. I think those two should remain entirely separate. I realize that the books are a great bit of merchandising, and they allow the writers to expand on the lore a bit in ways that would not be possible in the game. But the way the books and the game are intertwined, bothers me. It was as if the writers expected us to like Destiny’s Edge, because they expected that we had read the books.

I just finished reading Edge of Destiny. And let me tell you that it doesn’t provide any vital plot points that are not presented in game.
I like the story that is presented in the dungeons. It has the drama, the comedy and the seriousness. The last fight failed, but only due to its mechanics. The psychological frame to kill Zhaitan was right.

Rhaegar.1203:

I liked Killeen better than anyone in Destiny’s Edge.

Indeed

Thrudrheim.8143:

To be quite honest with you I don’t find this world dark at all, it can get a bit like that with ghosts but everything else seems light hearted. Yes I don’t really find anything in this world really that scarey.

The only think that seems a little scary is Mad King Thorn, but he’s a joke.
If next Halloween he comes and does something really bad, like killing Kiel, the queen, the imperator or causing major permanent damage to any city and of course, killing innocents, that’d be great.

Ludovicus.7980:

The psychological frame to kill Zhaitan was right.

No, to me it wasn’t. This is a creature that is reanimating corpses, tampering with “unnatural” things. How’s that different from a Necromancer from GW1, you ask? At least, when a Necro raised a minion, it did not retain the appearance of the creature that served as the “base material”. Remember in GoA how Dougal Keane is EXTREMELY disturbed at Killeen re-animating the corpse of an Ebonhawk female soldier?

Tyrians are not properly freaked out by this during the PS in Arah. Mind me, not only there are Orrians dragging their feet through the territory, but also every fallen Pact Soldier should also start crawling with un-life. These are people you’ve known, eaten with, shared an ale with, who have fought side by side against that same corruption that just claimed them. And I’m not mentioning the abominations, creatures made of limbs and entrails from other corpses.

If anything, human characters should start questioning their beliefs! A creature that can bypass Grenth’s rules about the dead? Maybe Grenth is not as powerful as I thought! Maybe I need to reevaluate my faith… right?

Rhaegar.1203:

I liked Killeen better than anyone in Destiny’s Edge.

Indeed[/quote]

The narrative in Edge of Destiny, around the middle of the book, felt a lot like a Megaman game; choose a boss, jump into their stage, kill, and get out. Next face in the selection screen. All of this, separated by impersonal letters with subtext from the Queen of Divinity’s Reach.

In saying that even though I have been with this game from near the very beginning there is still much more to this game. I have done two personal stories but I have completed part of a third one and to my suprise it got quite emotional for me. So yea GW2 can get darker and tug at your heart strings a bit.

Rhaegar.1203:

The narrative in Edge of Destiny, around the middle of the book, felt a lot like a Megaman game; choose a boss, jump into their stage, kill, and get out. Next face in the selection screen. All of this, separated by impersonal letters with subtext from the Queen of Divinity’s Reach.

Yeah, that part of the book disappointing me greatly.

1. Let’s kill a dragon champion!!
2. Letter from Jennah
3. Next!!

I mean, the Icebrood was fine. But Morgus Lethe and the destroyer of life felt like unnecessary repetition. If you’re going to read the book, you can skip those fights (like 100 pages)

Rhaegar.1203:

The narrative in Edge of Destiny, around the middle of the book, felt a lot like a Megaman game; choose a boss, jump into their stage, kill, and get out. Next face in the selection screen. All of this, separated by impersonal letters with subtext from the Queen of Divinity’s Reach.

The most accurate description of this book I have ever seen! Kudos to you!

Rhaegar.1203:

The narrative in Edge of Destiny, around the middle of the book, felt a lot like a Megaman game; choose a boss, jump into their stage, kill, and get out. Next face in the selection screen. All of this, separated by impersonal letters with subtext from the Queen of Divinity’s Reach.

“Message from Queen Jennah.

Crystal Laser completed!

Get your weapons ready!

Get equipped with Crystal Laser"

Edge of Destiny was dreadful and only good to serve a little background on how that party came to be when you later play & meet them in Guild Wars 2. The writing style was so simple, it felt like reading a children’s story compared to fantasy works by notables like GRRM, Ray Feist, etc.

I agree with the OP wholeheartedly – they have a large audience, and I think most are more or less mature and should be eligible to be treated with respect and able to appreciate a darker story. There’s just too much slapstick seaping through and permeating the entire personal story and lots of the early characters you meet. It’s like 70-80% of all NPCs you meet might as well turn up at some bar in LA on stand-up comedy night.

This – in a fantasy world threatened by elder dragons, their minions and war. Yes, in the hubs removed from war you’re sure to see a lighter tone, but even out there everywhere you roam there’s just so much forced comedy it just gets the exact opposite effect – I just cannot take it seriously. I’d appreciate a little gallows humour – but that’s not the line Anet has taken, it’s just downright slapstick served with a lot of puns, and when you groan over and over, in the end you don’t care about the story being told anymore.

I’ll grant them that the current LS with Kiel investigating the Aetherblades, their retreat, the jubilee and the chaos that ensued has been somewhat more serious, and the memorable cut-scene from the Dead End bar was just wow… classy, film noir – that shows that Anet CAN do this.

So basically, my plea is that Anet cut back on tossing in too much comedy; this isn’t Monkey Island… and Monkey Island was subtle and managed it but GW2 has just gone over the top…

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Minstrel 2.0 (Mc-whatever will never be able to hold a candle to Maklain the Minstrel) and Job-hobo-tron remind me of Bulk and Skull from the original Power Rangers. A comedy side-story that gets directly involved in problems.

Problem is, Braham and Rox is also a comedy routine, as well as Motto, and lets not forget Faren.

I agree with this 100%, I really do enjoy Braham and Rox, I think ANet have done an amazing job with both of them. However, as pointed out there are a lot of characters who just don’t seem totally serious, like everything is a joke or a laugh and it seems really off.

I feel they need to switch their current approach, from mainly funny and a few serious characters, to serious characters and situations and a few funny moments to ease tension.

They should have made Faren lose an eye or a hand. That would have added a bit of much needed drama to his comic relief role, and would have created a foundation to build up his character. How would such a vain character react to having his eye removed? Would it completely change his personality and outlook on life? Would he perhaps become a stronger, more human character, that we can have empathy for?

And how would this change Logan’s feelings towards Jennah? First Snaff gets killed because he has to rush to her aid. Now an innocent man is horribly mutilated, just because he thought he was saving the life of the Queen. Would it give Logan feelings of doubt whether he should continue following this woman?

There are so many opportunities here to allow these ridged cardboard characters to step out of their cliche roles, and become fully fledged characters. I wish the writers would take that gamble, and not play it so safe all the time.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

They should have made Faren lose an eye or a hand. That would have added a bit of much needed drama to his comic relief role, and would have created a foundation to build up his character. How would such a vain character react to having his eye removed? Would it completely change his personality and outlook on life? Would he perhaps become a stronger, more human character, that we can have empathy for?

And how would this change Logan’s feelings towards Jennah? First Snaff gets killed because he has to rush to her aid. Now an innocent man is horribly mutilated, just because he thought he was saving the life of the Queen. Would it give Logan feelings of doubt whether he should continue following this woman?

There are so many opportunities here to allow these ridged cardboard characters to step out of their cliche roles, and become fully fledged characters. I wish the writers would take that gamble, and not play it so safe all the time.

I wish the could learn a thing or two from song of ice and fire.

They know their Ice&Fire, bro. Why else keep the characters you like less? Scarlet? Trahearne?

They took that lesson to their hearts. Kill the Starks, leave the Boltons.

Rhaegar.1203:

They know their Ice&Fire, bro. Why else keep the characters you like less? Scarlet? Trahearne?

They took that lesson to their hearts. Kill the Starks, leave the Boltons.

Oh come on, the Boltons are way better than the Starks. They know their medieval ways. They’re survivors, not knights in shining armor. They know who to ally and who to betray.

It’s not that; it’s the fact that 90% of the readers/viewers have the Stark House as their favorite, so GRRM kills its members.

Ludovicus.7980:

Oh come on, the Boltons are way better than the Starks. They know their medieval ways. They’re survivors, not knights in shining armor. They know who to ally and who to betray.

Oh look, a Michael Bolton fan!

I kid, I kid.

Rhaegar.1203:

It’s not that; it’s the fact that 90% of the readers/viewers have the Stark House as their favorite, so GRRM kills its members.

Well duh, who wouldn’t love Tony Stark? Everyone should have Iron Man’s house as their favorite.

Sorry, couldn’t resist. :P

It’s clear that GW2’s writers have seen game of thrones, or read a song of ice and fire, because why else do you think Minster Zamon’s asked for trial by combat? That was literally ripped from game of thrones.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It’s clear that GW2’s writers have seen game of thrones, or read a song of ice and fire, because why else do you think Minster Zamon’s asked for trial by combat? That was literally ripped from game of thrones.

Hahaha, yeah. I forgot that part. I did the noble line back in the beta.
Back on topic. The kidnapping of Farren was like if Kormir had been kidnapped by Varesh and she would’ve ended alive and in underware while saying that Varesh likes to play with her hostages and she plays rough… Just picture that.

Anyway, I hope that this whole Scarlet plot ends with something serious. That Scarlet herself is only an introduction to something grim.

Ice and Fire == Flame & Frost