Guild Wars 2

Where did Tyrians get the word ‘dragon’ from? In our world, the term is nigh universal and almost infinite. The earliest use of the word is ancient greek, but even the Chinese and Norse had equivalents—all of the words: drakon, draco, etc, point to a large serpent. Theoretically, the origin of the word “dragon” in our world comes from the Biblical story of Satan.

Tyrian Humans have no such history to rely on. Yet the word ‘dragon’ is also universally accepted by every race in Tyria. No races ask, “what’s a dragon?” Where did the word come from?

They have their own history. Dragons have been around in Tyria- even setting aside the Elder Dragons, there was Glint, once one of the oldest living beings in the world, and the saltspray and rockhide dragons of Cantha. The latter, very much different than the standard western dragon, might also raise the possibility of the term being applied to other sorts of reptiles, like drakes, which are widespread on the Tyrian continent. Even if the other races didn’t know of dragons themselves, the ‘common’ language they all speak might have just borrowed the term from the humans.

What’s a sky?
What’s a snake?
What’s a horse?

Being a fictional world their true etymology is ours.

Orimidu.9604:

Where did Tyrians get the word ‘dragon’ from? In our world, the term is nigh universal and almost infinite. The earliest use of the word is ancient greek, but even the Chinese and Norse had equivalents—all of the words: drakon, draco, etc, point to a large serpent. Theoretically, the origin of the word “dragon” in our world comes from the Biblical story of Satan.

Tyrian Humans have no such history to rely on. Yet the word ‘dragon’ is also universally accepted by every race in Tyria. No races ask, “what’s a dragon?” Where did the word come from?

The origin of the word “Dragon” doesn’t come from the Biblical story of Satan.
Satan is Hebrew for Adversary.
The being in the Genesis story is that of a serpent. Of course the narrative seems to point to said serpent being able to speak, and with its being cursed, was forced to crawl on its belly. Which would imply that said creature was capable of speech, as well as had leg/arms as well, which of course is indicative of what is known of dragons. But the term itself is never used.
The few times the word “Dragon” is used is in Isaiah: In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that [is] in the sea. (Isaiah 27:1) and Revelation.

The term dragon itself (at least in english) actually comes from the french, and in turn from latin and greek.
“The word dragon entered the English language in the early 13th century from Old French dragon, which in turn comes from Latin draconem (nominative draco) meaning “huge serpent, dragon,” from the Greek word ??????, drakon (genitive drakontos, ?????????) “serpent, giant seafish”. The Greek and Latin term referred to any great serpent, not necessarily mythological, and this usage was also current in English up to the 18th century." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon)

However, going back to Tyrians and language. Humans are not native to Tryia. From what I understand is that they were brought to Tyria from somewhere else. So it is very possible that the earliest humans on Tyria brought their language with them, and in time the language evolved and become more distince with each culture. (i.e. Krytan, Orrian, Ascalonian.) However, such ideas and certain terms would have remained. Much like Latin and Greek. They have influences and certain words in many languages that largely remains unchanged. (i.e. Video, Audio, etc.)

Although I would say don’t over think it.

Coming from Anet, Zhaitan, the elder dragon, is a name based on arabic that referred to Satan.

Avariz.8241:

Coming from Anet, Zhaitan, the elder dragon, is a name based on arabic that referred to Satan.

Zhaitan is based on shaitan, meaning “astray” or “distant” in Arabic.
Satan means “adversary” in Hebrew.

Either way, both of those names/titles don’t have anything to do with dragons or serpents or anything.

Theoretically, the origin of the word “dragon” in our world comes from the Biblical story of Satan.

While pdavis made an excellent case, I’ll add something to this: the oldest story that mentions a “dragon” or some sort of serpent as a force of evil/corruption in the world is the Epic of Gilgamesh where a serpent stole his immortality and it is, as of now, some 5000 years old. The serpent in the Garden of Eden however was (as far as I know), in the text that Hebrew tradition contributes to Moses who wrote Genesis, and that was almost one thousand years after Gilgamesh.
Now, the word itself “shaitan” (which became Satan) means Adversary, but in Hebrew tradition, the Satan (yes, it’s a title) was an office appointed by God to test faith. When Job, who had so much, lost everything, it was Satan who tested him: if Job failed in his faith, then it was faith based on prosperity, not true faith. The title itself has nothing to do with serpents (arguably the seraph were more reptilian).

Mikhail.4961:

The serpent in the Garden of Eden however was (as far as I know), in the text that Hebrew tradition contributes to Moses who wrote Genesis, and that was almost one thousand years after Gilgamesh.

A bit off topic. But concerning Moses and the Writing of Genesis.

While Hebrew/Jewish tradition does hold that Moses wrote Genesis long long long after the events themselves, there are some who believe that while Moses was on Mt. Sinai communing with God, and recieving the Ten Commandments is when he recieved that information. During that time Moses asked to see Gods face. God told him that he couldn’t see His face, or he’d die. So God showed him His back instead. It was when Moses saw the back of God, he was actually looking backwards in time, and was able to witness those events himself.

Of course it’s just a theory, but interesting nonetheless. However, the Epic of Gilgemesh was certainly written a long time before the book of Genesis, and in the order of written works, it’s usually the earliest that takes precedent. (At least in historical matters)

pdavis.8031:

Mikhail.4961:

The serpent in the Garden of Eden however was (as far as I know), in the text that Hebrew tradition contributes to Moses who wrote Genesis, and that was almost one thousand years after Gilgamesh.

A bit off topic. But concerning Moses and the Writing of Genesis.

While Hebrew/Jewish tradition does hold that Moses wrote Genesis long long long after the events themselves, there are some who believe that while Moses was on Mt. Sinai communing with God, and recieving the Ten Commandments is when he recieved that information. During that time Moses asked to see Gods face. God told him that he couldn’t see His face, or he’d die. So God showed him His back instead. It was when Moses saw the back of God, he was actually looking backwards in time, and was able to witness those events himself.

Of course it’s just a theory, but interesting nonetheless. However, the Epic of Gilgemesh was certainly written a long time before the book of Genesis, and in the order of written works, it’s usually the earliest that takes precedent. (At least in historical matters)

Oh wow, that’s interesting! I’ve never heard of or seen the “God’s back” story beyond the one verse about it in Exodus. It doesn’t appear to exist in the modern Old Testament versions. What’s the source for that, if any?

Orimidu.9604:

pdavis.8031:

Mikhail.4961:

The serpent in the Garden of Eden however was (as far as I know), in the text that Hebrew tradition contributes to Moses who wrote Genesis, and that was almost one thousand years after Gilgamesh.

A bit off topic. But concerning Moses and the Writing of Genesis.

While Hebrew/Jewish tradition does hold that Moses wrote Genesis long long long after the events themselves, there are some who believe that while Moses was on Mt. Sinai communing with God, and recieving the Ten Commandments is when he recieved that information. During that time Moses asked to see Gods face. God told him that he couldn’t see His face, or he’d die. So God showed him His back instead. It was when Moses saw the back of God, he was actually looking backwards in time, and was able to witness those events himself.

Of course it’s just a theory, but interesting nonetheless. However, the Epic of Gilgemesh was certainly written a long time before the book of Genesis, and in the order of written works, it’s usually the earliest that takes precedent. (At least in historical matters)

Oh wow, that’s interesting! I’ve never heard of or seen the “God’s back” story beyond the one verse about it in Exodus. It doesn’t appear to exist in the modern Old Testament versions. What’s the source for that, if any?

The part about seeing God’s back is in Exodus 33:21-23
“21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”” (NIV)

As far as the rest, it’s just a theory, and not a very popular one. I can’t remember where I read it, it was a long time ago. But even so the idea itself actually makes sense. But enough Bible study, as much as I like the topic, it’s better left to somewhere else and not the GW forums :P

I can’t see the sense in trying to figure out Tyrian etymology because the game isn’t presented in New Krytan. The NPC’s aren’t speaking in English (or German or Spanish or whatever language you’re using to play). It’s just a translation, the same way movies will present conversations in the native viewer’s language even if it’s obvious the characters would not be speaking that language. E.g., WWII Germans manning a submarine. Rather than subtitles, we hear English, albeit sometimes given a German accent for no good reason other than to avoid the dissonance of colloquial American English in the scene.

Thus whatever the Tyrians are calling the Dragons, I don’t assume for a moment the English word “dragon” is the set of syllables they’re using.

Orimidu.9604:

Where did Tyrians get the word ‘dragon’ from? In our world, the term is nigh universal and almost infinite. The earliest use of the word is ancient greek, but even the Chinese and Norse had equivalents—all of the words: drakon, draco, etc, point to a large serpent. Theoretically, the origin of the word “dragon” in our world comes from the Biblical story of Satan.

Tyrian Humans have no such history to rely on. Yet the word ‘dragon’ is also universally accepted by every race in Tyria. No races ask, “what’s a dragon?” Where did the word come from?

In the old testament the serpent is the snake that tempted Eve. The four legged snake is not exactly a dragon. The closest dragon is the whale that swallowed Jona. So there is no dragon in the fullest sense of the word in the old testament.

In the new testament the clear cut closest reference to a possible dragon is the number of the beast and the 7 headed dragon in the apocalypse. The 7 headed dragon of the water is the closest imagery to Satan as referenced by Anet with Zhaitan.

The ancient greeks of cause had typhon. The writer of the apocalypse most likely fall back on his own earlier ancient tradition before the writing of the apocalypse to filled out the details of the apocalypse.

In conclusion Satan as manifested as the beast and the 7 headed dragon of the waters in the apocalypse on which Zhaitan is based is fully and mostly typhon of the ancient greek tradition as opposed to a hebrew tradition. This is because there is no dragon in the old testament.

Avariz.8241:

In conclusion Satan as manifested as the beast and the 7 headed dragon of the waters in the apocalypse on which Zhaitan is based is fully and mostly typhon of the ancient greek tradition as opposed to a hebrew tradition. This is because there is no dragon in the old testament.

Just want to throw this out there:

“Instead of a human head, a hundred dragon heads erupted from his neck and shoulders … His bottom half consisted of gigantic viper coils that could reach the top of his head when stretched out.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon

Pretty much describes Zhaitan.