Guild Wars 2

I’m making this ‘brief’ thread to denote my random, unorganized thoughts on hints ArenaNet may have planted about future plotlines.

End of HoT
First thing I’ll mention is the obvious. At the end of Hearts and Minds, there is a cinematic showing the magic of Mordremoth going into four directions. These directions roughly match the cardinal directions (north, south, east, west). The one that went north struck Tarir and the egg, which becomes active and starts beating indicating it is no longer in stasis, before continuing further into Forsaken Thicket.

Further, if you talk to Rytlock afterwards, he mentions wanting to go after Kralkatorrik, while Braham mentions wanting to go after Jormag.

Raid
Back when the story of the raid was first talked about, one of the things that was said was how it was based after the main story of HoT. In the raid, there are journals, one of which mentions Mordremoth’s death and how that caused a storm that riled all things magical in the area up.

What was also mentioned was how it leads into the next story plot, though how relevant this lead in is, is still unknown. For all we know, it could just be this “windstorm” that was caused by Mordremoth’s death.

HoT promotions
There were a lot of concept art created for Heart of Thorns – or at least presented with the HoT promotions. Yet very few made it into the game. Notable ones include:

• Three dragon heads coming from waves
• Another Pale Tree (can’t find image again, so it wasn’t main site stuff)

Then there is, of course, the trailer showing a war against sylvari (Canach’s (in)famous line “stop treating us like monsters”)

The New Borderlands
I find it rather strange for a jungle-focused expansion to add a desert borderland. Stranger still was all the not-so-subtle yet apparently never talked about aspects of it.

The music of the Borderlands is a remix, it seems, of some Elona music. I can’t provide specifics now as I’m not at home, unfortunately, so I will later. Further, the Lich Tower corner of the map eerily matches that of the northern Desolation in theme and of course, undead-ness.

Story Trinkets
In Season 2, a series of ascended trinkets were added. Half of them – Wynne’s Locket, Ogden’s Ankh, Aspect Amulet, Ventari’s Chisel, Caithe’s Blossom, and Caithe’s Remorse – was based on the events of Season 2, either directly or indirectly. Others seem randomly added: Jurah’s Jewel, Sandford Family Ring, Forgotten Band, Plague Signet, Verata’s Seared Ring, and Quetzal Crest.

However, as one may note, two of those have proven related to HoT. Forgotten and Quetzal both play a role – indirectly and directly – in the HoT maps. Even Verata may hold an indirect relevants, albeit with a lot of stretching: one of the guild hall NPCs had a bad run in with Isgarren, who lives in the Wizard’s Tower that Verata was near.

This shows a possibility not only that the other seemingly-randomly-added could still play a role, but also shows that the four added in HoT should follow the same theme. And they do: one of four is directly related, three are seemingly unrelated:

Mordrem Loop is directly related. Janthir’s Gaze; Abaddon’s Cowl; Sun, Moon, and Stars are seemingly unrelated… or are they?

Janthir is related, indirectly, to the White Mantle whom we know are behind bandits and that’s the plot of the raid. So thus we have two related, two seemingly unrelated.

Future plots may show relevance to these ‘seemingly unrelated’ items.

Conclusion
All of the above leads me to believe thus:

We’ll initially get a plot related to Krytan conflicts. Canach’s scene in the trailer wasn’t for HoT but Season 3, showing the aftermath of the revelation we never had time to witness in civilized Tyria. The raid, which I suspect will end with a fight against Lazarus, will lead into the White Mantle’s open return, and the plot will focus with a new map north of Brisban Wildlands and perhaps include Malyck’s tree in a different part of the season (if S3 is like S2, we’ll get two maps – one east of Tangeld Depths and one north of Brisban sounds like a good probability so long as Anet doesn’t throw a curve ball).

Following this, I see two possibilities. Either we’ll go into the Crystal Desert and seeing the edge of Joko’s domain, to fight Kralkatorrik. Or the DSD will make a move and our attention will be pulled from the established dragons once again.

The Lazarus connection I too had suspected, but otherwise, I’d be very happy to see these predictions come to fruition.

I think the edge of Joko’s Domain is the closest we will get to Elona though. I’m unconvinced we will ever visit another continent – I’m not sure the game is well set up for such a split of population.

I wonder if we do go to Kralk, would we enlist Charr from the North to aid the southern Legions as well, thus opening up another possible area?

Randulf.7614:

I’m unconvinced we will ever visit another continent – I’m not sure the game is well set up for such a split of population.

How would that split up the population more than HoT did? I mean, I too think the chances of us ever visiting areas outside of the current world map are very slim but not for that reason.

I wonder if we do go to Kralk, would we enlist Charr from the North to aid the southern Legions as well, thus opening up another possible area?

Those Charr are already enlisted. They are called blood legion charr and they are all over the iron legion’s lands. That said, it does make some amount of sense if the story about Kralkatorrik is tied, to some extent, to that of the Charr (and possibly to Ebonhawke).

The population would be split if we go deep into Elona.

HoT is critizised for only adding four maps, however on the other hand these are only four maps people are going too.
If you imagine them adding a new continent the size of the core game, the population will thin out even more.

Right now they can control the people and keep the content relevant, however if you get a sudden big influx of new maps, which offer new stuff in various ways (better events, new skins, lore, etc. ), they will loose the attention of the core areas, simply because they are outdated . If they want to do that, they would have to update the old maps to keep them on the same level, which means updating rewards for example.

On the topic:
Trahearn was allready preparing troups on Kalkratoriks front, so we got intel and in the best szenario allready a forward base (btw. can we finally get a true pact HQ? I would like to see some kind of structure in this world army ) in his direction.

In the open world, we can see the pact being on the front of Jormag as well. Claw of Jormag is under Pact weapon bombardement, since release. Brahams is also in great need to do something relevant, so going Norn centric might be a good thing.

However, with your ideas, we actually got several plots we can tap into and which might work in tandem:

- Krytan conflict, the return of the white mantle, the peace negotiations with the charr around Ebenhawk and the racism against the Sylvari could boil down into one big mess. Eryone is going at each others throat (thanks to PTSD) and the White Mantle (I want them in full armor, please), who was very radical in the past (very human centric, though the alliances the WM-Bandits had with the other races are questionable) might swoop in trying to gain the trust on the side of the humans.
We still got Caudecus plot to some degree, who dealt with the bandits, for example.
Also, there is the mystery of the Krytan Locket.

Don`t think we go all Cantha here, though, since we had such a story allready.

- LA gets destroyed again (please this) and we get a proper redesign, because the Consortium was cheap (as long as these sea creatures don`t form a Megazord, i don`t care about them.). Three headed Seamonster, ftw.

- We don´t go into sidestory stuff (which we should in my opinion. So many open questions) and head towards the Crystal Desert for one simple thing: Answers . We still got Glints layer there, if I am not mistaken. Maybe we can go in there.

Extra: RYTLOCK EX MACHINA: Our too cool for explanation Charr finaly spills the beans and we get on a completly different journey, following Glints glourious lagacy, as we only know where one of four beams went.

Overall i don`t care where we are going. All I want is some answers. It wasn`t funny after season 1. It wasn`t funny after season 2.
Mysteries for mysteries sake are just annoying and if they keep piling up they will never be resolved if we take the current developmentcycle into acount.

Now I am not disillusional to the point that they will be able to answer everything (just look at the pile left over from GW1, but other games aren`t any better), but I would like some things just flat out answered.
Keeping them in store for later is a nice little idea, however silence is just as annoying as an “you will see”. Though with the later we would have at least the confirmation that it would amount to anything and we aren`t theorycrafting into a void.

I don’t think we’re going to be facing the DSD soon solely from a mechanical perspective. Namely, underwater combat is still jank and Anet have focus remarkably little attention towards it. Most elite spec skills I’ve checked on don’t work underwater and the Rev only has one underwater weapon but two underwater weapon slots. If they were planning towards a confrontation with the DSD then I think Anet would have worked to improve or expand upon underwater options now instead of more or less shutting them away.

I agree with you in regards to Kralkatorrik though. That’s where I’m placing my bets. You’ve done excellent research and make good points. In addition to what you’ve said, I think there’s a plausible additional point to consider that could link the White Mantle and Kralkatorrik.

A White Mantle arc will more than likely bring a degree of focus back towards Kryta and Krytan politics. Especially considering the White Mantle’s depiction as bandits and Caudecus’s MO has been using bandits as a proxy force against the throne. I’m not saying that Caudecus is White Mantle, per se, I just think the coincidence here is highly suspicious. This ties into Kralkatorrik because the most important, dangling Krytan politics plot hook is, of course, the Ebonhawke Treaty. And what’s right near Ebonhawke? The gate into the Crystal Desert. Considering that our airforce is currently decorating the Maguuma, if Kralkatorrik starts stirring and making trouble, this is the most likely route of attack towards its den.

This, to me at least, strikes me as a plausible way that we could plot a path directly from White Mantle to Kralkatorrik.

The picture with the dragon attacking what appears to be Lion’s Arch… I’m begging for the love of all things good that we don’t ruin the city AGAIN for a few more years… I think Kralkatorrik is next.

Reason A: Glint’s egg is about to hatch, Kralkatorrik was NOT HAPPY with Glint upon waking up, I think the second that he catches wind of her having a live offspring, he’ll go into a rage again… he may even attempt to cross central tyria. To support this, Glint’s egg is placed opposite of the map from Kralkatorrik, this could be a coincidence, or the forgotten deliberately chose Tarir because of it’s distance from Kralkatorrik.

Reason B: Trahearne was preparing to kill Kralkatorrik, Destiny’s Edge has unfinished business with him.

Reason C: In line with B, Destiny’s Edge wounded Kralkatorrik very badly, nearly, but ultimately not killing the dragon. Zojja will want revenge for Snaff. Logan will want to redeem himself. Rytlock is a charr and he’s just a threat to them. Eir, who like Braham, would want Jormag is dead.

Those are my major reasons.

That’s for the next dragon.

However, the current story doesn’t seem to be talking about dragons directly (for now), but rather <possibly> the Mursaat, White Mantle, and Bloodstone.

A few crazies have suggested Primordus is in the Maguuma Wastes, but to put it simply, I don’t agree with that theory, I don’t see any reason to believe he’s there and not underground as we’ve been told. Destroyer’s can spawn seemingly anywhere.

Talking about the Quetzal, is it possible they could play into a story involving the Dominion of Winds? During the main sequence awakening of the dragon’s and the following disasters that struck, the Tengu, with exception to the Quetzal united and established the Dominion of Winds. They say the city has issues with destroyers? But we’ve yet to actually see the city at all.

Back to the dragons… sorry for jumping topics, I’m confident Bubbles is not coming yet. I can even see Kralkatorrik being delayed for much the same reason, but less so. With Zhaitan’s death, now only Bubbles blocks the way to Cantha, I doubt Arena Net is ready to open that door. Kralkatorrik is blocking Elona, while he could be killed, and they simply say that the undead of Palawa Joko are blocking the way… I feel like that’s very lame. Based on this, Jormag and Primordus would be good dragon candidates based on the consequences of the deaths of the other dragons. I honestly believe Bubbles will be the last dragon to kill, then we’d focus our attention on Cantha… I suppose the Elona route is possible as well…

There’s still a lot to deal with before Cantha/Elona get touched, to name a few items. The bloodstone, the remaining dragons, racial conflicts(the ghosts of ascalon, krytan bandits, sons of svanir, etc), the whole Glint/Forgotten plot… and many others. I’d love it if we eventually got something featuring the human gods or underworld/fissure of woe, but that doesn’t necessarily have to take place in Tyria.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• Another Pale Tree (can’t find image again, so it wasn’t main site stuff)

[…]

The music of the Borderlands is a remix, it seems, of some Elona music. I can’t provide specifics now as I’m not at home, unfortunately, so I will later. Further, the Lich Tower corner of the map eerily matches that of the northern Desolation in theme and of course, undead-ness.

I wanted to clarify these since I’m now home… but it seems that I have to scour the internet for the image and the song used/similar to the one used…

However, another thing I just noticed: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Point_of_No_Return_5.jpg

“They belong to the dragon now” – a line used in the HoT trailer, but what’s curious is that the image shows Chak.

Kind of hints to the theory that Chak might be the DSD’s minions (I do find it weird the asura learned about them from the Nuhoch when they supposedly came underground in the Maguuma Jungle area – like the asura).

Jaken.6801:

- We don´t go into sidestory stuff (which we should in my opinion. So many open questions) and head towards the Crystal Desert for one simple thing: Answers . We still got Glints layer there, if I am not mistaken. Maybe we can go in there.

Extra: RYTLOCK EX MACHINA: Our too cool for explanation Charr finaly spills the beans and we get on a completly different journey, following Glints glourious lagacy, as we only know where one of four beams went.

It’s pretty obvious that the ‘long term story’ is Glint’s legacy. And given that Rytlock is a Herald, that means him becoming revenant is likely tied into it.

I don’t expect anything on this to be resolved soon™. We won’t see it concluded until we see the Elder Dragon arc concluded.

A Study In Gold has made that pretty clear to me. So has the constant cliffhangers and lack of explaining WHY THE EGG IS SO kitten IMPORTANT TO OUR CHARACTER.

Tapioca.9062:

I don’t think we’re going to be facing the DSD soon solely from a mechanical perspective. Namely, underwater combat is still jank and Anet have focus remarkably little attention towards it. Most elite spec skills I’ve checked on don’t work underwater and the Rev only has one underwater weapon but two underwater weapon slots. If they were planning towards a confrontation with the DSD then I think Anet would have worked to improve or expand upon underwater options now instead of more or less shutting them away.

I would hope that they intend to rework or improve underwater combat with the DSD arc.

And most elite specs do work underwater. It’s just that they work just barely.

Regardless, they’ve placed a few too many subtle hints to the DSD IMHO for it not to soon be involved. Especially since we’re running low on active dragons.

Once again, I don’t agree that Bubbles is ready for a campaign yet, but it’s getting to be about time to reveal what’s going on there. I wouldn’t get on the Bubbles hype train just yet… it’s been a long time coming, but I’m confident there’s a long time to go.

Mushroomz.4280:

Once again, I don’t agree that Bubbles is ready for a campaign yet, but it’s getting to be about time to reveal what’s going on there. I wouldn’t get on the Bubbles hype train just yet… it’s been a long time coming, but I’m confident there’s a long time to go.

You know, till Colin slipped up about the jungle dragon, we didn`t think he was ready as well (which he wasn`t in the end, but that`s a different story).

By all means, they could just take us for a completly different direction again and BAM, DSD, start training underwater skills guys.

However given the fact that they are phasing out underwater weapons at the moment (which is a bad idea, as you could use these models for land based weapons later, but who am I to judge) and reducing the water areas in new content clearly paints a different picture.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s pretty obvious that the ‘long term story’ is Glint’s legacy. And given that Rytlock is a Herald, that means him becoming revenant is likely tied into it.

I don’t expect anything on this to be resolved soon™. We won’t see it concluded until we see the Elder Dragon arc concluded.

A Study In Gold has made that pretty clear to me. So has the constant cliffhangers and lack of explaining WHY THE EGG IS SO kitten IMPORTANT TO OUR CHARACTER.

Exactly that is what my little rant at the end was about.
Give us some answers allready.
It`s not like we have access to high profile people throughout the world, or have gained their trust thanks to our heroism. I mean, why would anyone want to tell us something.
Oh right… because it would make sense. We deserve it. It would make you more trustworthy. It would make us feel more important, instead of being a simple pawn in someone elses game (which it is, as we are following some stupid vision again… can we go back to Zaithan and forge our own path please… oh wait. There was a vision as well… In that case Scarlet was better, even if it was pretty clumsy handled)

Why can`t someone just tell us what is going on? Odgen? Rytlock? Glint? Pale Tree? Anise? Queen Jenna? Asura Council (okay, maybe not these guys)?

How about some conclusions about CoE, the pact doing a nice little presentation about their knowledge, putting theories aside.
Apearently we got the briefing abotu Mordremoths name… just not ingame… I want these notes too.
It might even have hints on: “I know, let`s attack him in his mind” .

Well, I ended up ranting again. I am sorry.

To the plot:

I would want them to clear some hints up and get the characters they introduced back on track.
They clearly cut character growth throughout HoT (like Kas and Maj, Rox…) for their narrow and focused presentation of their vision (please don`t do it again).

Btw. one storyline we certainly will tackle is Taimi becoming oracle for a while, playing on her asura (bat-) computer and giving us new hints on the EDs (which I don`t believe will be much, as the story has only finished two of six dragons and there could be many more important reveals later… can someone tell me why this game is making me so cynical? I am usual pretty upbeat about this stuff).

Mushroomz.4280:

A few crazies have suggested Primordus is in the Maguuma Wastes, but to put it simply, I don’t agree with that theory, I don’t see any reason to believe he’s there and not underground as we’ve been told. Destroyer’s can spawn seemingly anywhere.

We already know Primordus is probably at the Ring of Fire or IS the Ring of Fire, it only makes sense due to the fact that it’s the only major fire related region on the giant map. I have a sneaking suspicion he’ll be the final dragon we take down, for he was the first to awaken 207 years ago and yet after all this time, the only major thing he has done is chase the asura and several other races to the surface. He has done nothing major since then, and seems, judging by his actions, content to letting his siblings do as they please, possibly even using that to his advantage along with DSD, who seems content with staying down in the deep ocean.

I also suspect that Kralkatorrik will be the next ED to fall, followed by Jormag. The reason being that if we look at every Elder Dragon’s actions so far, Zhaitan and Mordremoth have both played too offensively and open handed, forcing Tyria to go down on them hard with everything they have. Zhaitan’s power became too easy to notice, and Mordremoth overplayed his hand and underestimated his opponents. Now compare that to Jormag, who seems to be playing a middle ground, Kralkatorrik who seems to be saving energy after his battle with Destiny’s Edge, and Primordus and DSD who seem to be keeping their hands close to the chest. Kralkatorrik is still possibly badly damaged from the fight with DE still, going after him is the next logical step because he’ll be having to play defensively due to having lost a lot of power.

After that Jormag will be next in the ball game, due to him slowly extending his territory, leaving DSD and Primordus as the last 2 standing simply because they’re not causing immediate problems. Neither have sent a Dragon Champion at us, neither have openly attacked the races in quite a long time. They were the first 2 to awaken, and most likely the last 2 to fall simply because they’re smart enough to stay out of the crosshairs.

DSD, seeing an opportunity to attack, will most likely toss a dragon champion at Lion’s Arch during a celebration of the fall of Jormag, causing massive casualties and putting the rest of the races on the defensive. Primordus may join DSD by attacking the various home cities from below, or simply set his forces at the ready for the second DSD falls. With the Pact focused on DSD and away from the cities, the second DSD’s death occurs Primordus will launch a full scale attack, destroying the major cities or at least badly damaging them, leaving the remainder of the races badly wounded.

That’s my theory at least, and it’s certainly plausible considering how Mordremoth was able to manipulate Scarlet into doing such a long term plan during Living Story Season 1.

RyuDragnier.9476:

We already know Primordus is probably at the Ring of Fire or IS the Ring of Fire, it only makes sense due to the fact that it’s the only major fire related region on the giant map.

Uh…

You couldn’t be more wrong. The Ring of Fire is an island chain that’s been around – in that place – for over a thousand years (at least since 1 BE).

Primordus has been sleeping beneath what is now the border between Frostgorge Sound and Fireheart Rise, just outside the Central Transfer Chamber, deep underground. He has sense been moving, but remained deep underground (deeper than we got at any point in GW1).

There is ABSOLUTELY no relation between the Ring of Fire and Primordus. In fact, prior to his fall, Zhaitan had control over the Ring of Fire islands via his risen fleet.

Primordus and his territory isn’t anywhere in the map, because it’s beneath the map.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

RyuDragnier.9476:

We already know Primordus is probably at the Ring of Fire or IS the Ring of Fire, it only makes sense due to the fact that it’s the only major fire related region on the giant map.

Uh…

You couldn’t be more wrong. The Ring of Fire is an island chain that’s been around – in that place – for over a thousand years (at least since 1 BE).

Primordus has been sleeping beneath what is now the border between Frostgorge Sound and Fireheart Rise, just outside the Central Transfer Chamber, deep underground. He has sense been moving, but remained deep underground (deeper than we got at any point in GW1).

There is ABSOLUTELY no relation between the Ring of Fire and Primordus. In fact, prior to his fall, Zhaitan had control over the Ring of Fire islands via his risen fleet.

Primordus and his territory isn’t anywhere in the map, because it’s beneath the map.

Sorry about that, guessed because so far every other dragon has been a place on the map in a sense. I keep forgetting that there’s an “underworld” to Tyria.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Kralkatorrik is still possibly badly damaged from the fight with DE still, going after him is the next logical step because he’ll be having to play defensively due to having lost a lot of power.

This idea seems to be making the rounds right now, but I don’t really get it. I just re-read the fight scene in EoD, and neither the guild nor Glint ever do more than superficial damage. The worst Kralkatorrik probably suffered in that fight was when Snaff was able to disrupt its body and knock it out of the sky-essentially mimicking a mid-flight seizure, with some additional magical effects- but considering it got right back up after Snaff’s dealt with, took flight, and “lifted easily away”, I’d be skeptical of any claims that the experience caused it lasting harm. Particularly to the point of crippling it eight years down the road.

It’s becoming something of a pet peeve of mine that people jump behind this. I suspect it simply comes down to A.) confusion on the part of people who never read the book, or who’ve forgotten many details, when they hear DE “almost killed” Kralkatorrik, and B.) jumping to conclusions when it left DE alive, without considering the traits of Elder Dragons. Try to remember that the idea wasn’t to kill Kralkatorrik the way we would in game mechanics, with a thousand cuts, and that he narrowly escaped with a dozen hit points left. This was a set-up for a one-hit KO, everything hinging on one attack, and that attack missed completely. Yeah, Kralkatorrik took a couple dozen arrows, and Glint was able to draw blood once, but those are splinters and scratches to something that size. Which in a round-about manner loops back to the second point: the argument there typically goes that Kralkatorrik had a brush with mortality and that shook it enough that it ran away, ignoring that it’s an Elder Dragon. That’s not how we’ve ever seen Elder Dragons respond. When Zhaitan was bisected by the cannon, he smashed it and swung right back around to carry on the fight. When Asgeir knocked out Jormag’s tooth, it not only didn’t flee, it continued to pursue the fight after its enemies were ready to flee, necessitating a sacrificial spirit rearguard. Even Mordremoth, after we’d all but snuffed it out, blew its best chance of surviving within Trahearne to vent more aggression at us. They aren’t scared of foes when they survive the fight, so think this through. Kralkatorrik never regarded any of its opponents as a threat, except arguably Snaff and Glint. Its only reason to fight was because it was angry at the latter, and right after she died the former kittened it off. Once he was dead, there was no stake in continuing the fight, and a whole world of other things to do that it’d just re-awakened into. What we know about Elder Dragons also shows that they seem compelled to clear out a territory for themselves as a priority after awakening- it’s far more in keeping with our knowledge to assume Kralkatorrik went off to do that.

Looping back around to the topic of the thread- this would suggest Kralkatorrik is emphatically not just huddling in the Crystal Desert licking its wounds, waiting for a hero to finish it off. The safer assumption is that it’s just as busy expanding as any of the others. Since we aren’t hearing anything about that, we can discount the current map as its focus, as well as whatever charr lands lie east of it. That’d leave Elona to the south-east, or Dzalana and other lands we’ve never seen before to the east, or, possibly, south-west into the ocean- and all that is just if it’s still out that way. Just because it’s the crystal dragon doesn’t mean it’s mystically bound to the Crystal Desert. Actually, in this regard, it’s the second hardest dragon to pin down. Where destroyers or icebrood migrate into Tyria, showing where those dragons are pressing their borders against ours, the branded are migrating out of Tyria, with the only hint of where Kralkatorrik’s territory might be being ‘south’, and that’s if the minions are reliably able to tell the dragon’s location.

My point, beyond just finally chiming in to correct something that’s gotten a pass on a few threads, is this: in-universe, there’s no reason to believe Kralkatorrik is any weaker or more vulnerable than the other three, and therefore a more likely target (beyond being last out of bed); and out-of-universe, a pivot to deal with it would inevitably also get entangled with whatever peoples it has been tangling with. Don’t just expect it to be a stepping stone we can deal with while Elona’s in development- it’ll be up in the thick of the Elona story (or the Dzalana story, or wherever else.)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

RyuDragnier.9476:

We already know Primordus is probably at the Ring of Fire or IS the Ring of Fire, it only makes sense due to the fact that it’s the only major fire related region on the giant map.

Uh…

You couldn’t be more wrong. The Ring of Fire is an island chain that’s been around – in that place – for over a thousand years (at least since 1 BE).

Primordus has been sleeping beneath what is now the border between Frostgorge Sound and Fireheart Rise, just outside the Central Transfer Chamber, deep underground. He has sense been moving, but remained deep underground (deeper than we got at any point in GW1).

There is ABSOLUTELY no relation between the Ring of Fire and Primordus. In fact, prior to his fall, Zhaitan had control over the Ring of Fire islands via his risen fleet.

Primordus and his territory isn’t anywhere in the map, because it’s beneath the map.

adding to that, if Tyria works more or less the same way earth works, than his territory is everywhere beneath.

He and his minions are depicted as firey lava beings. So his power is heat, fire and earth to some degree.
EDs are always depicted by one of their domains (viney mordy and death body Zaithan), so it is possible he could freely move around.

He could even be stationed in the planets core (which, I have to admit, would be really cool).

@Aaron
There is also the fact that it has been some years, since these fights.
We only know rough directions of where the EDs went at this point.
Given the fact that the EDs are called a global thread and we finaly got a glmips of the whole world, what stops Kalkratoric to just fly further south and let the other dragons deal with Tyria, while he looks for other lucrative lands.

We know that other continents are full of magical powers as well.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Sorry about that, guessed because so far every other dragon has been a place on the map in a sense. I keep forgetting that there’s an “underworld” to Tyria.

There really hasn’t except for Zhaitan. You have the effects of their rising (Jormag’s shattered Shiverpeaks, Kralkatorrik’s dragonbrand), but their actual location is unknown – Jormag awoke north of the map and came south but we don’t know if it remained south or went back north; Kralkatorrik flew away from the southern end of the Dragonbrand and we don’t know where he ended up.

Only Zhaitan had his personal location on the world map, due to the center of his territory being Orr. We don’t even see all of his territory (which reaches to northern Elona).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

This idea seems to be making the rounds right now, but I don’t really get it. I just re-read the fight scene in EoD, and neither the guild nor Glint ever do more than superficial damage.

Yeah, I agree. The reason we’d go after Kralkatorrik isn’t due to injury but because he has only been awake for 8 years and hasn’t – to our knowledge – had a massive boost of power like Mordremoth did.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, in this regard, it’s the second hardest dragon to pin down. Where destroyers or icebrood migrate into Tyria, showing where those dragons are pressing their borders against ours, the branded are migrating out of Tyria, with the only hint of where Kralkatorrik’s territory might be being ‘south’, and that’s if the minions are reliably able to tell the dragon’s location.

Southeast, actually. They’re going south primarily, but do not remain within the Dragonbrand once they hit Fields of Ruin but start heading southeast.

That said, it would be awesome if fighting Kralkatorrik takes us into Dzalana. I think that’s the only part of Elona I ever truly wanted.

Another thing to consider with Kralkatorrik as the next ED to take down is Logistics. With the Pact Fleet out of comission, I don’t really see us leading an Army against Jormag, crossing Mountain Pathways and glaciers or frozen lakes. Ofcourse that’s assuming we don’t have a new fleet of Aurships at our disposal but even if we do – with Jormags sphere being Ice, I wouldn’t rule out that he or his more powerfull minions can crate things like Snowstorms or Blizzards, especially while looking at the Frozen Maw and the Storms summoned by the Elemental/Shaman
So Air is a No-No with that one if we want to keep our new, shiny fleet we may be getting back.

Kralk on the other hand seems to be focusing on Elona/the desert, which can be reached pretty easily as far as we know. And I’m not only talking about Soldiers marching or Airships flying – think about the huge Tanks of the Charr, those seem nice enough for a joyride down south.

Sure, Kralk could have flown off to who knows where and may even now be stirring up trouble in Cantha, but given ANets storytelling so far, I’d rule that out and put my money on Kralk being somek*tten near the Desert/Elona

Beshbaliq.3724:

Another thing to consider with Kralkatorrik as the next ED to take down is Logistics. With the Pact Fleet out of comission, I don’t really see us leading an Army against Jormag, crossing Mountain Pathways and glaciers or frozen lakes. Ofcourse that’s assuming we don’t have a new fleet of Aurships at our disposal but even if we do – with Jormags sphere being Ice, I wouldn’t rule out that he or his more powerfull minions can crate things like Snowstorms or Blizzards, especially while looking at the Frozen Maw and the Storms summoned by the Elemental/Shaman
So Air is a No-No with that one if we want to keep our new, shiny fleet we may be getting back.

Kralk on the other hand seems to be focusing on Elona/the desert, which can be reached pretty easily as far as we know. And I’m not only talking about Soldiers marching or Airships flying – think about the huge Tanks of the Charr, those seem nice enough for a joyride down south.

Sure, Kralk could have flown off to who knows where and may even now be stirring up trouble in Cantha, but given ANets storytelling so far, I’d rule that out and put my money on Kralk being somek*tten near the Desert/Elona

You know. i would be pleased if they would show us some of the logisitics.

For all we know, we just suddenly have a fleet of ships, but we don`t know where they are manufactured.

We don`t know anything on how the pact is getting things.
Just that the orders pitched together.

We don´t know if they established an HQ, we don`t know where they build their stuff, we don`t know much about their inner workings.

We only went to their forward bases and then poof we saw their toys in action.

Did they take over scarlets facilities?
Did we occupy their airships (even though the pact didn`t take care of Scarlet, but the lionsguard.)?
Did the order build them?

By all means, they could still have a ground based army, full of Charr-battle machinery somwhere on the border, ready for another ED, as they wouldn`t have worked for the jungle.

While flying is nice, riding an armored tank of destruction or driving through the desert on some cool Charr-bikes, would be awesome (Coming with the desert expansion Motorcross-Bikes , only available in the dersert region)

Jaken.6801:

You know. i would be pleased if they would show us some of the logisitics.

For all we know, we just suddenly have a fleet of ships, but we don`t know where they are manufactured.

We don`t know anything on how the pact is getting things.
Just that the orders pitched together.

We don´t know if they established an HQ, we don`t know where they build their stuff, we don`t know much about their inner workings.

We only went to their forward bases and then poof we saw their toys in action.

Did they take over scarlets facilities?
Did we occupy their airships (even though the pact didn`t take care of Scarlet, but the lionsguard.)?
Did the order build them?

By all means, they could still have a ground based army, full of Charr-battle machinery somwhere on the border, ready for another ED, as they wouldn`t have worked for the jungle.

While flying is nice, riding an armored tank of destruction or driving through the desert on some cool Charr-bikes, would be awesome (Coming with the desert expansion Motorcross-Bikes , only available in the dersert region)

Well, from what I gathered, the first batch of airships was actually built by the pact over at Fort Trinity (which I always thought of as the HQ). I vaguely remember touring the Fort for the first time, being led to the Airship docked there and told it was the latest stuff in charr-technology. And later, in the Arah story instance, when you get rescued by Logan on the new flagship which seemed to be created by combining the technoloies of all the races (except maybe Norns/Humans. These don’t seem to contribute much on that front).

Where the fleet came from, well… that’s a whole lot of guesswork. Maybe the pact build them over the course of two years since the defeat of Zhaitan, seeing as they managed to build that flagship in what, a few weeks? Didn’t seem much longer from Claw Island to Orr to Zhaitan, two Months at best? If so, two years should be enough for the twentysomething airships the “Fleet” seemed to consist of, seeing as they could now build from existing plans/blueprints.

And yeah, driving one of those tanks or the pact-enhanced version would be cool. Or, if we do it HoT-Style, we could get a new “vehicle-mastery” akin to the glider, just for the desert. So much possibilities…

Beshbaliq.3724:

Well, from what I gathered, the first batch of airships was actually built by the pact over at Fort Trinity (which I always thought of as the HQ). I vaguely remember touring the Fort for the first time, being led to the Airship docked there and told it was the latest stuff in charr-technology. And later, in the Arah story instance, when you get rescued by Logan on the new flagship which seemed to be created by combining the technoloies of all the races (except maybe Norns/Humans. These don’t seem to contribute much on that front).

Actually, in one of the story instances (What the Eye Behonds) Trahearne says the following:

These airships are the Pact’s crowning achievement: a combination of asura, charr, and human technology.

The Pact developed these airships so that we might fight Zhaitan from every possible angle: land, sea, and now air.

Diovid.9506:

Actually, in one of the story instances (What the Eye Behonds) Trahearne says the following:

These airships are the Pact’s crowning achievement: a combination of asura, charr, and human technology.

The Pact developed these airships so that we might fight Zhaitan from every possible angle: land, sea, and now air.

Thanks for clearing that up. Still not clear on what the humans could have contributed with the technology they usually display, seeing as that is far inferior to either Charr or Asura. The Idea with the ballons maybe, seeing as they are the onlyones to use those (Queen’s Jubilee / Attack on Lion’s Arch)?

Beshbaliq.3724:

Diovid.9506:

Actually, in one of the story instances (What the Eye Behonds) Trahearne says the following:

These airships are the Pact’s crowning achievement: a combination of asura, charr, and human technology.

The Pact developed these airships so that we might fight Zhaitan from every possible angle: land, sea, and now air.

Thanks for clearing that up. Still not clear on what the humans could have contributed with the technology they usually display, seeing as that is far inferior to either Charr or Asura. The Idea with the ballons maybe, seeing as they are the onlyones to use those (Queen’s Jubilee / Attack on Lion’s Arch)?

Ballons might be one thing, clockwork/springwork might be another (as seen in the watchwork creations).

Beshbaliq.3724:

Thanks for clearing that up. Still not clear on what the humans could have contributed with the technology they usually display, seeing as that is far inferior to either Charr or Asura. The Idea with the ballons maybe, seeing as they are the onlyones to use those (Queen’s Jubilee / Attack on Lion’s Arch)?

Despite the show that GW2 has given us, in GW1 humanity has created cannons both magical and mundane – and long before the charr did. They’ve had large levitating platforms before the asura did. And they had created automatons before the asura surfaced. Let alone the achievements of individuals which created an entire race, opened rifts to another dimension, outwitted gods singlehandedly, and so forth.

They’ve been greatly downplayed for GW2, which is a darn shame and one of the many things that I feel GW2 is doing wrong.

As for what fields the humans are seen leading in GW2’s timeframe:

-lighter than air travel (the basics of airship technology, even if the human aesthetics didn’t make it over)
-clocks and similar mechanism-heavy devices, like the mechanical orchestra
-irrigation and quite possibly plumbing
-fortifications and massive-scale stone architecture
-adapting other races’ advances

I think the issue isn’t that humans are behind technologically, but that we haven’t had any stories that’re solved by what they excel in. If we’re engaging in protracted war campaigns, of course militant industrialism is going to be easier to pick up on; if we’re investigating the nature of magic and how it can be turned against magical beings, of course arcanic sci-fi is going to predominate. Plus, the asura are just flashy, the more so for standing out in a fantasy setting. The human capabilities fade into the background until we take them for granted, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t still comparatively remarkable.

Regarding population splitting: I’ve always considered this to be a question of worrying about the division of the pie when you could be getting a bigger pie. More maps does mean that the population is split over more maps – however, having more things to do means that people will spend more time ingame and the overall population will be larger (albeit likely concentrated in a particular location).

Additionally, ArenaNet has introduced various measures to reduce ‘empty map syndrome’. The megaserver system means that you only really need to have enough players for a single instance to populate a map, as opposed to the old system where you could have sixty people in, say, Diessa and they never see anyone else because they’re split among twenty or so servers. Dailies can also encourage people to congregate in particular maps – if you really want a map to be populated when you visit it, you can wait for it to be a map with a daily.

Regarding ArenaNet throwing out underwater combat: It does look that way with HoT. On the other hand, it’s also possible that ArenaNet was simply putting underwater combat in the “we’ll fix that in a future expansion” bucket, and the DSD will come in an expansion with overhauled underwater mechanics.

Regarding airships: Given that they’re described as being made by the Pact (and the Aetherblades reverse-engineered a stolen Pact ship, supposedly – another case of Scarlet being an Idiot Ball plot), they would have to have been made sometime between the founding of the Pact and when we first start seeing them. They’re probably being made continuously through the second half of the personal story, so right after Fort Trinity there are only a couple, while during Zhaitan’s fall there was a fleet.

This implies that they can be built relatively quickly (the Flameheart Rise map and CoF dungeon indicates that there’s an alliance between the High Legions and the Pact, so I suspect that charr industry went into making them). However, it is possible that the Pact is short on the resources that they’d need to repeat the achievement of building a fleet that quickly.

When it comes to the human contribution: I agree with Konig that humanity has been sold short in GW2, likely as an overcompensation on ArenaNet’s part of wanting other races to be more central, although that seems to be shifting now. On the airships specifically, I think their contributions were:

First, the concept of lighter-than-air flight in general (balloons).

Second, and possibly more significantly, humans are probably the only race out of the five that have made extensive use of wind power. There’s the windmills, for a start, the balloons would require extensive knowledge of air currents (or an elementalist pilot) in order to be able to use them as a reliable means of travel, and humans have been sailing throughout recorded history while the asura and charr never had much of a maritime presence until they had engines of various forms. On an oceangoing vessel, you can afford to pretty much ignore the wind if you have a good engine – on a lighter-than-air aircraft, though, you’re going to want means of harnessing the airflow around you so it works for you rather than against you – and nobody has experience with harnessing the wind like humans do.

Thus, I think the human contributions to airship design was 1) the gas pocket itself, and 2) the design of the control surfaces that allow for controlled, steady flight.

On a side note: Humans are also said to hold the best knowledge in agriculture of all races, at least according to the wiki. That can be quite important as well and might be one of the reasons why Kryta can still endure on an economical basis.

Yeah, I think that came up in an interview. There is a discussion in one of Kryta’s farming areas where a couple of humans talk about hiring sylvari laborers because they’re good with plants, though – so in that respect they may only be better because as a race they have more experience.

It’s also worth noting that it’s been mentioned in interview that while asura treat magic as a science, humans treat it more intuitively as an art, and there are a few hints that this means humans can come up with things that an asura wouldn’t think of. There are also a few hints that humans (and sylvari, which we now know are pretty much Mordrem based on humans with minds of their own) might have more magical potential without the aid of devices. Neither of these possible advantages are as in-your-face as those of other races, though.

I wil ljust leave this here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Ideal-Kill-Order-for-the-next-4-Dragons/first#post5837695