Guild Wars 2

Stooperdale.3560:

Does Kiel tell us anything new about the Consortium in this update? The way I read it, she’s wanted to find some evidence against the Consortium but the reactor explosion was in fact all about Scarlet as usual. I couldn’t understand why Kiel wanted to arrest Dessa at the end either after Dessa had opened up the fractal for her.

She wasn’t arresting dessa, she flat out said, “don’t worry you’re not under arrest.” She just wanted to get some more information from her.

Konig Des Todes.2086

Given how Fort Trinity is constructed in less than a few weeks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Infinite Coil Reactor – which spans the full complex – was built and operational within a few months.

No disrespect intended but Fort Trinity was a abandoned Charr fortress (judging by the design) that the Pact re-purposed for there use

Aaron Ansari.1604:

A bit off topic, but are the blue portals seen anywhere else besides used by norn or ice creatures? And I know it’s been coming up a lot of late, but is there anywhere where it is stated that the Crucible of Eternity was created after the Thaumanova disaster?
EDIT: I know the reactor was, but was the whole complex as well, or was that already there? It seems a bit hard to believe that such a huge complex could’ve been excavated, constructed, made operational, and been well on it’s way to achieving viable results, all within a span of months.

Future self in the infinity story line uses a blue portal

Balkor.2197:

Konig Des Todes.2086

Given how Fort Trinity is constructed in less than a few weeks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Infinite Coil Reactor – which spans the full complex – was built and operational within a few months.

No disrespect intended but Fort Trinity was a abandoned Charr fortress (judging by the design) that the Pact re-purposed for there use

I think a majority of what we see is what was built within the span of a few months. There are human ruins found, specifically in Trahearne’s little office space, and the location has very little reason to have been of charr construction based on their general region. Although I have not read Sea of Sorrow’s so I am unsure if that book shines a little more light on the subject.

Durzlla.6295:

She wasn’t arresting dessa, she flat out said, “don’t worry you’re not under arrest.” She just wanted to get some more information from her.

At the very beginning of the story mode, Kiel states she’s commandeering the Mistlock Observatory and arresting Dessa and her krewe.

Sadly, you have to more or less be the one starting the instance to see this dialogue, and it isn’t on the wiki. Thankfully, I manages to get the dialogue.

Balkor.2197:

Konig Des Todes.2086

Given how Fort Trinity is constructed in less than a few weeks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Infinite Coil Reactor – which spans the full complex – was built and operational within a few months.

No disrespect intended but Fort Trinity was a abandoned Charr fortress (judging by the design) that the Pact re-purposed for there use

…No, no it wasn’t.

It was Orrian ruins that they built upon. You can clearly see the ruins underneath the metal which is purely Pact construct.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Durzlla.6295:

She wasn’t arresting dessa, she flat out said, “don’t worry you’re not under arrest.” She just wanted to get some more information from her.

At the very beginning of the story mode, Kiel states she’s commandeering the Mistlock Observatory and arresting Dessa and her krewe.

Sadly, you have to more or less be the one starting the instance to see this dialogue, and it isn’t on the wiki. Thankfully, I manages to get the dialogue.

Balkor.2197:

Konig Des Todes.2086

Given how Fort Trinity is constructed in less than a few weeks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Infinite Coil Reactor – which spans the full complex – was built and operational within a few months.

No disrespect intended but Fort Trinity was a abandoned Charr fortress (judging by the design) that the Pact re-purposed for there use

…No, no it wasn’t.

It was Orrian ruins that they built upon. You can clearly see the ruins underneath the metal which is purely Pact construct.

I was pretty sure that she was commandeering the Mistlock Observatory and was going to arrest her if she didn’t cooperate.

BobbyStein.2315:

Truth be known, devs don’t generally have a lot of spare time to comb the forums. I’ve been making more of an effort to check in on a daily basis, though. I’m also a lot more responsive to constructive threads than overly negative ones.

I think a lot of people have a huge problem with this because overly negative & constructive are not contradictory. Some of the most constructive information you’ve had on Scarlet is extremely negative & has VERY actionable feedback.

feedback: Scarlet’s personality is annoying a hell
action: remove annoying dialog, make her act less “cute”, stop using such modern, “sassy” speech.

feedback: Scarlet does not act like a person who is really insane
action: Again, dialog. make her more focused on her mission than spouting cheap one-liners. make her act like someone who actually belives that what she is doing is what must be done, rather than “Wah! I dont wanna be like da pawe twee! meeeh, you can tew me what to doo!”

feedback: There is NO WAY Scarlet could bring those races together. She has the commanding presence & menace of an inflatable clown.
action: Look to Varesh. Varesh was awesome. Strong, determined, commanding, had a history that she wanted to live up to. She felt like a real leader, but actually felt truely insane at the same time.

feedback: Scarlet is WAY to kitten ed powerful. her mastery of everything & huge army of dimension-hopping factions marginalize great villians like the Mursaat, Palawa Joko, Shiro, Varesh & almost the dragons.
action: Stop. reduce her significance & tone back how smart & effective she really is.

feedback: Retcon Scarlet out. she’s already ruined much of the lore we loved
action: Have us go back in time & wipe her out before she’s born, Dr Who style. seriously. This honestly is the most significant because it’s too late to fix how much she has ruined based on the previous points. “revealing her back story” is not going to make her less annoying, marginalizing,out of place & ridiculous. It doesn’t change what she is & how she acts. It’s trying to make us accept the mistake as somehow valid.

This is the main problem with how you refer to threads like that as “overly negative” & not “constructive”. We get a very distinct feeling that there are specific feedback you absolutely will not take into consideration & it’s not based on actionable feedback. It’s a matter of what the personal preference is of the person that reads the threads. Do I want to keep this character?=pro Scarlet threads are constructive, anti are overly negative. Am I willing to accept that Scarlet is a mistake?=positive & negative Scarlet threads can be constructive.

What I don’t understand is the unwillingness for the writers to accept that she may be a failure. & that maybe it’s best to retcon her out. I mean you’re retconned the gods to be OP wizards that throw “tantrums” & really are less significant & powerful than these world-ending dragons that no one knew about even thought they make up mountain ranges. I don’t understand how it’s “inconceivable” or “non-actionable” to remove her entirely & yet you essentially did the same with the most (previously) most powerful beings in the universe.

I’ve read/skimmed the majority of this thread, so excuse me if this has been brought up;
Has anyone else had the thought that during her out-of-body-experience, Scarlet came to realize she’s living in a game?
I mean, we’re talking about someone who we believe has explored the very fabric of the (her) universe, is it so hard to believe she might have come to figure out what the world of Tyria really is?
January content – “Scarlet Breaks the 4th Wall”
…….I’m semi-serious.

By the way, I don’t think Scarlet breaks lore. I think a lot of players are being overly dramatic about it all. But she does break the suspension of disbelief. There’s too many convenient plots, and characters holding the idiot ball, and too few characters taking rational, logical actions to stop her evil plans. Not enough consequences from her actions. The alliances she makes only serve that Living Story of the month, and then they seem, forgotten. That makes the alliances them selves have no personality. It’s all a bit too simplistic, and I think the average GW2 audience is a bit more intelligent than that. They expect a more mature and clever story.

The thing is also. Scarlet is like a berserk button for the community. She only needs to show up and the forum bursts into flames, it doesn’t matter if she is behind the things or not, there also will be the same threads over and over. I also think people will complain that Scarlet is involved in the final fight against her.

And I agree with Mad Queen that Scarlets doesn’t break the lore. There are many problems with her and I see many people saying that Scarlet is the sole reason for the poor Living Story quality and it would be the best if Anet just retcon her and pretend that she never existed, but this would only lead to another character like Scarlet because if you just scrap things you can’t learn from it.
Scarlet isn’t the cause, she is a symptom of very poor character delivery. We can’t know if she is really a bad or good written character becuase the delivery is too bad. We are getting next to nothing informations about her. The delivery in the Thaumanova was an improvement, even if it feels very forced the time you get there first, but for most of the time, nothing new happens. The Aetherpath was a really good chance to get new informations about her but this chance was wasted The first break of the Scarlet story happened at the worst time possible, right after her introduction and the informations we got at her introductions weren’t a bit detailed.

Remember, having a good written character doesn’t help if you can’t portrait it. Character delivery almost as important as character writing if not more important. The best character can be ruined by really bad character delivery.

There is no such thing as a bad character.
Only bad writing, acting, implementation and directing.

Scarlet could be an amazing character, but almost all of us wouldn’t know that because they implement her in such a shoehorn fashion that we barely learn anything about her, or the story she’s suppose to be carrying, as well as when we do see her it’s just done so…poorly.
Replace her with an Elder dragon or Mursaat, it would still be bad because it’s not the characters that ruins stories, it’s the people making the stories.

My guess for the “Do Not Touch” pillars is that Scarlet is trying to use them to harness the magic leaking from the ley lines.

It also makes sense that Tequatl gained his new power by essentially replacing Zhaitan and is consuming much larger amounts of magic than he previously was.

Scarlet knows the power of the dragon energies, sees what it did to Tequatl, and possibly wants to channel it all to herself. To do this would likely require the deaths of the elder dragons, since they are the natural force that consumes excessive magic. Maybe Scarlet really wants to kill the remaining elder dragons, and plans to trick us to achieve her goal.

hardy.7469:

There is no such thing as a bad character.
Only bad writing, acting, implementation and directing.

Scarlet could be an amazing character, but almost all of us wouldn’t know that because they implement her in such a shoehorn fashion that we barely learn anything about her, or the story she’s suppose to be carrying, as well as when we do see her it’s just done so…poorly.
Replace her with an Elder dragon or Mursaat, it would still be bad because it’s not the characters that ruins stories, it’s the people making the stories.

Way to try to hijack a thread. I thought this thread was supposed to be about Scarlet lore, not Scarlet hate. Was I wrong? Don’t we have enough Scarlet hate threads? Do we really need to make this thread about Scarlet hate also?

Venbloodblade.1093:

I’ve read/skimmed the majority of this thread, so excuse me if this has been brought up;
Has anyone else had the thought that during her out-of-body-experience, Scarlet came to realize she’s living in a game?
I mean, we’re talking about someone who we believe has explored the very fabric of the (her) universe, is it so hard to believe she might have come to figure out what the world of Tyria really is?
January content – “Scarlet Breaks the 4th Wall”
…….I’m semi-serious.

Maybe she’s just a copper top, she does have red hair. Where’s Morpheus when you need him.

Now we have it: The next four updates will be concluding the “Scarlet Arc” or at least what they percieve to be the arc to be.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/living-world-2013-the-year-in-review/

They said themselves that they have not mentioned her intentions nor her motivation.
However they mention that the “Do not touch” towers will play a role in the upcomming releases.

What does that indicate? Well that mostly every piece has been set and now we have to see how things fall together…

Now what is to be expected?

For now everything was building up to… well… something. As this thread proves there are a lot of direction the story can unfold. Personal gain, as well as mislead genius. All bets are still open.

Maybe we should conclude our theories here and get it together to form the more likely.

While i really enjoy Konigs idea, i think he is in too deep. While his assertion makes sense, i do not hold the writing team to that regard, however i would applaud them if they went to the lenghts he went with his theory.
That said, i recon with something more… simple.

In my opinion we will see how things fit together, but we will get at least one if not two major reveals that will come out of left field. Things no one really expected and to be honest, i do not think it will be easy to swallow.

btw. in my opinion this thread should be stickied

What I really want to see, is that they switch her from villain to anti-hero . I’d love to see them take the story in a direction where Scarlet is actually forcing a change in either the timeline (I like the idea of her being a time traveler), or a change in the evolution of these factions, in an attempt to fight the Elder Dragons. It would be a great twist if eventually we end up on the same side as Scarlet, fighting side by side.

That’s what I want to see. Not what I expect.

New Data to craft theories in the new “story-dungeon” (they could have given us that with the last update, though)

- Scarlet used an Asura computer (yep, appearently they actually work like a database) to calculate the most sufficent elemtent for her plan: Air and Asura tech —> Aetherblades

- If you talk to braham afterwards he tells you that she studied under a lot of “magic” teachers. Which is actually new to me, since we only know of teachers who applie wisdom and mortal feats (tactics, knowledge, etc.) which would work with her engineer background.
Though it could imply that she also studied magic to understand it.

- She was studied by the Asura, which was the reason why she was allowed to learn from them. They wanted to create a plant based “intelligence” drug, based upon her.
Backfired because of her ego.

- Rox says she is definetly an engineer, good with iron and gears and some magic knowledge (further implying her broad understanding of “everything”?)

- If you are an Order Member, you can talk to the Norn, who reveals that Scarlet is “scouting the mists”, which gives further weight to theory that the whole world is just a piece of the mist itself. It could also tap into the fractal theory (the world itself repeats so much, because it is a fractal and we are mearly visitors etc.. though highly unliekly)

- They think her Base might be located in the Mists

- Scarlet deems humans as “annoying” and always in their way (i was playing a human, if you are a different race, tell me if you got another mention), if you are looking up Watchknight data

- Fun fact: Kashmeer was naked the whole time

Just some quick things which might help

Jaken.6801:

- Scarlet deems humans as “annoying” and always in their way (i was playing a human, if you are a different race, tell me if you got another mention), if you are looking up Watchknight data

Was sylvari, said same thing.

The bit about the Mists is interesting there…

I hope we never fight Scarlet in the mists. Even if we kill her the devs can bring her back at any time by saying we’d only killed a reflection of the real Scarlet.

Well it would be a decent way to make killing Scarlet a permanent dungeon/event/fractal. The Mists creating copies of her for us to slaughter to our hearts content.

If we could intentionally trap Scarlet in a timelooping tiny boss fractal for all eternity from where she will neverget out, i would be happy. Nothing better a punishment than to make her a milking cow of loot while also make her suffer for all eternity for her crimes.

I wanted to know what we made in Scarlet’s forge personally. We take parts and pieces of all Scarlet’s alliances and creations, throw them all into her forge, a shiny ball of something comes out, and Marjory runs off with it before we had a chance to study it. The one item that might have possible gave us some insight of what Scarlet is planning… gone in a second.

Also, I found them mentioning that the Nightmare Plant could possibly have intelligence interesting. Then, of course, we blew it up. So that was a bit of a dead end.

Though, the part about her base possible being in the Mist, and her scouting it, is really fascinating. Maybe we are over thinking her plans a bit. In her short story, after her talk with the Pale Tree, she walked past the Pale Tree and deeper into the void. Maybe she saw or connected with something out there… in the darkness of the void? I guess time will only tell on that part.

Just posted this in response to someone in the “Massively talks about Scarlet’s problems” thread, and thought it might interest people here as well:

(The) fact that ArenaNet has made a big deal out of Scarlet’s relationship with the Dream and Nightmare makes me think that that’s going to prove quite important as we move towards endgame. I suspect it’ll turn out that she has some form of magitechnological device that blocks the Dream out for her, possibly supplied by the Inquest, allowing her to bypass the meditation regime it takes to achieve Soundlessness naturally.

Alternatively, consider the possibility that she hasn’t succeeded in blocking it out at all. A component of her insanity could easily be due to the conflict between her conscious mind rejecting her Dream, and the insistent voice that is constantly trying to return her to her Wyld Hunt.

In fact, come to think on it, a common criticism leveled against her is… how is it that someone so bat-kitten-crazy can manage to be such a consummate diplomat offscreen? What if it turns out that Caera’s Wyld Hunt had been to be the diplomat to unite the races and factions of Tyria against their common enemies? Perhaps the times when she is working to bring disparate factions together are the only times she can regain her sanity – because those are the times when she is acting according to her Wyld Hunt, however twisted her motives and goals may be from what the Dream actually wants her to do?

draxynnic.3719:

In fact, come to think on it, a common criticism leveled against her is… how is it that someone so bat-kitten-crazy can manage to be such a consummate diplomat offscreen? What if it turns out that Caera’s Wyld Hunt had been to be the diplomat to unite the races and factions of Tyria against their common enemies? Perhaps the times when she is working to bring disparate factions together are the only times she can regain her sanity – because those are the times when she is acting according to her Wyld Hunt, however twisted her motives and goals may be from what the Dream actually wants her to do?

This is why I like her. She is essentially dissolving the in game racism I hate. Lions arch did it somewhat before her, but on a small scale. By being educated in the Asuran system and other racial education systems… she is showing to all that anyone can do anything no matter what one race (Asura) or another says.

Also further making GW 2 less and less human only as GW 1 once was. This also is a big experiment to see how we as humans in real life really act as a whole to one another and other living things.

In real life, we are like Asura, not so much a care for our environment or other species. Asura in GW 2 are analogous to us. Scarlet though being a destructive force on par of dragons, actually has been giving tech to the races that the races such as Asura and Priory humans should have been giving to them all along.

Asura are more like us in ways and the humans in game are like us.

Scarlet although evil, has been doing at least one good thing in it all.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Scarlet though being a destructive force on par of dragons, actually has been giving tech to the races that the races such as Asura and Priory humans should have been giving to them all along.

What Tech did she give to the Asura? Didn’t she only study for her own personal gain? And lets not forget that sharing technology with various races is not a good act. The Krait for example are completely evil and extremely dangerous. Giving them technology, or helping them evolve, is in no way a good act.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It was far from “all about Scarlet” – I wish people would stop over dramatizing Scarlet. She may be a terrible character at least in presentation, but not as much as folks claim is actually tied to her.

Well, she was behind almost every Living Story threat, was she not? She created the Molten Alliance, masterminded the Dragon Bash assassination (with follow-up dungeon, as she runs the Aetherblades), she crashed the Jubilee, she set up the facility in Twilight Arbor, she created the toxic alliance, and she was instrumental in the Thaumanova melt-down.

The only significant non-Scarlet Living Story threat there’s been has been Tequatl’s increase in power.

Jaken.6801:

Now we have it: The next four updates will be concluding the “Scarlet Arc” or at least what they percieve to be the arc to be.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/living-world-2013-the-year-in-review/

Two more months after December, then… two more months. Could be worse.

I guess I can take a spin at this.

My theory. Scarlet is not of Tyria. Ceara is dead. When Ceara looked into everything she didn’t just go mad. She died. She was removed from her body, unable to return. Scarlet is a completely different entity entirely from Ceara. Who saw someone foolish enough to try and comprehend the workings of the universe and took that as an opportunity to hijack the body.

Scarlet is an Entity who already knows the outcome of what was to happen. But once She became a part of Tyria she was disconnected from the knowledge she once had. Still retraining most of it, but no longer with the foresight she once enjoyed. Rather then getting upset, she saw this as an opportunity to create a future she no longer had the ability to predict. To truly be a part of the world, rather then just an observer.

Scarlet needs no reason beyond pure enjoyment to be a part of the world. Its a completely new experience and everything about the world is fresh. To be a part of something has been an experience she couldn’t have dreamed of. And playing the part of the villain was just too tempting for an entity who already knew the previous outcome would lead to the dragons eventual defeat. So why not even the odds and increase the chaos of the world.

She wants to weaken the world’s immune system so the virus can take over. But she doesn’t care if the plan succeeds or not. She just wants to change the path of the world’s fate before she takes her exit from the world.

At least that is my theory, its probably not even close and far less interesting.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It was far from “all about Scarlet” – I wish people would stop over dramatizing Scarlet. She may be a terrible character at least in presentation, but not as much as folks claim is actually tied to her.

Well, she was behind almost every Living Story threat, was she not? She created the Molten Alliance, masterminded the Dragon Bash assassination (with follow-up dungeon, as she runs the Aetherblades), she crashed the Jubilee, she set up the facility in Twilight Arbor, she created the toxic alliance, and she was instrumental in the Thaumanova melt-down.

The only significant non-Scarlet Living Story threat there’s been has been Tequatl’s increase in power.

I’m not saying that Scarlet isn’t behind most of the Living Story (you missed the Super Adventure Box as non-Scarlet related, btw; And Lost Shores, Halloween, and Wintersday), just that the Thaumanova Reactor wasn’t “all about Scarlet.” She was hardly instrumental in the Thaumanova meltdown – she was there, and she didn’t prevent it. But that’s all we’re really told about her involvement. Unless you’ve seen something I haven’t…?

There was that “things only started going bad after the consultant arrived” line from the Inquest at the start.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Scarlet though being a destructive force on par of dragons, actually has been giving tech to the races that the races such as Asura and Priory humans should have been giving to them all along.

What Tech did she give to the Asura? Didn’t she only study for her own personal gain? And lets not forget that sharing technology with various races is not a good act. The Krait for example are completely evil and extremely dangerous. Giving them technology, or helping them evolve, is in no way a good act.

You misread that line. Missing a comma in there…

Scarlet though, being a destructive force on par of dragons, actually has been giving tech to the races, that races such as Asura and Priory humans should have been giving to them all along.

What I’m saying is she is evening the playing field as the other poster said above. Really only Humans (DR/LA/priory/whispers), Charr and Asura are the three most highly advanced races in the game. Scarlet just gave tech in this LS to krait (toxin making tech), flame charr (metallurgy and a computer), dredge (same as flame charr) and even some NC Sylvari (toxin making tech).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I’m not saying that Scarlet isn’t behind most of the Living Story (you missed the Super Adventure Box as non-Scarlet related, btw; And Lost Shores, Halloween, and Wintersday), just that the Thaumanova Reactor wasn’t “all about Scarlet.” She was hardly instrumental in the Thaumanova meltdown – she was there, and she didn’t prevent it. But that’s all we’re really told about her involvement. Unless you’ve seen something I haven’t…?

Ahh, I did forget Lost Shores, though the others I’d excluded for being primary light-hearted (and not really focused on ‘threat’). You’re right, though, there were at least a few releases that haven’t featured her.

I was going by her dialogue in Thaumanova; “Reactor approaching critical… my work here is done!”, she announces, which really implies to me she had a significant hand in it. More significant than the Inquest, for example, who scarcely have any dialogue at all.

She also says, “Sorry about all the death, and portal pandemonium”, which seems to back me up. She wouldn’t sarcastically apologise if she hadn’t done it herself. This was really the only background on the Thaumanova meltdown that we actually got.

The Inquest have at least as many lines as Scarlet herself. They’re just easy to miss. The wiki doesn’t seem to have them either.

Even if Scarlet caused the reactor meltdown, the fractal is still not “all about her” which was the original point I was making. She was involved, yes, but the spotlight wasn’t (solely) on her.

Which is odd for ArenaNet, but welcomed.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Scarlet though being a destructive force on par of dragons, actually has been giving tech to the races that the races such as Asura and Priory humans should have been giving to them all along.

What Tech did she give to the Asura? Didn’t she only study for her own personal gain? And lets not forget that sharing technology with various races is not a good act. The Krait for example are completely evil and extremely dangerous. Giving them technology, or helping them evolve, is in no way a good act.

You misread that line. Missing a comma in there…

Scarlet though, being a destructive force on par of dragons, actually has been giving tech to the races, that races such as Asura and Priory humans should have been giving to them all along.

What I’m saying is she is evening the playing field as the other poster said above. Really only Humans (DR/LA/priory/whispers), Charr and Asura are the three most highly advanced races in the game. Scarlet just gave tech in this LS to krait (toxin making tech), flame charr (metallurgy and a computer), dredge (same as flame charr) and even some NC Sylvari (toxin making tech).

You seem to have this twisted idea that this is a good thing.

Races and factions such as the krait, the dredge commissars, the Flame Legion and the Nightmare Court are not excluded from the Tyrian community due to prejudice, they’re excluded because they maintain a hostile stance towards the Tyrian community. We’re not talking about technology transfers to postwar South-East Asia to allow countries to modernise and join the developing world here, we’re talking about the equivalent of providing F-22s to Somali pirates.

draxynnic.3719:

Races and factions such as the krait, the dredge commissars, the Flame Legion and the Nightmare Court are not excluded from the Tyrian community due to prejudice, they’re excluded because they maintain a hostile stance towards the Tyrian community.

Or to put it more bluntly, The Krait are completely, utterly and irredeemably evil. It’s not a matter of "not getting along’ or having ‘differences’. They are evil. As evil as can be. Not subjectively, but objectively.

Actually, the Krait are the most potentially redeemable of the group, since they’re a case where it could simply be a case of being raised in a bloodthirsty society where they don’t know better, but where they may be entirely different if raised differently. Hence why Ventari’s teachings said that the krait hatchlings should not be slaughtered out of hand.

The Flame Legion charr could be said to be trapped by history and the unwillingness of the other legions to let them live that history down… but on the other hand, if the Flame Legion had maintained their independence without maintaining a constant state of warfare with the other legions, their relations may well have normalised by now. Nevertheless, what we have is a legion who has all but explicitly enslaved half of the population (by gender), which has a track record of maintaining control through religions that they know are false, and which has been waging a decades-old campaign to dominate the other legions. Their ostracism and persecution by the other legions is the result of their own actions, actions which built up so much enmity that, when push comes to shove, the other legions found forming a peace and tentative alliance with humans to be more palatable. That had to take some doing.

The dredge moletariate are, basically, North Korea. Yes, their history of enslavement is tragic, but after having been freed with assistance from other races, the moleteriate created a Orwellian regime that relied on propaganda and instilling xenophobia to remain in control, waging unnecessary wars with other races to give their people a common enemy to distract them from injustices at home. While the Flame Legion at least have the excuse of being stuck in circumstances where their enemy may not accept an honourable ceasefire, we have seen that dredge who rebel against those who enslave them, Stone Summit and moleteriate alike, can work together with, and be accepted by, other races (our PCs at least, who in the Personal Story have been shown to be influential enough individuals that, if the dredge wished peace, it could probably be arranged through the PCs). I’d love to see the dredge become equal citizens of Tyria with the other major races (they’ll never be playable for balance reasons, but storywise…) but that can never happen with the moleteriate in control, at least not without major changes in the way they think. The moleteriate is a despotic regime that relies on needless foreign wars to hide its total disregard for the welfare of its people.

The Nightmare Court is the worst of all, since its members were all once members of a society that ascribed to higher ideals, who have turned their backs on those ideals to build a subculture based on torturing innocent beings for their twisted ideology. At best, a Nightmare Court member is a religious fanatic who believes the ends justify the means, or is genuinely insane, their mind so broken by the abuse they have received at the hands of other courtiers that they know no better than to continue those torments on others. at worst they are simple sadists for whom the philosophy of the Nightmare gives a thin justification for the tortures they were itching to inflict anyway.

Each of these groups stands apart from the “good” factions not because of some form of Fantasy Racism, but because each has chosen, of their own free will, to engage in acts of warfare and terrorism against the “good” factions, and refuses to come to any settlement that does not mean the total subjugation or outright genocide of those they are warring against.

Furthermore when it comes to Scarlet’s technology transfers – we’re not talking about improved farming equipment, domestic conveniences, or infrastructure for peaceful economic development that raises the quality of life of their civilians here. She’s supplying them with weapons that are intended only to kill and maim. The implication that she’s doing nothing more than humans, asura and charr should already have done in the name of international good relations would be the equivalent of if Britain and France, on having developed the tank in World War 1, went to Germany and said “Hey, we’ve developed this new weapon that we were hoping would allow us to bring a decisive end to the war, but y’know, we decided it’d be more sporting if we were to give it to you too just to keep things fair!”

Seriously, Yumiko it seems like you’re trying to present Scarlet as the heroine here, and even the most criticism-oblivious thinking-Scarlet-is-the-best-thing-since-sliced-bread ArenaNet writer would probably be shocked at that suggestion. Draco In Leather Pants, anyone?

draxynnic.3719:

Draco In Leather Pants, anyone?

Off-topic, but that fanon picture of Sephiroth is hilarious.

draxynnic.3719:

Actually, the Krait are the most potentially redeemable of the group,

“The krait have always been an unapologetically evil race. While we take pains in many instances to provide two sides to any story and to show that even evil races, cultures, and characters have good reasons for their actions, the krait were designed to be straightforwardly “black hat.” We approached their focus on religion very cautiously, knowing that the word “prophets” would bring to mind modern religious references. It is important to note that we in no way want to compare krait fanaticism to any real-world faith. The prophets of the krait are false religious figures invented by a ruling priest caste to maintain their control. No part of the krait culture or religion is based on, or intended to resemble, any real-world parallel.”

The Thaumanova story mode was about Scarlet, Kiel, and Dessa. Within the repeatable fractal we only learn about Scarlet and the Inquest but we actually learn nothing new about the Inquest so it all about Scarlet and her research. In fact Scarlet didn’t even need to be there to taunt everyone, the head researchers could have told us all the plot, but she just couldn’t help being such a nemesis again.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

draxynnic.3719:

Actually, the Krait are the most potentially redeemable of the group,

“The krait have always been an unapologetically evil race. While we take pains in many instances to provide two sides to any story and to show that even evil races, cultures, and characters have good reasons for their actions, the krait were designed to be straightforwardly “black hat.” We approached their focus on religion very cautiously, knowing that the word “prophets” would bring to mind modern religious references. It is important to note that we in no way want to compare krait fanaticism to any real-world faith. The prophets of the krait are false religious figures invented by a ruling priest caste to maintain their control. No part of the krait culture or religion is based on, or intended to resemble, any real-world parallel.”

This is actually kinda my point.

Members of each of the other factions affiliated with Scarlet have had the opportunity to be, well, not evil. It’s possibly arguable with the Flame Legion, but defection back does seem to be a possibility, and while an ex-shaman may have a hard time among the charr, once defected they can move outside of charr territory and make a new life elsewhere. Dredge could have joined the revolution rather than remaining with their corrupt regime. From the recent interview, however much the NC have tried to change this, thus far every sylvari has been born as Dream sylvari.

The krait, however… are evil because that’s literally all they’ve ever known. There is no enclave of non-evil krait that we know of that can show them another way, no alternative krait culture that could allow them to escape the ingrained hatred of their own. The others, at some level, have all made a choice to become what they are… the krait have no alternative options short of hermitage.

Perhaps this is because Cadeyrne was right and they are, in fact, inherently evil. But the distinction is that the others are all adversaries because at some level they’ve chosen to be, while for the krait they’ve never had the opportunity to be otherwise.

It appears my old post did not get put up…

@Malafide: While the writers originally itnended the krait to be a “pure evil” race, this is not because of the krait’s nature but because of its nurture. ArenaNet had from the very beginning created a scapegoat to leave that pitch black mentality for the krait in the form of the very thing that makes them evil in the first place – their unquestioning fanaticism to what the Oratuss say. If they ever wanted to make them not-evil they can do it with reasonable ease – and they’ve already began playing this card it seems with the Toxic Alliance, seeing as we’ve seen two Oratuss aiding Scarlet and defending the Tower of Nightmares (or was it three?). Besides, ArenaNet also said that they wanted the centaurs to be a pitch black race with no or few redeeming qualities, however they also gave them a scapegoat to become good (modniir enslavement) and even turned back on that through Qindova in Lion’s Arch.

@Stooperdale: There’s a lot more than just Scarlet’s involvement even in the explorable version, which is also in the story version. Subject 6 (reminds you of Subject 7 perhaps?), the anomaly, and though it’s said through Scarlet, we have the nature of the explosion for Thaumanova – that the Inquest went from experimenting on chaos magic to experimenting with dragon energies and doing so on top of the intersection of ley lines resulted in said meltdown.

Just because Scarlet was there doesn’t mean “it’s all about Scarlet” which is exactly my point. Scarlet was there just because ArenaNet apparently felt the need to make Scarlet the one who had involvement with the Thaumanova’s explosion. Her presence is actually insignificant compared to everything else learned – even that learned via Scarlet.

Would it suprise anyone if Kasmeer turned out to be Scarlet in disguise?

Did we ever find out why Scarlet wanted to kidnap the minstrel and hobotron at the Queen’s jubilee? Those guys are back in town but seemingly not offering any clues.

Stooperdale.3560:

Did we ever find out why Scarlet wanted to kidnap the minstrel and hobotron at the Queen’s jubilee? Those guys are back in town but seemingly not offering any clues.

Scarlet didn’t. A couple of Aetherblades picked them up because they seemed amusing. Scarlet just took their idea and ran a bit with it.

Ok, so I have spent almost 2 hours staring at a wall thinking of how Scarlet and everything we know so far fits into a story about defeating the dragons. I think I finally nailed it…

I’ll start with provable facts. We’ve known for awhile now that a race of giants called the giganticus lupicus existed before any of the other known races. We are also told that these giants disappeared for some reason. We know that the dragons woke up, give or take, 1000 years after that. We know that the human gods gave magic to all of tyria, and some 1200 years later Primordus awakens. Sound familiar?

Say Scarlet knows where these so called “magic leylines” actually are. I’ll assume, like we all have, that the DO NOT TOUCH pillars are a means to mapping them out, and that they point toward the elder dragons. If indeed that is true then we can speculate that the dragons feed off of magic. Now this is where it gets cyclical. If the dragons feed off of magic, then by giving magic to tyria the human gods had indirectly caused the dragons to wake from their slumber. This plays into the assumption that the giants knew how to stop the magic flow to the dragons, and that after they disappeared, for whatever reason, the magic flow was restored.

Put simply, my theory is this:  
We as the players will defeat Scarlet soon. She will, in fact, have the knowledge of how the dragons get their power and where they are approximately located. We will then find out that zhaitan is not dead and to defeat him we must figure out how to block his food source (magic). Welcome to guild wars 2 year two lol.

Of course I could also be entirely wrong. 2 hours well spent don’t ya think?

Not a bad hypothesis, I like it. However, we know so little about Giganticus Lupicus when they were still alive, that it is a bit difficult to speculate on their involvement.

Codename Shmo.6958:

Ok, so I have spent almost 2 hours staring at a wall thinking of how Scarlet and everything we know so far fits into a story about defeating the dragons.

I’m going to stop you right there. Thing is, Scott McGough – one of the lead writers for the Living Story – has explicitly stated that Scarlet is to be an intermission between the story about the dragons.

In other words, there is no need – nor likelihood – that Scarlet is (directly) tied to the story of defeating the Elder Dragons. At best, she will lead us into the next dragon plot, at worst (and most likely IMHO though I hold no backing) she will simply be ended and the next update we have “dragon attacks!/attack dragons!” plot going.

I’ll start with provable facts. We’ve known for awhile now that a race of giants called the giganticus lupicus existed before any of the other known races. We are also told that these giants disappeared for some reason. We know that the dragons woke up, give or take, 1000 years after that. We know that the human gods gave magic to all of tyria, and some 1200 years later Primordus awakens.

Minor correction: The Giganticus Lupicus – one of which we see in Arah – went extinct due to the Elder Dragons. The Elder Dragons were awake around 10,000 BE (though whether or not this is the last awakening is called into question by some such as myself due to certain lines about the surviving races’ known and implied history, the Priory at least believe it was). The Giganticus Lupicus found in Arah, in fact, is a Risen from the previous awakening cycle. Since it wasn’t found in the past 1,500 years that humanity has been on continental Tyria, it is likely it was left undisturbed somewhere other than Arah, and traveled there upon Zhaitan’s awakening (or as its harbinger, like Drakkar, Svanir, and the Great Destroyer were).

Secondly, technically speaking the Six Gods did not give magic to the world but returned magic to the world as it was sealed within the Bloodstones – or rather, most of it was. Some was absorbed by the Elder Dragons and released from them over the millenniums.

Say Scarlet knows where these so called “magic leylines” actually are. I’ll assume, like we all have, that the DO NOT TOUCH pillars are a means to mapping them out, and that they point toward the elder dragons. If indeed that is true then we can speculate that the dragons feed off of magic. Now this is where it gets cyclical. If the dragons feed off of magic, then by giving magic to tyria the human gods had indirectly caused the dragons to wake from their slumber. This plays into the assumption that the giants knew how to stop the magic flow to the dragons, and that after they disappeared, for whatever reason, the magic flow was restored.

I won’t touch the DO NOT TOUCH towers (no pun intended) but I’d like to clarify even more here:

We know that the Elder Dragons consume magic. This is a proven fact. And it’s also known that while they hibernate, they release this magic they consume in a non-hostile manner (though while awake, they can release it in a hostile manner that invokes corruption and enslavement).

As to the gods unintentionally wakign the dragons – this is also indirectly proven, as per the above that the dragons do indeed consume dragon and the stated fact that they awaken when magic rises to a certain point. However, it cannot be certain that they if magic was left untouched (by both the gods who released magic, and the Seers who made the Bloodstone) that the Elder Dragons wouldn’t have awakened at this time – according to Varra Skylark, the Elder Dragons’ last awakening was during the last time a star was born – which was 10,000 years ago (though whether or not this is accurate is called into question for reasons mentioned before about when the last dragon rise was, the fact she based this on ancient jotun records, there was the magic alteration mentioned, and finally the fact that no one has had a chance to make the same observations since the fall of the jotun empire which was unknown time ago – plus during GW1, there are constant mentions of star alterations ).

It’s kind of humorous how you are speculating all the right things, but in the wrong direction. I suggest you read up on the wiki’s articles for magic and the Bloodstone. And the Elder Dragons’ history.

A list of relevant links to above post (since character limit was too long):

• Interview where Scott made said mention (IIRC it’s this one at least): http://wartower.tumblr.com/post/60458277036/this-lorespecial-is-about-scarlet-briar-the-evil
• Wiki article on magic’s history (false and truth): http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic (note: the “Nature and Practice” may or may not contain fallible information – it was written by someone who often is mistaken or lacking information and I never went around to fact-checking it); also includes the history of the Bloodstone, more or less.
• Wiki article on Elder Dragons’ nature (warning: may be out of date): http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon
• Interview mentioning the origins of the GL we meet in Arah: http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm
• Interview and response (with another interview included more responses to questions raised by first) about magic’s nature: http://esprits-dorr.fr/node/261 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview/page/3#post2821776 http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/forum/page/1/m/2737230/viewthread/9902543-2rps-lore-interview-arenanet/post/56212770#p56212770
• Relevant dialogues:
  • http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ruined_City_of_Arah_%28explorable%29#Jotun – mention of the stars’ formation and how they mark passing of ages, and proclaimed last ED rise was 10,000 years prior when previous star was formed (thus previous age occured)
  • http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ruined_City_of_Arah_%28explorable%29#Seer – true origins of the Bloodstone revealed
  • http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bad_Blood#Dialogues – one of the few lines which imply the proclaimed time of the last ED rise may not be entirely true.

There’s more, but mainly just repetitions of the same thing with small tidbits added, or that I cannot think of atm.

Having read just about everything in one go, I come up with the following:

Scarlet made the Inquest build the Thaumanova Reactor, or at least use it for her own plans. (She mentions in the Fractal about the help they were mapping out the ley lines.) Whether by timetravel or not.

Nothing is failure unless you learn from it.

Scarlet mentions this also in the Fractal: At least now we know how NOT to do this kind of experiments in the future.

The nightmare tower: She gained a toxine, more insight on our personal story and (how can it be I haven’t read this anywhere yet) an antigen to her alchemic brew.

So far Scarlet has learned, experimented, created and above all GAINED from all Racial Schools/Industries as well as our own personal story.

She gained information, knowledge, put it to use, failed and gained new knowledge for the future. BUT, she also gained more and more resources for her ultimate plan. In the form of alliances (bought, enslaved, convinced and misled) in her failures she ran off with the technology created/stolen etc. etc. that includes OUR work to stop her. (like the antigen)

I came to believe her insanity is part of the Dream that is still in her mind, but this must be something so big, so emotional, that it caused her to run away from it. Her Dream might very well be a Wyld Hunt or something simular that she knows she will have to sacrifice her own life for and is now desperately trying to find a different way that does not involve her death. As Scarlet being a ‘fruit’ of the Pale Tree keep in mind that whatever knowledge Scarlet has (and gains) is and will be shared with if not preceded by the Pale Tree and those that will follow (IIRC each Sylvari learns from the lives each individual from previous generations led)

The Pale Tree’s warning for the huge effects Scarlets actions will have on the world if she continued with the experiment holds a bad omen for Tyria (and a good one for gamers)

Whatever Scarlet’s plan is, it will hasten the rise of new dragon related dangers due to their symbotic (symbantic?) relationship to magic. Even if her plans have nothing to do with awakening Dragons themselves…

As to liking her or not:
Scarlet is a perfect character of which the psychological map is like chocolatechip cupcakes with extra icing and sugary flakes.
A good example of an underappreciated narcistic genius with too little a brain to maintain in control of all that intelligence. (plot returns: Toxine might be step 1 to a cure to help her regain sanity, but only ofcourse after she gave birth to hell)

Someone as brilliant as Scarlet will be impossible to kill by anything us players have at our disposal right now. I expect we won’t kill her, or some new danger for us all ends her reign for us.

Scarlet learning about the ley lines is presented as accidental. If her own words are to be believed then she warned the Inquest not to experiment with chaos magic (the original purpose of the Inquest lab at Thaumanova) and dragon energy, but said experiments resulted in the reactor meltdown (which she didn’t bother preventing thus was “her fault/doing”) that led to the discovery of ley lines.

And what antigen to her “chemical brew” are you talking about? The thing we make in her forge which dispells the barrier around the heart? Because that’s no antigen.