Guild Wars 2

In the mission “Undead Detection” I came across a few risen trolls, now I would not mind this in most cases, however with the lack of lore around trolls I had been under the impression that they had used what is common troll lore of incineration was the only way to actually kill them, otherwise they will always regenerate themselves (otherwise if they are dismembered, a new troll will form from from the parts in addition to regenerating).

So if there are risen trolls, how exactly would they work and is there any additional information that I can find on trolls in this game?

They’re big, they smell bad and they have faster regenerative capabilities than humans do. That’s about it.

Tuomir.1830:

They’re big, they smell bad and they have faster regenerative capabilities than humans do. That’s about it.

I know about big, small bad, and fast regeneration. Also if you put burning on them they die much faster than normal things with burning on them (seems to cancel out healing and do 2-3 times damage when it is on them). So as i said before, I would really like to see the lore behind them, if its the common troll knowledge or something else entirely.

This would also sum up a few things like when you “Kill” them, do you actually kill them or are they just down but not out?.

Well, it was more of a show of how little information there is about them. Since GW1, they’ve been just enemies spread across the land, with no story attached. To answer your question, never has there been a reported case where a troll killed with care would have risen up again, unless we are talking about those corrupted by Zhaitan.

Aye in that personal storyline mission, they had been Zhaitan’s risen trolls, but i dont understand how he could raise them if when they are dead they should be nothing left to actually raise, save ash and bones.

I have never seen any information stating that the only ways to kill a troll is to burn them.

I’ve also never seen any information stating they’ll fully regenerate into a new troll if you dismember them.

Like Tuo said, they just regenerate slightly faster than other races. Beside that, nothing special has been stated about them to my knowledge.

(also, I’d like to point out regarding your sig the class is ranger, not hunter)

There is a charr ash legion personal story that gives a tiny tidbit about trolls. Sadly, I don’t recall what it was and it’s not up on wiki. Though iirc, it had something to do with how territorial they are (I think it was that they seem to hate anything that’s not themselves – including other trolls).

We do know, however, that trolls prefer living in caves (even those in mountains). Only corrupted (read: icebrood and risen trolls) are seen proactively outside caves and cave entrances or far from such (except the maguuma ones in GW1, I suppose).

There has never been lore – in GW1 or GW2 – about living trolls needing to be killed by fire. Nor have I ever seen anything about the regenerating into a new troll if a limb gets cut off. They do have natural regenerative capabilities – but so do skale.

I also have never experienced them being weak to fire – again, in either GW1 or GW2, mechanically or in lore.

They don’t use your standard rl troll lore… which that is also new to me, truth be told.

arcqe.6734:

I have never seen any information stating that the only ways to kill a troll is to burn them.

I’ve also never seen any information stating they’ll fully regenerate into a new troll if you dismember them.

Like Tuo said, they just regenerate slightly faster than other races. Beside that, nothing special has been stated about them to my knowledge.

That is common troll knowledge as in basically what R.A. Salvador defined for them (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Troll) This is why I am asking for lore behind them, if there is none (like right now) than its what I have to go by. Yes, the forgotten realms trolls are not the same trolls in this game, however it is the “common” lore for the species and how it works if there is none that exists currently. This is why I am asking for some source of info on this.

(also, I’d like to point out regarding your sig the class is ranger, not hunter)

I had not noticed this, ill change this now =), thanks!

Whilst there does seem to be an unofficial rule that DnD (Forgotten Realms or otherwise) gets to set the standard for fantasy creatures it doesn’t always apply.

Especially with things that originate in fairy tales and myths like trolls. There have probably been hundreds of variations over the years. Other than generally being bigger, stronger and uglier than humans I don’t think there’s any real rules on trolls.

For one thing Tolkien’s trolls could be turned to stone by sunlight and were implied to be otherwise extremely hard to kill, but they didn’t have to be burned specifically. And I’d say he gets to over-rule DnD by virtue of inventing the genre.

In GW1 trolls regenerated health (specifically by using the skill Troll Unguent), but they could be killed by any form of damage. If I remember correctly they also leave exploitable corpses that necromancers can turn into minions. GW2 seems to be consistent with that, and they have no obligation to be consistent with other franchises.

Once more this is why I am asking for some lore information on them, I can see how they seem to work myself in the game, however this is not always the case on how they are supposed to work in the games. If it is in the game and it is hostile you need to feel that you can kill it somehow, otherwise it would make people very upset.

This is however not what I am asking about, I am trying to find out how it lore-wise supposed to be, this is why I am posting in the lore sub-forums and not the general forums.

As far as I know there isn’t much lore regarding trolls. I don’t remember them ever being mentioned in any detail in any quests or anything and neither of the wikis have anything other than stats, locations and drops.

So in the absence of anything else I’m going off what we can see for ourselves in the game.

I just see whats in the game stretched so far already most of the time that it is fairly hard for me to call it something reliable to work with in order to find out some of the questions like this. For example 5 random people make the difference in a fight with an elder dragon… 5 random people… but basically to the point where the dead have to die and a very small force taking on an elder dragon, but they both still have to die for the game to continue on.

Kaona.9105:

That is common troll knowledge as in basically what R.A. Salvador defined for them (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Troll) This is why I am asking for lore behind them, if there is none (like right now) than its what I have to go by. Yes, the forgotten realms trolls are not the same trolls in this game, however it is the “common” lore for the species and how it works if there is none that exists currently. This is why I am asking for some source of info on this.

Never use another game’s lore to explain things in Guild Wars. GW’s lore is fairly different in just about everything.

Just because there isn’t (much) lore on something, doesn’t mean that another modern-but-not-original story’s lore will be the case. In fact, most of the time (if not all of the time), that’s not the case.

Kaona.9105:

For example 5 random people make the difference in a fight with an elder dragon… 5 random people… but basically to the point where the dead have to die and a very small force taking on an elder dragon, but they both still have to die for the game to continue on.

What game did you play? Because it was five individuals led by the Commander (second-in-command) of the fight, allied with Destiny’s Edge, who have personal experience in fighting Elder Dragons and their champions.

Oh, and an army of airships, one of which (the Glory of Tyria) being a super-airship with freaking laser beams capable of cutting Elder Dragons in half.

If you really want an outside source to define in-game trolls you’d probably be better off going back to the ancient Norse and Scandinavian legends where they first appeared.

Although according to Wikipedia that doesn’t really give you much to go on either – they were supernatural beings that lived in small isolated groups in mountains and forests away from humans and were typically unhelpful. Everything else varied (probably depending on what characteristics suited the story best).

Trolls seem to be stuck in the same loreless zone as Skelk, Ettin and Skale.

All of them being incredibly primitive (Skale and Skelk might not even be sentient) and considered bothersome.

Trolls are likely around the same level of sentience as Ettin, having primitive clothing and tattoos, and what appears to be a tribal society. They also appear to have some skill in primitive magic, as several variates use an AOE element attack. That’s more than what can be said of Skelk, who I personally would like to know more about.

A few of the Istan quests in Nightfall suggest that the skale are in fact sapient (enough to have leaders, religion, and form armies, anyway), but still pretty stupid, possibly even more so than grawl.

I’m not sure the troll AoE attack is actually intended to be magic – it could instead be a representation that they know their caves and know what to do to cause a rockfall in a particular location. Dredge had something similar in EOTN regardless of whether they were spellcasters or not.

draxynnic.3719:

A few of the Istan quests in Nightfall suggest that the skale are in fact sapient (enough to have leaders, religion, and form armies, anyway), but still pretty stupid, possibly even more so than grawl.

I’m not sure the troll AoE attack is actually intended to be magic – it could instead be a representation that they know their caves and know what to do to cause a rockfall in a particular location. Dredge had something similar in EOTN regardless of whether they were spellcasters or not.

Lets not forget that some things didn’t transfer over between games with coherency. If I recall, Skelk in GW1 where boney rat like creatures. In GW2 Skelk have become scavenging salamander “men” who live in borrows and posses shadowstep/stealth abilities. Skale have changed a bit in appearance, but still retain their “Aquatic reptilian humanoid” appearance so the change isn’t significant. Enemy placement wise, there doesn’t seem to be any indication that they’re even sentient, at least from what I’ve witnessed. They just seem to hang out in rivers and creeks, no different than the sunbathing drakes, just sitting around (Probably sunbathing as well).

As for trolls, I just find it strange that the ability to fire a burst of frozen air from their bodies counts as a natural ability.

Most skale in GW1 behave the same… unless something gets them to form an army, or somebody starts worshiping them and they don’t eat them immediately. It’s possible that the reason they tend to spend so much time just hanging around is because of a mix between being cold-blooded and thus inclined to lethargy, and as a rule not caring to do more than hunting food for survival.

Like I said, they’re still pretty dim, but they have shown signs of sapience. They’re probably on the boundary – not quite animals, but not really fully sapient either.

Snow trolls I haven’t had a lot of experience with, so I can’t really comment on their attacks. It is a common trope for trolls of a particular element to have some attack based on that element, but it’s probably more akin to a drake’s breath – a natural (albeit possibly magical) ability, not a sign of even a primitive understanding of magic.

The snow troll attack itself, the troll crouches down and frost and ice gathers around it. Then the creature extends itself upwards and the ice explodes through an AoE area.

Bard.7215:

Trolls seem to be stuck in the same loreless zone as Skelk, Ettin and Skale.

All of them being incredibly primitive (Skale and Skelk might not even be sentient) and considered bothersome.

Skale and skelk are amphibious creatures of the world – little different from your average wolf and whatnot. However, Skale are sentient to a degree, as in Istan in Nightfall, they recognized human cultists that worshipped the skale (yeah, crazy loonies), had a leader (“Skale Lord”) and even a god.

Skelk’s lore is that they originate from the depths of Tyria and were pushed out by Primordus – not much else on them. They’re just amphibious wildlife originally native from the depths. Though it seems, based on model, that they’re related to gravelings (or the gravelings are a kind of skelk) as they have the same models, same burrow models, and both come from the depths. This can kind of seem like there’s few destroyer activity in Ascalon, since they didn’t reach the surface in numbers yet.

There’s a bit of ettin lore scattered throughout – though only in select areas. I haven’t yet really looked into it though. Will sometime, and update the wiki pages for them.

draxynnic.3719:

I’m not sure the troll AoE attack is actually intended to be magic – it could instead be a representation that they know their caves and know what to do to cause a rockfall in a particular location.

You haven’t fought ice trolls yet, have you?

They do an actual PBAoE ice burst. Cave trolls do similar with an earth PBAoE – this isn’t the avalanche skill I’m talking about. Similarly, Jungle Trolls cause poison and disappear. I’d say they’re using magic, personally, but very primitive. Though I could see it being argued as “using one’s environment” or a natural ability – but it’s as of yet not indicated to be such.

Bard.7215:

If I recall, Skelk in GW1 where boney rat like creatures. In GW2 Skelk have become scavenging salamander “men” who live in borrows and posses shadowstep/stealth abilities.

They were always scavengers, I believe. Though in GW1 they did have a larger variety of model shapes. This was probably done to simplify things and make it realistic. I bet if we meet mandragors again, we’d get the same – or many other wildlife creatures.

Magic isn´t a mark of sentience or intelligence in this universe btw.

Examples: elementals, wind riders, raptors, oozes….kittenton of gw1 mobs though they have scaled it down a bit, mostly for many mobs not being here in the firstplace.

Thing about GW1 is that monsters were designed to use player skills. Human monks, for instance, in lore called upon the gods’ divine power – however, this clearly isn’t the case for charr or insect monks. So just because they use a skill doesn’t mean they’re actually using that specific skill – it could simply be the game’s means of representing a creature’s ability.

After all, I doubt there were skales and the like wielding scythes in Nightfall.

Elementals are unique as they are made from magic.

Oozes (in GW2) don’t use magic, and raptors never did (in either game). Wind Riders are also magically-adept creatures (that is to say, it seems that they’re attracted to magical places, based on their placements).

And I think you’re mistaking sentience over sapience – though this is nitpicking. Sentience merely means being aware of one’s surroundings, which even the so-called mindless elementals very much are.

@Konig: Look two posts above the one where you say I clearly haven’t fought ice trolls – I explain things there.

I’ve been pretty sure, and even more sure now with post-guardian-release interviews saying the guardian was powered by faith but that it didn’t matter what that faith was in, that monk magic never involved directly calling on the gods. The ability to wield it comes with faith, for humans this generally means faith in the gods (or the Unseen), and as a result humans could easily interpret it as being prayers to the gods, but the power comes from the Bloodstones just like mesmers, necromancers and elementalists, and nonhumans using that form of magic is no less lore-accurate than nonhumans that are members of those other professions.

Regarding riders – the line for the title that comes with killing riders is along the lines of “Attacking you was the last stupid mistake these smart creatures ever made”. This may simply be a reference for the sake of being a reference, but it could be an indication that riders are in fact intelligent, but choose not to communicate with non-riders.

I was responding as I was reading, as always, drax. :P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Thing about GW1 is that monsters were designed to use player skills. Human monks, for instance, in lore called upon the gods’ divine power – however, this clearly isn’t the case for charr or insect monks. So just because they use a skill doesn’t mean they’re actually using that specific skill – it could simply be the game’s means of representing a creature’s ability.

After all, I doubt there were skales and the like wielding scythes in Nightfall.

Elementals are unique as they are made from magic.

Oozes (in GW2) don’t use magic, and raptors never did (in either game). Wind Riders are also magically-adept creatures (that is to say, it seems that they’re attracted to magical places, based on their placements).

And I think you’re mistaking sentience over sapience – though this is nitpicking. Sentience merely means being aware of one’s surroundings, which even the so-called mindless elementals very much are.

Still, things like hydras, drakes, golems, scarabs, mantids, plant creatures, mandragors, jade see fish creatures… lot of the cases can be explained as creatures natural skills, but not everything, or atleast not without it being a wee bit far fetched. Lot of the abilities, are quite a bit too miraculous to attribute for natural abilities…though that can be atrributed to mechanics over riding lore.

Oozes definately use magic like abilities, vaporblade for example, but i guess it too can be seen as ooze throwing part of itself at player. Same for raptors, crested raptors spcificaly, chilling screech. Might be raptor blowing cold air, or semi magical ability.

And yes indeed i meant sentience as in self awarness, i´ll use the proper word from now on.

Well, i have to admit that moving to gw2 mobs seem to be losing their magic quite a lot, so in the end i may have to accept it. but as of now, i don´t want. It´s just so boring of a concpet, that magic is so limited as in every setting ever created.

One theory though is to attribute loss of magical mobs to elder dragons consuming magic. No real support for this anywhere as far as i know, but i like it more than the alternative.

Trolls definitely leave a body when they die in guild wars, however Zhaitan’s corruption doesn’t just affect the dead. Yes raising and mutilating corpses is his primary way of gaining new minions, but there are several personal story quests that imply that he can also corrupt the living.

I’d link specific Wiki pages here but since the game is new I think they’re trying to avoid being spoileriffic so here’s the abridged version:
- In the human personal story you discover that possession of an Orrian artefact can and will corrupt you into a servant of Zhaitan.
- It is implied by NPCs out in the world (the ones that talk to each other when you walk past) that the plague given off by Orrian corpses can make you sick, and turn you to Zhaitan without killing you.
- In the midway point of the personal story you find out that the breath of both Zhaitan and it’s more powerful generals can corrupt perfectly healthy living beings immediately.
- It is also implied by NPCs that living things are taken to Orr specifically to be corrupted. This is supported by part of the Sylvari personal story involving an enchanted mirror.

It is also possible for both Jormag and Kral-whatsisface- to corrupt the living. No matter how much bigger, stronger, smellier or healier (I know it’s not a word but eh) you are, if you come into contact with an Elder Dragon without some sort of backup you are going to be corrupted and become a problem for the player character.

EDIT to remove end of game spoiler.

@Strang: It seems to be a general thing that arctic predators have some special ability that chills the target. Polar bears, alpine wolves, snow leopards, white moas, and blue jellyfish all have F2 skills that chill the target, for instance (and the raptor screeches seem to generally be based off the moa screeches). It’s part of the reason why I’m not reading ice trolls having a cold-based ability as meaning they’re training in magic.

Essarious Quw.8946:

- In the human personal story you discover that possession of an Orrian artefact can and will corrupt you into a servant of Zhaitan.
- It is implied by NPCs out in the world (the ones that talk to each other when you walk past) that the plague given off by Orrian corpses can make you sick, and turn you to Zhaitan without killing you.
- In the midway point of the personal story you find out that the breath of both Zhaitan and it’s more powerful generals can corrupt perfectly healthy living beings immediately.
- It is also implied by NPCs that living things are taken to Orr specifically to be corrupted. This is supported by part of the Sylvari personal story involving an enchanted mirror.

It is also possible for both Jormag and Kral-whatsisface- to corrupt the living. No matter how much bigger, stronger, smellier or healier (I know it’s not a word but eh) you are, if you come into contact with an Elder Dragon without some sort of backup you are going to be corrupted and become a problem for the player character.

I always took the second and third example as a corruption that quickly kills and reanimates – after all, during the battles of Claw Island, the champion’s breath is just a very powerful poison to you, and even the one directly affected by it is only blinded and able to recover.

The artifact is unique, even to how Zhaitan corrupts as it seems to be more of a slow killing poison – that is to say, that it’s not related to how Zhaitan normally corrupts or how he directly corrupts, but rather is caused by an artifact that has Zhaitan’s energies in it corrupting its surroundings (much like the amulet that Howl has for charr characters’ storyline).

The last example – I don’t know what you’re referring to. Do you mean the ship in the personal story where you choose to sink it or go to the place in Orr where they make risen? If that’s the case, then the ship is carrying corpses, not living beings.

Each elder dragon corrupts differently, by the way. Jormag corrupts mentally and Kralkatorrik corrupts physically – Zhaitan seems to corrupt magically/spiritually (either or, or both – it’s hard to tell), since he is only really seen corrupting dead creatures and at that, has imprisoned spirits in his risen (though not all) and we know from Gokk was it? From an asura’s studies that Zhaitan corrupts by absorbing magical energies from creatures and things, corrupting the magic, then putting it back in – with how much magic put back in determining its level of intelligence and rank in the risen army (as I got this second-hand, I don’t know if this applies to all Elder Dragons, but given what we know of Jormag and Kralkatorrik, I don’t think so).

Nothing and no one ever claimed Jormag and Kralkatorrik didn’t corrupt living beings (in fact, we knew from the beginning they could).

I am trying to do spoilers but its not letting me XD Basically don’t read beyond this point if you want all of the sylvari story to be fresh to you. Okay seriously now I am going to say a thing. There is a mirror that pulls those who try to use it directly into Orr, it seems unlikely that such an item would be unique. And are you sure Jormag’s corruption isn’t physical? Turning beings into living ice seems pretty physical to me, as does the corruption of the Svanir infested territory in the shiverpeaks. Certainly Kralkatorrik’s initial zerg was all about physical corruption too but don’t forget that his former champion Glint was ALL about the mental corruption. I’m still not sure whether she was good or evil as she was more than willing to let us walk right into a trap with the lich. I went back and did the bonus for her lair after that on principle.

I don’t see what relevance the mirror has with this discussion – that mirror’s abilities are Orrian in nature, not related to Zhaitan (though his minions can control the mirror’s powers, most likely due to them being Orrian and retaining their knowledge) – the mirror doesn’t corrupt or anything, it’s merely a gateway of sorts.

Jormag corrupts mentally, but there are physical side-effects. It’d be best to read Edge of Destiny by what I mean by corrupting mentally vs. corrupting physically, but basically Kralkatorrik corrupts with his breath, directly altering them with physical contact, while Jormag and its minions corrupt through mental means – the ice being a sideeffect where new icebrood are only caked in ice and their bodies slowly turn to ice over time (whereas branded are instantly and completely turned into large creatures of crystal – there is no delay in their physical appearance). Zhaitan, on the other hand, only shows to corrupt corpses through exerting corrupted magic into them (a kind of radiation effect, by the looks of things).

And nothing about Glint says how she corrupted, actually. She could read minds, yes, but she didn’t corrupt beings through that (or at least, nothing even implies such) and besides, that’s not the same as what the Dragonspawn (and in turn, other champions of Jormag and Jormag himself) does. We never hear or see how she makes the Crystal Guardians and Crystal Spiders, or how she corrupted before she was given free will by the forgotten. (P.S., she’s good – the whole Flameseeker Prophecies, including allowing us to be fooled, was in order to kill off the mursaat – and the threat of the titans was worse than she anticipated, and she knew we’d kill the lich in the end irregardless, though we only could have done so thanks to the soul batteries and bloodstone, which we wouldn’t have had if Glint told us about him and thus we’d idiotically try to confront him in the Shiverpeaks where no such bloodstone or soul batteries are).