Guild Wars 2

I wondered something aswell, ive read that the humans arent official from Tyria and set foot on land from a different land.

So how big is the world do you think? Is there a reference in gw1 aswell for this?

In GW1, actually, we played in a couple of those other lands. As for how big the world is- it’s still somewhat unofficial, but this map is in the game and appears to depict the whole of the globe. Our m map (what is generally referred to as the continent of Tyria) is the relatively small chunk with particular detail in the upper center.

Humans are from a different world altogether.
“Wherever they originated, humans are not native to the world as they were brought there by the Six Gods.² The gods themselves only predate humans by a short period of time”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Human#History

I’m still confused about this. So the Gods brought the Humans to Cantha, from where they spread to Elona, and later to Tyria, but the Gods lived in Arah, so the Humans found them again later?

I think this is odd.

Only a little. Remember that the gods in their true form had an unfortunate tendency to blind people. They wouldn’t have been able to live among the people anyway, not without hiding their forms, and if that’s the case, why not live far away where your followers aren’t tempted? That’s doubly true in light of the evidence that they were studying the previous dragonrise in Arah, knowledge that they seem not to have wanted the humans to have.

wouw.5837:

I’m still confused about this. So the Gods brought the Humans to Cantha, from where they spread to Elona, and later to Tyria, but the Gods lived in Arah, so the Humans found them again later?

The Gods first brought the serpent-like Forgotten to Tyria to oversee it and protect it. At this stage I believe the other races were the only ones there, though I don’t think I’ve ever seen a list of exactly which… such as were the Norn in Tyria before the Humans – they’re so alike, and I kind of regard them as human-like although they’re distinct.

Later, the Gods brought Humans to Tyria (no idea where from, but a different world). The Humans spread like wildfire and moved to Tyria(Kryta), Elona, Cantha, etc. and the Forgotten were pushed out in Tyria & Elona but in Cantha the Humans and Forgotten remained more harmonious.

Then, Abaddon wanted to further develop the world and released magic to its races – but the races rather used it for weapons and warfare. The “ruler” of the human kingdoms at this point, King Doric, then went to Arah to plead with the Gods to remove the gift of magic.

The Gods (excl. Abaddon) obliged and contained the magic in the five Bloodstones, thus preventing anyone from gaining control over all magic. In response, Abaddon took the Margonites (his followers) to war on the remaining Five Gods (Dwayna, Lyssa, Balthazar, Grenth, Melandru). Abaddon lost and was banished to the Realm of Torment – its creation was such a powerful blow that the power unleashed led to creation of The Desolation and the Crystal Desert.

Following this, the Five Gods left the face of Tyria (“Exodus of the Gods”) and marks the start 0 AE of our current (Mouvelian) calendar.

ed. To the better lore people than me; this is a rather populistic short-hand account of the events. I just wrote ‘Forgotten pushed out’ and don’t go into exact details of this, or the racial wars or even details of King Doric’s journey to Arah.

It was a good overview, Dondarrion. I’m not correcting anything, just elaborating in a couple of places for clarity’s sake.

We’re told that the humans first were brought to Orr, and then presumably were relocated somewhere south of Cantha. We know they moved north into Cantha, and then a few hundred years later made it across the ocean north to Tyria and Elona.

The human kingdoms (well, at the time, kingdom) ruled by Doric, incidentally, were the ones on the Tyrian continent- Ascalon, Orr, and Kryta. Elona and Cantha had their own separate dynasties at the time of the Exodus.

The world of Tyria that we know now were created by the six human gods. This had happened while the Elder Dragons were asleep. Before this the world of Tyria were different and were regulated by the Elder Dragons. How different the world of Tyria were before the six human gods arrival and recreation no one knows. However an indication can be suggested by the six elder dragon orbs/realms in the Eternal Alchemy paralleled the six realms of torment in GW 1.

Dondarrion.2748:

The Humans spread like wildfire and moved to Tyria(Kryta), Elona, Cantha, etc. and the Forgotten were pushed out in Tyria & Elona but in Cantha the Humans and Forgotten remained more harmonious.

I don’t recall seeing Forgotten in Cantha, but please correct me if I’m mistaken.

Rhaegar.1203:

Dondarrion.2748:

The Humans spread like wildfire and moved to Tyria(Kryta), Elona, Cantha, etc. and the Forgotten were pushed out in Tyria & Elona but in Cantha the Humans and Forgotten remained more harmonious.

I don’t recall seeing Forgotten in Cantha, but please correct me if I’m mistaken.

“Surprisingly, although surviving records and artifacts from this period prove that the serpentine Forgotten dwelt in Cantha as well, they appear not to have come into conflict with humans there. My own interpretation of the data indicates that geographic reasons are most likely: the two races did not compete for food or territory before the Forgotten departed the world en masse.” They still left in 174, long, long before GW1.

wouw.5837:

I’m still confused about this. So the Gods brought the Humans to Cantha, from where they spread to Elona, and later to Tyria, but the Gods lived in Arah, so the Humans found them again later?

I think this is odd.

We don’t know where the gods took humans, but it doesn’t seem to be Cantha. Lore implies that humans sailed to Cantha just as they did Elona and Tyria. My guess based on the Priory’s world map would be that humans were brought by Dwayna in Orr, however the land of Tyria was still blighted by the dragon’s so the gods took humans elsewhere – mainly, Sunrise Crest to the west. While humans were there Balthazar and Melandru fixed the land (implying a godly government by Abaddon, Lyssa, and Dhuum – Dwayna was likely taking care of the surviving races hence why dwarves revered her and Grenth, her child).

But over time humans began sailing, landed on the Sunken Islands then Battle Isles, (per trade routes seen on Priory map) the the northern shores of Cantha (per lore) and later Echovald and Jade Sea (separate groups), and groups from Sunrise Crest traveled to Tyria and Elona, making the earliest kingdoms of Orr (royalty later going to Ascalon resulting in Orr becoming a colony to break off in 2 AE), Elon (Primeval Kings), and Margonites.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

We don’t know where the gods took humans, but it doesn’t seem to be Cantha. Lore implies that humans sailed to Cantha just as they did Elona and Tyria.

Having done a little more research on this, I pieced this together.

The Kingdom of Orr was the first human kingdom established on the continent of Tyria, created by both god and man.

From: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Orr#cite_note-1 which is citing a TowerTalk interview on Humans where Ree stated:

So, once long, long ago, the gods of the humans brought the humans to Tyria. And they founded a kingdom called Orr and the city of Arah. And Arah was the city of the Gods. The Gods actually lived there among the people much like the forbidden city at the center of China’s main city. Arah had an area, where the gods lived and the humans lived around them and worshipped them and adopted Tyria. From there the humans spread north and east up and to a land they called Ascalon, where they founded the kingdom. And from there they headed around to the west to Kryta.

This doesn’t make sense, Ascalon being founded as the first – after Orr – kingdom as humans spread north east from Orr.
However – the article on Humans from the original Guild Wars wiki states several times;

Humans arrived on the Tyrian continent in 205 BE (305 CC, -5 DR). Since their arrival, three major human polities have arisen, Ascalon, Kryta, and Orr. Orr was the first region colonized.

But then a bit further down…

Humanity arrived in Cantha in 786 BE, over 500 years before their arrival on the continents of Tyria and Elona.

Then my question is; if humans arrived in Orr 205 BE, Ascalon was founded 100 BE and Orr was – as we’re told – founded by the human gods and humans; how did humans suddenly arrive 500 years earlier in Cantha, thus even predating the arrival of the Gods in Tyria by… 500 years?

Am I missing a vital piece of information here?

Dondarrion.2748:

Am I missing a vital piece of information here?

Historically speaking, history is only as accurate as the historians recording it, and so the past is as subject to change as the present.

See also: first there is a retcon, then there is no retcon, then there is, and eventually even the retconners have trouble keeping track.

Well… you are missing one important piece:

2 AE: Orr becomes an independent nation.

That’s part of every official timeline we have, up to and including the one in Sea of Sorrows a year after GW2 released. It doesn’t exactly clear anything up though. It’s possible that there is an honest, sensible explanation locked up in the ANet vaults somewhere that reconciles all these discrepancies, but if so we haven’t seen it yet.

Dondarrion.2748:

Am I missing a vital piece of information here?

Yes. When humans arrived in continental Tyria (and Elona) in 205 BE, it was seemingly by boat and not by portal, which was how humans were brought to the world of Tyria.

This means that humans were brought to the world at Orr, then taken elsewhere – likely given the dragon corruption per the Orrian History Scrolls.

This is a topic that is brought up only in sparing details whenever it is brought up, and each time different details.

From what I gathered, Arah wasn’t build by the gods, but renovated by them. The Altar of Glaust that is in Arah was used to free Glint, and the ritual used by the Forgotten was said to require specific geological requirements (“There have been spells that could successfully cleanse a living thing of dragon corruption (see the Ruined City of Arah dungeon’s Forgotten path, or the climax of the Pact’s campaign in Orr) but they are not well understood, require significant resources to cast, and must be cast in a particular geographic location, so they are not universally available.”) – since the ritual was reused by the Pact, that means that it couldn’t have been moved. This also explains the line in the Orrian History Scrolls where Dwayna arrived on Tyria (“[Dwayna] placed her pale foot on the stones of Arah, opened the gates, and brought humanity to the world.”) as the city would thus already have been built.

After arriving, Balthazar and Melandru seemed to have cleansed continental Tyria of dragon corruption (“[Balthazar] swept Orr with a cleansing flame.” and “Wise Melandru, oldest of them all, made of Orr a green and flowering expanse.”). This was no doubt very dangerous work, thus it makes sense that the humans that the gods brought for sake of hopeful paradise (Dwayna/Melandru) or to conquer the new world (Balthazar) would be taken out of the most hazardous godly job. Furthermore, there’s heavy implication from GW1 lore that only three gods (maybe four given the removal of knowledge of Abaddon) were in Arah when Doric pleaded to them; this begs the question: where were the other two/three? Taking care of humans in lands elsewhere is a good chance, IMO.

Going off of the Durmand Priory map of Tyria, there are trade routes from the Battle Isles to the lands to the west. Jeff Grubb once hinted that the “human homeland” may be south of either Cantha or Elona, but he was careful in using “may”; there is no land south of Cantha, thus this was likely changed during development. Before the second world map (the Durmand Priory one), I had thought that the human homeland would be the land west of Cantha, but with the trade routes I am doubtful.

We know that when humans arrived on Cantha, they arrived first on Shing Jea (“Canthans settled the northwest coast and Shing Jea Island.”) – this indicates a good chance of direction that the humans came from the west, north, or northwest. Going off of the DP map, the trade routes from the western continent hits the Battle Isles then to Cantha; if humans sailed to Cantha, then that is a good chance for the route that was taken.

Of the place where humans were before Cantha, we know but two things: Chong – now the Celestial Pig – is of those times, and the Cliffside Fractal occurs during this time.

Now, for when humans arrived in Tyria and Elona in 205, we know three things:

• The Elonians built a city and social structure within five years, uniting into a single nation. This proves that they were advanced and united enough for such.
• Thrulnn the Lost claims they arrived by boat. While he’s wrong on the fall of jotun, this may be a field he has some merit in.
• Canthans knew nothing of their Tyrian (and likely Elonian) cousins during their establishment.

The rest, past this, is pretty clear to me: Humans established Orr, then Ascalon; Doric was crowned in Ascalon in the year after its founding; Kryta was established by Doric’s son and warred, for a time, with Orr/Ascalon, but before Doric died in 1 BE he ruled all three nations. After Doric’s death, the three nations divided over time, with Kryta recolonized by Elona in 300 AE (which was also the year that the Centaur War sparked).

Sources in order of mentioning their details:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/New-lore-interview-to-Anet-lore-team/first
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls#The_Six
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cathedral_of_Silence_%28story%29#Dialogues
http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/02/guild-wars-2-interview/
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Empire_Divided#Late_Pre-Imperial_Era
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lorespinner_Ri_So
http://wartower.tumblr.com/post/49691195928/in-this-lorespecial-episode
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thrulnn_the_Lost

@Aaron: regarding the “Orr was built first, but became an independent nation later” thing, that’s actually an easy explanation:

King Doric ruled all three kingdoms at one point or another; he was crowned in Ascalon (King’s Watch), but had his palace in Kryta (Lion’s Arch), so it was likely that while Orr was home to the Six, Doric ruled from elsewhere. Thus Orr would split off from Ascalon/Kryta, and not the other way around.

The question, to me, is who ruled Orr before King Doric?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

From what I gathered, Arah wasn’t build by the gods, but renovated by them.

But then Ree’s statement doesn’t make sense:

So, once long, long ago, the gods of the humans brought the humans to Tyria. And they founded a kingdom called Orr and the city of Arah.

If you found a kingdom and a city, you build it from the base and it didn’t exist prior to being founded.

Oh, and thank you for clarifications on the other matters at hand, very interesting and enlightening