Guild Wars 2

Do we have any reason to trust Caithe as the Player? After all that have happened between knowing her past life, her stealing the egg, and the Sylvari turning on the pact fleet, I do not feel like we can legitimately forgive her.
I fear Anet will make us (the player) forgive her some cheesy way as in “we always knew she was good”

For Sylvari characters, definitely, Caithe interacts with you a lot in the personal story. For other races, it depends. A lot of the Destiny’s Edge interactions presume that you’ve done their dungeon story paths. It’s been roughly three years since I watched the dungeon story cinematics, but even then I don’t think Caithe has any particularly prominent interaction with the player.

At most I’d say that most of the trust represented is second-hand. Namely, you trust Caithe because she’s buddies with your mentor. At the end of the day though, I want my egg back, Caithe.

I guess this rings true, I myself never play Sylvari characters. So I didn’t think about it. But as you say, I mostly just want that egg back.

You do get a fair bit of interaction with her in TA, enough that we should be able to forgive her for her part in the centaur slaughter. As for forgiving her… I think it’s going to come down to what she’s trying to do with the egg. Caithe’s character, throughout the book and game, includes a lot of doing good things sneakily because she thinks the need is as obvious to others as it is to her, or because she simply doesn’t think they need to know. There are a couple in DE who don’t trust her because of it, but we haven’t had a reason to rue that behavior yet, aside from one surrendered Nightmare courtier for some sylvari. On the other hand, the stakes have never been this high either.

From what we know she could be simply trying to shoulder everything herself, probabily thinking to be more efficent that way.
Still wrong, but I feel like it’s not impossible to forgive someone you know (how much depends on the PC race) for trying to do something good in a selfish way.

Pretty much what Tapioca and Aaron said.

Sylvari characters have a good reason to trust her, as you get to know her well – as well if not more due to shared Wyld Hunt than the other races’ can trust their respective mentor – and you do get a good deal of interaction with her in TA (and, less so, Honor of the Waves and Aetherpath).

Caithe’s actions has largely been a case of ‘act before explaining’ but it’s always been with good intent – maybe not good outcome, however. So while it’s hard to trust her upfront actions, it’s easy to trust her intentions.

Even if you did trust her, you can’t anymore because what she did was moronic. She stole Glint’s egg knowing full well she ‘s susceptible to Mordremoth. I don’t think there’s any excuse for that.

Thz.7569:

Even if you did trust her, you can’t anymore because what she did was moronic. She stole Glint’s egg knowing full well she ‘s susceptible to Mordremoth. I don’t think there’s any excuse for that.

I think the Pale Tree speculates that Caithe thought the egg could help heal her. We don’t really know how badly the Pale Tree has been hurt (seems extreme but she’s probably not dying), but she’s still Caithe mommy. Also she probably assumed she’d be able to resist Mordy… also we don’t know if Mordy is really after the egg. Sure he keep showing up wherever the egg is but that might just be that they’re drawn by the magic of the egg, or simply because we keep running around in Mordrem fill areas.

Caithe’s pretty strong-willed so I doubt she’ll ever fall to Mordremoth truth be told. Not without some massive character breaking being caused first.

Besides, nothing says that she knows that sylvari can be controlled by mordremoth – especially when she takes the egg. Aside from Aerin and Scarlet (the former she might not have known about), no sylvari had been turned by Mordremoth yet.

And if she did know, then it would be best to keep it away from the mass of sylvari – such as near the Pale Tree, which is likely where the PC would take it given the PC was given the task of protecting the egg by the Pale Tree.

Besides that, given where Caithe took the egg – a hidden cave protected from mordrem by all appearances, and seemingly tied to the Exalted – it’s possible that the next time we see Caithe will be in the safety of the Exalted (whom I still suspect are more tied to the Forgotten, the real name of the race still unknown to us, rather than the mursaat that most think).

As a human warrior main, I feel the PC has more of a connection with Eir, Rytlock and Logan than Caithe. Zojja we don’t really interact with. But then, what you see with her is what you get.

After reading the books and playing the PS and LS2 through 3 times. I can say with out a doubt, that I do not trust her one bit. But as far as the PC is concerned, its frustrating playing find the egg with her, and she was defending her self and Fallon from what she perceived as an attack. So nothing to forgive there. But after the end of LS2 and what happened to the pact. Do I trust her now? I trust her as much as any other Syilvara. With caution, and be ready to kill them at a moments notice. Clearly my trust in other characters is a lot lower than others.

I’m still waiting for the Asura to screw us over.

Even my sylvari wouldn’t trust her now. Her actions have put us on a wild goose chase for nothing, and on top of that, she couldn’t be bothered to warn Trehearne at least so he’d be cautious and maybe not send the sylvari in to get taken over. And the only thing preventing her potential fall is her main character status still, and seeing as we’ve seen a future where she chooses Nightmare, it’s not too hard to imagine Mordremoth trying to corrupt her.

A lot of great replies in here.

On one hand her actions have never been with evil intent before, so why should they be now?
On the other, her actions seems illogical, she knew the player was meant to care for the egg, and she’s putting herself in really dangerous light.

I just hope Anet doesn’t cheese this great twist out.

As stated, a chunk of the time Caithe’s actions are “wtf are you doing?” when they are done, but looking back with more information it’s a “Oh, that’s why. Okay.”

Nilkemia.8507:

she couldn’t be bothered to warn Trehearne at least so he’d be cautious and maybe not send the sylvari in to get taken over. And the only thing preventing her potential fall is her main character status still, and seeing as we’ve seen a future where she chooses Nightmare, it’s not too hard to imagine Mordremoth trying to corrupt her.

A: She didn’t know that. Nothing implies she knew the sylvari would suddenly turn against everybody and join the dragon.
B: That future where she joins nightmare was only because of Faolin tempting her and destiny’s edge completely falling apart and never healing.

Yeah, Caithe fleeing twice without even bothering to give a proper explanation for her actions to my sylvari despite everything we’d been through together seemed way off to me. She probably has a good reason for what she’s doing and not letting Trahearne know the truth about the sylvari, but we won’t find out until later, sadly.

There are also two plot points that Anet may pursue in HoT. We’ve learned from devs that sylvari can misinterpret their Wyld Hunts, and Mordremoth can influence sylvari subtly via the Hunts through which he tries to bypass the sylvari’s mental protection. It wouldn’t surprise me if one or the other plays a part in Caithe’s sudden actions with the egg; perhaps she’s come to realize the full extent of her Wyld Hunt, and Mordremoth will try to trick her in some way later down the line.

Caithe fleeing the second time makes perfect sense to me.

The Shadow of the Dragon is thought to be invincible. We could only kill it thanks to divine fire. Why Mordremoth has such a powerful champion is unknown, though. And Caithe fled once the Shadow of the Dragon showed up to keep the egg out of mordrem hands.

What bothers me is that Season 2 ended with such a huge cliffhanger.

Yeah, I understand very well that she has the egg. But, what bothers me the most is how did Caithe and the Pale Tree know about the egg in the first place. Does the pale tree know everything that her children know? But, I may have a good idea of where she is taking the egg.

The Pale Tree knowing of the egg is likely related to how Ogden knew of the vision that the Pale Tree gave the PC and no one else. Ogden makes mention of a secret group – that doesn’t seem to be the Order of Whispers – that seems involved/interested in these events but in the background of things.

Why they remain in the background is just as questionable.

Kossage.9072:

Yeah, Caithe fleeing twice without even bothering to give a proper explanation for her actions to my sylvari despite everything we’d been through together seemed way off to me. She probably has a good reason for what she’s doing and not letting Trahearne know the truth about the sylvari, but we won’t find out until later, sadly.

Both times being to get the egg as far away from the mordrem as she can as quickly as possible.

Makes perfect sense really. It’s a good case of “I don’t have time to explain!” situation. Would you take time to explain to others why you are running away when you are holding an insanely valuable object and the bad guys are getting closer and closer? I wouldn’t want to risk the escape route being cut off.

As for letting Trahearne know… couple points one already touched on by others.

A: She may not have known that the weak willed sylvari would all mass betray the pact.
B: Maybe she didn’t want to reveal that bombshell directly before Trahearne went off to try to murder an elder dragon before it fully woke up?

I mean, that kind of revelation could possibly shatter Trahearne. Or make him start double-guessing himself or his tactics in this case. All “MAYBEs” extremely, but would you want to run that risk directly on the eve of a major assault? (Or the start of a campaign).

The player character and Laranthir take it rather well, but Laranthir is kinda in the middle of a battlefield and can’t dwell on that. Who knows how they’d take that news in a non-hostile environment with no crisis.

Well Kalavier, the first time she flees with the egg isn’t really a “life or death must leave NOOOW” situation. when she first swipes the egg there is currently NO danger to the PC the party or the egg since you just killed the mordrem troll that was in the area with the master of peace and the egg. She had plenty of time to say “oh hey commander i’m going to take the egg to a safe spot so you can focus on commander stuff” instead of just taking it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Pretty much what Tapioca and Aaron said.

Sylvari characters have a good reason to trust her, as you get to know her well – as well if not more due to shared Wyld Hunt than the other races’ can trust their respective mentor – and you do get a good deal of interaction with her in TA (and, less so, Honor of the Waves and Aetherpath).

Caithe’s actions has largely been a case of ‘act before explaining’ but it’s always been with good intent – maybe not good outcome, however. So while it’s hard to trust her upfront actions, it’s easy to trust her intentions.

My first character was a sylvari. Even though I have created all other races since then she would have to do something REALLY egregious (destroying the entire planet level of bad) for me to not think of her as a good person.

spartan.9421:

Well Kalavier, the first time she flees with the egg isn’t really a “life or death must leave NOOOW” situation. when she first swipes the egg there is currently NO danger to the PC the party or the egg since you just killed the mordrem troll that was in the area with the master of peace and the egg. She had plenty of time to say “oh hey commander i’m going to take the egg to a safe spot so you can focus on commander stuff” instead of just taking it.

The second time was directly before an attack, the first right after the mordrem beast had died.

Either way, the first time we were sitting into an underground maze filled with mordrem vines and creatures. Not the safest place in general. Also the high chance that keeping the egg there might have triggered another attack.

Besides, if she had said that, it would have raised questions and then we’d have people complaining about that.

The “immortal” Mordrem Lurcher was still around too, don’t forget.

Though to be honest, that cinematic has bugged me from the beginning. Not so much the Caithe taking the egg part, but the fact that the dialogue and animation do not line up.

To me, it feels like originally they were going to have that cinematic at the beginning of the boss fight, but for some reason moved it later and which made it not line up properly.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The “immortal” Mordrem Lurcher was still around too, don’t forget.

Though to be honest, that cinematic has bugged me from the beginning. Not so much the Caithe taking the egg part, but the fact that the dialogue and animation do not line up.

To me, it feels like originally they were going to have that cinematic at the beginning of the boss fight, but for some reason moved it later and which made it not line up properly.

Would’ve made sense too, she suddenly goes “No time to explain”, poofs, and THEN a powerful mordrem shows up.

Nilkemia.8507:

and seeing as we’ve seen a future where she chooses Nightmare, it’s not too hard to imagine Mordremoth trying to corrupt her.

Not necessarily. Although large parts of the vision shown to us by the Pale Tree did come true (mostly Trahearne leading the Pack and us charging the gates of Arah) we were given the vision by the Dream (or we went into the Dream?) and well we don’t know if the visions of the Dream are destined to occur. We know that Wyld Hunts come from the Dream as well and not all of them come true either (but the Wyld Hunt might be different all together).
Well as usually we don’t have enough information either way.

The entire Destiny’s Edge portion was a “this will happen if you don’t do the dungeon story modes”.

During development, one of the things ArenaNet said would be possible to do but never managed to implement for xyz reason – like having a ferocity personality resulting in NPCs cowering before you and allowing you to punch them – was changing the result of the final battle against Zhaitan in regards to who in DE shows up dependent upon which dungeon modes you do.

E.g., if you did none, no one from DE would show up, while if you did them all, all of DE would show up. It’d also be possible to have Logan not show up, or Eir not show up – or only them show up.

The Light in the Darkness was showing that “no one shows up” future – Logan and Rytlock still hate each other, Eir still blames herself and Zojja blames Eir still, and Caithe returns to Faolain and joins the Nightmare because her friends won’t fight the dragons (note: during this time, it was told that the Nightmare Court also fight the dragons but ‘in their own methods’).

Also during this time we were told that the order who choose would affect the strategy for how we fight the ED (Whispers focusing on putting them back to sleep believing them immortal, for example), we were told that we’d see Zhaitan’s corpse in Arah explorable, and that the story for Sorrow’s Embrace was that Logan was leading a Seraph expedition to free the dredge being enslaved with their moletariate being in cahoots with corrupt ministers.

Obviously, a lot has changed. But some elements of their “original intent” remained, just like how we still have dialogue options with personality icons, but no more do we have the militant, etc. options available to our viewing pleasure.

Dude, she’s a plant. Go home and ask the tomato on your counter for advice, then ask yourself should you trust it?

Still, she is cooler than Logan…

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Dude, she’s a plant. Go home and ask the tomato on your counter for advice, then ask yourself should you trust it?

Still, she is cooler than Logan…

I asked the tomatoes and they said Caithe was legit, my cat doest like Logan and my nordic aunt and pet fish are sad about the our old fish dying……..