at the end of the source of orr when you go to collect your reward if you talk to trahearne after recieveing your reward and say to him “you should be overjoyed your wyld hunt is complete”, he responds with “Yes but I find myself with a bigger, more daunting task: shepherding the pact through five impossible victories over the elder dragons themselves”
Does this mean that all story quests from here on out will be including trahearne or will he become kind of a more behind the lines leader and we’ll get to meet some “better” heroes?
Meh. He was fine. I liked him well enough he just wasn’t anything interesting(never understood the hate there). I do think his Wyld Hunt is over and he should let others take the lead with the other dragons. Heck if you’re a sylvari that’s your Wyld Hunt. Caithe’s too I think?
Anyway I would like to see some humans take a bigger lead. They’re pretty downtrodden right now and it’d be great if they were able to regain some of their former glory.
I actually totally thought Destiny’s Edge would have a bigger show in the main story not just the dungeons. I’d love to see more of them.
Will Trahearne lead the Pact against the other EDs? I suspect yes. He is the Pact’s Marshal.
Will he play as big a role as he did against Zhaitan? I suspect not. With Orr, the fight was a very personal one for Trahearne. Cleansing Orr had been the reason for his existance since he was born and until proded along by the Player Character, one he considered impossible.
With the other EDs, I suspect you will see other characters and groups involved. Trahearne and the other pact commanders will almost certianly play a role as the Pact’s purpose is to fight the EDs.
However I dont expect that fighting the other dragons will just be a rinse/repeat of Zhaitan. Zhaitan we fought with a direct invasion against the center of his power and crippled him. The other dragons will probably have their own unique challanges we have to overcome. The story will get rather dull otherwise.
We’ll see, but in my book, it would be best if Trahearne is never seen or mentioned again. I don’t want another Gwen fiasko, were an already unlikeable character get’s pushed into the spotlight and ends up getting called greastest hero of humanity (in Gwen’s case) or Tyria (in Trahearne’s case).
They can kill him off (off-screen please) or let him live, I don’t care, as long as he never ever shows up in the storyline again.
More Tybalts and Forgals please, less Trahearnes and Sierans.
You kidding me, Sieran kicks everyone’s kitten in the loveable catagory! Everyone becomes a Sieran!
If loveable is another word for annoying or brain-damaged, then yes.
I was afraid of Forgal though… I mean, have you seen his eyes? They’re like bright pink and don’t face the right direction.
I’d put Sieran on a tier just above Tybalt. You can’t say he was any less damaged.
Meh. He was fine. I liked him well enough he just wasn’t anything interesting(never understood the hate there).
Will Trahearne lead the Pact against the other EDs? I suspect yes. He is the Pact’s Marshal.
Will he play as big a role as he did against Zhaitan? I suspect not. With Orr, the fight was a very personal one for Trahearne. Cleansing Orr had been the reason for his existance since he was born and until proded along by the Player Character, one he considered impossible.
With the other EDs, I suspect you will see other characters and groups involved. Trahearne and the other pact commanders will almost certianly play a role as the Pact’s purpose is to fight the EDs.
However I dont expect that fighting the other dragons will just be a rinse/repeat of Zhaitan. Zhaitan we fought with a direct invasion against the center of his power and crippled him. The other dragons will probably have their own unique challanges we have to overcome. The story will get rather dull otherwise.
Said everything I would have already.
I don’t want another Gwen fiasko, were an already unlikeable character get’s pushed into the spotlight and ends up getting called greastest hero of humanity (in Gwen’s case) or Tyria (in Trahearne’s case).
Trahearne’s never called a great hero, actually. It’s you, the commander, who led the Pact to victory against Zhaitan.
You should pay more attention to NPC dialogue during personal stories. I mean, you’re called “The Dragonslayer” by a group of partying norn, while Trahearne’s just “the marshal” to them.
We’ll see, but in my book, it would be best if Trahearne is never seen or mentioned again. I don’t want another Gwen fiasko, were an already unlikeable character get’s pushed into the spotlight and ends up getting called greastest hero of humanity (in Gwen’s case) or Tyria (in Trahearne’s case).
They can kill him off (off-screen please) or let him live, I don’t care, as long as he never ever shows up in the storyline again.
More Tybalts and Forgals please, less Trahearnes and Sierans.
Who on earth hates Gwen. Gwen is possibly one of my beloved NPC’s from GW.
Did you not play Prophecies and have her follow you around with her flute and be all annoying like.
You should pay more attention to NPC dialogue during personal stories. I mean, you’re called “The Dragonslayer” by a group of partying norn, while Trahearne’s just “the marshal” to them.
You misunderstood me, I did not say, that it happened (it only did in Gwen’s case), I just said, I don’t want it to happen.
Who on earth hates Gwen. Gwen is possibly one of my beloved NPC’s from GW.
Did you not play Prophecies and have her follow you around with her flute and be all annoying like.
I played Prophecies and Eye of the North, and because I did that, I can not comprehend how anyone could like her. One of the worst fictional characters in history.
But to quote myself:
“Not only did she annoy me in Prophecies, no she came back for EotN, even more annyoing than ever. For me, she stands for everything I disliked about Ascalon. Yes I started playing GW1 with Prophecies, I saw the destruction of the land by the Charr. But unlike 99% of the players, I had no emotional attachment to the country. I always prefered the much more unique Kryta (which is sadly ascalonified in GW2). I even liked the Charr more than the Ascalonians.
I did not care what happened to Ascalon after I was gone, since from my point of view, they were just so generic. And then came Gwen, never shutting up about the Charr and how her pain and loss was worse than anyones. I think Kieran Thackeray phrased it well, when he said that all of them suffered.
But you know what, I was annoyed by Gwen, but I did not hate her… yet. It wasn’t until I read Ghost of Ascalon that I developed a burning hatred for that witch, that can never be extinguished. In that book, I think it’s either Riona or Dougal who said it, it is mentioned that Gwen is the greatest hero of humanity.
Wham! What a lie! What a freaking lie! Gwen did nothing! Nothing, that is even remotely close to what my character did. Or Togo, or Kormir or 50% of the human NPCs in GW1. "
That’s just a part of my much longer rant about Gwen.
To be fair (and to continue to derail this thread a little, sorry) – Gwen is a hero for certain people with connections to Ascalon and a particular hatred of the charr. She’s a hero for that viewpoint. Ebonhawkers would obviously see her as a hero, because she represents determination, pride and survival in the face of invading monsters. She represents standing against the charr no matter what, with no compromise. For other Ascalonians, Gwen could be an unfortunate figure in their history who delayed peace by hundreds of years through her stubborn hatred.
I think she works well as a historical figure, and I think that only certain characters laud her as a hero. I can understand your frustration, but it’s a perspective thing; I at least don’t think the games/lore imply she is unambiguously wonderful.
As for Trahearne, I’m with Lutinz and Konig, I think it makes sense for Trahearne to remain Marshal of the Pact (unless someone extremely qualified turns up suddenly), but Orr was his area of expertise. As a scholar and strategist he should see where someone else’s expertise would make them a better field commander than him. I do feel a little bad for the guy, he started with a near-impossible Wyld Hunt and now having completed it he’s basically got another, unofficial one he’ll feel obliged to follow through.
We’ll see, but in my book, it would be best if Trahearne is never seen or mentioned again. I don’t want another Gwen fiasko, were an already unlikeable character get’s pushed into the spotlight and ends up getting called greastest hero of humanity (in Gwen’s case) or Tyria (in Trahearne’s case).
They can kill him off (off-screen please) or let him live, I don’t care, as long as he never ever shows up in the storyline again.
More Tybalts and Forgals please, less Trahearnes and Sierans.Who on earth hates Gwen. Gwen is possibly one of my beloved NPC’s from GW.
Did you not play Prophecies and have her follow you around with her flute and be all annoying like.
I was okay with her in Prophecies, and I was glad to see her alive in EoTN… until she opened her mouth. Granted, I didn’t get very far into that game, but every time she’s around she’s just perpetually ticked off, and that got annoying real quick. And it’s not like I couldn’t sympathize with her or understand why she was ticked off, but after several missions… yeah, I couldn’t stand her.
She’s only really involved and really annoying in 3 missions in Eye of the North. Her involvement in the end cinematic of Destruction’s Depths she pretty much just brought up the idea that the Great Destroyer was the destroyer’s hive mind, and that destroying him would save the day, nothing annoying there. And you can always just ignore her combat text if it’s that bad, I don’t even remember what half of them are anymore. And in my mind the Eye of the North storyline didn’t develop her very well, but she slowly started becoming a bit more likeable through the Hearts of the North and the Underworld dialogues later.
I was personally extremely glad that they included a piece of the Guild Wars pre-searing world and brought it to back to life. I honestly have to say that I missed that little girl post-searing, and that the loss of her and the destruction of Ashford were the two things that devastated me after the Searing. Sure she was annoying, but so is my little cousin, and losing her would devastate me as well. So I honestly think ArenaNet got it right there.
I played Prophecies and Eye of the North, and because I did that, I can not comprehend how anyone could like her. One of the worst fictional characters in history.
I disagree. And the issue here is that your opinion is subjective (as is one’s on Trahearne). You are, in fact, the only person who I’ve seen said that the Prophecies Gwen annoyed them. Now, the EN Gwen I can see, and I fullheartedly agree with the WiK/HotN Gwen (why did they have to go and make her relapse after the EN quests were meant to be a “working out her problems” part? And why did I have to play the therapist?). But her being a hero is 100% understandable and makes sense.
Truth be told, I’m glad Gwen’s the captain who solidified Ebonhawke to be a fortress, and became hated by the charr as the Goremonger. You got a character who’s basically a case of Break the Cutie and shows she has issues, but overcomes them to greater hights. Yeah, it’s the same set up as Trahearne (except he came prepackaged broken), but it’s far better than a perfect hero beginning grand and becoming grander (imagine if Rurik didn’t die, and did manage to fulfill his goal of regathering strength and marching an army across the Shiverpeak Mountains, just to save Ascalon?). That would have been an annoying hero. A Gary Stue.
I disagree. And the issue here is that your opinion is subjective (as is one’s on Trahearne). You are, in fact, the only person who I’ve seen said that the Prophecies Gwen annoyed them. Now, the EN Gwen I can see, and I fullheartedly agree with the WiK/HotN Gwen (why did they have to go and make her relapse after the EN quests were meant to be a “working out her problems” part? And why did I have to play the therapist?). But her being a hero is 100% understandable and makes sense.
Truth be told, I’m glad Gwen’s the captain who solidified Ebonhawke to be a fortress, and became hated by the charr as the Goremonger. You got a character who’s basically a case of Break the Cutie and shows she has issues, but overcomes them to greater hights. Yeah, it’s the same set up as Trahearne (except he came prepackaged broken), but it’s far better than a perfect hero beginning grand and becoming grander (imagine if Rurik didn’t die, and did manage to fulfill his goal of regathering strength and marching an army across the Shiverpeak Mountains, just to save Ascalon?). That would have been an annoying hero. A Gary Stue.
While it does makes sense that she is remembered as a hero, still greatest hero of humanity? Sounds to me like she worked on some propaganda while sitting in Ebonhawke. And even the most air-headed Ascalonian should have had heard of the human hero. That one guy, who stopped wars, killed evil gods, saved thousands if nor millions of lives.
The problem is, the player never really got a title in GW1. Via a title the player can be addressed without revealing his/her gender (well atleast in english, in german it doesn’t work that way, but that is besides the point), as it is done in GW2.
Apparently the plans for GW1 were to make Devona and the gang the heroes, as substitute for the players. Well I don’t really like them all that much, but I could accept it. But then, they changed the plans giving Devona & friends got less to do with the following campaigns, until they were pretty much out of the narrative, replaced by heroes. Sounds good to me, I love the NF heroes, all of them are awesome (well except those Zaishen guys, they are kinda pointless but whatever, they don’t appear in the story). Sadly they just had to make Gwen a hero. Ugh, her presence almost overshadows all those likeable heroes like Vekk, Ogden, Jora, Pyre (or Brandor as he is called in the german dub… the only given name change that was ever made /shrug).
But that’s still okay, if they had just left Gwen alone, but nooooo, she is involved in the WiK, she has HotN and she is important for GoA. It’s like they obsevered me and picked out the character I like the least to give her a special treatment. x_X (Or my guild, none of us likes Gwen and that means over 30 people).
Why I see her as worse than Trahearne is pretty simple. Trahearne annoyed me in the Gw2 main storyline and he took some credit for things I did, but overall (as you mentioned) I still get the feeling, that the ending celebration is about me. However every deed I did in GW1, is forgotten. Not a single kitten is given about it. It’s gone. Blown away. And replaced by Gwen-worship. What the heck? This is why it hurts so much. I spent years playing those games. And all is gone. Oh I have the HoM. Whoopy-freaking-doo! Except that this HoM doesn’t look like the HoM I had. It’s just a generic ruin, with generic loot…
I don’t hate Trahaern, yet still I think it best to keep him as the general/Marshal of the Pact while our character is the frontline Commander in it, making us still the “Hero”.
Also, for the other Elder Dragon battles I’d like to see large-scale stuff like with the Lost Shores. Maybe a multi-party dungeon where different groups of players are given equally important tasks in the same area in a ED fight. Might be fun, yet might also take away the personal focus. Well, it should be alright if ANet does it right. Possibly even a WvW-like deal with large-scale mob-army conquest. Anything for epicness.
While it does makes sense that she is remembered as a hero, still greatest hero of humanity? Sounds to me like she worked on some propaganda while sitting in Ebonhawke. And even the most air-headed Ascalonian should have had heard of the human hero. That one guy, who stopped wars, killed evil gods, saved thousands if nor millions of lives. The problem is, the player never really got a title in GW1. Via a title the player can be addressed without revealing his/her gender (well atleast in english, in german it doesn’t work that way, but that is besides the point), as it is done in GW2.
I’m sure you know the issue of naming a player character. However, I’m curious. Where do you get that Gwen was the “greatest hero of humanity” because last I remember, it was greatest hero of Ascalon (and if she is called one of the greatest heroes of humanity, whether or not the greatest, it’s likely by Ascalonians and you should know by now that NPCs in GW2 are biased to hell and back).
And I think it would be possible for doing such in German – by giving the PC a title that would be neutral, rather than masculine or feminine. Mind you, I’m a fairly novice in German so I may be wrong. But even then, Germans give odd combinations for masculine and feminine nouns (take skirt for instance, in German it’s Der Rock – masculine; or mustache, which is feminine iirc (can’t recall what the word in German is). So even if they do give masculine or feminine case, it’s not absolute for whether the referred to object/person/place is masculine or feminine.
Ugh, her presence almost overshadows all those likeable heroes like Vekk, Ogden, Jora, Pyre (or Brandor as he is called in the german dub… the only given name change that was ever made /shrug).
Hardly. Gwen doesn’t have any statues – Jora has statues throughout Hoelbrak and elsewhere. Pyre also has at least one statue. Ogden is around in GW2, and is by far very prominent to norn storyline (even moreso for norn Priory). Vekk, you have a point there. But I think you’re overreacting on Gwen’s “prominence” in the lore.
Trahearne […] took some credit for things I did
Really? What did he do? He united the orders into the Pact? Nope. He killed Zhaitan? Nope. All Trahearne did was do the paperwork and make the decisions, and often gave you the choice of the role you wanted to play. I don’t think there’s a single thing he takes the credit for. The most you can get is NPCs saying he led the Pact to victory through Orr, which is partially true. While you’re the strongest fighter and without you certain aspects would have failed, Trahearne was the strategist who determined where to strike – you just chose how of some options, and did the striking. You wouldn’t have gone after the Eye of Zhaitan, Mouth of Zhaitan, or the reinforcement of undead without Trahearne giving the order to do so.
However every deed I did in GW1, is forgotten. Not a single kitten is given about it. It’s gone. Blown away. And replaced by Gwen-worship. What the heck?
What the heck indeed. Because your wrong. True, there’s little mention of the GW1 PCs, but it’s rather hard to denote such in the subsequent game. I mean, even with linked accounts… which character is chosen from your GW1 account?
Also, again, the GW1 PC isn’t replaced by Gwen in the least. No one is.
So please, stop your BS and the woe is me, because it just isn’t true. I can understand how you don’t like Gwen’s personality, especially in Eye of the North and (god forbid) WiK/HotN. However, Gwen and Trahearne doesn’t steal any credit or replace either the GW1 or GW2 PCs.
Based on your complaint the biggest point is Dougal and Riona calling “Gwen the Greatest Hero of Ascalon.” I would like to point out that both of these people were from Ebonhawke, completely trained and pretty much raised in the ways of that city. It would make a lot of sense in my mind that a city founded by this woman would almost worship her in the history that they reveal about her, thus making them see her that way. I do not think it’s about underestimating the GW1 character. Although I fully agree the complete lack of even mentioning the events of GW1 is a bit disturbing.
while I pretty much agree with Konig, there are some rather… unfortunate bits of dialogue that have Trahearne claiming credit for things the PC did (choosing the name of Fort Trinity is the least of them)
that said, Trahearne would sit much better with me if he ends up joining Destiny’s Edge and the lot of them lead the Pact from whatever post they are most effective. They have the resources (Pact), the experience in fighting dragons and most, if not all, of them hold positions of renown, respect and authority over their own cultures (to whatever extend such things are possible)
Technically, smekras, Trahearne never says he came up with the name. Only that’s the name he’s using for the base. This seems to be the main issue folks have with Trahearne outside his bipolarness and his mechanical voiceacting – he just words things in such a way that it seems like he’s taking credit, but in actuality, he isn’t.
I guess I catch onto these things more since I majored in English…
And I think it would be possible for doing such in German – by giving the PC a title that would be neutral, rather than masculine or feminine. Mind you, I’m a fairly novice in German so I may be wrong. But even then, Germans give odd combinations for masculine and feminine nouns (take skirt for instance, in German it’s Der Rock – masculine; or mustache, which is feminine iirc (can’t recall what the word in German is). So even if they do give masculine or feminine case, it’s not absolute for whether the referred to object/person/place is masculine or feminine.
It’s not impossible but it is harder. It’s only about the articles (der/die/das instead of the gender neutral “the”), in german you change titles, according to male and female, usually by hagning an “in” to the title, to show that the person is female. To conceal the gender, you must assume that an unkown person is male, until profen otherwise. Which is of course considered unpolite.^^
Also the word you are looking for is Schnurrbart, which is male (der Schnurrbart, which literally translates to “purring beard”). But objects have weird gender rules in general.
Hardly. Gwen doesn’t have any statues – Jora has statues throughout Hoelbrak and elsewhere. Pyre also has at least one statue. Ogden is around in GW2, and is by far very prominent to norn storyline (even moreso for norn Priory). Vekk, you have a point there. But I think you’re overreacting on Gwen’s “prominence” in the lore.
She is the most prominent of the EotN heroes if you count all her appareances. Odgen is second place, Jora third, Pyre fourth and well Vekk is pretty much never mentioned after EotN. Just remember how often we had to go into the HoM to listen to that awful Gwen/Kieran dialog, to progress the story. They later changed it I think, but when I played it, I had to stand there and listen. Well I could have gone afk, but you can never know if it doesn’t get interesting once.
Really? What did he do? He united the orders into the Pact? Nope. He killed Zhaitan? Nope. All Trahearne did was do the paperwork and make the decisions, and often gave you the choice of the role you wanted to play. I don’t think there’s a single thing he takes the credit for. The most you can get is NPCs saying he led the Pact to victory through Orr, which is partially true.
Smerkras already mentioned it. Also there is the whole, “They attacked you, but I think I am their target” thing. As I said, nothing major. He is a Gary-Stu, unhelpful and annoying (though atleast his german voice, while monotone, is not as bad as the english dub), but overall, there are worse characters than him. Namely, “Naggy McNeverShutUP” (=Gwen, if you haven’t guessed it)
What the heck indeed. Because your wrong. True, there’s little mention of the GW1 PCs, but it’s rather hard to denote such in the subsequent game. I mean, even with linked accounts… which character is chosen from your GW1 account?
Also, again, the GW1 PC isn’t replaced by Gwen in the least. No one is.
They way they wrote it, they made it hard. Give the PC a title and you can mention him, with out going into specific details about his gender, where he came from and what not.
It’s not that Gwen is outright stated to have done the things I did, it’s more like, everyone forgot what I did and instead they worship a glorified side-character. This is what angers me.
Let me give you an example. You find the ultimate cure for cancer, that works on all types of it, in any stage and has a 100% chance of success. You are celebrated in your time. Now a traveler from a future comes and offers to take you 100 years into the future. You accept, only to find out that no one gives a kitten about you anymore, instead they all worship and actor/singer/athlete that lived in your time, as the greatest hero ever. And all this person did was being in a very good movie/sang a great song/scored a winning point in an important game. How would you feel?
Of course you didn’t invent the cure to be loved, you did it to save lifes. But still, your legacy is gone. All that is left is the lifes you saved, but they didn’t even bother to remember your name. The sad thing is, that is how the world works at times, with celebs getting more attention than the real heroes of this world.
But maybe it’s because discredit is my soft spot, not only when it affects me, but anyone. As soon as I see that someone takes credit for other peoples work, that drives me nuts. So much that I can’t even enjoy movies where this is the major plot point.
Hmmmm, beside trahearne himself (to whom I don’t have much affection) I was wondering the other day. I have played soo many games but only GW2 has such a big discussion bout the more prominent NPC’s (besides maybe Lydia in skyrim, but you can always fus ro dah her off a mountain). So I was wodnering why that is. The most logical answer would be is that Arenanet is very bad at making likeable npc’s. Then I realised that it might be something else. The NPC’s from other games are neutral, non flavoured uninterested characters. They do what they have to do but thats it. Arenanet did on purpose made a world that feels alive. They put personal touch and flavour all over the game and it is what in my opinion makes the game so great. NPC’s like Rurik, Trahearne, Togo and Sieran have a personality with weaknesses, disadvantages, but also colour and flexibility. This is part of the personality Arenanet puts in the whole world, but also means there will be people that dislike them.
The best way to keep Trahearne is to relegate him to an Eisenhower-eque role (planning the strategy far away from the front lines). The best way to get rid of Trahearne is to have him assassinated by some doomsday cult of crazed people welcoming the dragons and, with them, the end of the world.
that said, Trahearne would sit much better with me if he ends up joining Destiny’s Edge and the lot of them lead the Pact from whatever post they are most effective. They have the resources (Pact), the experience in fighting dragons and most, if not all, of them hold positions of renown, respect and authority over their own cultures (to whatever extend such things are possible)
I cannot possibly think of a less interesting scenario. Destiny’s Edge bores me to death, and I hope…I PRAY…that band of Mary Sues dies at some point in the near future. As the writers are obviously very emotionally invested in these characters, I realize it will never happen. But I really hope it does.
The best way to keep Trahearne is to relegate him to an Eisenhower-eque role (planning the strategy far away from the front lines).
Funny thing… that’s what he did except three times.
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